Help with mechanisms of an Asian-like Ravenloft

[Silfazaris]

Good morning/afternoon/evening people. I just love Ravenloft (my fav D&D setting) and Asian Urban Legends and horror movies. These days I came up with an idea. To DM a game using asian urban legends. I thought about making an alternative Ravenloft world. How? Creating a new map with new domains but using Ravenloft rules for everything. The game would be totally asian-based. But I have some doubts I'd like you guys to help me with:

Problem 1: I don't want it to be a hack and slash game. I don't want them just to fight against a spirit reaping his/her HP off like fantasy games. I want them to find clues and the weakness of their enemy to be able to defeat them. Kuchisake-onna for example. I'd like them to use the right answers to get her confused (You are average looking or Am I Pretty? or Sorry, but I'm in a hurry) or to throw fruits in her feet to be able to defeat her. I want to use these rules for all the other enemies as well. Invincible evil spirits and folklore creatures, invincible until they find their weaknesses.
How could I do that in terms of rules? She's immune to damage until those conditions are met or I just give her Regeneration that can only be interrupted by fruits on her feet? The other question regarding this is: For me it will be funny, but can it be fun for players as well? I have my doubts.

Problem 2: Magic in the setting. Although these creatures all have supernatural powers. The goal of the game is to be just like a supernatural movie or tale where the supernatural itself is scary for the players. If they are able to heal and to throw fireballs wouldn't it be less significant, less scary? Maybe I could use Masque of the Red Death rules of magic here, but it's just a thought.

Problem 3: With those problems in mind, the classes that left would still have their roles? I mean. Why would I use a greatsword as a fighter if what I need is not a greatsword and awesome melee abilities but a hint to my enemy's weakness?


Well, I don't mean to throw only these creatures upon them. I want to use wolves, construct dolls (imprisoned souls of little girls just like Okiku's doll) and things like that. The urban legends and those "invincible" creatures would be the Lords of the Domains, just like the regular ones: Strahd, Adam, Ivana, etc.

I can cover the healing easily with rest rules but I really want them to be unaware of the supernatural and arcane things.

What do you think? Can this work with D&D 5E or should I try another system? I just thought Ravenloft would fit perfectly.

[Asmotherion]

Good morning/afternoon/evening people. I just love Ravenloft (my fav D&D setting) and Asian Urban Legends and horror movies. These days I came up with an idea. To DM a game using asian urban legends. I thought about making an alternative Ravenloft world. How? Creating a new map with new domains but using Ravenloft rules for everything. The game would be totally asian-based. But I have some doubts I'd like you guys to help me with:

Problem 1: I don't want it to be a hack and slash game. I don't want them just to fight against a spirit reaping his/her HP off like fantasy games. I want them to find clues and the weakness of their enemy to be able to defeat them. Kuchisake-onna for example. I'd like them to use the right answers to get her confused (You are average looking or Am I Pretty? or Sorry, but I'm in a hurry) or to throw fruits in her feet to be able to defeat her. I want to use these rules for all the other enemies as well. Invicible evil spirits and folklore creatures, invicible until they find their weaknesses.
How could I do that in terms of rules? She's immune to damage until those conditions are met or I just give her Regeneration that can only be interrupted by fruits on her feet? The other question regarding this is: For me it will be funny, but can it be fun for players as well? I have my doubts.

Problem 2: Magic in the setting. Although these creatures all have supernatural powers. The goal of the game is to be just like a supernatural movie or tale where the supernatural itself is scary for the players. If they are able to heal and to throw fireballs wouldn't it be less significant, less scary? Maybe I could use Masque of the Red Death rules of magic here, but it's just a thought.

Problem 3: With those problems in mind, the classes that left would still have their roles? I mean. Why would I use a greatsword as a fighter if what I need is not a greatsword and awesome melee abilities but a hint to my enemy's weakness?


Well, I don't mean to throw only these creatures upon them. I want to use wolves, construct dolls (imprisoned souls of little girls just like Okiku's doll) and things like that. The urban legends and those "invincible" creatures would be the Lords of the Domains, just like the regular ones: Strahd, Adam, Ivana, etc.

I can cover the healing easily with rest rules but I really want them to be unaware of the supernatural and arcane things.

What do you think? Can this work with D&D 5E or should I try another system? I just thought Ravenloft would fit perfectly.


