Best Barbarian? (UA and multi included) [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

deathadder99

2017-04-20, 11:40 AM

Depends on what you want it to do.

I'm a huge fan of just Half Orc, Totem Barbarian with GWM. You can try to work Polearm Master in there if you want to, but when I played a Bear Totem, I was getting tons of attacks with my bonus action via GWM.

If you want someone who's tanky and can dish out damage, Totem with GWM is pretty damn good. I'd take Bear at 3, whatever you want at 6 (I like Tiger), and Bear or Eagle at 14th. Most of the UA barbarians have been underwhelming to be honest, and Frenzy is awful because exhaustion is really punishing and hard to get rid of - plus you'll be getting bonus weapon attacks reasonably often.

Pure barbarian is probably worth it for the capstone, though arguments can be made for Rogue/Barb for a brawler type or Fighter/Barb for manoeuvres or more crits. This is especially true if you're likely to get an X Giant's Strength item.

Atomic_Templar

2017-04-20, 11:53 AM

The goal is pretty much a beefy dude that's good at hitting stuff. Was curious about any interactions between abilities/classes that make it better or more interactive.

RulesJD

2017-04-20, 12:01 PM

The goal is pretty much a beefy dude that's good at hitting stuff. Was curious about any interactions between abilities/classes that make it better or more interactive.

Bear Totem Barbarian 3

BM Fighter+

GWM

Congrats, you've built the most effective melee fighter in the game. GWM + Reckless at all times, BM maneuver dice for Precision when you still miss or Riposte the enemy misses you.

Foxhound438

2017-04-20, 12:52 PM

zealot warrior is probably a decent amount better than bear totem, honestly.

Azazel_Unbound

2017-04-20, 12:56 PM

zealot warrior is probably a decent amount better than bear totem, honestly.

Particuarly its capstone

N810

2017-04-20, 12:57 PM

Best at what ...
defense
offence
or support ?

Lombra

2017-04-20, 12:58 PM

I didn' read the UA, but berserker is very much better than totem IMO. You may be even invulnerable to all damage, but once you fail that wisdom save against charm, you and your party are screwed.

Beechgnome

2017-04-20, 12:59 PM

Though inferior in other ways to half-orcs, the Orc Aggressive feature is really great for barbarians.

Being able to dash as a bonus action so you can get close enough to attack far away opponents is a great way to keep your rage. Losing rage because everyone is running away from you is bad.

If you combine with a feat like GWM or Shield Master, you'll pretty much be using a bonus action every turn, either for attacks or to get into position to attack. To optimize this more mobile Barbarian, you might consider Elk Totem's 3rd level feature. Though bear still rocks.

jaappleton

2017-04-20, 12:59 PM

I didn' read the UA, but berserker is very much better than totem IMO. You may be even invulnerable to all damage, but once you fail that wisdom save against charm, you and your party are screwed.

But Exhaustion...

And nothing stops a Half Elf, or any race with Advantage on saves VS Charms, from becoming a Barbarian. +2 Cha, +1 Str, +1 Con, Darkvision? Not bad.

Hrugner

2017-04-20, 01:05 PM

Particuarly its capstone

And the guarantee that you'll live till your capstone with the free resurrection.

Lombra

2017-04-20, 01:08 PM

But Exhaustion...

And nothing stops a Half Elf, or any race with Advantage on saves VS Charms, from becoming a Barbarian. +2 Cha, +1 Str, +1 Con, Darkvision? Not bad.

Exhaustion is painful, but I think that in the long run a berserker is going to be just better at action economy overall.
I totally forgot about that trait. That gives an extra edge to Totem, but fear is anyways bad for the Barbarian.

I love the totem by the way, I especially like the capstone that allows you to fly in 30ft bursts, but if I have to choose who's the best at dealing and absorbing damage, berserker is the man in my opinion.

