OOTS #335 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

If you or anyone you know is going to GenCon in 9 days, you'll want to check out the Home/News page for info on some cool freebies we'll be giving out, plus some peaks at our three newest t-shirt designs.

[Erlindur]

what is this?

I thought so, a first post :)

I simply adore V.

[Mr._Wilson]

The love-lust list is brilliant.

Wild Empathy check. Lol.

[Eldhrin]

Fantastic! Seems Belkar needs to go get a refund on those 'killer' hornets if Durkon could deal with it with a mere 'Cure Itchy Wounds' spell.

Now there's a spell I'd like to know.

I also think that Belkar's mental lust/hate list is perfect. 'That Bilbo Tool' ;D ;D ;D

Also: third post!!

Also also: those t-shirts look great. Please sell them online! And I so wish I could go to GenCon and get one of those fridge magnets. Unfortunately I'm on the wrong continent.

[Death, your friend the Reaper]

V defintly dosen't want to relive that kiss again anytime soon lol.

Hmm freebies you say? Must start saving for airline ticket..

[The_Magpie]

Heh, good one. V's right; the thought of Belkar on V action is too horrible to bear, even if predicted by other forum goers.

Mein Gott! Is this the first page I see before me? ;D

[Ragnarokpc]

Nice, thank you! V truly has a dizzying intellect. ;)

[Felinoid]

"Hmm? Oh, no, that is merely for my personal amusement."
You and thousands of others, V. Keep it up, my good wo...er, elf. This feud shall amuse me for years to come. :D

[Cybella]

;D V's motivations are even more hilarious than the actions!

Another great comic, Giant. Thank you!


Can it be? First time on first page. Woot!

[Krytha]

Oh. My. God.

V is hilarious.

[Calamity]

Hehe,

Belkar can only hate or lust, so he lusts hermione granger then? :o

Oh no, that is merely for my own personal amusement rofl ;D

Great comic!

[The_Logic_Ninja]

;D

This is the most hilarious comic for quite some time now. I approve.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I'm not sure which made me laugh more. I think it's a three-way tie between "Hermione Granger" on his "Lust" list, "That Bilbo Tool" on the "Hate" list, and the muskrat for V's personal amusement.

[Delgarde]

Hahahaha... love this one. Starting to revise my opinion of V's alignment... definitely leaning toward evil.

[Vargtass]

This was simly awesome! Best explanation (of course!) to the Belkar-V relationship that could possibly be imagined! I, for one, did not see it coming.

[Baldknight]

;D
Now I understand Belkar alot more than before.

Poor V they must have really been traumatised by "the event" if they are willing to put up with Belkar's tricks.

I bet Belkar wont be happy if he found out V was letting him act that way.

[Delgarde]

I'm not sure which made me laugh more. I think it's a three-way tie between "Hermione Granger" on his "Lust" list, "That Bilbo Tool" on the "Hate" list, and the muskrat for V's personal amusement.

I'd have to say the muskrat... too funny.

[Delgarde]

So, anyone want to guess at the odds of Belkar making a successful Wild Empathy check?

[Sir_Norbert]

Wonderful comic. (Second page!)

But who is Mrs Butterworth?

[Ronald_saveloy]

So, anyone want to guess at the odds of Belkar making a successful Wild Empathy check?

He fails! Considering the ranks Belkar had put in other Ranger skills, he should be very poor in Wild Empathy.

[Eldhrin]

I think he has to fail his Wild Empathy check, for comedic effect if nothing else. So far V has had entirely the upper hand, and it's a bit too early for Belkar to manage to turn things around - if he ever does.

Also, it didn't sound very much like his check was succeeding...

Oh and another thought, would Wild Empathy even apply to a charmed creature? He might be just wasting breath he should be using to stab it.

[Bakta]

This one drew an hearty laugh.


Poor Gerald Ford, now the alternative for him is to be loved by Belkar... ugh

[Neopolis]

Hey, I'm early this time.

Awesome comic. I can just see Belkar's brain working like that. Poor V...

[Kirinith]

Wonderful comic. (Second page!)

But who is Mrs Butterworth?

Mrs Buttersworth is the icon for a brand of maple syrup.

Ah, the joys of random bits of knowledge. Yay, second page!

[martyboy74]

Well, that should shut up the forum-goes predicting love.

In other words, Yay! ;D

[Delgarde]

Well, that should shut up the forum-goes predcting love.

I think you're optimistic, myself.

[houseofcommons]

First thing in the morning, and I get some wonderful stickage.

Funniest comic I've seen in a while. . .since the last one, that is.

Edit: Second page joy!

Also, Mrs. Butterworth: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mrs._Butterworth%27s

[rosebud]

Hmm. V doesn't seem to understand the concept of "alcohol" and brain inhibition.

And, my, panackes with ice cream slathered with maple syrup and sprinkles -- that would bring Thog and Belkar together.

[Aiani]

V is so cool. It is so funny that the best thing you can get from Belkar is to be hated by him.

[Archonic Energy]

proto-brain with only 2 settings... he he he.

reminds me of someone i know.

[Calsan]

Lol, I'm liking this sequence.
;D

[warmachine]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear! The symptom of an academic who's spent too much time in an ivory tower. If Vaarsuvius only stepped back and compared his theory against more evidence. For example, Dungeon Crawling Fools page D, Belkar shows annoyance at Haley, rather than lust, for being better at hiding. #34a, Belkar shows generosity towards Elan yet attacks him in #124 despite Elan doing nothing to make Belkar hate him beforehand.

Tut, tut, tut! As an academic, Vaarsuvius should know better. A better explanation is that Belkar is chaotic and doesn't believe in restraining his behaviour or attitudes.

[Castamir]

V defintly dosen't want to relive that kiss again anytime soon
I can see a good way for Belkar to pummel V to the ground. If a kiss causes your prey so much suffering, why not repeat it?
:P

[Iruka]

didn't like the last comic that much, but this one is realley hilarious!

[smellie_hippie]

Woot! Third page!
Woot! Great Comic!

This one had me almost falling out of the chair. Mrs Butterworth and Warwick Davis (could barely make that one out). That's friggin hilarious! ;D

I also enjoy the "double blind" experiment of getting V back on to Belkar's hate list. Heh heh... wild empathy check... wait, wouldn't that make the muskrat MORE attracted to Belkar!?

[Antina]

Vs so smart - even got wild explanations for simply doing childish things because being pissed...

WILD EMPATHY CHECK - soooo great!!! ;D

[Antina]

Fantastic! Seems Belkar needs to go get a refund on those 'killer' hornets if Durkon could deal with it with a mere 'Cure Itchy Wounds' spell.
.

Nad! The whole team went up a level - remember? So the tiny itches doesn´t matter so much.

[Legendcrafter]

Hee hee hee! Scientific explaination of Belkar's so-called mind...Love it!...


I think I need to soak my brain in acid now.

