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artimus261
2017-04-19, 08:59 AM
I'm currently working on a class that is loosely based off of the Witcher profession from the game. They so far have a very solid chassis, a good array of abilities, partial casting as a ranger or paladin with a custom list, and a small selection of bonus feats(none of which are too impactful but at each point they have a choice between 2 to give them some tools to shape the class/character the way they please)

my big question here is would it be overpowered for a class with casting like that to be able to cast without provoking? they have a nice variety of spells, ranging from mild offense, CC effects, a few interaction spells like suggestion, and protective spells. I can't post the list just yet as I'm still going through the spell compendium and other books to give them the list

and almost forgot, they prepare each day but also have an ability to, a few times per day, swap a spell they have prepared for another spell of the same level, though the highest spell level they can do this with cannot exceed their intelligence modifier(so they'd need an 18 Int to swap level 4 spells for themselves)

Westhart
2017-04-19, 11:00 AM
I would say that depends on abilities honestly, but you could work in something like this:


Experienced Caster (Replace Name with what you want)

The witcher has much experience in dealing with monsters and other heinous things, learning how to make his spells not obvious and stop them from attacking him. At [level] they can cast 1st level spells without provoking an attack of Opportunity, at [level] they may do so with 2nd level spells, 3rd at [level] then at [level] they may cast 4th level spells.

Something like that, hope it helps :smallbiggrin:

artimus261
2017-04-19, 11:13 AM
that definitely could be useful. they already don't get their spells til 4th but maybe the level before each new spell level the current one becomes free to cast, so like at 7th they can use 1st level spells without provoking, at 10th they can use 2nd, at 13th they can begin using 3rd, and finally maybe at 16th they can begin using 4th. is a little cruel but they are getting quite a bit. d8 HD, good bab, good fort/ref, light armor and no shields, they get a small but specific set of weapon profs(including the repeating/hand crossbows and the net), they have a fairly decent skill list(though it's not quite as broad as a ranger or rogues but has mixes certain ones from both), they're getting dark knowledge from the archivist, they are getting favored enemy(though as they level they only choose new creatures to consider favored enemies, they don't get the +2 improvements like a ranger), giving them an ability that allows them to ignore the natural armor of specified creature types a few times per day(up to 5/day at 19th), and immunity to fear and charms. i'll get it a little more fixed up and post it soon, it's rly looking pretty decent, just needs the full spell list and maybe some more bells and whistles

Westhart
2017-04-19, 11:18 AM
:smalleek:

Haha, I was thinking of a PrC, although it does sound good, will look at it when it is finished

artimus261
2017-04-19, 11:19 AM
anyone who's interested in this it's gonna be labeled as The Hunter 3.5, should be done soon <3 think it's gonna be pretty nice as a melee-er and mild party supporter, always nice having a hunter around who can tell the group where to hit something and what to watch out for

Westhart
2017-04-19, 11:22 AM
alright :smallwink:
Will look at it when done, working on something for a campaign I made the mistake of agreeing to run this summer...

artimus261
2017-04-19, 11:28 AM
lol oh no, story of my life xD wish you luck, if you have anything you want help with, without sounding presumptuous, just pm me :)

Westhart
2017-04-19, 11:29 AM
Probably post it tomorrow, but feel free to look at any of my other homebrew :smalltongue: :smallwink:

artimus261
2017-04-20, 06:59 PM
Uuuuuuugh!!! Was almost done but then remembered that I wanted to give the custom oils(for weapons), bombs, and potions they make xU fuuuuuuuuuu- that's a lot of stuff to add on

Westhart
2017-04-20, 07:53 PM
Uuuuuuugh!!! Was almost done but then remembered that I wanted to give the custom oils(for weapons), bombs, and potions they make xU fuuuuuuuuuu- that's a lot of stuff to add on

Well, if you give me a rough idea I can start some and post tomorrow if you want the help
EDIT: (Never played the game :smallwink:)
EDITEDIT: Found some on the wiki and will work off those, post what I do tomorrow

artimus261
2017-04-20, 08:16 PM
I'd definitely appreciate it but honestly i'm not even going off of the game entirely. Plus id end up feeling a little obligated to include some so don't sweat it. In the end this is a lot more DND oriented and it won't be that hard ;) gonna end up having around 15 oils, 3 grenades and like 5 potions <3

Westhart
2017-04-20, 08:20 PM
I'd definitely appreciate it but honestly i'm not even going off of the game entirely. Plus id end up feeling a little obligated to include some so don't sweat it. In the end this is a lot more DND oriented and it won't be that hard ;) gonna end up having around 15 oils, 3 grenades and like 5 potions <3

Well, if you have any you would particularly like/already have/etc just tell me now, gotta go work on something I was gonna post to day :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I just gotta make the table, so I have some time :smallsmile: And besides, I think I have some old 'smoke grenades' that use obscuring mist incendiary that uses fireball, and a few others