[I'm also biased because of Guts from the Berserk manga, he's just so cool(even if depending on the arc, you could classify him as a fighter, but there already are many threads about it so yeah.)]

jaappleton

2017-04-20, 01:11 PM

Exhaustion is painful, but I think that in the long run a berserker is going to be just better at action economy overall.
I totally forgot about that trait. That gives an extra edge to Totem, but fear is anyways bad for the Barbarian.

I love the totem by the way, I especially like the capstone that allows you to fly in 30ft bursts, but if I have to choose who's the best at dealing and absorbing damage, berserker is the man in my opinion.

[I'm also biased because of Guts from the Berserk manga, he's just so cool(even if depending on the arc, you could classify him as a fighter, but there already are many threads about it so yeah.)]

But you can still get solid damage with your bonus action via feats, and get all the Totem benefits.

Like you being biased, I'm also very pro-Bear. I mean, Resistance to everything but Psychic. So hard to turn down.

Steampunkette

2017-04-20, 01:16 PM

If your DM allows you to do some kind of alternate sacrifice for the Frenzy Zerk (Like HD loss instead of Exhaustion) then a Half Orc Frenzy Zerk is probably the most horrific force you will meet on the battlefield.

With constant advantage, crits come about twice as often, and thanks to the Half Orc Racial, you'll be throwing 3d12 on a crit, and swinging 3 times at level 5. 6 chances to land a crit is pretty big when you do it every turn.

By 17th level your crits are 6d12, and you get to make a reaction to hit someone who hits you, which gives you 8 chances to crit between the start of your turn and the start of the next one.

(17 is the "End Point" for several of the D&D adventure paths)

N810

2017-04-20, 01:17 PM

But Berserker gets retaliation !
also sentinel is always a good choice for a barbarian.

Pichu

2017-04-20, 01:52 PM

Goblin (Zenkidar UA) Barbarian 3/Druid 2/Warlock 1

Point Buy: 13/14/13/13/8/13

Why: Barbarian 3 for Bear Totem gives resistance to all damage except psychic (which goblin gives). Moon Druid 2 gives CR 1 Wild Shape (Brown Bear). Fiendlock 1 gives Warlock+Cha Temp HP on a kill.

Result?

3d12+3d8+6*Con HP, 34 extra HP via Wild Shape, and Temp HP on a kill. All with resistance to everything.

EDIT: If you want to got full tank, become Rogue5/Barbarian3/Druid2/Warlock1 for 1/4 damage, Temp HP on a kill, and extra HP, although at this point you're making a kinda MAD build really MAD.

Bgharcourt

2017-04-20, 02:48 PM

I didn' read the UA, but berserker is very much better than totem IMO. You may be even invulnerable to all damage, but once you fail that wisdom save against charm, you and your party are screwed.

Not if you are a Rock Gnome Barbarian, like my current character.

GlenSmash!

2017-04-20, 05:10 PM

The only one I really liked from UA was the Zealot. It honestly does "berserker" better than the current Berserker.

EvilAnagram

2017-04-20, 05:45 PM

I know Berserker gets a lot of hate from my optimizing friends, but the secondary abilities are just so useful. Immunity to Charm and Fear beats resistance to damage or mobility in my opinion, and a third attack is so damn useful. Sure, feats can replicate it, but they don't replicate Retaliation. Even advantage on saves doesn't help that much compared to immunity when the save bonus still sucks.

Foxhound438

2017-04-20, 06:41 PM

But Berserker gets retaliation !
also sentinel is always a good choice for a barbarian.

you can take PAM to get basically all of the most relevant abilities of berserkers- BA attacks and reaction attacks. Mindless rage is neat, but a dispel magic from your friendly sorcerer can end about anything it's relevant for, and taking resilient wisdom does a lot of good too, while the intimidate mechanic is bad in general.

Not that I hate the berserker, its reaction attack is a lot easier to get, it's just that you can get almost as good of features off of PAM and then also another subclass's features.

