Does vow of peace make you effectively immune to ranged weapon attacks?

[Nebuul]

I have a question regarding the defense vs "manufactured weapons" given by vow of peace from BoED: Does it make you immune to ranged projectile attacks? I believe a non-magical, unattended item always fails saving throws. And magic items don't have very strong saves unless they are pretty powerful. So that means you would be immune to arrows, bolts, darts, polished rocks, ballista spears, catapult spiked balls, etc. because those items are no longer attended once launched, but they are still manufactured weapons. Even thrown axes and things would just instantly shatter against your skin. Am I missing something here?

One could even argue that the protection would extend to certain magical attacks as well -- anything that created a projectile is, by definition, manufactured. So any of those projectiles that hit you would shatter as well, leaving you unharmed.

(in before "BoED is horribly written")

[Flickerdart]

Regardless of whether or not a projectile is intact, it carries the same kinetic energy. Being lacerated by shrapnel is not at all harmless.

[Starbuck_II]

I have a question regarding the defense vs "manufactured weapons" given by vow of peace from BoED: Does it make you immune to ranged projectile attacks? I believe a non-magical, unattended item always fails saving throws. And magic items don't have very strong saves unless they are pretty powerful. So that means you would be immune to arrows, bolts, darts, polished rocks, ballista spears, catapult spiked balls, etc. because those items are no longer attended once launched, but they are still manufactured weapons. Even thrown axes and things would just instantly shatter against your skin. Am I missing something here?

One could even argue that the protection would extend to certain magical attacks as well -- anything that created a projectile is, by definition, manufactured. So any of those projectiles that hit you would shatter as well, leaving you unharmed.

(in before "BoED is horribly written")


No, spells don't need to wielded and aren't items.
But yes, arrow immunity I can see. But It would hit first (so deal damage still) so only really helps vs secondary like nets, returning weapons, etc.

[Nebuul]

No, spells don't need to wielded and aren't items.
But yes, arrow immunity I can see. But It would hit first (so deal damage still) so only really helps vs secondary like nets, returning weapons, etc.

Um, it would most definitely not do damage:


If a creature strikes you with a manufactured weapon, the weapon must immediately make a successful Fortitude save (DC 10 + one-half your character level + your Con modifier) or shatter against your skin, leaving you unharmed.

Also, spells might be weapons. Weapon-like spells is a thing, after all. It would certainly make this vow more interesting.

[Inevitability]

Regardless of whether or not a projectile is intact, it carries the same kinetic energy. Being lacerated by shrapnel is not at all harmless.

Thing is, it specifically says the projectile 'shatters harmlessly'. Kinetic energy be damned, magic is just stopping the fragments from hurting you.

[Telonius]

There are a few things that could still hit him from range. Non-manufactured ranged weapons (I'm thinking giants with boulders, or a halfling with a rock, or a Drunken Master giant with a halfling) would strike him normally. I think there's a handful of ranged natural weapons, too (I believe there was one in Magic of Incarnum).

[Nebuul]

There are a few things that could still hit him from range. Non-manufactured ranged weapons (I'm thinking giants with boulders, or a halfling with a rock, or a Drunken Master giant with a halfling) would strike him normally. I think there's a handful of ranged natural weapons, too (I believe there was one in Magic of Incarnum).

Just remember that "manufactured weapon" is very broad. Extremely so. It just means that:
1. something must be a "weapon"
2. it must have been altered from its natural state

So if you polish a rock, it's manufactured. If you create a boulder from conjuring, it's a manufactured weapon. If you create an arrow from ironwood, it's a manufactured weapon. If you create an ice dagger out of thin air, it's a manufactured weapon (per weapon-like spells). Of course, in the case of a spell, I believe this feat would only protect you from something that damaged directly. If the ice dagger, for instance, exploded on contact and dealt damage in an area, I don't think it would help vs that. It would only provide protection from an ice dagger that did its damage with stabbie stabbie action.

[Telonius]

Just remember that "manufactured weapon" is very broad. Extremely so. It just means that:
1. something must be a "weapon"
2. it must have been altered from its natural state

So if you polish a rock, it's manufactured. If you create a boulder from conjuring, it's a manufactured weapon. If you create an arrow from ironwood, it's a manufactured weapon. If you create an ice dagger out of thin air, it's a manufactured weapon (per weapon-like spells). Of course, in the case of a spell, I believe this feat would only protect you from something that damaged directly. If the ice dagger, for instance, exploded on contact and dealt damage in an area, I don't think it would help vs that. It would only provide protection from an ice dagger that did its damage with stabbie stabbie action.

