Lycanthropy Help. (3.5 D&D. )

[Metahuman1]

Ok, I am looking to make a Lycanthrope strain for an upcoming game I'll be building a character for.

Can someone walk me through how to do that?



Also, regarding the animal. Does anyone know of a small bird that would qualify, and also qualify for size category Fine, have 1 HD, and be able to have a flight speed in animal form with a perfect maneuverability?

[Lazymancer]

Why don't you go Hengeyoukai sparrow?

[Metahuman1]

They have like a 3/day limit on there form changes if I recall correctly. Otherwise I would.

[Remuko]

The only bird I can think of that would be close to fitting that is a hummingbird. Not many birds would have perfect maneuverability

[OldTrees1]

"Lycanthrope" is a template that can be added to any humanoid or giant (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

This animal can be any predator, scavenger, or omnivore whose size is within one size category of the base creature’s size (Small, Medium, or Large for a Medium base creature).



So you want a fine-sized (dust sized?) bird that is a predator, scavenger, or omnivore and a diminutive-sized (1 foot max height) humanoid? That is a tall order.

What about a Hawk(Tiny predator bird) / Halfling(Small humanoid)? You end up being 2 sized categories larger than you asked for.,.

[Celestia]

The only bird I can think of that would be close to fitting that is a hummingbird. Not many birds would have perfect maneuverability
Hummingbirds are neither carnivorous nor omnivorous and, therefore, are not valid choices for lycanthropy. Also, they use the stats of the thrush except at fine size, and, if I recall correctly, the thrush has average maneuverability.

[Metahuman1]

Actually, a little google fu seems to suggest that hummingbirds do feature insects as a prominent part of there diet.


Also suggested Kingfishers, which also can hover, and eat fish as a major feature of there diet, and can be smaller then some species of sparrow. Sparrows being size category fine.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-there-no-carnivorous-hovering-birds-birds-that-could-hover-as-well-as-hummingbirds-to-catch-spiders-and-others-insects





The need to be within one size category of the starting point is an issue though.


Hmmmm,

Maybe I'm going about this wrong. Is there a way for a Hegenyokai to get unlimited form changes? Cause, if so, that might work better, the unlimited changes being the only reason I didn't go for that instead.

[ShurikVch]

Mite (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mite_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)) was updated to 3.5 in Dangerous Denizens as Tiny Humanoid LA +0; Jermlaine with Dustform Creature and Incarnate Construct templates is Tiny Humanoid LA +0 too; if you take any of them, then you will be able to use Screech Owl as base animal (it's Diminutive; Hummingbird in 3.5 is Diminutive too, but with lower stats)

And the only bird with good maneuverability I'm aware of is Chordevoc from Races of the Wild (Tiny Animal, 1 HD); AFAIK, no animal have "perfect"

[Lazymancer]

Maybe I'm going about this wrong. Is there a way for a Hegenyokai to get unlimited form changes? Cause, if so, that might work better, the unlimited changes being the only reason I didn't go for that instead.Why do you even need unlimited form changes? They can stay in any form indefinitely and by mid-level there aren't many situations when you'll be exhausting their limit (1 + level times per day).

Otherwise, homebrew a feat that grants unlimited form changes. It's not a big thing.

[Metahuman1]

Because I've seen too many DM's who are fond of getting you to have to change shape to do this or that to progress, so that they can either screw you on a none combat encounter by having you stuck in one form, or screw you in combat by having you in the other. This character is gonna have a fairly short list of things he's good/capable of, I'd rather not him randomly getting shut out of being able to operate to par on half of them. Thus, the desire to secure unlimited shifts per day.

[Gildedragon]

Mulhorandi Divine Minion (Isis)
It's only average maneuverability but the LA is less and it is unlimited

[Metahuman1]

What book?

[Gildedragon]

No book. Web article (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a)

[Segev]

The Tibbit race can shift to cat form at will. Steal its mechanics, but replace "cat" with a bird of your choice, perhaps?

[Metahuman1]

Temping, but it's size Tiny, I was looking to go Fine. (character class will be Warlock, and I've got rolls with no options for point buy or retools of 10, 12, 12, 12, 13, 14 to assign. So, that size bonus to hit and to Dex is going to be of importance if I want to be able to hit with eldritch blasts and later eldritch claws reliably. )



Edit: Swordsaged.


En, true, but now were REALLY getting into more home-brew then I'd initially been looking for.

I've asked the DM about just brewing a feat for Hegenyokai so that they can just pop between forms all day. Waiting to see what he says.