DragonSorcererX

2017-04-20, 06:45 PM

My favorite is Fallen Aasimar Zealot (Necrotic), because now you can be edgy and still be a Barbarian...

Princess

2017-04-20, 06:50 PM

Bear Totem is great as is. But there is something to be said for how much more interesting things can be if you mix in Battlemaster for the extra maneuver options, and/or Assassin if you want to become the boogeyman. Expertise in Stealth and Athletics, silent seething rage as you assassinate everything like a jaguar with a sword. And if a normal rapier doesn't mesh with your preferred barbarism, picture something more like this: http://orig11.deviantart.net/47dd/f/2011/254/9/7/fantasy_estoc_by_licataknives-d49lk5r.jpg

Lombra

2017-04-20, 06:56 PM

I just don't see why one would compare a berserker to a totem giving free feats to totem: the berserker has those feat slots free for ASIs and other feats, so the power and utility gap shrinkens. A berserker will want great weapon master, and then he can worry about ASIs only, basically. To say that berserker is worse because another subclass is better with feats doesn't really mean something relevant IMO. In the end the berserker will liklely have one extra feat that he can spend on maybe tough to get even beefyer, while the totem is bound to polearms and with less HPs (which are possibly offset by the bear's ovaerall resistance)

jaappleton

2017-04-20, 07:09 PM

EvilAnagram

2017-04-20, 07:24 PM

Fair.

However, I don't think you're giving the Wolf's Advantage-granting ability, or Bear's improved resistance, etc enough credit.

I think the Wolf's advantage is quite nice. If you have an attack-heavy party, especially if there's a rogue, then it's incredible. Hell, a Wolf Barbarian and a crew of Rogues is a dammed nasty party without any support. Throw in a Cleric and you're golden.

Steampunkette

2017-04-20, 09:24 PM

I think the Wolf's advantage is quite nice. If you have an attack-heavy party, especially if there's a rogue, then it's incredible. Hell, a Wolf Barbarian and a crew of Rogues is a dammed nasty party without any support. Throw in a Cleric and you're golden.

Multiple Half Orc Barbarians. Bearbarian tanking, Wolfbarian granting advantage, Zerkbarian throwing off big swings, all raging with only wolf using Reckless. 7 attacks per round, 14 attack rolls, and 7d12 crits.

Sure, add a Rogue for Sneak Attack. Skip the Cleric, though, a Paladin can take advantage of the Wolfbarian to throw Critsmites when she's not healing.

Zman

2017-04-20, 09:38 PM

Bearbarian with GWM is super solid, make him a Half Alec and Dionne a champion 3 for some Crit fishing goodness too.

Phoenix042

2017-04-20, 09:42 PM

I'm seconding the bear totem barbarian 3 / battlemaster x route.

At level 20, the build can 1v1 a Pit Fiend with favorable odds, WITHOUT items (including factoring in saving throws, etc).

Fighter 17 is just a fantastic break point, and I think giving up that extra attack at 20 in favor of 3 rages /day, reckless attack, rage bonus on the 3 attacks you've already got (plus on reaction and bonus action attacks, which are unaffected by extra attacks), all combined with battlemaster maneuvers like riposte and precision attack just makes for a TON of synergy.

Now I haven't done math for every martial combo, but that strikes me as fairly good compared to just barbarian 20 (which lasts a little longer, but has MUCH less offensive power and ultimately likely dies to the pit fiend).

Lombra

2017-04-21, 12:43 AM

Fair.

However, I don't think you're giving the Wolf's Advantage-granting ability, or Bear's improved resistance, etc enough credit.

They are fantastic actually, I'm not saying that they're bad, they're among the strongest abilities that a character could get, although as far as my experience goes saves are the worst part of encounters for martials, not damage. There are plenty of ways to offset them thanks to maybe paladin's aura and wizard's resistance (at the same time eventual exhaustion levels may be healed too), but if we are talking about only the barbarian by himself, he won't be able to even hit the baddest enemies in the game because of their fear aura.