Flash Bang
Price: 6000 gp
Caster level: 15
This item causes a globe of searing radiance to explode silently from a point you select. All creatures in the globe are blinded and take 6d6 points of damage. A creature to which sunlight is harmful or unnatural takes double damage. A successful Reflex save (22) negates the blindness and reduces the damage by half. An undead creature caught within the globe takes 15d6 points of damage or half damage if a Reflex save is successful. In addition, the burst results in the destruction of any undead creature specifically harmed by bright light (such as a vampire) if it fail its save. The ultraviolet light deals damage to fungi, mold, oozes, and slimes just as if they were undead creatures.
Prereqs: Sunburst
Incendiary Grenade
Price: 750 gp
Caster Level: 5th
Aura: evocation
This item deals 5d6 fire damage to everyone within 20’ of where it lands (reflex DC 14 for ½). Special: A character may throw as many of these as she has full attacks (Of course she would have to have quick draw to take out more then one at a time…)
Prereqs: fireball
Superior Incendiary Grenade
Price: 1500 gp
Caster Level: 10th
Aura: evocation
This item deals 10d6 fire damage to everyone within 20’ of where it lands (reflex DC 14 for ½). Special: A character may throw as many of these as she has full attacks (Of course she would have to have quick draw to take out more then one at a time…)
Prereqs: fireball
Fog grenade
Price: 50 gp
Caster Level: 1st
Aura: conjuration
This item creates fog in a cylinder 20’ high with a 20’ radius where it lands, and the fog lasts for one minute. Otherwise this works as the obscuring mist spell. Special: A character may throw as many of these as she has full attacks (Of course she would have to have quick draw to take out more then one at a time…)
Prereqs: obscuring mist
Crushing Darkness
Price: 1312.5 gp
Caster level: 7th
This item causes shadowy illumination in a 20’ radius of where it lands, and anyone entering the area must suceed on a will save (14) or take a –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls. The penalty lasts 7 minutes, while the darkness lasts 70 minutes.
Prereqs: darkness, crushing despair
Extraordinary incendiary
Price: 7000
Caster Level: 20th
This bomb is rarely used, due to the massive fire damage it causes and the extensive area that it spreads.The area in a 200’ radius from where it lands is cloaked in fire, dealing 20d6 fire damage. Reflex Save (DC: 20).
Prereqs: Firestorm
Confusion Mist
Price: 3262.5 gp
Caster level: 9th
Where the item lands, a thin mist spreads, in a 20ft radius, 20 ft high. Anyone in this fog take a -10 competence penalty to will saves and wisdom checks unless they succeed on a will save (DC: 17). In addition the mist makes anyone inside confused as the spell. (WIll negates; DC: 16)
Prereqs: Mind fog, confusion.
Entangling tentacles:
price: 1437.5 gp
Caster level: 7th (lowered for entangle effect)
This creates an entangle effect as the spell and an evard's black tentacles effect within 20' of where it lands. The entangle effect lasts for 1 minute, while the tentacles last for 7 rounds.
Got some more somewhere...


Adrenaline: The witcher gains a +4 bonus to initiative and may take *one* additional swift/immediate action a round. This lasts for 1 minute.
Distilled adrenaline: The witcher gains a +6 bonus to initiative and may take *one* additional swift/immediate action a round. In addition they may make an extra attack with a full attack.
Poison Blood: A witcher drinks this before going into combat against vampires and other creatures that bite or drink blood. When a creature bites him it takes poison damage. (DC to negate equals 15+Con modifier of the witcher, 2d6 Str/2d6 Str). Unlike most poisons this overcomes the immunities of monsters to poison.
Acid Blood: Some witchers prefer this to poison blood, anyone biting the witcher takes 2d6 acid damage.
elixir of seeing: Witchers use this to find foes, it grants them see invisibility for X rounds

Morphic tide
2017-04-21, 05:29 PM
Uuuuuuugh!!! Was almost done but then remembered that I wanted to give the custom oils(for weapons), bombs, and potions they make xU fuuuuuuuuuu- that's a lot of stuff to add on

For Oils, it looks like Bane effects and extra damage are the main thing. Potions can be largely-generic stuff like boosting rolls tied to particular ability scores and healing. Bombs... seem like you can just do basic damage and debuff stuff with them. Maybe load them with poisons?

artimus261
2017-04-21, 06:55 PM
For Oils, it looks like Bane effects and extra damage are the main thing. Potions can be largely-generic stuff like boosting rolls tied to particular ability scores and healing. Bombs... seem like you can just do basic damage and debuff stuff with them. Maybe load them with poisons?

