Can I make an exulted Hellbred

[SirNMN]

I want to make an Exalted paladin but I am not sure if I can since the hellbred automatically get devils favor a devil touched feat or does "Evil Exception (Ex): Regardless of alignment or class restrictions, a hellbred can cast spells with the evil descriptor and never gains negative levels while wielding evil magic items, such as unholy weapons or demon armor. This ability does not shield a hellbred from losing access to class features if he violates a class’s code of conduct. For example, using a +1 unholy longsword to slay orcs would not violate a hellbred paladin’s code of conduct, though using the weapon to kill another paladin would." page 78 cover my back

[Venger]

Of course you can.

You only lose the ability to use exalted stuff after you select a devil-touched feat, and hellbred don't select their feat, it's baked into the race.

good luck with your exalted hellbred. what's your stub look like?

[SirNMN]

what's your stub look like?

What is stub?

[Venger]

What is stub?

What is the planned trajectory for the character? Have you thought about what kinds of class levels or feats you would like to take?

[Thurbane]

Of course you can.

You only lose the ability to use exalted stuff after you select a devil-touched feat, and hellbred don't select their feat, it's baked into the race.

Could be an issue of he chose Body Aspect: he will get bonus Devil Touched feats at 4th and 14th level, which must be selected from a set list.

[Venger]

Could be an issue of he chose Body Aspect: he will get bonus Devil Touched feats at 4th and 14th level, which must be selected from a set list.

While theoretically possible, why would you ever roll hellbred and not take spirit? mindsight and everything.

[Thurbane]

While theoretically possible, why would you ever roll hellbred and not take spirit? mindsight and everything.

I've only ever played one Hellbred, and it was a Body Aspect Binder. :smallwink:

[MHCD]

While theoretically possible, why would you ever roll hellbred and not take spirit? mindsight and everything.

Maybe fluff? Maybe constitution is more important to the character than charisma? Maybe the build is less likely to see as much play at level 15+? No passive-aggressive tone here, just guessing. I normally go with spirit, but I've only once played a hellbred at that level anyway. My favorites were:

A hellbred (body) crusader that was a blast to play, from oozing intimidation and being decked out in spooky evil gear, right up to and including the heroic sacrifice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouShallNotPass) at the adventure's conclusion, complete with a well-done Ambiguous Ending regarding his redemption (excellent storyteller of a DM).

A (spirit) cleric / prestige paladin playing through Red Hand of Doom was great fun, too, the highlight being his eventual conversion from cowardly monk to warrior of Bahamut and the sealing of his physical and spiritual redemption by becoming a dragonborn. In addition to a stronger body granted for his service (+2 con from dragonborn), the Rite of Rebirth gets rid of your other racial traits, including Hellbound (no more inevitable damnation - he sold his life to Bahamut, who claimed it from Hell when he fought to destroy the spawn of Tiamat and stop her invasion of the prime).

It was also interesting to try a (spirit) sorcerer who lacked the courage to selflessly champion a noble cause with such a small chance of success, instead resolving to avoid the issue of death and losing his soul to the devils who owned it. He attempted to escape through undeath, becoming a lich and sealing his soul to a phylactery to forever avoid his punishment. He died long before his planned transformation, and the squandering of his second chance at life only added to his damnation. It was great.


Short answer: yes, you can play an exalted hellbred. In fact, hellbred can make some of the coolest exalted characters ever. They are perhaps one of the most flavorful races in 3.5, and just bursting with roleplay and story potential - as well as some nifty racial abilities.

[ATHATH]

Just so that you know, exalted is spelled "exalted", not "exulted". You spelled it wrong consistently, so I figured that you didn't know that.

[Venger]

I've only ever played one Hellbred, and it was a Body Aspect Binder. :smallwink:
Fair enough. They don't exactly need int, and zceryll has telepathy covered.


Maybe fluff? Maybe constitution is more important to the character than charisma? Maybe the build is less likely to see as much play at level 15+? No passive-aggressive tone here, just guessing. I normally go with spirit, but I've only once played a hellbred at that level anyway. My favorites were:

A hellbred (body) crusader that was a blast to play, from oozing intimidation and being decked out in spooky evil gear, right up to and including the heroic sacrifice (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouShallNotPass) at the adventure's conclusion, complete with a well-done Ambiguous Ending regarding his redemption (excellent storyteller of a DM).

A (spirit) cleric / prestige paladin playing through Red Hand of Doom was great fun, too, the highlight being his eventual conversion from cowardly monk to warrior of Bahamut and the sealing of his physical and spiritual redemption by becoming a dragonborn. In addition to a stronger body granted for his service (+2 con from dragonborn), the Rite of Rebirth gets rid of your other racial traits, including Hellbound (no more inevitable damnation - he sold his life to Bahamut, who claimed it from Hell when he fought to destroy the spawn of Tiamat and stop her invasion of the prime).