I'm seconding the bear totem barbarian 3 / battlemaster x route.

At level 20, the build can 1v1 a Pit Fiend with favorable odds, WITHOUT items (including factoring in saving throws, etc).

Fighter 17 is just a fantastic break point, and I think giving up that extra attack at 20 in favor of 3 rages /day, reckless attack, rage bonus on the 3 attacks you've already got (plus on reaction and bonus action attacks, which are unaffected by extra attacks), all combined with battlemaster maneuvers like riposte and precision attack just makes for a TON of synergy.

Now I haven't done math for every martial combo, but that strikes me as fairly good compared to just barbarian 20 (which lasts a little longer, but has MUCH less offensive power and ultimately likely dies to the pit fiend).

If the best barbarian is a character which only has ~1/7th of his levels in the barbarian class it means that either the designer failed at the barbarian's design or that you are not building a barbarian xD.
Sure you can fluff any class as any other (most of the times) but I think that that's a bit of an offense to the barbarian's class, don't you think?

djreynolds

2017-04-21, 12:54 AM

Vasporos

2017-04-21, 05:43 AM

We ran a 20th level one-shot, bear totem at 20th level is awesome... no doubt

But for 5 rounds, even with resilient wisdom and wisdom save of +8, I failed many saves versus fear/frighten... DC 23, means you need to roll 15 or better

Crazy as it sounds berserkers feature, at 6th level, mindless rage is very powerful.

Bear totem who fails his wisdom saves versus fear is now out of rage and no longer resistant to anything. Even if the cleric threw protection from evil/good on you... it doesn't help versus the dragon

IMO... mindless rage is as powerful as the bear totem damage resistance

Interesting food for thought. Coming up on level 3 now and figured totem easily, now I gotta think a bit.

jaappleton

2017-04-21, 06:17 AM

If you're going Barb / Fighter, I'd argue that Battlemaster isn't the route to go.

Remember, all UA is included, right?

Totem Barbarian / MONSTER HUNTER Fighter. It's from the Gothic Heroes UA article.

You still get precision attack, you can add superiority dice to damage, you get Protection from Evil and Good, and can add superiority dice to Wis, Int and Cha saving throws.

If we're talking about Fears and Charms, then this is the route to go, right?

jaappleton

2017-04-21, 06:19 AM

We ran a 20th level one-shot, bear totem at 20th level is awesome... no doubt

But for 5 rounds, even with resilient wisdom and wisdom save of +8, I failed many saves versus fear/frighten... DC 23, means you need to roll 15 or better

Crazy as it sounds berserkers feature, at 6th level, mindless rage is very powerful.

Bear totem who fails his wisdom saves versus fear is now out of rage and no longer resistant to anything. Even if the cleric threw protection from evil/good on you... it doesn't help versus the dragon

IMO... mindless rage is as powerful as the bear totem damage resistance

....Huh.

I'm not going to disagree. But I'd say its a bit dependent on what you're fighting, and your DM. If your DM is the kind who throws bigger damage numbers at you, Bear rules. If your DM likes to utilize creatures that charm, fear, etc, then Mindless Rage jumps up a lot in usefulness.

mephnick

2017-04-21, 08:47 AM

Like you being biased, I'm also very pro-Bear. I mean, Resistance to everything but Psychic. So hard to turn down.

Eh, it's really only resistence to elemental damage. Rage aleady gives the resistence to physical. Honestly I think Bear is PHB's 3rd best choice behind Wolf and Eagle.

Giant2005

2017-04-21, 10:19 AM

Moon Druid 9/War Cleric 1/Barb 5 is excellent. Throw Sentinel in the mix and you are making 3-4 attacks of 6d6+4 damage each. Frenzy isn't so bad when you have 2 castings of Greater Restoration and War Priest to be supplementing it with.