So the Giant with the Halfling would be fine as long as the Halfing didn't have a template. :smallbiggrin:

[Strigon]

Just remember that "manufactured weapon" is very broad. Extremely so. It just means that:
1. something must be a "weapon"
2. it must have been altered from its natural state

So if you polish a rock, it's manufactured. If you create a boulder from conjuring, it's a manufactured weapon. If you create an arrow from ironwood, it's a manufactured weapon. If you create an ice dagger out of thin air, it's a manufactured weapon (per weapon-like spells). Of course, in the case of a spell, I believe this feat would only protect you from something that damaged directly. If the ice dagger, for instance, exploded on contact and dealt damage in an area, I don't think it would help vs that. It would only provide protection from an ice dagger that did its damage with stabbie stabbie action.

That... doesn't fit any definition of manufactured I can find, anywhere.
Every dictionary I have access to says that manufacturing something means simply to make or create it, not just to alter it. Some of them go so far as to specify that machinery must be used, and/or it must be done on an industrial scale.

Simply altering something from its original state does not constitute making a new thing. If you polish a rock, it's still a rock. It's still the same rock. You haven't manufactured anything. If you chip a rock into the shape of a knife, and use it that way, then you could say it's manufactured, but that involves a far greater change.

[Dagroth]

So the Giant with the Halfling would be fine as long as the Halfing didn't have a template. :smallbiggrin:

Naw... You'd only be protected if the Giant were throwing a summoned thing at you. So, if the Giant threw a Astral Deva at you... boom!

Well, probably not boom, since he'd probably make his save.

[Nebuul]

Naw... You'd only be protected if the Giant were throwing a summoned thing at you. So, if the Giant threw a Astral Deva at you... boom!

Well, probably not boom, since he'd probably make his save.

Summoned, no. Created or polished, yes :-)

Regarding the polished comment: if you are a manufacturer of polished rocks, you take an unpolished rock and create a polished rock by modifying the original rock. Outside of d&d, matter cannot be created. You never manufacture something by creating. Manufacturing is modifying raw materials to end up with a new product.

[Starbuck_II]

Wouldn't rocks (just picked up for slings) and Clubs (since they are just sticks) get through?

Wait, does that mean Monks' fists break since their momma manufactured them by getting pregnant?

[Psyren]

Just use a Starmantle Cloak + Evasion and give Vow of Peace the wide berth it deserves.

[Necroticplague]

Spells are ranged attacks that can still mess up your day, as are ranged natural weapons (such as manticore spikes, or archon light beams).

[Venger]

I have a question regarding the defense vs "manufactured weapons" given by vow of peace from BoED: Does it make you immune to ranged projectile attacks? I believe a non-magical, unattended item always fails saving throws. And magic items don't have very strong saves unless they are pretty powerful. So that means you would be immune to arrows, bolts, darts, polished rocks, ballista spears, catapult spiked balls, etc. because those items are no longer attended once launched, but they are still manufactured weapons. Even thrown axes and things would just instantly shatter against your skin. Am I missing something here?

One could even argue that the protection would extend to certain magical attacks as well -- anything that created a projectile is, by definition, manufactured. So any of those projectiles that hit you would shatter as well, leaving you unharmed.

(in before "BoED is horribly written")
like most words used in rulebooks, "manufactured" doesn't mean what it does when used in everyday conversation.

if a weapon is called out as a natural weapon, or is something listed on a weapon chart, it is a manufactured weapon. natural weapons are not manufactured weapons. some things like monks' improved unarmed strikes are treated as both, so this is yet another way to dispose of monks.

nonmagic unattended items indeed are treated as automtically failing their saves.

ranged ammunition is treated as unattended.

you cannot argue that because that's not how the rules work. weaponlike spells enjoy a very limited number of properties, such as being able to crit and being valid targets for weapon focus, but they are not called out as manufactures weapons, because they are not manufactured weapons. If you use the spell "ice lance" for example, it is not a manufactured weapon. it is a spell.


There are a few things that could still hit him from range. Non-manufactured ranged weapons (I'm thinking giants with boulders, or a halfling with a rock, or a Drunken Master giant with a halfling) would strike him normally. I think there's a handful of ranged natural weapons, too (I believe there was one in Magic of Incarnum).

You're thinking of the spines from the manticore belt's totem bind.

[Telonius]

Wouldn't rocks (just picked up for slings) and Clubs (since they are just sticks) get through?

Wait, does that mean Monks' fists break since their momma manufactured them by getting pregnant?

Monks count as natural or manufactured weapons, whichever is most beneficial to the Monk. So I think we have a case where Monk levels could save someone's life - especially something like a Warforged.

[Zombimode]

Regardless of whether or not a projectile is intact, it carries the same kinetic energy. Being lacerated by shrapnel is not at all harmless.

The same is true for melee attacks. And yet the ability protects from them. Why should missle weapon be treated differently?

[weckar]

So the Giant with the Halfling would be fine as long as the Halfing didn't have a template. :smallbiggrin:

Or if a mommy halfling and a daddy halfling love each other very much, they may manufacture another halfling...

[Bullet06320]

Or if a mommy halfling and a daddy halfling love each other very much, they may manufacture another halfling...

don't tinker gnomes reproduce that way too?
or does that explain warforged?