Lol just summed up most of the things I have xP a lot of the oils also allow them to inflict some statuses to things that are normally immune or deal ability damage to things that are normally immune (like an oil that lets them deal wisdom damage to constructs as the oil tears away at the magic that animates them)

EDIT: (and just for anyone that doesn't quite click with, like 'why would you want to do wis damage to a golem?' once wisdom is dropped to 0 they become inert more or less and constructs tend to have low Wisdom scores, like all of the golems in MMI only have 11) each strike with the crumble oil inflicts 4 points of acid damage to a construct(or object for that matter) but also forces them to make an actual DC 15 Fort save or lose 1d4 points of Wisdom. just an example of ONE of the oils out of kind of a lot. and as a huge heads up to people bane oil will be a thing but since it actually stacks with the enchantments on a weapon the bane oil has to be very specific, example trollbane, which would work on ALL trolls but no other giants, while giantbane would work on ACTUAL giants like storm giants and the like but none other that shared the giant type. it's to prevent them from being a little too good. already a freakin giantbane shortsword would hit as a +2 weapon with an extra 2d6 on the damage, throw on a trollbane oil against trolls that things swinging as a +4 weapon with +4d6 on damage against trolls... thats 5d6+4+Str for up to about a minute and a half. then throw on the oil that eliminates fast healing and regen for a huge time on an off-hand weapon that hunter is taking them down... that's not even going into the fact that they're getting burning hands as a level 1 spell and blast of flame(Spell Compendium) as a 4th level spell... all in all this class is going to be accurate and expansive, capable of dealing heavy damage to targets as long as they have time to prep for it or just prior knowledge. sorry for long post xP

Westhart
2017-04-22, 06:00 PM
Hmmm for the spellcasting do they cast arcane or divine spells? If they cast divine (and you allow archivist) look out because they can make a scroll and the archivist can get them at a lower level then normal archivist can pick them up eventually...

artimus261
2017-04-22, 07:12 PM
Wanted to give one of the grenades as an example. Though it won't be in pretty text yet.

Nox: a 15ft x 15ft cloud of smoke (DC 15 Fort initial and 1 minute later). Each failed save inflicts 1 point of Con damage. A creature that suffers even 1 point of this damage has its fast healing eliminated until it is restored. Additionally a creature caught in the area or within scent range of the area cannot use it's scent ability for the next 5 minutes.

Clearly the main function of this bomb is to eliminate a creatures fast healing for up to a whole day. Throw in a potential to drop Con by a modifier and taking it a creatures ability to detect you by scent I think this is a good opening bomb for an ambush. The DCs can be improved by better craft checks btw.

Edit: forgot to mention that the bomb also grants concealment for things inside against things outside and the other way around

artimus261
2017-04-22, 09:33 PM
also other heads up to any who cares their potions are still going to have a harsh effect on the drinker, the concoction straining their body

basically anyone who drinks a hunter potion must succeed on a DC 25 Fort save or suffer some ill effect, most likely Con damage. however a hunter, due to his constant exposure to these potions from a young age, gains an inherent +6 bonus on these Fort saves and suffers only 1/2 of the ill effect on a failed save

make's them more exclusive to the class while still being APPLICABLE to others, just not the wisest decision, a 10 Con caster SHOULD NOT DRINK THESE xP

artimus261
2017-04-23, 10:10 AM
also here's a potion teaser:

Vitalus: The subject who drinks the hunter's vitalus potion finds himself strengthened considerably and his wounds close swiftly. The vitalus potion bestows a +4 bonus to the drinker's Strength and bestows fast healing 1. This potion lasts for 5 minutes.

So while fast healing 1 is not altogether a huge deal during combat it does help take the edge off of some attacks and with +4 Str is definitely helpful. And, in the end, the potion heals 50hp on the dot with the fast healing so it's not unhelpful as an alternative to a cleric's cure spells or the like, though it's mainly for the hunter himself of course.

artimus261
2017-04-23, 08:52 PM
Here's the big block of descriptive text for the potions, oils, and bombs. I think they're all fairly well done but want to see what people think. The way it's built it saves the hunter from having to ever use skill points to increase his ability to make these items, though it is constrained by his level. It also makes them less appealing to other classes to make, the poor things having to actually spend skill points to learn the recipes and methods of their creation. Oils and grenades are arguably accessible, the things just being difficult to make. Potions however are quite powerful, when considering that a fighter could potentially make them without any access to magic, and so i took the Witcher's concept of their potions being toxic and made them quite deadly for those without hunter levels, anyway, here it is and if anyone ventures a read i'd love to hear what ya'll think. this class is turning into quite the labor of love for me, having to balance a short but precise spell list, a custom craft list, and dark knowledge all together with a class that still gets 2 good saves, 6+Int skills, good bab and a d8 HD... it's rough, but think they'll be a powerful and balanced force once it's all done and tweaked just right <3