Specter

2017-04-21, 10:30 AM

Okay, gents, we've been through this many times, but let's try to summarize stuff here:

BEARBARIAN is great, but in some fights (I'll dare to say one every adventure) your bonus resistances won't come into play. The level 14 ability, together with Sentinel, is what makes a tank: it's like automatic protection style for all your friends near you.

WOLFBARIAN is great if you have a rogue in your party, and even better if there are two more melee guys in the party. The more people, the better, and offense in the end is the best defense. The level-14 ability is pretty basic, but still pretty effective.

BARBAREAGLE is the most overlooked of all of them. But you know what's cool? To never lose your rage because there's no one nearby. And going straight to the boss instead of wasting time with minions. And kiting. The level 14 ability is essentially ninja jumping.

BERSERKER is fine if you use Frenzy once a day. That may seem lame compared to the other always-on abilities, but Frenzy gets four combat-oriented abilities, while the totem guys get two. Totem guys need a feat (Resilient WIS) not to suck, you don't. And Retaliation? Woooo!

Steampunkette

2017-04-21, 11:00 AM

Worth noting: Bearbarian isn't always Bear-Bear-Bear.

I've sean Bear-Eagle-Wolf and Bear-Wolf-Wolf, before.

Phoenix042

2017-04-21, 11:13 AM

...as far as my experience goes saves are the worst part of encounters for martials, not damage.

I agree with this, and while it may be DM dependent, I think most groups that take players from low to mid levels is probably going to run a mix of encounter types in the end. Sometimes, you'll be fighting foes who are primarily physical and don't have magic aura's and whatnot.

But Dragons, tho.

You're likely going to run into fear auras with some reliability, and take for example the Pit Fiend I was discussing. The Pit Fiend has ways of dealing fire damage and poison damage, both of which the bearbarian resists. But a Berserker would still resist most of the damage the Pit Fiend deals. Meanwhile, the Bearbarian (even with resilient wis) is very likely to fail his save against the Pit Fiend's fear aura, while the Berserker can simply rage and ignore it. And the poison damage might not even go off; Either Barbarian likely has a greater than 50% chance to save against it.

If the best barbarian is a character which only has ~1/7th of his levels in the barbarian class it means that either the designer failed at the barbarian's design or that you are not building a barbarian xD.
Sure you can fluff any class as any other (most of the times) but I think that that's a bit of an offense to the barbarian's class, don't you think?

Oh I agree that this isn't really a very "Barbarian" character, and I wouldn't have posted about it (or done all that math to confirm) if I didn't think it fit the spirit of this particular thread, where UA and Multiclass are encouraged.

I still think Barbarian 20 has a lot of advantages over this build, and fighter 20 does as well. They're different characters, with different strengths and weaknesses to an extent. But as far as taking and dishing damage while still holding the line as a frontline melee character, a barb 3 / fighter 17 just has a TON of resources available to expend, and they all synergize with each other to an absurd degree and many of them don't cost actions to use, which is huge.

Phoenix042

2017-04-21, 11:32 AM

Worth noting: Bearbarian isn't always Bear-Bear-Bear.

I've sean Bear-Eagle-Wolf and Bear-Wolf-Wolf, before.

I'm personally a big fan of wolf, x , bear, so adjacent enemies get debuffed while adjacent allies get buffed. Maybe pick up Commander's Strike somewhere in there and then focus on your defenses (use a shield, etc).

Seems like it could be a ton of fun with the right group. Like Paladin + Rogue, or something.

Socratov

2017-04-21, 11:47 AM

I don't like frenzy: I think that the extra attack at the cost of a level of exhaustion is a really harsh penalty. Especially given that you will need a druid or cleric to stand by and cure your levels of exhaustion.

I do like the totems (I don't venue often enough into UA to really have a good opinion about them). The bear is good, solid and gives you as the barbarian lots of stuff that is pretty, well, good. The added rituals aren't too bad either. That said, I recently DM-ed for a wolf totem barbarian and his ability to grant advantage on anyone in melee with him is simply astonishing. It's insanely strong and with 1 or more rogues in the party can completely change the face of battle. Elk is great as the aded mobility makes for an interesting set of skills. and the fact that you don't need to keep to one animal for your totems means that you can be thoroughly mixing it up with the eagle's pseudo flight or some other great stuff.