On Magic: The magic avalable to players is mostly "Wizard Magic". It is understood by them, has specific variables, and overall is governed by logic. It's more an applied science than a mystery really. What you can do, is twist this creature's magic. Make it function in ways they won't understand. Make the fireball a continius effect that chases them down. Make a mage hand that is not limited to 5 pounds or attacking. Make them wonder for what they see. Perhaps make magic less reliable, by making spells need complex and even unethical components. Perhaps to even cast a fireball, you need a human heart instead of bat guano and sulfur. Or have them roll on a table for a random side-effect of casting a spell. It should not make it less interesting to be a spellcaster, just make it clear they are messing with stuff they don't understand fully. Maybe spell slots don't replenish by resting, and instead replenish by harnessing souls from creatures they kill. This way, you can forego the "magic is neutral, it's how you use it that matters", and go for purelly evil magic. A Warlock's patron may have a more active roll, demanding casual sacrifices and evil services or begoming an antagonist (never take away a Warlock's power as consequence to that though, it's a terible idea, and wrong lore-wise). A sorcerer might find that his Dragon Blood manifests evil urges, and might need a Cha save after casting too many spells, or get a flaw chosen by you, as the DM. A wizard might find it dificult to work in this logic-deprived world with his logic-basted spellcasting, and need sanity rolls (using the sanity variant rules) to keep it together. Or, he might, on the other hand embrace this chaotic madness and become power-thirsty. Druids might find that what they work with is not spirits of nature, but evil spirits representing the most petty aspects of Nature, and comunicating with those spirits may drive them to madness. Clerics might feel abandoned by their Deities, and turn to Darker Lords. Even vallant Paladins might feel abandoned and need to fight not turning Evil (Oathbreaker).

A good approach to make magic more scary is making it able to pervert a spellcaster to evil. This way, spellcasters don't only need to fight evil, but fight themselves in order not to turn evil. Make magic less of a "Deus Ex Machina" technology that helps, and more of a Faustian Deal.

[Garfunion]

This PDF for Innistrad may help.
http://d1bf78c87087c77d76ca-be4120a00702a7d33079a120750230c5.r45.cf1.rackcdn.c om/Plane%20Shift%20Innistrad%20SFG_2.pdf

I also use this map.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1_XLU6DrsM9elliSTBqYlBLaWs/view

[Hrugner]

In order to keep 5e at all relevant, you'll need to tie clues to defeat the enemy to the enemy's hit points. As the targets health reaches certain thresholds, the party learns something about the creature that can help them kill it. If the party figures out one of these things on their own, then the target's HP drops to the level at which they would have received the clue. All that's left is to require that the clues be followed for the finishing blow.

Hitting an opponent normally wouldn't give you much more information about the creature, so you'd need to give the players skills, equipment, or abilities, that would promote experimentation during combat. You may want to make them proficient with improvised weapons, give them a skill check at the thresholds to explain the inspiration, and give them things like material shifting weapons, quivers full of arrows made from exotic materials, spells with more choice in energy type, and so on.

The only major concern I'd have after these changes is that any future encounter would be trivialized, and some encounters may be trivialized off the bat with a good guess from the players.

[CaptainSarathai]

What do you think? Can this work with D&D 5E or should I try another system? I just thought Ravenloft would fit perfectly.

The thing about Ravenloft is that once you've *found* the creatures, it's just a standard combat to kill them.
5e (and D&D) is at heart, a combat game. Take that away and the classes and progressions stop being meaningful.
A game like FATE would work better here, something that doesn't need to be class and combat and progression driven.

The other issue that I foresee, is that you need to make sure that your players want to play a game like this. Also, you seem to understand a lot about Japanese folklore, which is awesome, but your players might not. You understand the lore and the kinds of tricks that they would need to use in order to overcome the creatures. They might not - especially when some of these things are very, very specific and just wierd. Using cucumber to repel a Kappa? Who the hell would ever think of that if they didn't know what a Kappa was before that session?

Personally, I would basically just re-skin Ravenloft or Innistrad and some monsters. Describe spells differently. Add in the 'Honor' variant from the DMG (based on Honor from Eastern Adventures / d20 L5R) and just let it ride. The biggest feature to change the setting would be the society itself. Ravenloft is very eastern European, you'd have to adjust those kinds of sensibilities to fit the Asian setting.