"No, that is for my own amusement" Brilliant Giant!
I give thee props.

[Doompuppy]

I think he has to fail his Wild Empathy check, for comedic effect if nothing else. So far V has had entirely the upper hand, and it's a bit too early for Belkar to manage to turn things around - if he ever does.

Also, it didn't sound very much like his check was succeeding...

Oh and another thought, would Wild Empathy even apply to a charmed creature? He might be just wasting breath he should be using to stab it.

Not sure what good the wild empathy check will do anyway... doesn't the muskrat already count as, um, friendly at least? =)

[battleburn]

Bwahahaha.
for my own amusement
Hahahahaha!!!!!111

And on a more serious note:
I wonder where Durkon is on Belkar's list.
I don't see him on the lust side (heaven forbids)
But Belkar and Durkon never really interact, so there is no evidence of hate.

100 posts!!!

[Nerd_Paladin]

Perhaps once she's done studying Belkar V can devote some fieldwork to Elan. Possibly placing him in an eleborate Maze spell with a lollipop at the end and then timing him.

[GeeVee]

Laughed out loud at this one. Great job, Giant.

[Mr_Shrubber]

Not one, not two, but THREE of the all time greatest OotS quotes:
"Cure itchy wounds!"
"That is just for my personal amusement."
and of course
"WILD EMPATHY CHECK!"
You are looking at a happy geek. When can we expect these on t-shirts? ;D

[Dugray]

Good stuff.. Mrs. Butterworth? WTF?

[blackfox]

Hm. This really does remind me of the good old days of The Feud. ;D

[Korta]

Hilarious! I love V!!!
I wish I lived near Indianapolis or knew someone who did. I want those books...even if I can't afford them yet. And I think that the Belkar magnet should be on the webpage any day that there isn't a new comic....
Oh well, still saving the pennies. Love the hydra hut shirt, too!
8)

[farewell2kings]

I love OOTS when it makes me laugh out loud...great one!!

[rosebud]

Mrs. Butterworth? WTF?One of the neat things about discussion boards is people answer questions. And then people can read them. Your question was answered on page 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=display;board=comics;num=1154252845 ;start=15#23) of the discussion:

Mrs Buttersworth is the icon for a brand of maple syrup.

Not once, but twice (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=display;board=comics;num=1154252845 ;start=15#26).

And thanks to the Magic of the Internet, you can also search (http://images.google.com/images?q=mrs.%20butterworth) for terms from the Oracle (http://www.google.com/search?q=mrs.%20butterworth) and receive many (http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_mrsbutterworth.htm) answers (http://www.pinnaclefoodscorp.com/WebPortals/Default.aspx?tabid=35).

(Yes, the number of messages in a thread get to be rather overwhelming. :))

[indianajoe]

Great punchline.

[Tach13]

A friend of mine showed me this comic a few weeks back, and I find it incredibly hillarious. I was disappointed when I made it through all 330ish episodes, and check it daily for new ones.
All the characters are great, but Belkar is my favorite. That list was great, made me laugh hard, and as has been noted, the wild empathy check was made funnier just imagining the image.
Great addtion to a great comic.

[Duncan_MacSmasher]

Doom approves.

[Haggis_McCrablice]

Mrs. Butterworth? [falls off chair laughing] Well, I guess Aunt Jemima really isn't what I'd call "sexy"...and lusting after the Morton Salt girl would be too close too pedophilia (although I do admit I like her little yellow boots)....

Although, V, dude: prejudiced much? I mean, if I were to publicly espouse such a theory about any ethnic/political/religious/gender/sexual preference group, my guestbook would explode from the daily hate spamming....

...although know that I have your attention, I think kobolds are totally nasty little teases. I mean, you know what a kobold's left leg says to its right leg? Nothing. The two have never met. ;)

[TroyXavier]

First the overcomplicated explanation(Gotta love V) then Wild Empathy Check........it was awesome. ;D

[CommanderFalken]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elftist]

Great comic. I especially appreciated the list, especially because it forced me to look up who Warwick Davis was.

I now love Vaarsuvius more then ever.

[Player_of_Games]

One of the funniest in a long time, especially V's line Hmm? Oh no, that is merely for my personal amusemen in the context of the comic.

[Sir_Leorik]

LOL! The list (with Gerry Ford and Mrs. Butterworth being objects of hate and lust respectively) was hilarious.

By the way is the muskrat a nod to Dork Tower, or was it a randomly selected animal?

[Ronald_saveloy]

By the way is the muskrat a nod to Dork Tower, or was it a randomly selected animal?

I'm not sure. But there were hornets and a muskrat in OotS too:

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=138

[LE4dGOLEM]

Hate/Lust Brain... Interesting.

As is the question: Why does V see sexual acts including Belkar Amusing?!

EDIT: Page Four.... this is the closest I've ever been to Page One. ^_^

[EmeraldFire]

HAHAHA, wild empathy check!

great stuff

[Aerysil1]

V is almost as good at rationalizing his conclusions as many people I've known.

[Max_Sinister]

Now that was the reason for the k- , er, the Event! I never really understood Belkar's motivation, but this is a good explanation.

[Saithis Bladewing]

I've always stated that V was my favourite character, and this just reinforces my beliefs! ;D

[Seffbasilisk]

Hermione Granger is under 'Lust'? WHY!? I would totally put her under 'Hate'.

(great comic btw)

[Platinum_Mongoose]

Aw, poor Warwick Davis. I guess his portrayal of a halfling-equivilent was enough to earn Belkar's eternal enmity.

[wagomorph]

Warwick Davis under Lust? Haley Starshine? Does she count as Daikini?

[Saithis Bladewing]

Warwick Davis under Lust? Haley Starshine? Does she count as Daikini?

Warwick Davis was under hate, not lust. <_<;

[StarWidget]

Awesome comic - way to tie points together.

I have an alternate theory to the event - perhaps V was always on the "hate" side, but with enough alcohol maybe Belkar will lust after anyone! ;)

Though, V's smarter than I am... I'll go with her explanation.

[UtherSRG]

One of the neat things about discussion boards is people answer questions. And then people can read them. Your question was answered on page 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=display;board=comics;num=1154252845 ;start=15#23) of the discussion:

Mrs Buttersworth is the icon for a brand of maple syrup.

Not once, but twice (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=display;board=comics;num=1154252845 ;start=15#26).

And thanks to the Magic of the Internet, you can also search (http://images.google.com/images?q=mrs.%20butterworth) for terms from the Oracle (http://www.google.com/search?q=mrs.%20butterworth) and receive many (http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_mrsbutterworth.htm) answers (http://www.pinnaclefoodscorp.com/WebPortals/Default.aspx?tabid=35).

(Yes, the number of messages in a thread get to be rather overwhelming. :))
Well, the number of posts asking the same thing is overwhelming. :)

[Deckmaster]

Great comic, Rich.