Steampunkette

2017-04-21, 11:52 AM

The Sea Storm Barbarian is pretty great, to be honest. It's not as strong as Frenzy, but without the exhaustion penalty. 4d6 as a bonus action every turn while raging, constant resistance to one of the more common damage types, and knockdown on every attack.

https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_Barbarian.pdf

Hrugner

2017-04-21, 01:36 PM

Steampunkette

2017-04-21, 01:47 PM

It looks like that 4d6 isn't an action at all, it just happens.

OH! You're right...

I'd always just assumed it cost a bonus action. Heck. Dual-wielding Sea Storm Barbarian throws out even MORE damage.

Maxilian

2017-04-21, 02:38 PM

Worth noting: Bearbarian isn't always Bear-Bear-Bear.

I've sean Bear-Eagle-Wolf and Bear-Wolf-Wolf, before.

I normally see the second Bear skipped for another animal

Maxilian

2017-04-21, 02:40 PM

OH! You're right...

I'd always just assumed it cost a bonus action. Heck. Dual-wielding Sea Storm Barbarian throws out even MORE damage.

I love that ability, mainly cause there are not many damage based abilities that scale based on your CON

PartyChef

2017-04-21, 04:31 PM

What level are you looking to get?

It's hard to beat the totem at low levels. At mid level I am partial to barbarogue for movement as a bonus action and expertise on my grapple. Especially if you are a defensive barb because you can use a shield and rapier (still use strength) and get sneak attack included. Shield master also helps knock people prone so you can get advantage that way and avoid reckless attacking

However. If UA is allowed and you think you will reach 14. Desert barbarian combined with the Fell Handed feat knocks people down and leaves them there to burn. Very good control barb.

Vogonjeltz

2017-04-21, 07:15 PM

But Exhaustion...

And nothing stops a Half Elf, or any race with Advantage on saves VS Charms, from becoming a Barbarian. +2 Cha, +1 Str, +1 Con, Darkvision? Not bad.

Yeah, but then you can't be a Half-Orc which is inarguably a better Barbarian getting more of the relevant stats, bonus brutal critical, and die hard.

Frenzy has to be used in moderation, but it's mechanically superior for an attacker to a totem warrior who had to sacrifice an ASI for GWM.

Chaosmancer

2017-04-21, 07:37 PM

Got to throw in love for the Zealot. I've got a mid-leveled one in the party I'm DMing and that radiant aura is pretty darn good.

5ft radius 1d6+1/2 level, he likes to wade in and just burn everything.

Haven't seen any of their other abilities used. He never sacs his rage for a save and never uses the battle cry action, but i could see good things coming from it if done better

Ninja-Radish

2017-04-21, 08:27 PM

Personally, my favorite Barbarians are Wolf Totem for the advantage ability, and Zealot Barbarian. Eagle is underrated as well, but still behind those two.

djreynolds

2017-04-22, 01:04 AM

I think it is so party dependent, If you have a paladin then totem's rock... any of them.

If you have a cleric or bard... backing the team with lesser restoration and heroism and fixing stuff.

But we fought the demon prince Grazzt and his DC was 23, with a 14 in wisdom and resilience and my save was +8... 15 or better is tough.

And protection from good/evil is useless versus dragons and other things

Mindless rage is an auto-pass. Frankly even with all the strange math out there that "support" frenzy... mindless rage is the only reason to go berserker. Otherwise bear has to be king as long as you can protect him from stuff that will drop his rage

IMO, bear's 3rd level perk could come at 14th level and bear totem resistance would still be by far the best perk... half damage from all damage aside from psychic stuff. A raging aasimar bear totem barbarian, could take 1/4 damage from all paladin attacks with double resistance.