It was also interesting to try a (spirit) sorcerer who lacked the courage to selflessly champion a noble cause with such a small chance of success, instead resolving to avoid the issue of death and losing his soul to the devils who owned it. He attempted to escape through undeath, becoming a lich and sealing his soul to a phylactery to forever avoid his punishment. He died long before his planned transformation, and the squandering of his second chance at life only added to his damnation. It was great.


Short answer: yes, you can play an exalted hellbred. In fact, hellbred can make some of the coolest exalted characters ever. They are perhaps one of the most flavorful races in 3.5, and just bursting with roleplay and story potential - as well as some nifty racial abilities.
Thanks for clarifying, I probably would've interpreted it as passive-aggressive otherwise. Those are all certainly valid reasons.

I love hellbred. They're among my favorite races in D&D.

[Gusmo]

How have other people dealt with using the feat devil's favor as a hellbred? To me it doesn't really make sense to call upon the infernal powers when your whole schtick is fighting devils. I don't recall seeing any text in the race description that changes the fluff of the feat. I've only played a hellbred once, I opted not to use the feat ever.

[Thurbane]

How have other people dealt with using the feat devil's favor as a hellbred? To me it doesn't really make sense to call upon the infernal powers when your whole schtick is fighting devils. I don't recall seeing any text in the race description that changes the fluff of the feat. I've only played a hellbred once, I opted not to use the feat ever.

Yeah, my DM had a pretty big issue with the wording of the feat for my CG Hellbred (who was trying his best to be CG to avoid going back to the Nine Hells when he died).

I imagine it would be even more problematic for a Paladin and/or Exalted character.

[Inevitability]

How have other people dealt with using the feat devil's favor as a hellbred? To me it doesn't really make sense to call upon the infernal powers when your whole schtick is fighting devils. I don't recall seeing any text in the race description that changes the fluff of the feat. I've only played a hellbred once, I opted not to use the feat ever.

There are ways to swap out feats for other feats. Perhaps your DM is willing to let you replace it?

[ZamielVanWeber]

To be fair the last time I played a hellbred I plain forgot I had it it is so awful. I just went around doing awesome hellbred spirit channeler things and never bothered with the feat.

[SirNMN]

Just so that you know, exalted is spelled "exalted", not "exulted". You spelled it wrong consistently, so I figured that you didn't know that.

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't realized I had misspelled it, and once I mistake I stay consistence about making it all the way through. I am playing Barb 1 favored enemy variant, Battle Dance 1 Cloistered Cleric 2 Monk 1 Fist of the Forst 1 Harper pragon 2 - 10 Taking the Nemesis be able to sense anything evil with 60 feet of me forever after

[Venger]

Thanks for pointing that out. I hadn't realized I had misspelled it, and once I mistake I stay consistence about making it all the way through. I am playing Barb 1 favored enemy variant, Battle Dance 1 Cloistered Cleric 2 Monk 1 Fist of the Forst 1 Harper pragon 2 - 10 Taking the Nemesis be able to sense anything evil with 60 feet of me forever after

your level breakdown is peculiar. would you care to walk me through it? harper paragon's reqs are brutal, but that's a pretty interesting class. hadn't looked at it before.

[SirNMN]

Fist of the forest
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Handle Animal 4 ranks , Survival 4 ranks
Feats: Great Fortitude , Improved Unarmed Strike , Power Attack
Harper paragon
Diplomacy 8 ranks, Perform 5 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Survival 2 ranks.
Feats: Sacred Vow (Book of Exalted Deeds), Vow of Obedience (Book of Exalted Deeds).
Special: Favored Enemy: The character must have one of the following monstrous kinds or evil organizations
as a favored enemy: humanoid (goblinoid), humanoid (gnoll), humanoid (orc), humanoid (reptilian), outsider (evil), undead, the Church of Bane,

