AL virgins

[Lolzyking]

Me and my Pal have been playing 5e for a good while, but our group has been playing Edge of empire starwars since christmas, wanting to get back into dnd we decided to hit up one of the local AL groups.

we are going to join up at the first game next month.

My Friend has decided he wants to play a battlemaster fighter.

I was thinking a rogue could be useful aswell since he could command me to attack with my Reaction , allowing me a second sneakattack per round possibly.

I'm aware of the PHB+1 rule of AL so I was wondering what kind of rogue would work best in AL?

Is going hide heavy with a halfling condusive to AL or obstructive?

Is arcane trickster's utility worth its merit or is a swashbuckler more reliable?

Is there a way to make mastermind work?

Thief?

also which race and array would work out for the best as a rogue in AL

[JAL_1138]

Me and my Pal have been playing 5e for a good while, but our group has been playing Edge of empire starwars since christmas, wanting to get back into dnd we decided to hit up one of the local AL groups.

we are going to join up at the first game next month. Cool! Welcome to League; I hope your first experience with it is enjoyable!


My Friend has decided he wants to play a battlemaster fighter.

I was thinking a rogue could be useful aswell since he could command me to attack with my Reaction , allowing me a second sneakattack per round possibly.

I'm aware of the PHB+1 rule of AL so I was wondering what kind of rogue would work best in AL?

Assassin is a little weaker than it looks on paper because Surprise is really hard to come by and poisoner's kit proficiency won't be tremendously useful due to strict crafting limitations in League. Mastermind is a little weak generally, moreso because AL is a little lighter on the social side (but it's not absent). Arcane Trickster, Swashbuckler (SCAG), and Thief are all fine.


Is going hide heavy with a halfling condusive to AL or obstructive? Neither. Expect a lot of table variation on hiding, since the 5e hiding rules aren't perfectly clear bright-line rules.


Is arcane trickster's utility worth its merit or is a swashbuckler more reliable? Mathematician's answer: Yes.

Really, take your pick. Both are fine. Some utility applications for AT's illusions and enchantments will be limited, but being able to get Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade without the Magic Initiate feat makes them a great choice for a melee rogue.


Is there a way to make mastermind work? I wouldn't recommend it. It's just weaker than the rest.


Thief? Fast hands isn't great and rarely comes up, but Second Story Work gets a surprising amount of utility, Supreme Sneak is handy, and especially Use Magic Device is great since you ignore a lot of restrictions on magic items (which comes up a fair bit). Too bad UMD doesn't kick in earlier.


also which race and array would work out for the best as a rogue in AL

Race: Take your pick. Really! Remember though that in AL, races with (permanent) flight at level 1 are banned, except in very rare circumstances where someone has earned a cert that allows it. Check over the FAQ and other AL-published guides like the ALPG. Optimization levels tend not to be so high that the "wrong" race will wreck you, and the modules aren't written assuming super-high optimization, so any works. Darkvision is always handy, though.

Array/Point Buy: The standard array often comes out best, but point-buy can help you even things out to adjust for a racial choice. Don't sweat it too much. Definitely try to aim for a 16 or 17 in Dex after racial mods, but I've seen players manage with a 15. A 14 or better in Con is also a good idea; more HP is always a good thing.

[PeteNutButter]

Hiding in combat is operational, but typically works best from ranged attacks. Remember you still need some manner of cover to actually hide. In conjunction with Commander's strike, the rogue would be exposed after his first attack with no ability to hide again until his turn. The best way to keep this trick working is probably someone who can stay up close and withstand a hit.

For that reason, I'd recommend melee with some way to boost AC. Either a single dip into fighter for medium armor and a shield, or medium armor feat for armor and a shield. For elves, a 2 level dip in bladesinger is another way to raise AC.

I like variant human for pretty much everything. Rogue actually suffers the worst from this though, without darkvision. Although, full disclosure, AL does not often provide the best environment for scouting. It feels like the way the adventures are written, there are a lot of "scripted" encounters that just happen.

If you can handle not seeing in the dark, there are a lot of great feat options:
Sentinel: Another chance at a sneak attack.
Shield Master: Great if you go fighter 1, and take some expertise in athletics
Medium Armor Mastery: Another fighter 1 feat, allowing you to have half plate and a shield AC 20 with no penalty to stealth
Dual Wielder: Good if you prefer to TWF.
Magic Initiate: An option for a pure rogue build to get Booming Blade. High Elf can do the same, or arcane trickster at level 3. If you want the feat, I like find familiar for free advantage on your BB strike.
Defensive Duelist: Mini shield spell
Mobile: Good if you want to TWF and not be a swashbuckler.
Healer: Very strong when combined with Thief.

For subclass, pretty much any of them are viable. Arcane trickster's biggest boon is booming blade for much of his career, but can take shield spell as his one out of school spell. Thief is on the weaker side. Mastermind uses his bonus action to due what a familiar could do. Swashbuckler is nice, but if you want to stay in melee for reaction attacks it's a bit wasted. Assassin advantage if you go first is actually not bad, but don't expect to get more than about 1 surprise round every 4 adventures.