[Lazymancer]

Because I've seen too many DM's who are fond of getting you to have to change shape to do this or that to progress, so that they can either screw you on a none combat encounter by having you stuck in one form, or screw you in combat by having you in the other. This character is gonna have a fairly short list of things he's good/capable of, I'd rather not him randomly getting shut out of being able to operate to par on half of them. Thus, the desire to secure unlimited shifts per day.
Your only solution is not to play with bad GM. No amount of optimization can protect your character from being messed with.

For example, if you go Lycanthrope, you'll end up with [shapechanger] subtype. If GM wants to mess with you, everyone will start detecting shapechangers (Discern Shapechanger is 2nd-level spell from SpC) and trying to murder you, because you are clearly rakshasa in disguise.

[Metahuman1]

And now he's made it so obvious he can't claim anything else except messing with me.

Were as making me keep changing till I can't and come to an encounter were I needed my other form? "Sorry, you were trying to do stuff, and you needed to swap around for that."

[Segev]

What level are you looking at? Do you have a specific base race in mind, or a set of base races you're looking at?

Any fine-sized swarm would get the fine-sized accuracy benefits, I think. So perhaps a Swarmshifter Gravetouched Ghoul? Take the "undead sand" type or the "undead flies" type and you're a swarm of fine flying creatures when you want to be. Sadly, while Gravetouched Ghoul has a +2 LA, Swarmshifter doesn't actually list an LA for adding it, so you'd have to talk to your DM about that.

If you've got the levels to pull off a mind-switch (buying a one-off item of True Mind Switch is the most straight-forward way), you could try doing that with a Shimmerling Swarm. Whether you can keep the whole hive-minded swarm or only retain control of one, they're diminuitive-sized flying creatures.

[ShurikVch]

Temping, but it's size Tiny, I was looking to go Fine. (character class will be Warlock, and I've got rolls with no options for point buy or retools of 10, 12, 12, 12, 13, 14 to assign. So, that size bonus to hit and to Dex is going to be of importance if I want to be able to hit with eldritch blasts and later eldritch claws reliably. )According to Dragon #323, Fly have the same statistics as Thrush, except Fine-sized; so, how about the Entomanothrope (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) (Fly)?

[Segev]

According to Dragon #323, Fly have the same statistics as Thrush, except Fine-sized; so, how about the Entomanothrope (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) (Fly)?

Entomanothropes assume a form one size smaller than their base form when they go vermin-form, specifically regardless of the normal size of the vermin.

[OldTrees1]

Entomanothropes assume a form one size smaller than their base form when they go vermin-form, specifically regardless of the normal size of the vermin.

Lycans are at most 1 size smaller than the humanoid form too.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, update having been away getting sleep for a few hours. DM approved the idea of Homebrewing a feat for Hegenyokai to get unlimited form changes per day.


I thank you all for the patience, help and suggestions. (In case anyone is wondering, I'm going to go sparrow, and invest in 2 feats to get that soul meld from magic of incarnum (away from books right now and the name escapes me.) that gives the perfect maneuverability, so that I can hover. )

I have opened up a new thread soon for some build input regarding invocations/feats/skill investments for the build. Anyone who's willing/interested, feel free to pop on buy!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?522153-Warlock-help!-(3-5-D-amp-D)

Thanks again for all the help! =)

[Celestia]

Ok, update having been away getting sleep for a few hours. DM approved the idea of Homebrewing a feat for Hegenyokai to get unlimited form changes per day.


I thank you all for the patience, help and suggestions. (In case anyone is wondering, I'm going to go sparrow, and invest in 2 feats to get that soul meld from magic of incarnum (away from books right now and the name escapes me.) that gives the perfect maneuverability, so that I can hover. )

I have opened up a new thread soon for some build input regarding invocations/feats/skill investments for the build. Anyone who's willing/interested, feel free to pop on buy!

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?522153-Warlock-help!-(3-5-D-amp-D)

Thanks again for all the help! =)
Improved Flight can get you hover for just one feat.

[Segev]

Lycans are at most 1 size smaller than the humanoid form too.

I'm aware. I was pointing out that it is also true with the Entomanothrope template because somebody was suggesting using a fly or something because it's fine-sized.

[OldTrees1]

I'm aware. I was pointing out that it is also true with the Entomanothrope template because somebody was suggesting using a fly or something because it's fine-sized.

Gotcha

Although they were suggesting a fine sized insect because that would allow the humanoid to be merely dimunitative and still reach the OP's goal of a fine sized flying form.

[Metahuman1]

Well, having hit his goals, the OP's moved on to the next leg of the project.

If you'd care to drop over to that thread and lend a hand, I'd appreciate it!