Barb 1 Favored enemy Variant get met the favored enemy and the ranks in survival level 1 feat sacred vow
Flaw 1 vow of poverty
Vow of poverty level 1 NYMPH’S KISS
Race devil's favor
Battle Dancer get me the ranks in preform 1 cha to ac
vow of poverty Level 2 vow of obedience
the cleric get me the spell casting that will be continued by the haper paragon will be trading some of the domains for devotion feats
Level 3 power attack
vow of poverty level 4
Race devil touched feat
monk gets me the ranks in Diplomacy and sense motive wisdom to ac
2 level of Harper paragon get me favored enemy evil +1 Nemesis gives of Benefit: Choose one of your favored enemies. You can sense the presence of creatures of this type within 60 feet, as well as pinpoint their exact location (distance and direction) relative to you. Normal barriers and obstructions do not block this supernatural ability, allowing you to sense the presence and location of creatures behind doors or walls, for example. This feat does not allow you to see an invisible or hidden creature (although you can still discern its location). In addition to sensing the presence of your favored enemy, you deal +1d6 points of damage on weapon attack rolls made against evil representatives of the favored enemy creature type. chosen favored enemy (evil) insert maniacal laughter
Harper paragon also provides full casting which I need at this point, 3/4 bab, 4+int skills, and a d10 hd
then 1 level of fist of the forest increase unarmed damage and con to ac think I goofed the order before when typed it in

[MHCD]

Fair enough. They don't exactly need int, and zceryll has telepathy covered.


Thanks for clarifying, I probably would've interpreted it as passive-aggressive otherwise. Those are all certainly valid reasons.

I love hellbred. They're among my favorite races in D&D.

Thank you; tone does not always translate well through text. What a pleasant and hope-affirming interaction for the internet.


How have other people dealt with using the feat devil's favor as a hellbred? To me it doesn't really make sense to call upon the infernal powers when your whole schtick is fighting devils. I don't recall seeing any text in the race description that changes the fluff of the feat. I've only played a hellbred once, I opted not to use the feat ever.

Well, you get it as a bonus feat without needing the prerequisites ("Pact with devil"), so even you view the "you can beseech the dark powers to aid you" bit in the description as crunch and not fluff, there's still a case for arguing away that bit on the grounds that you may have never bargained for favors from a devil - though I suppose a DM could reply, "fine, then you receive no aid from anyone", but I don't think that's likely, because FACTS*:

-Someone playing a hellbred is doing so for story/RP reasons. Also, hellbred are awesome.
-DMs like it when players have vested interest in the story/RP aspect of the game and are actually eager to work with them on their story/RP goals. And they think hellbred are awesome.

*really just personal and anecdotal experience on both sides of the screen


What I have done to with Devil's Favor:

A) Refluff it to calling upon the aid of the unknown (and perhaps later, known) patron responsible for wrestling the hellbred from damnation and giving him a second chance

B) Refluff it to drawing the aid from a dark source anyway, but either from stealing it (even utilizing the hellbred's tie to hell to use the power of evil against itself) or because just another result of the Scourging (along with all the other devilish traits) is that power or a connection to that power he holds on his own

C) Forgot that my character had the feat until the group had long been disbanded

[Venger]

Fist of the forest
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Skills: Handle Animal 4 ranks , Survival 4 ranks
Feats: Great Fortitude , Improved Unarmed Strike , Power Attack
Harper paragon
Diplomacy 8 ranks, Perform 5 ranks, Sense Motive 4 ranks, Survival 2 ranks.
Feats: Sacred Vow (Book of Exalted Deeds), Vow of Obedience (Book of Exalted Deeds).
Special: Favored Enemy: The character must have one of the following monstrous kinds or evil organizations
as a favored enemy: humanoid (goblinoid), humanoid (gnoll), humanoid (orc), humanoid (reptilian), outsider (evil), undead, the Church of Bane,

Barb 1 Favored enemy Variant get met the favored enemy and the ranks in survival level 1 feat sacred vow
Flaw 1 vow of poverty
Vow of poverty level 1 NYMPH’S KISS
Race devil's favor
Battle Dancer get me the ranks in preform 1 cha to ac
vow of poverty Level 2 vow of obedience
the cleric get me the spell casting that will be continued by the haper paragon will be trading some of the domains for devotion feats
Level 3 power attack
vow of poverty level 4
Race devil touched feat
monk gets me the ranks in Diplomacy and sense motive wisdom to ac
2 level of Harper paragon get me favored enemy evil +1 Nemesis gives of Benefit: Choose one of your favored enemies. You can sense the presence of creatures of this type within 60 feet, as well as pinpoint their exact location (distance and direction) relative to you. Normal barriers and obstructions do not block this supernatural ability, allowing you to sense the presence and location of creatures behind doors or walls, for example. This feat does not allow you to see an invisible or hidden creature (although you can still discern its location). In addition to sensing the presence of your favored enemy, you deal +1d6 points of damage on weapon attack rolls made against evil representatives of the favored enemy creature type. chosen favored enemy (evil) insert maniacal laughter
Harper paragon also provides full casting which I need at this point, 3/4 bab, 4+int skills, and a d10 hd
then 1 level of fist of the forest increase unarmed damage and con to ac think I goofed the order before when typed it in

as far as qualifications go, with a cursory glance, your BA isn’t high enough to enter fist of the forest at the level listed

what I meant by your stub is peculiar is I don’t understand some of your class choices. what does battle dancer contribute here? it ropes in cha, which otherwise is almost the only other ability you don’t need, making you really mad