Hunter’s Tools: Beginning at 6th level the hunter has learned enough about the anatomies of creatures that he has been able to develop particular alchemical items that assist him in hunting his marks. To produce these items the Hunter makes a special Craft check that follows all the normal rules of the Craft skill. However the bonus he gains is derived from his level as opposed to a skill. A hunter’s alchemy check is 1d20 + the hunter’s class level + the hunter’s Intelligence modifier. However this check can gain synergy benefits. A hunter who has 5 ranks in Craft(alchemy) gains a +2 bonus on this check to make potions and receives an additional +2 bonus on his Fortitude saves against them. A hunter who has 5 ranks in Craft(poisonmaking) also gains a +2 bonus on this check to make oils and the DCs of the oils gain a +2 bonus. A hunter who has 5 ranks in Craft(trapmaking) gains a +2 bonus on this check to make bombs and the DCs of the bombs gain a +2 bonus. The hunter, while not forbidden from teaching others the methods of their potions, tend to guard the secrets to their potions and oils fiercely. However a hunter can attempt to show others how to make such items. A character with no hunter levels attempting to make these items must use one of three Craft skills: Craft(alchemy) to make potions, Craft(poisonmaking) to make oils, and Craft(trapmaking) to make bombs. However the craft DCs for such characters are 5 points higher and the character must spend a skill point to learn the formula for a single item of their choice from this list.
Hunter Oils: The oils the hunter can make are all specifically designed for various types of creatures he hunts. The hunter can carry any number of these oils in vials but after application they only remain effective for 1 minute. Applying an oil to a weapon is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. The effects of oils applied to a weapon stack with any enchantment the weapon may have, though a hunter cannot apply a poison and an oil to the same weapon, the two compounds ruining each other entirely. By beating the Craft DC by 5 or more when making an oil it lasts for an additional 5 rounds after being applied to a weapon and the DC for effects the oil has gains a +2 bonus. These oils are magical in nature and are detected by effects that detect magic. They are also rendered useless after being subject to an antimagic area for any portion of time. However their effects are not subject to spell resistance or spell immunity, functioning similarly to poisons that may or may not provide saving throws. However they are also not prevented by poison immunity and creatures with bonuses against poisons do not apply them to their Fortitude saves against the hunter’s oils.
Hunter’s Potions: The tradition of the hunters has always been to advance their abilities beyond the normal limits. To that end they have developed potions over the years to assist them in various ways. These potions are powerful tools and an achieve amazing effects. However these potions also come at a potential cost. The potions themselves strain the body of those who imbibe them and can even prove lethal to the frail. Anyone who drinks a hunter’s potion must succeed on a DC 25 Fortitude save or take 3d6 points of Constitution damage. Thankfully the hunter has been exposed to these potions so much through his training that he has developed a remarkable resistance to the negative effects of them. A hunter receives an inherent +6 bonus on his Fortitude saves made against hunter potions and even on a failed save takes only one half of the damage(rounded down) he would normally take to his Constitution.
Hunter’s Bombs: The primary tool of the hunter’s lethal ambushes are their bombs. These tools allow them to inflict wounds to multiple foes without announcing their presence or revealing their location, the perfect tool for the start of a hunt. Bombs all have different effects but the DCs for them are shared. A DC for a hunter’s bomb, whether it’s for a Fortitude save against a poisonous gas or a Reflex save against the shrapnel of an explosion, is always DC 10 + the hunter’s Intelligence modifier. However the DC is increased by 1 for every 5 points the hunter’s Craft check exceeds the bomb’s Craft DC.

Westhart
2017-04-24, 07:21 AM
For Crafting
Do others need to just put an additional rank in the skill governing the tem or do they need 1 rank for each item they want to be bale to craft that does not add to the actual skill?
Hunter Oils
Maybe let them be able to survive antimagic for 1/4 of the craft check made for them. Especially playing in settings with dead magic zones. After all one casting of antimagic zone/field takes out all of them.
For magic possibly state what school they detect as...
Consider allowing them to be used as poison for feats then they can get master of poisons and apply them as a swift action.
Hunter's Potions
That is a lot of damage on a failed save, might just become a new poison :smalltongue:
Bombs
These look good, I still like smoke grenades though :smalltongue:

artimus261
2017-04-24, 08:39 AM
For Crafting
Do others need to just put an additional rank in the skill governing the tem or do they need 1 rank for each item they want to be bale to craft that does not add to the actual skill?
Hunter Oils
Maybe let them be able to survive antimagic for 1/4 of the craft check made for them. Especially playing in settings with dead magic zones. After all one casting of antimagic zone/field takes out all of them.
For magic possibly state what school they detect as...
Consider allowing them to be used as poison for feats then they can get master of poisons and apply them as a swift action.
Hunter's Potions
That is a lot of damage on a failed save, might just become a new poison :smalltongue:
Bombs
These look good, I still like smoke grenades though :smalltongue:

They need to spend a skill point to learn the actual formula itself, aside from the craft ranks needed to do it, not free by any means but giving a fighter the ability to even make the baneoil would be powerful so i feel it's fair, heck it's cheaper than a skill trick :P