Muskrat Love.

[xyzchyx]

Amusing... but I think V is unnecessarily complicating the issue.

Application of Occam's razor might suggest that "The Event" occured not because of any particular latent feelings Belkar might posess, but simply because Belkar was completely and totally plastered, and was therefore just not himself. Belkar probably even would have kissed a kobold if one had been at the appropriate place at that exact moment.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Do you really think V would ever not unnecessarilly complicate the issue?

a) He's a wizard.
b) Would "this is my revenge for what he did when he was wasted" have required nearly as lengthy an explanation?

Great and probably faulty rationalizations by the way.

"Wild empathy check! WILD EMPATHY CHECK!"

[Daedrous Avari]

Lol Hermione on the Lust list lol

[Lord Iames Osari]

Mrs. Butterworth? [falls off chair laughing] Well, I guess Aunt Jemima really isn't what I'd call "sexy"...and lusting after the Morton Salt girl would be too close too pedophilia (although I do admit I like her little yellow boots)....

Although, V, dude: prejudiced much? I mean, if I were to publicly espouse such a theory about any ethnic/political/religious/gender/sexual preference group, my guestbook would explode from the daily hate spamming....

I think V's theory applies only to Belkar, not halflings in general. Okay, just looked at the comic. V does refer to 'the halfling'. However, the wording is ambiguous enough that I believe V to be referring only to 'the halfling' in the party, and not to all halflings.

[ref]

Vaarsuvius is not a very good scientist... Where is the control Belkar with placebo explosions? 8) :P ;D ::)

Interesting comic, But as noted before, Belkar is more complicated than that.

Anyway, it was fun, and that's what counts. Good job!

[silvadel]

He could always clone belkar -- but who could deal with TWO Belkars? Of course if you put 2 Belkars in a room together only 1 would walk out alive.

What would be really funny would be a naruto shadow clone jitsu of Belkar.... 50 Belkars all interacting with each other would be a scream.

[beholder]

WILD EMPATHY CHECK! WILD EMPATHY CHECK!!!!
oh my god
that was the best one for ages giant.keep it up

[Holy_Knight]

Really liked this one, especially Belkar's list! Did anyone else think that it was weird to have Hermione Granger, though, given that "Larry Gardener" has been in the strip? (Still very funny, of course. :) )

[Messy]

Since when has Belkar shown lust towards Haley? :o

So, this brings up another point:

Was Belkar drunk and had no idea what he was doing when ki- doing the Event?

Or was his hate/lust mind going with lust for V because it couldn't hate him after being saved from Miko!?

[nveinus]

ah, we knew a wizard did it. now we know why the wizard did it.

and hermoine and haley under lust, guess belkar has a thing for redheads

[Messy]

ah, we knew a wizard did it. now we know why the wizard did it.

and hermoine and haley under lust, guess belkar has a thing for redheads
I think he has a bigger "thing" for whores in general... ;)

[Brother_Hood]

V's comments about Halflings only having a "proto-brain" ruined the strip for me. I know it's a comic, but the real world parallel isn't something I can ignore.

Perhaps better next time? Hope so.

[Felinoid]

So, anyone want to guess at the odds of Belkar making a successful Wild Empathy check?
Bah, he'll fail. But there's always STABBITY DEATH! ;D I bet we'll see that muskrat on Belkar's dagger like the time he killed a rat to try to level up. Unless, of course, Rich can't draw a muskrat. ;)

[fractal]

I'd be interested to see how Elan and Durkon fall into that classification. It's safe to say that Belkar doesn't lust after either of them (I think), but he's also been dismayed when each of them was lost, and has never expressed a desire to hurt them (when personal gain wasn't involved).

On a milder note, I'd say he likes Elan and dislikes Durkon, but it's hard to hate someone who heals you all the time.

[fractal]

V's comments about Halflings only having a "proto-brain" ruined the strip for me. I know it's a comic, but the real world parallel isn't something I can ignore.
I think V just meant Belkar in particular, not halflings in general.

[KuH]

Someone a few pages back asked why a muskrat?

Because furry halfling feet look just like a muskrat ... apparently. :D

[Blackeagle]

He could always clone belkar -- but who could deal with TWO Belkars? Of course if you put 2 Belkars in a room together only 1 would walk out alive.


It's been done. (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=63)

But I wonder, did V really charm that muskrat or does humping Belkar's leg beat working retail (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=138)?

[Wiggle]

Regrettably, regrettably has been spelt regretably - hope Rich notices and changes it for us pedants out there

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=regrettably

[Winged One]

Laughing...so...hard...can't...breathe...XD

[Kish]

"The halfling" when speaking specifically of Belkar is quite different from "halflings."

Hermione's not a redhead. Messy, I'm not sure if you're trying to imply that Haley and Hermione are whores--if you are, ??? ??? and ???

[Varian7]

LOL Love V and the charmed muskrat!

[Dark_Warrior]

nice one
hate or lust?
Woot page seven : ;D

[Felistor]

This is the best OOTS we have had for several months.

Vaarsuivus is my hero / herione, no doubt about that!

[BelkarsDagger]

Cure Itchy Wounds!

Priceless. ;D

[The_Kobold_Hero]

Wild Empathy! Oh Gods, Wild Empathy! ;D

[ElfLad]

Warwick Davis was the funniest part for me. Although it would have been funnier to see him in the lust category...

[Solmage]

Hahahhaahahahahhaah

Oh that? That's just for my personal amusement...

[Shea Landford]

Good one. Interesting theory there, V. I liked the Cure Itchy wounds. But I wonder, does this mean that Belkar hates all men? Unless he has certain secrets, he must. Hmmmmmm.

[Bilbo27]

That bilbo tool---Hah!

I think my brain also works in the hate/lust system

could I be related to Belkar?

HMMMMM?

[HypnoticMonk]

This one was too good for me to even come close to describing how much I loved it.

(and yes Hermione Granger is a cutie[said in a totally non-letcherous way])

[Illsbane]

Dear Lord ... ^^; Is it wrong to laugh at such unbridled sadism?

[UtherSRG]

This one was too good for me to even come close to describing how much I loved it.

(and yes Hermione Granger is a cutie[said in a totally non-letcherous way])
*shrugs* I'll say it in a lecherous way. ;D

[The Demented One]

I'm detecting large amounts of win and good in the vicinity of this strip.

[LtNOWIS]

Another excellent comic, Giant!


Since when has Belkar shown lust towards Haley? :o


http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=35

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=123

[Valda, Adlav and Samiam: the Jacked-Up Trinity]

This is the most effed up strip to date. If anyone can pull out one of a more screwed nature I will buy you a pizza.

[Holy_Knight]

This is the most effed up strip to date. If anyone can pull out one of a more screwed nature I will buy you a pizza.

More Effed Up Strip (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=301)

I like meat on my pizza, and no vegetables or anchovies.