[Specter]

Problem 1: I don't want it to be a hack and slash game. I don't want them just to fight against a spirit reaping his/her HP off like fantasy games. I want them to find clues and the weakness of their enemy to be able to defeat them. Kuchisake-onna for example. I'd like them to use the right answers to get her confused (You are average looking or Am I Pretty? or Sorry, but I'm in a hurry) or to throw fruits in her feet to be able to defeat her. I want to use these rules for all the other enemies as well. Invincible evil spirits and folklore creatures, invincible until they find their weaknesses.
How could I do that in terms of rules? She's immune to damage until those conditions are met or I just give her Regeneration that can only be interrupted by fruits on her feet? The other question regarding this is: For me it will be funny, but can it be fun for players as well? I have my doubts.

Problem 2: Magic in the setting. Although these creatures all have supernatural powers. The goal of the game is to be just like a supernatural movie or tale where the supernatural itself is scary for the players. If they are able to heal and to throw fireballs wouldn't it be less significant, less scary? Maybe I could use Masque of the Red Death rules of magic here, but it's just a thought.

Problem 3: With those problems in mind, the classes that left would still have their roles? I mean. Why would I use a greatsword as a fighter if what I need is not a greatsword and awesome melee abilities but a hint to my enemy's weakness?

I have no idea as to what these monsters you mention are, but you have a simple problem.

#1: What your players need is a priori knowledge. They can see a corpse that was preserved in a block of ice (so they know cold is a bad tactic). They can find the letter of a man who confronted the spirit and survived, detailing what went wrong. Etc. It's easy if you do it beforehand. If you leave this learning to the actual combat, it will be either slow or non-existant (and players may resent you - "that monster you put there was unbeatable!").

#2: If you want to make it scary for the players, forget about the characters. Change the lighting, the soundtrackand the description of the place to evoke suspense, and let it rip. But even if you think of mechanics: are players supernatural wizards who can end any fight? Add dispellers, counterspellers, teleporters, controllers. Make them careful at every step.

#3: even with weaknesses and hints, damage is still damage.

[Silfazaris]

The thing about Ravenloft is that once you've *found* the creatures, it's just a standard combat to kill them.
5e (and D&D) is at heart, a combat game. Take that away and the classes and progressions stop being meaningful.
A game like FATE would work better here, something that doesn't need to be class and combat and progression driven.

The other issue that I foresee, is that you need to make sure that your players want to play a game like this. Also, you seem to understand a lot about Japanese folklore, which is awesome, but your players might not. You understand the lore and the kinds of tricks that they would need to use in order to overcome the creatures. They might not - especially when some of these things are very, very specific and just wierd. Using cucumber to repel a Kappa? Who the hell would ever think of that if they didn't know what a Kappa was before that session?

Personally, I would basically just re-skin Ravenloft or Innistrad and some monsters. Describe spells differently. Add in the 'Honor' variant from the DMG (based on Honor from Eastern Adventures / d20 L5R) and just let it ride. The biggest feature to change the setting would be the society itself. Ravenloft is very eastern European, you'd have to adjust those kinds of sensibilities to fit the Asian setting.

The players are actually friends I know for like 20 years, I know some of them would like to play. The idea is intentional. I know a lot about asian folklore, but they don't, that's the main reason this game could work because they wouldn't metagame because they know close to nothing about asian folklore.

About the monsters weaknesses, I would give them hints, put NPCs to talk to them and they also could have some dreams giving them some hints about how to face the creatures. But yeah, maybe you are right about the classes progressions and such, and that's why I came here, I still want to keep it as a D&D game (the only systems I have knowledge to DM are: AD&D, D&D 3.5, D&D 5E and Storyteller), so I bet I need to keep all the classes in the game.

The problem is, I don't want them to kill the mythical creatures (the spirits) just by depleting their HP. Like I said, they would work like Lords of the Domains, just like Strahd, Adam. IIRC you need some strategies and unique items to defeat those lords, otherwise they would rise again in their castle, tombs or whatever in a matter of days, just like a deity. That's my idea here. They could "defeat" a spirit, but then the spirit would rise back again in a matter of days and they would be stuck in that domain until they knew how to permanentely destroy the creature. For me there's no change here from the published Lords.