For potions I'm probably going to include a mention that to gain the effects one must drink the entire flask of it and the smell and taste are powerful, i.e. slipping a touch into a drink wouldn't do anything and one sip of a glass of it would result in a 'what the hell is this you brought me?' sure a bluff check could work past that part but it won't be an easily applicable poison, cuz it's true it could be used as such, however i need to mention also that even failing the save the drinker still gets the benefit of the potion... they just might also be... well, dead.

don't worry, you're getting your smoke grenade :) they have the poison variant i listed earlier as an example but they'll have a regular one as well for creatures that are immune to poisons but still need to be distracted/blinded

i'll probably just take away the antimagic thing, antimagic is powerful enough as is and it would honestly be nice if the hunter could still perform some of his things inside of an antimagic area

EDIT: Also might lift the magical detection of them as well and definitely like the idea of them qualifying as poisons for feats, afterall oils gain the +2 synergy bonus from craft(poisonmaking), however they'd still need the ranks for craft(poisonmaking) for the feats involved, but like the idea of letting them apply as a swift with a feat, ugh, can't wait to be done with this class, only need a handful of oils, a few grenades, and a tad more potions and i'll be ready to post it up, sadly i'll still have some questions about them, a few features i'm thinking about swapping for some different things and just can't decide, so hard to balance a solid chassis, casting, crafting, dark knowledge, and their other features xU

Westhart
2017-04-24, 08:42 AM
They need to spend a skill point to learn the actual formula itself, aside from the craft ranks needed to do it, not free by any means but giving a fighter the ability to even make the baneoil would be powerful so i feel it's fair, heck it's cheaper than a skill trick :P

For potions I'm probably going to include a mention that to gain the effects one must drink the entire flask of it and the smell and taste are powerful, i.e. slipping a touch into a drink wouldn't do anything and one sip of a glass of it would result in a 'what the hell is this you brought me?' sure a bluff check could work past that part but it won't be an easily applicable poison, cuz it's true it could be used as such, however i need to mention also that even failing the save the drinker still gets the benefit of the potion... they just might also be... well, dead.

don't worry, you're getting your smoke grenade :) they have the poison variant i listed earlier as an example but they'll have a regular one as well for creatures that are immune to poisons but still need to be distracted/blinded

i'll probably just take away the antimagic thing, antimagic is powerful enough as is and it would honestly be nice if the hunter could still perform some of his things inside of an antimagic area

Alright, just clearing up on the skill point thing, have a character that may like to use this when you finish it :smallwink:... If you don't mind?

artimus261
2017-04-24, 08:51 AM
not at all :) always glad when someone wants to use my stuff, just lemme know how it goes <3

i'll post a link on here to the class when it's done

Westhart
2017-04-24, 09:00 AM
not at all :) always glad when someone wants to use my stuff, just lemme know how it goes <3

i'll post a link on here to the class when it's done

Of course, but the feedback may be different then expected b/c it is epic (per my brother's request [shrug])

artimus261
2017-04-24, 09:11 AM
hooo :U have fun, i mean, there's cool as eff feats for that level but damn some of those monsters xP could definitely see why these might be super useful to nonhunters at those levels, being able to throw on additional effects even for a minute against epic level monsters for a fighter or barb would be super helpful

Westhart
2017-04-24, 09:18 AM
hooo :U have fun, i mean, there's cool as eff feats for that level but damn some of those monsters xP could definitely see why these might be super useful to nonhunters at those levels, being able to throw on additional effects even for a minute against epic level monsters for a fighter or barb would be super helpful

Actually no fighters (thankfully XD), some are using my homebrew, and most are casters (all except one) but yes, I *might* be using it as a playtest for some homebrew ideas :smallwink:

artimus261
2017-04-24, 09:46 AM
think i'm going to make a custom power word for their 4th level spells, trying to decide between power word daze or power word paralyze, thinking daze, was going to give them power word stun as a 4th but considering that the only limitation on it for a half caster is the low spells per day(their 10 caster level not bothering the function of it at all) i felt that was waaaay too good

Westhart
2017-04-24, 09:51 AM
think i'm going to make a custom power word for their 4th level spells, trying to decide between power word daze or power word paralyze, thinking daze, was going to give them power word stun as a 4th but considering that the only limitation on it for a half caster is the low spells per day(their 10 caster level not bothering the function of it at all) i felt that was waaaay too good

Depending on when they gain it; that might not be too bad. After all it only works on:


Any creature that currently has 151 or more hit points is unaffected by power word stun.