[Luklan]

Woo! page 8!

*long time lurker, first time poster*

And it's all because this strip made my Monday Morning :D

Adn yes, unfortunately for Belkar (as someone else pointed out), Wild Empathy only makes animals friendlier towards you, so that isn't going to work... ;D

And, he'd probably failed it anyway (unless he 'Took 20', but he can't do that since he's obviously 'under duress' :P)

love V's idea behind belkar's brain to.. heh

I give it Three LOLs and a ROFL :D

(edited straight away: maybe that's Belkar's plan? if he gets enough critical fails, the muskrat will start hating him, and stop doing naughty things to his feet?)

[Fillbert]

Absolutely fantastic!!! Giant's best comic in a while. I loved it from begining to end. That Bilbo Tool, Mrs. Butterworth, Cure Itchy wounds all of it great. But nothing can top the WILD EMPATHY CHECK!!!!!! eewwwww that's probably going to leave a mark.

[fwiffo]

Is there even a way to charm a Muskrat this way? I thought that charm spells were a lot less specific about being able to control the action that you want charmed creature to perform.

On another note, I find it amazing how many people think that this is a commentary on how Belkar thinks. This is a good reflection on how Vaarsuvius perceives those around him, but it has nothing to do with Belkar as such.

[charik]

Mein Gotts in Himmel! This was definately a guffaw comic, especially the last few frames. "That's for my personal amusement." ;D

And for the people who say Belkar's 'Event' was "just being drunk", people don't do drunk what they wouldn't want to do sober.

[Nekkira]

:D Loved this one!!

[Eldritch Knight]

BRILLIANCE!

[Dudukain]

Well, that clears that up.

Wait...No it doesn't.

[Flame_Drake]

Too funny... Can't breath...

Drake

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Err, wow...

This strip has caused a reaction with me I haven't quite experienced before with the other comics. I don't know whether to laugh or be honestly disturbed...

*decides to combine them and chuckles very nervously*

[xyzchyx]

Mein Gotts in Himmel! This was definately a guffaw comic, especially the last few frames. "That's for my personal amusement." ;D

And for the people who say Belkar's 'Event' was "just being drunk", people don't do drunk what they wouldn't want to do sober.There is some truth to this, but it's also true that if a person is plastered enough, they won't even really realize exactly what their surroundings really are. He may have very well wanted to kiss someone that night, but being as drunk as he was he probably couldn't even tell V from the cute chick he was dancing with earlier.

Being so stoned that you can't recognize your surroundings doesn't necessarily happen with everybody, but it's common enough that it's a reasonable explanation.

[Tobimaro]

Great comic, Rich.

Muskrat Love.

Oh man. And I have to admit that I actually remember that song. :P

Anyways, great comic, Rich. I really liked the Wild Empathy Check. And my cleric would like to learn that Cure Itchy Wounds spell.

This comic was good for several laughs.

Grovar

[cyberchihuahua]

This one is going into my top 10.

Mr Giant, I wonder how long/how many drafts it took you to get the entire dialogue for this strip down. It was very tight, and it flowed perfectly. Its a struggle for me to write nearly so well.

[Alfryd]

New comic is up.
Hilarity.
This explains *so much.*

As an academic, Vaarsuvius should know better. A better explanation is that Belkar is chaotic and doesn't believe in restraining his behaviour or attitudes.

I'd be interested to see how Elan and Durkon fall into that classification.
Likewise. If nothing else, he must have varying *degrees* of hate and lust.

Perhaps once she's done studying Belkar V can devote some fieldwork to Elan. Possibly placing him in an eleborate Maze spell with a lollipop at the end and then timing him.
Elan would cry, thus negating any useful information from the experiment.

[Messy]

"The halfling" when speaking specifically of Belkar is quite different from "halflings."

Hermione's not a redhead. Messy, I'm not sure if you're trying to imply that Haley and Hermione are whores--if you are, ??? ??? and ???
I'm just saying Belkar likes whores in general, not at all implementing that either of them are whores.

Oh, and whoever quoted me about Belkar lusting for Haley, in both those strips, EVERYONE is doing it- not just Belkar. I don't really think it counts.

[UtherSRG]

More Effed Up Strip (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=301)I aree... that's certainly more "effed up" than the current strip.

[Kish]

On another note, I find it amazing how many people think that this is a commentary on how Belkar thinks. This is a good reflection on how Vaarsuvius perceives those around him, but it has nothing to do with Belkar as such.
Most people appear to think Vaarsuvius is right. S/he makes a good case.

[Messy]

Most people appear to think Vaarsuvius is right. S/he makes a good case.
Oh my! Kish, don't post again for a while, this is your 1337th post! Your 1337 post! 8)

2 spells we'd like to know the stats to. Evan's spiked tentacles of forced intrusion and now cure itchy wounds. ;D

Edit: Sheesh, just noticed, Winged One don't post either - 6000 post count!

[cleric_of_BANJO]

awesome strip giant!! hehe, "that was for my own amusement"...

as for which category durkon and elan fall into, I think V made it perfectly clear there are only 2 categories. If V can go into lust, then durkon and elan can surely fit into hate. after all, If he had the chance with no consencuences, I think he would kill them both.

[Ravens_Wing]

interesting theory .... we must put this through further testing

[Antina]

Who says Vs interpretation has to be correct?

Maybe Belkar really has fallen in love... *giggle* ::)

[Pvednes]

That model would clearly put Elan in the "Lust" column.

[Joseph_Awesome]

This strip mad me of sad.

[Puck]

Ha ha! The war between Belkar and V is on, again!

Great comic, Rich!

[battleburn]

as for which category durkon and elan fall into, I think V made it perfectly clear there are only 2 categories. If V can go into lust, then durkon and elan can surely fit into hate. after all, If he had the chance with no consencuences, I think he would kill them both.
That model would clearly put Elan in the "Lust" column. I agree, Elan isn't in the hate collumn. Elan is the only person in the group with which Belkar can have fun, without killing the person (boobies, fun with crayon). So Elan must be on the lust side.
Durkon really doesn't interact with Belkar so I just don't think Belkar has put him anywhere yet.
I think V's theory is missing one category. The neutral collumn. Durkon and all new persons fall under that category until they do something that makes him hate them or "lust" them.

[KayJay]

Belkar has a thing for Haley? Hmm, the possibilities :)

Good comic!

[Lauren]

*shrugs* I'll say it in a lecherous way. ;D

Me too.

I had to Google Warwick Davis, but laughed my arse off when I found out who he was.

I really, really like this strip. V is my favourite character and this was brilliantly executed.

[Freelance Henchman]

LOL @ Belkar!

[Kanashimi]

So does this proto-brain mean Belkar thinks in Binary?

Also, Belkar lusting after V . . . Shudder

[inanimate_DM]

just echoing other people here, but "that bilbo tool"

hee hee hee ;D

[diaglo]

i'm gonna be singing "Muskrat love" until Gen Con.