It comes down to what kind of rogue you want to play. I personally prefer a fighter 1/rogue x type so I can not be a huge squish target.

Whatever you do, best to start with a 16 in dex and con.

[Lolzyking]

thanks for the advice so far, I've used familiars before with arcane trickster for advantage fishing, how are familiars handled in AL usually?

Also do you have any experience with getting booming blade to work? or should I just join the green flame blade bros?

[jaappleton]

One more 'L' in the topic title and this become "ALL virgins" and its a very different topic...

[PeteNutButter]

thanks for the advice so far, I've used familiars before with arcane trickster for advantage fishing, how are familiars handled in AL usually?

Also do you have any experience with getting booming blade to work? or should I just join the green flame blade bros?

Booming Blade works great for a rogue against melee foes. In practice it never seems to work like you it to, because half your party is melee, and they end up walking up to foes.

If there are a lot of enemies, you can probably proc it fairly often, assuming there is a decent battlefield space. If there are few enemies, your allies may be forced to engage, or waste their turn. Additional issues arise once the enemies just engage with your melee companions instead of chasing the annoying rogue. Your allies aren't likely to disengage as you are.

It'd be amazing if your party was mobile and kite-happy, but clunky fighters and barbarians abound, leaving it to a rarity. You can probably get it to pop once or twice a fight. Maybe on round one before melee engagement, and on the last round when the foe wants to flee.

That's why I like to have both GFB and BB.

[Lolzyking]

I might consider grabbing them both, but I've sort of gotten used to grabbing mending every chance I get

[Arcangel4774]

I'm not sure what's banned in AL. But but variant half elf taking cantrip from the high elf makes a decent swashbuckler.

Edit: meant to add that boomingblade is the preferred cantrip as gfb would be forced to scale on int.

[Lolzyking]

arcane trickster scales on Int so GFB is on the table.

Which scag race would you recommend for an Arcan trickster, I might aswell try to get the most out of the phb+1

[since1968]

Assassin advantage if you go first is actually not bad, but don't expect to get more than about 1 surprise round every 4 adventures.

Can confirm. I've gone to three AL events and have yet to get in a surprise round as an assassin. I'm even considering rebuilding as a thief before I level out of first tier.

I took first level fighter for the archery fighting style. Moving, hiding, and sniping is especially effective if your DM is playing with a battle mat showing terrain. Maybe a little less so if you're playing theater of the mind.

We played "Parnast Under Siege" and I felt effective as a sniper, getting sneak attack almost every round. AL has been a great experience so far. Highly recommended!

[Lolzyking]

Okay my next question in regards to AL now that I've got an idea

Arcane trickster rogue, or swashbuckler with booming blade.

How important is AC, or more specifically getting shields and medium armor to a rogue in AL.

Is barbarian rogue A viable alternative to fighter levels in AL if I want to multiclass. (reckless attack rogues are fun on occassion as a last resort)

Barbarian gives unarmored defense dex con, and shields, I'd need 13 str to MC into, but doesn't seem like the worst tax.


So a 16/4 rogue barb with 6 total asi, or a 15/5 with 5 total and Exattack?


Starting idea for session 1 of AL
array chosen
15 14 13 10 10 10
Stout halfling dex+2 and con +1
Str 13, dex 16, con 16, 10 in rest.
Figure out which rogue by 3
Will dip 1 level in barb at level 4
Grab Tough shield master or sentinel at level 5 with rogue asi 4 after seeing how my store does things.


also what 1st-3rd level spells that require no save would be good for a trickster dumping int.

[Vogonjeltz]

Thief?

also which race and array would work out for the best as a rogue in AL

Don't sweat it, any race/class combination is viable, it's more about what choices you make as a character than who/what your character is.

Something to keep in mind for rogues, Wood Elves can hide when lightly obscured by natural phenomena (snow, rain, etcetera) which is pretty great outdoors or in some magical spell effects.

Halflings can hide behind creatures (good for getting advantage on the attack in combat) but they don't have darkvision, so they are less useful at night.

If feats are allowed, I would highly recommend Skulker for a Rogue.

[2D8HP]

A quick skim of this thread shows that others know way more minutiae, and optimization tricks than I do.

But for what it's worth, this is what I like:

Start as a v-human, half elf or wood elf.

V-human for a feat (a good choice if you don't go anywhere dark), otherwise half-elf, or wood and.

Wood Elf is nice at 1st and 2nd level (Mask of the Wild etc.).

Half-elf is good for +2 to CHA, which you want when you take the Swashbuckler subclass.

You may want a level in Fighter, or even start as one (Archery Fighting Style is yummy, but there's a lot else, HP for one).

Get a mark accommodating co-player to play a PC with a high CON, with either heavy armor, or a level in Barbarian and a high DEX, who will stand next to to foe, then you Sneak Attack the foe with your bow.

Use Cunning Action (when you get it) to stay out of melee range.

Repeat until you get to be a Swashbuckler, then you can attack with a rapier, do Sneak Attack damage, without having your stooge buddy standing next to the foe, then dash out of range.