But instead of giving them it as a spell why not give them it as a spell like at a high level?
EDIT: not sure if you saw it, but do they cast divine or arcane spells? (Beware the archivist/artificer :smallwink:)

artimus261
2017-04-24, 10:03 AM
well truthfully even as a regular 4th level spell for them they wouldn't get it til 14th, which might not sound bad but it's actually a level before wizard and a level before sorcerer. That still could be saved considering it's YES or NO effect, the hunter having no way of truly knowing a creatures total health. could almost be argued as interesting if they got it before the real casters but would feel weird. as for the spell-like it's hard to explain, they get like... a loooot of features, thankfully it's a case of none of them by themselves are overpowering but all together this class can hang, but giving them a separate ability like that on top of the spells, tools, dark knowledge and favored prey, PLUS the other stuff i havent revealed would just feel like the tipping point, tell me what you think of power word daze though, in the end a much earlier spell even for a sorc or wiz that let's them keep a creature stuck to a spot while the party catches their breaths

Power Word Daze
Enchantment(Compulsion)[Mind-Affecting]
Level: Htr 4, Sorc/Wiz 3
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/2 levels)
Target: One living creature with 150 hp or less
Duration: See Text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You speak a word of power that seems to render its target unable to act.

You utter a single word of power that instantly causes one creature of your choice to become dazed, whether the creature can hear the word or not.
The duration of the spell depends on the target’s current hit point total, as shown below. Any creature that currently has 151 or more hit points is unaffected by power word daze.

HP_________Duration
50 or less___1d4+2 rounds
51-101_____1d4 rounds
101-150____1 round

artimus261
2017-04-24, 10:04 AM
EDIT: not sure if you saw it, but do they cast divine or arcane spells? (Beware the archivist/artificer :smallwink:)

They cast arcane, but why should i be afraid of those two? I straight up took the archivists dark knowledge xP

Westhart
2017-04-24, 10:06 AM
for magic item creation reduced cost since lower level spell and cl (there is a handbook somewhere... just for this)

if divine the archivist could get the lower spell levels and have the low version of what would be a higher level spell.

artimus261
2017-04-24, 10:29 AM
well for artificer i wouldn't consider this magical items, why a fighter with 4 int could put them together if he was willing to put in the craft ranks and acquire the recipe/method for an item

as for the archivist, not too worried since im making a heavily custom spell list, very very very small, with the spells/day of a paladin and they still need to prepare even though their list is gonna end up being like 6-7 spells at each spell level xP with everything else they have this is kind of a balancing factor for them, and the spells they do get are very strategically useful, been picking very carefully

Westhart
2017-04-24, 10:32 AM
well for artificer i wouldn't consider this magical items, why a fighter with 4 int could put them together if he was willing to put in the craft ranks and acquire the recipe/method for an item

as for the archivist, not too worried since im making a heavily custom spell list, very very very small, with the spells/day of a paladin and they still need to prepare even though their list is gonna end up being like 6-7 spells at each spell level xP with everything else they have this is kind of a balancing factor for them, and the spells they do get are very strategically useful, been picking very carefully

All good then, I just find that some people forget those two classes when making PrC's with spell casting :smallbiggrin:

artimus261
2017-04-24, 10:38 AM
yeah i do my best to try to keep all of the base classes in mind when im making a new base class or a prestige class, don't want to step on toes and don't want to have unforeseen broken combos xP honestly quite a few spells would work for the hunter but the main focus of their spells isn't to necessarily enhance their existing abilities but give them new ones, it's why im ignoring spells that would make their ranged or melee attacks better, what the oils are for, and trying to A stick to the spells themed around Geralt in Witcher 3 and B make sure they are tactically useful decisions

like some people might think it's pointless for them to have burning hands, the spell not even reaching it's 5d4 potential until 10th, but if you threw a ranger, a barbarian, a fighter, and a hunter in a room with some swarms guess who's walking out alive.

artimus261
2017-04-24, 11:04 AM
o.O was looking for that feat you mentioned for poisons and discovered i have NEVER SEEN THIS DROW OF THE UNDERDARK BOOK!!!!! IT'S AWESOME!!!! xD TY

Westhart
2017-04-25, 06:56 AM
o.O was looking for that feat you mentioned for poisons and discovered i have NEVER SEEN THIS DROW OF THE UNDERDARK BOOK!!!!! IT'S AWESOME!!!! xD TY

no problem, figured ut might go with the witcher a bit :smallbiggrin:


yeah i do my best to try to keep all of the base classes in mind when im making a new base class or a prestige class, don't want to step on toes and don't want to have unforeseen broken combos xP honestly quite a few spells would work for the hunter but the main focus of their spells isn't to necessarily enhance their existing abilities but give them new ones, it's why im ignoring spells that would make their ranged or melee attacks better, what the oils are for, and trying to A stick to the spells themed around Geralt in Witcher 3 and B make sure they are tactically useful decisions

like some people might think it's pointless for them to have burning hands, the spell not even reaching it's 5d4 potential until 10th, but if you threw a ranger, a barbarian, a fighter, and a hunter in a room with some swarms guess who's walking out alive.