Rich you beautiful hand and halfer

[Blaznak]

Oh... This one was hilarious. Varsuvius' theory is SO good its more than plausible! Funny funny stuff... Mrs. Butterworth? Heee heee... That Bilbo Tool? Heee heee..... Muskrat? Bwahahahahaaa....

Nicely done!
Bravo...

[Leatherman]

Belkar has a thing for Haley? Hmm, the possibilities :)

Good comic!

So.. Many.... Ways... WRONG! I wouldnt wish that on an enemy, well mayby my ex-wife, but definitly not Haley.


Another great comic Giant. I will never be able to make another wild empathy check again without chuckling to myself :)

[Albion]

So.. Many.... Ways... WRONG! I wouldnt wish that on an enemy, well mayby my ex-wife, but definitly not Haley.


I guess Belkar has a thing for all hot chicks, so woe to all those... remember when Roy became female? Not to change the subject or anything.

PS. GREAT strip(like top 5%).

[Wikkin]

I read "Mrs. Butterworth? WTF?" As "Mrs. Butterworth? What the...?" or "Mrs. Butterworth? Why the...?" Never as "Mrs. Butterworth? Who the...?"



One of the neat things about discussion boards is people answer questions. And then people can read them. Your question was answered on page 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=display;board=comics;num=1154252845 ;start=15#23) of the discussion:

Mrs Buttersworth is the icon for a brand of maple syrup.

Not once, but twice (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?action=display;board=comics;num=1154252845 ;start=15#26).

And thanks to the Magic of the Internet, you can also search (http://images.google.com/images?q=mrs.%20butterworth) for terms from the Oracle (http://www.google.com/search?q=mrs.%20butterworth) and receive many (http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_mrsbutterworth.htm) answers (http://www.pinnaclefoodscorp.com/WebPortals/Default.aspx?tabid=35).

(Yes, the number of messages in a thread get to be rather overwhelming. :))

[Leatherman]

I guess Belkar has a thing for all hot chicks, so woe to all those... remember when Roy became female? Not to change the subject or anything.

PS. GREAT strip(like top 5%).


Is it just me, or wasnt belkar just doing it to mess with Roy, cause he knew it was him?

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=244

[charik]

Oh man. And I have to admit that I actually remember that song. :P
And as joke within a joke within a joke, do you remember that they performed that song for President and Mrs Ford at the White House? :D

Oh, and Messy, if the fact that others lust for Haley disqualifies Belkar's own lust, does that mean his hatred of Miko is likewise disqualified? After all, it's fairly clear that everyone else in the group hates her too.

[Messy]

And as joke within a joke within a joke, do you remember that they performed that song for President and Mrs Ford at the White House? :D

Oh, and Messy, if the fact that others lust for Haley disqualifies Belkar's own lust, does that mean his hatred of Miko is likewise disqualified? After all, it's fairly clear that everyone else in the group hates her too.
Not at all. I'm saying that although Belkar lusts after every woman in general (except Miko), if he had a real brain he wouldn't specifically lust after Haley. It would just be too wrong for the comic. :o

[Kish]

Oh, and Messy, if the fact that others lust for Haley disqualifies Belkar's own lust, does that mean his hatred of Miko is likewise disqualified? After all, it's fairly clear that everyone else in the group hates her too.
"No one" still isn't a nice thing to call poor Durkon.

[Adeptus]

Wow!

I mean, just... wow.

This one just made it into the unsorted top five OotS strips ever :D

The theory about Belkar is archetypical Varsuuvious, and brilliantly funny even on the third reading. The timing works and even the silly second punch-line of wild empathy is great.

And how geeky a fan am I? So geeky that I researched mrs. butterworth, since the product isn't one that is sold here in scandinavia :D

Kudos Rich!

[Lilly]

That is just, awesome.

Really freakin' awesome.

The more I hear from V the more I resemble V.

[BlythraB]

heheheheheheheheheehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehe heheheheheheehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehe heheheehehehehehehehehehehehehhehehehehehehehehehe ehehehehehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheheheeheheh ehehehehehehehehehhehahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah aahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahaha...


lusting after Mrs. Butterworth... that just made my day!

[Grey Watcher]

Y'know, I think V's overanalyzing the situation. For starters, I don't think Belkar's brain, however primitive it may be, is that organized. Secondly, when V prevented Miko from killing Belkar, s/he interrupted Belkar's plot to make Miko fall from grace, prompting Belkar to be even angrier at V than usual. Thirdly, V must not go drinking that often, because, seriously, Belkar was DRUNK! He might not have even recognized V as V, he might thought he was kissing Hermione Granger or something.

[Spiky]

This is the greatest comic on the web. It is about to supplant Calvin & Hobbes for the 3rd best of all time in my world. Rich, just awesome!

Little surprised there wasn't a little "--charm" aside comment by V for the spell in panel 10. But still just great.

[Evik]

Ha hahahaaaa
OMG that was hilarious!
WILD EMPATHY CHECK!!!!
whew ......must ......breathe

[battleburn]

just reread the comic and...
Arent all cure spells, touch spells.
Durkon heals V from a distance

[Luvlein]

The feat "reach spell" allows touch spells to be cast from a distance.

[Goofy]

just reread the comic and...
Arent all cure spells, touch spells.
Durkon heals V from a distance

Well, sometimes, for the sake of entertainment, specifics can be eschewed.

[WampaX]

just reread the comic and...
Arent all cure spells, touch spells.
Durkon heals V from a distance

Plus, who's to say that "Cure Itchy Wounds" isn't a ranged spell? All the current evidence points to it being one. :P

[flamestrike]

Plus, who's to say that "Cure Itchy Wounds" isn't a ranged spell? All the current evidence points to it being one. :P

In fact, since Cure Itchy Wounds sounds like a cure to poison ivy if there ever was one, it's worth making it a ranged spell! :o

:)

[5tephen]

HA!

Man, V is so in denial.

[Doug_Lampert]

just reread the comic and...
Arent all cure spells, touch spells.
Durkon heals V from a distanceAll the Mass Cure spells (levels 5-8) are ranged. So there are ranged cures (others have mentioned the reach spell feat). Additionally Durkon is within 5', so he may have just tapped V right before the panel we see or right afterward. Casting the spell takes roughly 6 seconds, but the actual touch of a willing target is nearly instant.

[theswarm]

"The Event" so typical for V ;D
Cure Ichy Wounds could be a range spell if the Giant says so (He made it up)

[charik]

That is just, awesome.

Really freakin' awesome.

The more I hear from V the more I resemble V.


Great, a LN mod with tendencies towards NE. ::)

One important difference, though: you don't ramble nearly as much as V ;)

[Messy]

The feat "reach spell" allows touch spells to be cast from a distance.
Cure Itchy Wounds must be ranged, as Durkon doesn't have this feat. Remember when Elan was naked,

Roy: So he'll cast cat's grace on you to make it better.
Roy: ... What are you waiting for?
Durkon: It's a touch spell.