They would still fight normal creatures like I said before, and those combats would be normal, but I don't want them to feel they are fantasy heroes who can just hack and slash everything, but a group of skilled humans (yeah, no elf, dwarf or whatever in my idea of Asian campaign) trying to overcome mysteries of the supernatural.

From reading your post and the previous posts of the other guys I realized that touching too much in magic would make the classes meaningless, so maybe I keep magic just the way it is but following Asmotherion advices. A cleric would be much more like a priest from a monastic temple. A druid would be dealing with evil spirits related to nature, a wizard would be dealing with the mystic forces of the unknown and the sorcerer would be receiving his abilities from something related to his past, probably a spirit or even the devil himself. Magic would be corrupting or maybe it would give bad dreams and madness to the magic users, but the magic rules would be untouched (but following Ravenloft rules where some spells just doesn't work or work differently).

The Honor system is a must in my opinion.

I still want it to be a D&D game, that's why I came here to ask you guys for advices.

Thanks for your contribution, mate! And thanks for the others too

[Silfazaris]

I have no idea as to what these monsters you mention are, but you have a simple problem.

#1: What your players need is a priori knowledge. They can see a corpse that was preserved in a block of ice (so they know cold is a bad tactic). They can find the letter of a man who confronted the spirit and survived, detailing what went wrong. Etc. It's easy if you do it beforehand. If you leave this learning to the actual combat, it will be either slow or non-existant (and players may resent you - "that monster you put there was unbeatable!").

#2: If you want to make it scary for the players, forget about the characters. Change the lighting, the soundtrackand the description of the place to evoke suspense, and let it rip. But even if you think of mechanics: are players supernatural wizards who can end any fight? Add dispellers, counterspellers, teleporters, controllers. Make them careful at every step.

#3: even with weaknesses and hints, damage is still damage.

#1 Yes, Specter. I was thinking about giving them hints through dreams, or maybe a letter, a poem, things like that. I wouldn't throw them against the creatures without any knowledge. Maybe once, so they would see the power of the creature, and then they would flee and learn a bit about the creature and look for people and hints about how to destroy it.

#2: I'm very good at description, and sure I can use soundtracks. But I don't want a horror game based on urban legends to be full of casters counterspelling and dispelling stuff. I want magic to be dangerous and rare (but not non-existant)

[Specter]

#1 Yes, Specter. I was thinking about giving them hints through dreams, or maybe a letter, a poem, things like that. I wouldn't throw them against the creatures without any knowledge. Maybe once, so they would see the power of the creature, and then they would flee and learn a bit about the creature and look for people and hints about how to destroy it.

#2: I'm very good with description, and sure I can use soundtracks. But I don't want a horror game based on urban legends to be full of casters counterspelling and dispelling stuff. I want magic to be dangerous and rare (but not non-existant)

#1: Alright. Make sure they are the kind of guys that can really learn, otherwise they'll just throw themselves against the monster and die (and later blame you).

#2: Well, D&D's magic is inherently like that (players and monsters alike), so you'll need to either forbid high-level spellcasters, or forbid the spells you think will do the most damage to your campaign (like Simulacrum, for example).

[CaptainSarathai]

So, I have been thinking about this a bit more, and think I might have come up with something:

Allow only caster classes.
This means Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, and perhaps Druid, depending on flavor. Additionally, you could start the campaign at Lvl3 so that you could also include Paladin, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, and Element Monk.

Now, I know that you said you wanted to limit magic, but hear me out. You can limit magic this way: the world has a constant Anti-Magic Field. If the world is "functioning normally," then nobody can cast magic. When something supernatural occurs, however, it disrupts the field and allows magic to be cast.

Think of it the way the 'Silent Hill' games work - one minute you're walking through a normal rural town, and the next minute the walls are bleeding, doorknobs are screaming, and the rules of reality aren't just broken, they're ball-gagged and bent over a table.

What makes your characters powerful and "unique" among the mere masses of humans, is that they can fight fire with fire. When a rift like this opens, your party can go in there and harness that raw chaos to cast spells of their own.

The Anti-Magic Field could even play a part in the story. Maybe, long ago, someone was able to seal away the Other World behind the Anti-Magic barrier, but now, centuries have passed and the knowledge of magic and how to maintain the barrier has faded from the collective memory. People started to think that the magicians were just crazy old religious or superstitious folk, backward and ignorant of the changing world. But when the barrier began to fray, and monsters from half-forgotten nightmares began tearing their way back into reality, suddenly those "old fools" with their dusty books and scrolls don't seem so crazy after all.