Just don't let the rest of the party convince you to "scout ahead", especially at first level.

Simple, but effective, and you get to imagine doing deeds like a Douglas Fairbanks or Errol Flynn character!


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iEYpwrWRiQU

[Lolzyking]

Well I'm pretty sure I've got my character now, thanks everyone, last question though, to help me figure which type of rogue.

How does AL handle familiars from find familiar during combat. do most GM's allow the use of the familiar in melee range of an enemy for sneak attak, sentinel, ect. Also how do AL gm's react to the time honored tradition of a owl familiar with flyby using the help action to give me advantage on my next attack.


Edit

Also What is AL's rules on carry weight, I figure I might aswell get the most out of tactical stuff

[Pex]

Like AL virgin, playing for the very first time
Like AL virgin, please keep your dice away from mine

[Lolzyking]

Oh Yeah I understand dice etiquette.

as a rogue I have a matching set of dice +3 extra d6's, and a whole case of mini d6's if I ever get highlevel.

[rooneg]

Well I'm pretty sure I've got my character now, thanks everyone, last question though, to help me figure which type of rogue.

How does AL handle familiars from find familiar during combat. do most GM's allow the use of the familiar in melee range of an enemy for sneak attak, sentinel, ect. Also how do AL gm's react to the time honored tradition of a owl familiar with flyby using the help action to give me advantage on my next attack.


Edit

Also What is AL's rules on carry weight, I figure I might aswell get the most out of tactical stuff

Owls doing a flyby help action have been a legal strategy in every AL table I've played at, just don't be surprised when your 1HP owl gets caught in a Fireball or splatted by an annoyed monster.

[Lolzyking]

Oh Its completely fair for Owl Mcnugget to get roasted. It's half the reason why the back up plan to owlmcnugget advantage is barbarian reckless attack (even though I have to forgo +dex damage for str, extra dice is extra dice)

Also in locations where owl mcnugget isn't viable, what other familiars would be useful, does Sir trouser snake count as an adjacent ally for sneak attack?

[PeteNutButter]

Okay my next question in regards to AL now that I've got an idea

Arcane trickster rogue, or swashbuckler with booming blade.

How important is AC, or more specifically getting shields and medium armor to a rogue in AL.

Is barbarian rogue A viable alternative to fighter levels in AL if I want to multiclass. (reckless attack rogues are fun on occassion as a last resort)

Barbarian gives unarmored defense dex con, and shields, I'd need 13 str to MC into, but doesn't seem like the worst tax.


So a 16/4 rogue barb with 6 total asi, or a 15/5 with 5 total and Exattack?


Starting idea for session 1 of AL
array chosen
15 14 13 10 10 10
Stout halfling dex+2 and con +1
Str 13, dex 16, con 16, 10 in rest.
Figure out which rogue by 3
Will dip 1 level in barb at level 4
Grab Tough shield master or sentinel at level 5 with rogue asi 4 after seeing how my store does things.


also what 1st-3rd level spells that require no save would be good for a trickster dumping int.
Shield and other duration buffs like mirror image or blur.


Oh Its completely fair for Owl Mcnugget to get roasted. It's half the reason why the back up plan to owlmcnugget advantage is barbarian reckless attack (even though I have to forgo +dex damage for str, extra dice is extra dice)

Also in locations where owl mcnugget isn't viable, what other familiars would be useful, does Sir trouser snake count as an adjacent ally for sneak attack?

Since reckless attack only works on str melee attacks you should either avoid barb 2 or go with a str build rogue. You can go barb 1-2, but I'd suggest doing it first level (or 2) and go with a str build. Using a rapier with str allows you to reckless attack and benefit from rage and sneak attack. Synergizes very well with Shield Master build.

If you are just worried about having advantage to sneak attack, there is never a shortage of melee in most AL groups. A warm body will be there. Going for a dex build and planning to use reckless attack will make it eventually -4 to hit and damage for advantage to hit, and advantage for enemies to hit you. That's a bad deal.

[Lolzyking]

Deciding to post now about how the game went for me and my friend

Friend A missed, new challenger Friend B joined the quest in his stead

Friend B played water genasis druid 1, did well, used ice knife to decimate kobolds.

I decided against barbarian MC and went monk instead for level 1, game went well, I was Ko'd twice by kobolds.

We eventually beat the Half black dragon winged kobold miniboss without anyone dying.

I learned my new dice set's D20 is 18 heavy, praise dice gods.

I surprisingly got a cloak of protection in my first AL session, as a monk no less (oh holy +1 ac and save item with unarmored defense)

we got 600 exp and made it to level 2.

We will proceed to play AL again next week, Friend A will join as a level 1 fighter.

Edit: I'm planning on going Monk1/Rogue1/Monk2-6,/Rogue3-14. To grab expertise early on, grab the shadow monk features I want to use earlier on, then going in rogue fully (getting Booming blade and arcane trickster magic late, but booming blade will be more useful at a higher level due to cantrip scaling)

[krunchyfrogg]

One more 'L' in the topic title and this become "ALL virgins" and its a very different topic...


LMMFAO! hahahahaha