Obviously he doesn't have ranged touch spells.

Oh, and Charik, V is NE? I'd put him at True N. But yes, Lilly definitely doesn't ramble even close to as much. Or use as many big words. ;)

[Sol]

Cure Itchy Wounds must be ranged, as Durkon doesn't have this feat. Remember when Elan was naked,

Roy: So he'll cast cat's grace on you to make it better.
Roy: ... What are you waiting for?
Durkon: It's a touch spell.

Obviously he doesn't have ranged touch spells.


He didn't then, but that was over 300 comics ago - it's quite likely they've leveled since then and he may well have taken that feat as a direct response to the bardic nudity scenario.

[The Glitter Ninja]

I read "Mrs. Butterworth? WTF?" As "Mrs. Butterworth? What the...?" or "Mrs. Butterworth? Why the...?" Never as "Mrs. Butterworth? Who the...?"



Yeah, I think you're right, Dugray seemed to be pondering the reason why Mrs. B was on the list, not who Mrs. B was. Although earlier in the thread someone did ask WHO Mrs. B was, so maybe that's who rosebud was responding to? Thread drift has claimed many a brave responder's best intentions.

I think we can all agree, the important thing here is that Bilbo is a tool. Heh. ;)

[firepup]

i loved v's opinion of belkar's mentality

[Messy]

He didn't then, but that was over 300 comics ago - it's quite likely they've leveled since then and he may well have taken that feat as a direct response to the bardic nudity scenario.

That's true. But he may have healed people since then, and since healing is touch, it may have shown that. Me, being lazy as I am, require other people to look it up and link comics where it shows Durkon healing someone. ;)

[LTDave]

I am quite new, so feel free to ignore anything I may or may not say.

I have enjoyed reading all the comics over the last few weeks when I should have been working.
Excellent.
Better than many novels I have read.

For me, the thing that stands out in this comic is when V tells Durkon that they both have a true sentient brain (unlike Belkar).

Would an Elf think that a Dwarf had a true sentient brain?
Wouldn't an Elf consider everything but an Elf to have an inferior brain?
Or are Elves a bit less arrogant in this universe?

[Felinoid]

Would an Elf think that a Dwarf had a true sentient brain?
Wouldn't an Elf consider everything but an Elf to have an inferior brain?
Or are Elves a bit less arrogant in this universe?
The specism is present typically only in sheltered elves (and dwarves, for that matter); those who have spent their entire lives among only their own kind are the most likely to spew those kind of comments. There are naturally exceptions, for rather narcissistic or nationalistic elves/dwarves, but most elves/dwarves that have had actual experiences with the other races are smart enough to see the fallacy in such generalizations.

[charik]

Oh, and Charik, V is NE? I'd put him at True N. But yes, Lilly definitely doesn't ramble even close to as much. Or use as many big words. ;)
Not what I said. I said "LN with tendencies towards NE." Applied to both V and Lilly. Not Lilly is LN with tendencies towards V's NE.

[GM_West]

Awesome comic! Love the Wild Empathy screams from Belkar as the muskrat does the unthinkable to the diminutive fellow.

Still though... I wonder at V's 'logical' exercise regarding Belkar. Sounds like he/she is trying hard to categorize the halfling's errant kiss when perhaps logic had nothing to do with it.

Time will tell, I suppose, but methinks that we shouldn't rule out a Vaarsuvius and Belkar relationship sometime in the future. As repulsive and vulgar as that sounds... *shudders* ;)

[Messy]

Vaarsuvius and Belkar
Those words do not belong together. *ruffles through a dictionary* Is it proper to even use that phrase in a sentence?

[Leatherman]

Those words do not belong together. *ruffles through a dictionary* Is it proper to even use that phrase in a sentence?

I believe its only proper if the sentnce reads
"Vaarsuvius and Belkar are trying to kill each other"

Anything else is.... *shudders*... unthinkable.

[Flintyoungblood]

Long time reader, first time poster, so you'll have to fogive me chillun, while I sermonize and get my nerd on.

1. Belkar and V is never happening, Elves don't willingly date/marry outside their own species (they mention this in the description of halfelf, the character is almost invariably the result of rape). Plus V is married, in D&D that means something.

2. While I sympathise with V's plight, if V really wanted to correct Belkar's problems there is something to be done. In comic 58 V theorized Belkar's wisdom score is one normally reserved for Lemmings.

Wisdom:
The ability that describes a character's willpower, common sense, perception, and intuition.

When under the influence of Owl's wisdom Belkar's attitude toward life in general improved, so much so an alignment change may have been forced from CE to CN or even CG. All it would take is Owl's Wisdom + Permanancy. However this would rob us of our homicidal little halfling so I doubt it will ever come to pass.

[The Glyphstone]

Long time reader, first time poster, so you'll have to fogive me chillun, while I sermonize and get my nerd on.

Elves don't willingly date/marry outside their own species (they mention this in the description of halfelf, the character is almost invariably the result of rape).
..

Taht's odd...I can't find any mention of rape anywhere in the PHB half-elf description. The first sentence of the half-elf says "humans and elves sometimes wed, the elf attracted to the human's energy and the human to the elf's grace". Maybe you're thinking of half-orcs?

[Flintyoungblood]

Hmmm, possibly, altho I had not meant that to be taken as an exact quote, suffice to say, if the pregnancy was consensual the elf in question is shunned from his/her respective society is the impression given. "Sometimes" hardly implies all the time, and there seems to be an awful lot of halfelves in the D&D universe. In the end it comes down to longevity, elves have it, humans and halflings don't.

[Flash]

LOL

So B has a thing for small, plump, vaguely woman-shaped plastic bottles?

Too funny!

[Oppolo]

I've just had a thought... Belkar doesn't hate Elan... (see the rescue Elan / Bandit camp arc)


I see slash fanfics in the near future.

[Messy]

I've just had a thought... Belkar doesn't hate Elan... (see the rescue Elan / Bandit camp arc)


I see slash fanfics in the near future.
Well...it's either hate or lust. I don't think it's lust :o but it might be hate. Just because he does hate someone, though, doesn't mean he can't defend them sometimes. Besides, he said he only wanted to save Elan because he made him laugh ("Roy has boobies").

[sakusha]

I love this comic for all the reasons already mentioned, but also because I've managed to read it every single day since it's been posted (looking for a new comic) and I STILL die laughing every time I read it. That is true comedy gold!

Edit: Although I admit to having never heard any Muskrat Love song ... :-[

[Kish]

Hmmm, possibly, altho I had not meant that to be taken as an exact quote, suffice to say, if the pregnancy was consensual the elf in question is shunned from his/her respective society is the impression given.
Quite frankly, I just reread the half-elf description in the PHB, and neither that impression nor the one about rape are there. It says most half-elves are conceived consensually (inside marriage, even). It says half-elves do well among both elves and humans. I don't know where you're getting what you're saying, but it's not from the Player's Handbook.