This would take a bit of effort on your part. In "reality," your Wizard is forced to fight in melee or with a weapon, since he has no magic. This is cool, because the lack of strong combat characters could make your party feel a lot more "normal" in the regular daily world. You'll have to throw weaker encounters at them, since they are severely handicapped. In fact, even a low-CR thug would be dangerous to even a high-level Wizard trapped in an Anti-Magic Field.

When they do get to use their magic, it feels powerful and epic. The players are free to hammer away with the full might of their characters. Full Casters are nova-masters, so you could throw massively deadly Encounters at them and they would likely be just fine, as long as you don't throw them too often. The party would go from being afraid of a few thugs in an alley, to smashing apart ancient red dragons in some twisted alternate dimension.

The caster classes also focus on all of the "social" type skills; Cha, Wis, and Int. This makes all of your characters pretty good at being investigators rather than murder-hobos. This is why I might not even allow partial casters into the game; they would be good outside of the stranger realms, and could add muscle back to the party and re-inject some murder-hoboism. Although, that might not always be a bad thing, and the idea of a bodyguard with weak spells but lots of muscle and a big club is pretty cool.

Another thing I would definitely add are the Madness rules. I would also link them to magic. You flub a roll? Madness.
It would be cool to outlaw Sorcerers, and give everyone Spell Points rather than slots, and then open up the Metamagic abilities. All of 'em. Right away. But using one means rolling for sanity, as you push your mind to the breaking point and drink deeply of the chaos in the Other Realm to twist your spell in strange new ways.

In fact, this could actually make for a really fun "modern" campaign, as most of the real combat is done with spells, so you wouldn't have to worry about how to handle guns. Especially if it's truly set in Japan, where guns are pretty uncommon.

[Gastronomie]

-snip-
This is the most badass idea I have heard during this year.

By Asian horror, it seems you mean like Japanese urban fantasy (Kuchi Sake Onna, Hanako-San, Kokkuri-San, Teke-Teke). Well, for normal people it's impossible to "fight" these sorts of supernatural entities - "what" will your players be? Like, some urban legend variant of a Vampire Hunter? Or like CoC, just normal citizens who were suddenly thrown into the dark side of the universe (and gifted supernatural powers)?

(Also, if you're going for a solely Asian horror tone, maybe get rid of the wolves. Asian horror is about things that are unexplainable, and remain unexplainable even after meeting them face to face. Normal animals don't quite fit in such an atmosphere.

Perhaps, if you're to use animals, use something more disturbing. Snails… for instance.

Speaking of snails: Perhaps take a look at the manga series "Uzumaki" for some ideas to possibly borrow. And unrelated, but "Fuan no Tane (Seeds of Uneasiness)" is another great example of Asian Horror.)

[Silfazaris]

So, I have been thinking about this a bit more, and think I might have come up with something:

Allow only caster classes.
This means Wizard, Warlock, Sorcerer, Bard, Cleric, and perhaps Druid, depending on flavor. Additionally, you could start the campaign at Lvl3 so that you could also include Paladin, Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster, and Element Monk.

Now, I know that you said you wanted to limit magic, but hear me out. You can limit magic this way: the world has a constant Anti-Magic Field. If the world is "functioning normally," then nobody can cast magic. When something supernatural occurs, however, it disrupts the field and allows magic to be cast.

Think of it the way the 'Silent Hill' games work - one minute you're walking through a normal rural town, and the next minute the walls are bleeding, doorknobs are screaming, and the rules of reality aren't just broken, they're ball-gagged and bent over a table.

What makes your characters powerful and "unique" among the mere masses of humans, is that they can fight fire with fire. When a rift like this opens, your party can go in there and harness that raw chaos to cast spells of their own.

The Anti-Magic Field could even play a part in the story. Maybe, long ago, someone was able to seal away the Other World behind the Anti-Magic barrier, but now, centuries have passed and the knowledge of magic and how to maintain the barrier has faded from the collective memory. People started to think that the magicians were just crazy old religious or superstitious folk, backward and ignorant of the changing world. But when the barrier began to fray, and monsters from half-forgotten nightmares began tearing their way back into reality, suddenly those "old fools" with their dusty books and scrolls don't seem so crazy after all.