It maybe even more powerful than a wizard spamming free shield spells, because a crit still hits and in time we all will roll a 20.

And that's why they are so good, because like uncanny dodge, you halve all damage... and that means they have wasted spells, powers and smites on you. People (aside from those silly mystics) have to spend 2x the resources to kill you... so actually getting hit is a good thing!!!

EvilAnagram

2017-04-22, 05:14 AM

snip

You make a lot of great points, though I disagree with your conclusion. That said, there's no such thing as double resistance.

djreynolds

2017-04-22, 05:52 AM

You make a lot of great points, though I disagree with your conclusion. That said, there's no such thing as double resistance.

Oh my fault, I thought resistance stacked with resistance, 1/2 then became 1/4.

"Hey Dave you there?"
"Yes."
"I'm sorry but we have to go back to Out Of the Abyss and redo it, my rogue barbarian should be dead... sorry"

Arial Black

2017-04-22, 09:40 AM

My current PC is Lord Scarfell, an Aasimar (raised as a human noble) who is completely civilised...but who has some anger management issues....

As a Bar 5 he can Frenzy (at the usual cost of exhaustion) to get a 3rd attack at those big sacks of hit points, and GWM so that he can still (probably) get a 3rd attack during a normal rage when fighting smaller sacks of hit points.

As a scourge Aasimar he can use Radiant Consumption, which has the same duration as his rage, keeps his rage going all by itself, and has great crunch (damage) and fluff (cool!). The fury that is within scourge Aasimar explains his rage. I usually use Frenzy at the same time as Radiant Consumption as it not only represents my (literal) nova but thematically the exhaustion seems appropriate from all the radiant damage I'm doing to myself.

At 6th level I'll use the idea that Radiant Consumption means that I have been 'touched by the light' of the positive plane and take levels in Undying Light warlock and paladin to get divine favour and green-flame blade with Cha to damage. They cannot be used while raging, but it gives him a choice to do one or the other and extends the number of combats he can lay down the smack.

Not optimised per se, but effective and enormous fun!

This is the very first warrior-type I've made in 5E who doesn't have at least a 16 in his attack stat (Reckless Attack FTW!), but it's nice to play a barbarian with high charisma.

Str: 14 Dex: 14 Con: 16 Int: 8 Wis: 8 Cha: 14

suplee215

2017-04-22, 10:46 AM

While not the best, if you can talk your DM into lifting restriction of Dwarves and counting spiked armor as a heavy weapon (You are basically using your own body, which is heavier than any weapon) they are excellent at not dying and hitting hard. +5 temp hit points a turn makes up for lack of Bear almost and you lack exhaustion of Beserker. also lack of unarmored defense due to armor is not that big a deal as you are being hit 99% of the time anyways due to reckless.

mephnick

2017-04-22, 10:52 AM

Oh my fault, I thought resistance stacked with resistance, 1/2 then became 1/4.

That's why people overrate bear. Rage itself already gives you physical resiatence. Bear is just resistence to elemental damage and how often does that come up really? Like maybe you're saving a few HP a day from spells or breath weapons. Ok great, but is it better than wolf or eagle? Absolutely not.

Giant2005

2017-04-22, 10:57 AM

IMO, bear's 3rd level perk could come at 14th level and bear totem resistance would still be by far the best perk... half damage from all damage aside from psychic stuff. A raging aasimar bear totem barbarian, could take 1/4 damage from all paladin attacks with double resistance.

It really isn't that good.
All Barbs resist the big three damage types and those damage types make up about 90% of all incoming damage. Halving that last 10% isn't really as big a boon as it is made out to be. Sure it is good, but it isn't as good as the things given up for its sake. I don't think there is even an argument to be made for it being better than the 3rd level feature of the Wolf totem in a melee heavy party. The wolf ability is so far ahead in power that the two abilities aren't even really comparable.
The wolf abilities doesn't just make your team do considerably more damage, it also makes you a better tank than the bear totem Barb. The wolf totem actually halves the enemy's damage output because he is the one being attacked. The bear totem doesn't do anything to the enemy's damage output because he isn't the one being attacked - someone without resistance is eating that damage.