[cleric_of_BANJO]

I will repeat the exact thing I said before. V might not be 100% correct, but if s/he was, then this is my theory. Durkon would go under hate, because he simply can't go under lust. Elan would also go under hate, because belkar has tried to kill him a few times (for xp is one example). I know belkar seems like he doesnt hate elan, but think about it. Roy saved belkars a... um, life many times, yet he is still hated, so if all elan did was make belkar laugh, why would belkar lust him? that would make about as much sense as belkar lusting the charmed muskrat ;D.

[Dark_Stalion]

Hehehehe ho ho ha ha

Edit: Sorry, couldn't resist. Roflmao hurts if you don't clean up the pins you just nocked over.

;)

[Felinoid]

/me whips out his 2e source books
Actually, it's a bit of both, depending on the setting and community. PHB: "The reaction of humans and elves to half-elves ranges from intrigued fascination to outright bigotry."

The CBoE (Complete Book of Elves) goes into further detail, but it simply elaborates on the point that it varies. One interesting thing in it is that some subraces are less likely than others. Grey elves are naturally arrogant and narcissistic, and drow have a tendency to just kill other races. It also seems to change tone about halfway through those two pages, talking about war crimes and their product being shunned, which is jarringly disparate from the text to that point. But in the end, I think it simply sums up to: depends.

EDIT: Hmm, top of the last two pages. Odd coincidence.

[Kish]

/me whips out his 2e source books
Actually,
2ed? :P

[taraxia]

Hmmm, possibly, altho I had not meant that to be taken as an exact quote, suffice to say, if the pregnancy was consensual the elf in question is shunned from his/her respective society is the impression given. "Sometimes" hardly implies all the time, and there seems to be an awful lot of halfelves in the D&D universe. In the end it comes down to longevity, elves have it, humans and halflings don't.

Shunned, but to what degree? I don't think the idea that human/elf weddings lead to the elf being Banished For Life is actually true in modern D&D. At most they just look at the elf a little askance, the way some people might look at an interracial marriage now (as opposed to the way people would've looked at an interracial marriage in the 1950s).

[Felinoid]

2ed? :P

Meh. It's what I know, and it provides another perspective. Feel free to ignore it if it suits you, but also think of the real world reactions to interracial couples and how it varies there too, depending on the community. I can see subraces having a majority viewpoint, but an entire race in accord? Eh, I suppose it's possible, but...meh.

[Kish]

Remember, unlike humans (real-world or D&D), elves actually have alignment tendencies. Evil qualities like racism should be much less common in elves than in humans.

[Doug_Lampert]

Remember, unlike humans (real-world or D&D), elves actually have alignment tendencies. Evil qualities like racism should be much less common in elves than in humans.Especially since racism is more characteristic of LE than CE. Chaotics tend to judge individuals and dislike generalizations, Lawfuls tend to like hard and fast rules. So Usually CG elves are on the opposite side of the alignment description of the alignment most likely to be racist.

In the SRD allignment section the only place the word Race or Racism occurs is in the section on LE:
... He is comfortable in a hierarchy and would like to rule, but is willing to serve. He condemns others not according to their actions but according to race, religion, homeland, or social rank. He is loath to break laws or promises.

[Valda, Adlav and Samiam: the Jacked-Up Trinity]

I just thought of something. If V's theory holds and Belkar's capable of only lust and hate, Belkar has to be bisexual. Think about it. He certainly doesn't hate Elan and he's shown no signs of hating Durkon. Does that mean he lusts after Elan and Durkon?

[Messy]

I just thought of something. If V's theory holds and Belkar's capable of only lust and hate, Belkar has to be bisexual. Think about it. He certainly doesn't hate Elan and he's shown no signs of hating Durkon. Does that mean he lusts after Elan and Durkon?
You say he's shown no signs of hating Elan or Durkon. Yet, he's also shown no signs of lusting after them. Your argument works both ways.

And besides, we've seen Belkar lusting after women, and we know he loves his whores, but have we ever even seen a hint towards the fact that he's bisexual? I doubt it.

[The Glyphstone]

No wonder the Giant doesn't read the boards anymore....this discussion is sooooo wrong.

Now someone's going to write+post a Belkar/Elan/Xykon/Mary Sue furry slashfic, I know it.... :-X :-/ :-X

[Valda, Adlav and Samiam: the Jacked-Up Trinity]

Wow... it's a sure sign that I spend WAY to much time on fanfiction.net that I understood every word in Charik's post. That's just wrong...

I've never heard of anyone writing OoTS fanfics, crappy or otherwise (and despite the general consensus here on GitP there is an otherwise). In fact, the only webcomic that has fics on FF.net is Inverloch (http://www.seraph-inn.com) and that's the #1 webcomic on the Internet.



You say he's shown no signs of hating Elan or Durkon. Yet, he's also shown no signs of lusting after them. Your argument works both ways.

And besides, we've seen Belkar lusting after women, and we know he loves his whores, but have we ever even seen a hint towards the fact that he's bisexual? I doubt it.

We know he doesn't hate Elan. He seems to like him in fact. Plus, he's never shown any signs of lusting after Haley. Or Gortak for that matter. I'm sorry. I just had to say that. :P

[Steward]

/me whips out his 2e source books
Actually, it's a bit of both, depending on the setting and community. PHB: "The reaction of humans and elves to half-elves ranges from intrigued fascination to outright bigotry."


Of course, that's for NPCs. PCs are most often pretty blase about half-elves, and look down on them not because of their hybrid status but because they have crappy racial powers.


Plus, he's never shown any signs of lusting after Haley.

Never? Are you sure about that?

[charik]

Wow... it's a sure sign that I spend WAY to much time on fanfiction.net that I understood every word in Charik's post. That's just wrong...
??? Every word in my post? Now I'm confused. How do any of my posts get more meaningful by visiting fanfiction.net (where I've never been)?

[Lilly]

No wonder the Giant doesn't read the boards anymore....this discussion is sooooo wrong.

Now someone's going to write+post a Belkar/Elan/Xykon/Mary Sue furry slashfic, I know it.... :-X :-/ :-X

You've just cursed that into existance, I hope you know that. *shudders and cries for her fandom*

[[Insert Neat Username Here]]

Now someone's going to write+post a Belkar/Elan/Xykon/Mary Sue furry slashfic, I know it....
/Vomit

[Niskers]

hehehe

Cure Itchy Wounds

hehehe

[humanpylon]

2ed? :P

I actually like 2nd edition better than 3rd. They spent more time explaining how things fit into the world instead of quantifying everything to numbers, although I'm sure lots of people would make the same argument for liking 3rd edition. But look especially at the monster manuals. 2nd ed. spends a page on each monster, talking about habits and ecology. 3rd edition gives stats, then says :this is what it is and here's how it will kill you. 2nd ed. is a much more interesting read.