Hehe yes, just wondering :smallsmile:

EDIT:
THis is comments on the daze spell:
As far as wizard 3 goes, for CR’s it may dominate:
Winter Wolf (Avg 51 hp) 1d4 rounds
Troll (Avg 63 hp) 1d4 rounds
So anything that would not have immunity can get dazed and then they can coup de grace it. But by the time a witcher gets it:
Trumpet archon (avg 126 hp) 1 round
Astrel Deva (avg 102 hp) 1 round
Nalfeshnee (avg 175 hp) 0 rounds
So, when the witcher gets it the most powerful times for it are over, *but* he can still reduce an enemy’s hp total, making this stay useful at higher levels, I like it… although I might move the wizard so it was wizard 4, witcher 4… hmm… after all succubus (cr 7) has an average of 33 hp

artimus261
2017-04-25, 10:30 AM
i do think it'll be powerful for sorc and wiz but daze doesn't actually make someone helpless, it doesn't even impair AC, so coup de grace wouldn't be viable, it's basically just a time out, they simply can't take any actions which in itself is bad enough for the poor things, and yeah i figured for the hunter(aka witcher) it would be hard to apply later on but since it's the only thing that doesn't have a DC it becomes a huge part of his late game capability, allowing him to take a break in the middle of a fight and apply an oil, throw a bomb, drink a potion, without fear of being shanked <3

and for the succubus she actually has Spell Resistance so it's not gonna be easy for someone to throw it on per se, think it should work out, maybe lower the duration to 3 rounds under 50, 2 rounds under 100, and keep the 1 round for the 101-150 range

Westhart
2017-04-25, 11:17 AM
i do think it'll be powerful for sorc and wiz but daze doesn't actually make someone helpless, it doesn't even impair AC, so coup de grace wouldn't be viable, it's basically just a time out, they simply can't take any actions which in itself is bad enough for the poor things, and yeah i figured for the hunter(aka witcher) it would be hard to apply later on but since it's the only thing that doesn't have a DC it becomes a huge part of his late game capability, allowing him to take a break in the middle of a fight and apply an oil, throw a bomb, drink a potion, without fear of being shanked <3

and for the succubus she actually has Spell Resistance so it's not gonna be easy for someone to throw it on per se, think it should work out, maybe lower the duration to 3 rounds under 50, 2 rounds under 100, and keep the 1 round for the 101-150 range

Ah yes, was thinking stun for some reason XP
Like the duration like that better

Morphic tide
2017-04-25, 11:21 AM
Actually, Daze tends to be seen as better than Stun, because you get the forced loss of an action and it's immensely difficult to get immunity to.

artimus261
2017-04-25, 03:29 PM
Well on one hand I think that's perfect for the hunter. Do you think it'd be more balanced as a level 4 sorc/wiz spell with the changed duration? Maybe below 51 being 1d2+1, under 101 being 1d2 and being under 151 just being 1 round

artimus261
2017-04-26, 09:02 AM
finally on the last leg of this class. prettying up the hunter's tools descriptions(potions, oils, bombs) and working out the last 2 oils and last potion.

they are gonna end up with 15 different oils, 7 grenades, and 5 potions. all in all a decent amount of custom things to make :D so excite

Westhart
2017-04-26, 09:16 AM
finally on the last leg of this class. prettying up the hunter's tools descriptions(potions, oils, bombs) and working out the last 2 oils and last potion.

they are gonna end up with 15 different oils, 7 grenades, and 5 potions. all in all a decent amount of custom things to make :D so excite

Sounds good, I'll make sure to peach it :smallsmile:

artimus261
2017-04-26, 04:42 PM
just finished prettying up one of my grenades and just had to post it, think it's baller xD


Sanctus: This useful tool was developed by a hunter in need of something to help him keep the undead away from their victims before they could reach them, the tool also turning out to heal the living with it’s power. Upon it’s use the sanctus grenade exudes a flash of powerful positive light out to a 15ft radius, dealing 2d4 points of damage to undead and healing 2d4 points of damage to the living within the area. Undead caught in the area also must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or flee the area for 1 round as if they were turned by a good-aligned cleric. Additionally the area gains the benefits of the magic circle against evil spell cast by a 10th level caster for 5 rounds.

Westhart
2017-04-27, 04:47 AM
just finished prettying up one of my grenades and just had to post it, think it's baller xD


Sanctus: This useful tool was developed by a hunter in need of something to help him keep the undead away from their victims before they could reach them, the tool also turning out to heal the living with it’s power. Upon it’s use the sanctus grenade exudes a flash of powerful positive light out to a 15ft radius, dealing 2d4 points of damage to undead and healing 2d4 points of damage to the living within the area. Undead caught in the area also must succeed on a DC 15 Fortitude save or flee the area for 1 round as if they were turned by a good-aligned cleric. Additionally the area gains the benefits of the magic circle against evil spell cast by a 10th level caster for 5 rounds.

I like it, maybe at higher levels do more damage/have longer turn duration so it is used more?

artimus261
2017-04-27, 07:50 AM
Well to an extent I think it's already in some ways better than turning undead. It requires no check, it's has no maximum number of HD and it even ignores turning resistance that they may have. Throw in the aoe heal and damage I think it's solid. Most of their tools aren't necessarily meant to do a lot of damage but help them set the pace of an encounter. The oils they have against undead are pretty decent and this is just a nice turn 1 move or a nice way to get them away if he or an ally is about to be mobbed.