I don’t understand why you chose favored enemy barbarian instead of pounce

you don’t need battle dancer for perform. monk already has it as a class skill. while battle dancer does technically grant cha to AC, having to rely on both these abilities (not to mention str, con, and dex) means your bonus to any of them isn’t going to be that good.

forsaking all possessions as a fist of the forest is optional not mandatory. as a melee-ish character, you need gear. vow of poverty is a huge trap and you shouldn’t take it unless you already know you’re in a no loot game or something

nemesis is a solid choice

while I understand your choice of fist of the forest for thematic reasons, I don’t see it doing a whole lot for you mechanically. it’s really just slowing down your spell progression. am I missing something?

If you want to keep it, you’re probably better off changing one of your cleric levels to a monk level and taking overwhelming attack, which gives power attack as a bonus feat, freeing up another one of your slots. OA monk’s other feat is imp bullrush, which is the other req for shock trooper when you reach a ba of 6 later on.

if you retooled your build to something like

ranger 2/barb1/cloistered cleric 1/oa monk 2/fist of the forest 1/harper 10

then you ought to be able to qualify for all your stuff on time. ranger provides favored enemy normally, and fool around with its acfs depending on what you like, barbarian gives pounce, you’ve still got the skills you need, and monk grants power attack and evasion (or trade it for invisible fist if you feel like it) and you no longer need to rely on cha, you’re slightly more wis-sad and have access to ranger’s cool list for wands


Thank you; tone does not always translate well through text. What a pleasant and hope-affirming interaction for the internet.


Sure, anytime

[SirNMN]

as far as qualifications go, with a cursory glance, your BA isn’t high enough to enter fist of the forest at the level listed

what I meant by your stub is peculiar is I don’t understand some of your class choices. what does battle dancer contribute here? it ropes in cha, which otherwise is almost the only other ability you don’t need, making you really mad

I don’t understand why you chose favored enemy barbarian instead of pounce

you don’t need battle dancer for perform. monk already has it as a class skill. while battle dancer does technically grant cha to AC, having to rely on both these abilities (not to mention str, con, and dex) means your bonus to any of them isn’t going to be that good.

forsaking all possessions as a fist of the forest is optional not mandatory. as a melee-ish character, you need gear. vow of poverty is a huge trap and you shouldn’t take it unless you already know you’re in a no loot game or something

nemesis is a solid choice

while I understand your choice of fist of the forest for thematic reasons, I don’t see it doing a whole lot for you mechanically. it’s really just slowing down your spell progression. am I missing something?

If you want to keep it, you’re probably better off changing one of your cleric levels to a monk level and taking overwhelming attack, which gives power attack as a bonus feat, freeing up another one of your slots. OA monk’s other feat is imp bullrush, which is the other req for shock trooper when you reach a ba of 6 later on.

if you retooled your build to something like

ranger 2/barb1/cloistered cleric 1/oa monk 2/fist of the forest 1/harper 10

then you ought to be able to qualify for all your stuff on time. ranger provides favored enemy normally, and fool around with its acfs depending on what you like, barbarian gives pounce, you’ve still got the skills you need, and monk grants power attack and evasion (or trade it for invisible fist if you feel like it) and you no longer need to rely on cha, you’re slightly more wis-sad and have access to ranger’s cool list for wands



Sure, anytime

I went with Favored enemy variant as I am getting pounce from feral, just realized that I never mention that the whole group is feral. I had forgoten that the monk has preform I dipped because I like that Cha to ac as I at the end I get Wis, con, and Cha, and Dex to ac. Long term I want to get saint, but I have to get it in play Battle Dance also give full bab, but you right I need 1 bab to to get fist of the forest, I see where it goofed it went Barb 1 favored enemy variant, Battle Dance 1 Cloistered Cleric 2 Monk 1 Harper paragon 2 Fist of the Forst 1 Harper paragon 3 - 10, vow of poverty can be a trap but with 4 stats to AC I think I can run it with out any problem we used point buy placement 12 +4 = 16 str, 14 - 2 = 12 dex, 14+2 =16 con, 14- 4 = 10 int 14 + 2 = 16 wis, 14 cha
very spread out I know but I plan to use my turn undead to fuel devotions so I want a decent cha which, wisdom for obvious reasons, I don't want to lose skill points dex normal reasons and con normal + ac from fist of the forest, and strength from the normal reasons, might change out the level of battle dancer for one more of monk