As far as the comic goes...if they list Warwick Davis and Bilbo, they should have put ewoks too.

[Kish]

I actually like 2nd edition better than 3rd. They spent more time explaining how things fit into the world instead of quantifying everything to numbers, although I'm sure lots of people would make the same argument for liking 3rd edition. But look especially at the monster manuals. 2nd ed. spends a page on each monster, talking about habits and ecology. 3rd edition gives stats, then says :this is what it is and here's how it will kill you. 2nd ed. is a much more interesting read.
That may be--though I don't agree personally--but 3.5ed is what matters to OotS.

[humanpylon]

That may be--though I don't agree personally--but 3.5ed is what matters to OotS.

Oh I know ;) I was just defending my poor downtrodden second edition. Nobody loves it. :'(

[Felinoid]

Oh I know ;) I was just defending my poor downtrodden second edition. Nobody loves it. :'(
/me points at his title


<--------

[cleric_of_BANJO]

nobody gets it, huh? Belkar doesnt lust elan!! read this carefully. there are only 2 categories to put elan into. One of them would require belkar to be bisexual, which would be wrong, and very unlikely. That one is ruled out. Just because belkar hasnt hated elan THAT much, doesnt mean he automatically has to lust him. now V, belkar's primitive brain might not be intelligent enough to know V's gender, so it basically took a wild guess and imagined V was female. Either that, or the few brain cells that werent killed by the 10 beers were too busy singing Irish drinking songs to command belkars body. Basically, I think the beer took over belkar.

[battleburn]

V's theory is just flawed, because I don't believe Belkar hates all males.
For women this might be a good theory, for men it's different
For men there is hate and there is an undefined feeling which just means he won't go out of his way to kill you, just when the opportunity arrises or when it is good for the punchline. (Kill Elan for Exp.)
Belkar hates Roy and is (undefined) towards Elan and Durkon.
Anyone has any suggestions to how to call this state of mind that is sofar undefined?

[Haggis_McCrablice]

We know [Belkar] doesn't hate Elan. He seems to like him in fact.
Well, he's never tried to outright harm him, anyway. If he did, I think the fans would howl in outrage. He's a sweet, simple guy. To hurt Elan would be an act akin to kicking a brain-damaged puppy. Let's just hope Elan's never done something to make Belkar's crap list.

I guess you could call his feelings towards the bard and the dwarf simply "ambivalence". He and Durkon do share a love of good ale, which is really where the problem started. Would Belkar be childish enough to try to pin The Incident on him, d'ye think?

[charik]

/me points at his title


<--------
Is that what it says! I've been reading that as "Ze lovin' cat". :D

[Leatherman]

SNIP
Would Belkar be childish enough to try to pin The Incident on him, d'ye think?

According to the comic, it appears Belkar has no recollection of the "Incedent", therefore he cannot pin it on anyone.

[humanpylon]

Is that what it says! I've been reading that as "Ze lovin' cat". :D

Actually so did I! So now Felinoid has ruined his reputation as the french suave feline of love...

[Lilly]

Oh shoot, now I hear the pepe le pew voice for felinoid.

"Ohhoho, come here my sweet second edition, and let me love you!"

[[Insert Neat Username Here]]

I actually like 2nd edition better than 3rd. They spent more time explaining how things fit into the world instead of quantifying everything to numbers, although I'm sure lots of people would make the same argument for liking 3rd edition. But look especially at the monster manuals. 2nd ed. spends a page on each monster, talking about habits and ecology. 3rd edition gives stats, then says :this is what it is and here's how it will kill you. 2nd ed. is a much more interesting read.

Get the MM4. It's a huge improvement.

[TheTick]

V's theory is just flawed, because I don't believe Belkar hates all males.
For women this might be a good theory, for men it's different
For men there is hate and there is an undefined feeling which just means he won't go out of his way to kill you, just when the opportunity arrises or when it is good for the punchline. (Kill Elan for Exp.)
Belkar hates Roy and is (undefined) towards Elan and Durkon.
Anyone has any suggestions to how to call this state of mind that is sofar undefined?

Well, there should be a null state for people Belkar hasn't met yet. After that, he'll either hate them or lust after them.

[Messy]

"Ohhoho, come here my sweet second edition, and let me love you!"

Now I'm going to have nightmares. :o

Oh, and, in my opinion at least, 3.5 mixed in with a few 3.0 rules is the best way you can play. You say you like 2e better because the Monster Manual gives longer descriptions for ecology and region? That's silly; D&D isn't about reading textbooks. Although maybe it does give a better description for you to help place your monsters, you can just use the improved 3.5/3.0 rules and look in the 2e book for better descriptions.

V could be wrong, but wouldn't that destroy this whole comic's punchline? There has to be only two categories: hate and lust. Therefore everyone has to be placed in one. Unless of course the Giant makes it another punchline somehow that Belkar has more than two catagories in his proto-brain.


Well, there should be a null state for people Belkar hasn't met yet. After that, he'll either hate them or lust after them.

The people Belkar hasn't yet met simply aren't on the list.

[Kish]

Well, he's never tried to outright harm him, anyway.
...

Really?

[cleric_of_BANJO]

thank you messy, I think you are the only one who understood my post.

If this discussion is going to make any sense, we have to base it upon the fact that V is right. until we get more evidence, V's theory is all we know, thus we cant simply think its wrong. If belkar had more than two categories, then it would not be a primitive proto-brain as V suggested. Now, elan, im not sure what category he would go into anymore, but I'm leaning towards hate. After all, thats where the rest of the party except haley (because she's a woman) were before V saved belkars life.

[humanpylon]

. You say you like 2e better because the Monster Manual gives longer descriptions for ecology and region? That's silly; D&D isn't about reading textbooks. Although maybe it does give a better description for you to help place your monsters, you can just use the improved 3.5/3.0 rules and look in the 2e book for better descriptions.



Slight misunderstanding, I said habits and ecology, not habitat and ecology. As in what the monster is actually like and how it behaves. No biggie.

[Winged One]

Well, he's never tried to outright harm him, anyway.
O RLY? (http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/GiantITP/ootscript?SK=124)
*gets shot in the head with bullets from a gun*

[Messy]

Slight misunderstanding, I said habits and ecology, not habitat and ecology. As in what the monster is actually like and how it behaves. No biggie.



I still stand by what I said -- look in the 2e for better descriptions (yes, even of habits), but use the 3.5-with-a-mix-of-3.0 rules, as they are new and in my opinion much better, fairer, and more realistic.

If belkar had more than two categories, then it would not be a primitive proto-brain as V suggested.
Not true. Belkar could still be extremely unintelligent (hence proto-brain), and have more than two categories (or even a whole concept of feelings).