Westhart
2017-04-27, 07:55 AM
Well to an extent I think it's already in some ways better than turning undead. It requires no check, it's has no maximum number of HD and it even ignores turning resistance that they may have. Throw in the aoe heal and damage I think it's solid. Most of their tools aren't necessarily meant to do a lot of damage but help them set the pace of an encounter. The oils they have against undead are pretty decent and this is just a nice turn 1 move or a nice way to get them away if he or an ally is about to be mobbed.

Ah yes, forgot the level check, although that does bring to mind maybe have a HD cap? That or add the turn resistance to their save. Also one thing, make it a different ability score as undead do not have Con and this seems mostly undead focused...

artimus261
2017-04-27, 08:26 AM
thats why i'm not gonna be makin the damage better or the duration longer, more often than not a hunter won't be carrying too many of these, unless they're just a butt, and it's kinda meant to be good against all undead, but only helps for about 5 rounds, keeping them from a small 15ft area, each of their tools ends up being pretty specialized so that a hunter needs to know what he's getting in to, a hunter might be going after undead, armed to the teeth with the right oil, the right grenade, and the right potions, but if he finds a dragon at the bottom of that dungeon that's been controlling these undead he'll be sorely unprepared, all of this paired with the expansive but limited boosts the class gets as actual class features i think will turn out okay, and DC 15 isn't necessarily impossible, though i'm aware they have a lack of con scores it doesn't impart a penalty so whatever they have from their HD has to suffice, some examples are the Mohrg, a cr 8 undead, he has a +4 Fort, he only has to roll 11, not good, but not dead in the water, a mummy lord, cr 15, only needs to roll a 2 with his +13 bonus. i don't think it'll be a big problem overall, definitely good, but not a huge deal, especially considering the short durations of both effects

Westhart
2017-04-27, 08:35 AM
thats why i'm not gonna be makin the damage better or the duration longer, more often than not a hunter won't be carrying too many of these, unless they're just a butt, and it's kinda meant to be good against all undead, but only helps for about 5 rounds, keeping them from a small 15ft area, each of their tools ends up being pretty specialized so that a hunter needs to know what he's getting in to, a hunter might be going after undead, armed to the teeth with the right oil, the right grenade, and the right potions, but if he finds a dragon at the bottom of that dungeon that's been controlling these undead he'll be sorely unprepared, all of this paired with the expansive but limited boosts the class gets as actual class features i think will turn out okay, and DC 15 isn't necessarily impossible, though i'm aware they have a lack of con scores it doesn't impart a penalty so whatever they have from their HD has to suffice, some examples are the Mohrg, a cr 8 undead, he has a +4 Fort, he only has to roll 11, not good, but not dead in the water, a mummy lord, cr 15, only needs to roll a 2 with his +13 bonus. i don't think it'll be a big problem overall, definitely good, but not a huge deal, especially considering the short durations of both effects

Yeah, I feel it will work out. One of my players can not wait for it, although he said he is going to multiclass it with my mercenary (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?522175-The-mercenary-(base-class)), which may come out *very* interesting

artimus261
2017-04-27, 08:59 AM
that would be very fitting, i just hope he's met a hunter before xP even if it was just during a job. doesn't really matter in the end but the story for my class here is a child who was inducted into this trade and trained rigorously into adulthood when he could finally don the mantle of hunter. helps explain why they gain these specific tools, why they are so educated in these matters as well as trained in combat against them and helps explain that +6 Fort against the toxic effects of their potions ;) but SO glad someone wants to use them ;) though it may seem weak compared to your merc honestly ^_^'

Westhart
2017-04-27, 11:11 AM
that would be very fitting, i just hope he's met a hunter before xP even if it was just during a job. doesn't really matter in the end but the story for my class here is a child who was inducted into this trade and trained rigorously into adulthood when he could finally don the mantle of hunter. helps explain why they gain these specific tools, why they are so educated in these matters as well as trained in combat against them and helps explain that +6 Fort against the toxic effects of their potions ;) but SO glad someone wants to use them ;) though it may seem weak compared to your merc honestly ^_^'

Hehe, well they are all shield bonuses so do not stack with each other or shields ('cept sword and board)
Funny thing is I have had it said that it was too weak as far as defense... but in the purposes of not derailing this thread I will reply in the merc's :smallwink:

artimus261
2017-04-29, 10:50 AM
THE GRAND UNVEILING, ladies and gents I give you! THE HUNTER!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523392-Hunter-(aka-Witcher)-3-5&p=21964315#post21964315

Westhart
2017-04-30, 06:26 AM
THE GRAND UNVEILING, ladies and gents I give you! THE HUNTER!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523392-Hunter-(aka-Witcher)-3-5&p=21964315#post21964315

Gonna go peach. although it seems to have quite a bit of attention already XD