Socratov

2017-04-23, 12:20 AM

That's why people overrate bear. Rage itself already gives you physical resiatence. Bear is just resistence to elemental damage and how often does that come up really? Like maybe you're saving a few HP a day from spells or breath weapons. Ok great, but is it better than wolf or eagle? Absolutely not.

It's net and has saved my barbarian butt more times then I would care to tell about. But I admit that in the right party Wolf is much better. It depends on your role: if you are tank, bear helps you. If you hold the line while others attack wolf is your pick...

Vasporos

2017-04-23, 12:46 AM

If you only have a bm fighter in your group of four, the rest being druid and warlock, wolf isn't worth it then right? You need at least two other melee?

Giant2005

2017-04-23, 01:31 AM

If you only have a bm fighter in your group of four, the rest being druid and warlock, wolf isn't worth it then right? You need at least two other melee?

It is worth it even with only one other melee. Advantage increases damage output considerably.
The only time it isn't useful is if that Fighter has some means of getting easy access to Advantage anyway, or he is a moron that likes to run off and fight things where he wouldn't get that benefit.

djreynolds

2017-04-23, 03:14 AM

The thing about bears damage resistance is it even works versus magic weapons, but really that is higher level play if you are facing stuff that has magic weapons

Otherwise, each has good uses. I like wolf it is really cool and makes the group feel like a wolf pack. And eagle actually seems legit with big crowded fights

Question, uncanny dodge works with rage resistance... since uncanny dodge states you just take half-damage no mention of resistance?

Giant2005

2017-04-23, 05:30 AM

The thing about bears damage resistance is it even works versus magic weapons, but really that is higher level play if you are facing stuff that has magic weapons
The DR of all Barbarians works against magic weapons.

Question, uncanny dodge works with rage resistance... since uncanny dodge states you just take half-damage no mention of resistance?

Yep. They work fine together.

Mrglee

2017-04-23, 05:48 AM

That's why people overrate bear. Rage itself already gives you physical resiatence. Bear is just resistence to elemental damage and how often does that come up really?

A lot. Like, multiple combats per day. A ton of creatures use poison or fire damage; and acid, cold, necrotic, and lightning are not exactly niche either. The exact count comes out to 218 sources of nonphysical damage in the monster manual. This doesn't include things like spells and environmental effects either, and Volo's added even more.
Wolf is underrated however. Really solid, and in the right party is a DPS machine. Eagle is almost always strictly worse than bear, though bonus action dash is nice. Still, unless you are Tabaxi Barbarian, probably not worth it.

Harrumphreys

2017-04-23, 06:57 AM

No love for the Sea Storm Barbarian?

It's the best of the 'storm' subclasses, with free action damage that scales up as you level whilst raging and eventually Prones enemies that fail it's DEX save.

It also allows you to breathe underwater, again free of action economy or 'set up'; grab that enemy guard and jump in the lake! No one will hear him scream as you sink to the bottom.

Contrast

2017-04-23, 07:25 AM

It is worth it even with only one other melee. Advantage increases damage output considerably.
The only time it isn't useful is if that Fighter has some means of getting easy access to Advantage anyway, or he is a moron that likes to run off and fight things where he wouldn't get that benefit.

This depends. In a white room it helps a lot. If you only had two it becomes a little questionable if you want both of them standing next to each other (i.e. you should go body block over there/go kill that wizard). Rogues obviously have to stand next to someone typically to get their sneak attack (and the benefit greatly from improved accuracy and crit given their high damage single attack). I would generally say if there are two other melee combatants in the party its very good. If there's one, its good :smalltongue: If one of the other melee combants is a rogue it'll be excellent either way.