This would take a bit of effort on your part. In "reality," your Wizard is forced to fight in melee or with a weapon, since he has no magic. This is cool, because the lack of strong combat characters could make your party feel a lot more "normal" in the regular daily world. You'll have to throw weaker encounters at them, since they are severely handicapped. In fact, even a low-CR thug would be dangerous to even a high-level Wizard trapped in an Anti-Magic Field.

When they do get to use their magic, it feels powerful and epic. The players are free to hammer away with the full might of their characters. Full Casters are nova-masters, so you could throw massively deadly Encounters at them and they would likely be just fine, as long as you don't throw them too often. The party would go from being afraid of a few thugs in an alley, to smashing apart ancient red dragons in some twisted alternate dimension.

The caster classes also focus on all of the "social" type skills; Cha, Wis, and Int. This makes all of your characters pretty good at being investigators rather than murder-hobos. This is why I might not even allow partial casters into the game; they would be good outside of the stranger realms, and could add muscle back to the party and re-inject some murder-hoboism. Although, that might not always be a bad thing, and the idea of a bodyguard with weak spells but lots of muscle and a big club is pretty cool.

Another thing I would definitely add are the Madness rules. I would also link them to magic. You flub a roll? Madness.
It would be cool to outlaw Sorcerers, and give everyone Spell Points rather than slots, and then open up the Metamagic abilities. All of 'em. Right away. But using one means rolling for sanity, as you push your mind to the breaking point and drink deeply of the chaos in the Other Realm to twist your spell in strange new ways.

In fact, this could actually make for a really fun "modern" campaign, as most of the real combat is done with spells, so you wouldn't have to worry about how to handle guns. Especially if it's truly set in Japan, where guns are pretty uncommon.


The idea is very nice, but it's very close to Silent Hill and I don't know if it would fit in this sort of campaign. Still, I don't want to put a wizard to fight something with a stick. The madness/sanity idea is quite nice indeed.



This is the most badass idea I have heard during this year.

By Asian horror, it seems you mean like Japanese urban fantasy (Kuchi Sake Onna, Hanako-San, Kokkuri-San, Teke-Teke). Well, for normal people it's impossible to "fight" these sorts of supernatural entities - "what" will your players be? Like, some urban legend variant of a Vampire Hunter? Or like CoC, just normal citizens who were suddenly thrown into the dark side of the universe (and gifted supernatural powers)?

(Also, if you're going for a solely Asian horror tone, maybe get rid of the wolves. Asian horror is about things that are unexplainable, and remain unexplainable even after meeting them face to face. Normal animals don't quite fit in such an atmosphere.

Perhaps, if you're to use animals, use something more disturbing. Snails… for instance.

Speaking of snails: Perhaps take a look at the manga series "Uzumaki" for some ideas to possibly borrow. And unrelated, but "Fuan no Tane (Seeds of Uneasiness)" is another great example of Asian Horror.)


Uzumaki...Is this manga based on the movie? Or the movie based on the manga? Because the movie is very bad in my opinion hahaha.
Yes, I mean exactly like Kuchisake Onna, Teke-Teke, Kokkuri-san. I was thinking yesterday how to adapt Teke-Teke story to a feudal campaign and came to the idea of making her to be abused by strangers in a carriage at night in the road to a village because she got lost while trying to gather some flowers. Then, unable to move, the men yelled at her to leave the road, she couldn't, they just ran over her helpless body and split her in half.
Kokkuri-san would have to be something related to a letter put in a tree or some kind of board game.

"Or like CoC, just normal citizens who were suddenly thrown into the dark side of the universe (and gifted supernatural powers)?" This. Not the Sam and Dean Winchester type.

The idea of animals came from an idea on how to set Maria Labo (yeah, not Japanese, but Philippine). Being a "Lord" of a domain, her domain would be filled with animals affected by her hunger for human flesh. They would attack on sight and would feed primarly on human beings.
Maybe some Vrikolakas too.

Anyway, the Denizens of Darkness book already covers a nice quantity of asian creatures. There's Hebi-no-Onna, although she has two snakes in the place of her arms instead of half bottom body of a snake, but could be changed.

[Gastronomie]

Uzumaki...Is this manga based on the movie? Or the movie based on the manga? Because the movie is very bad in my opinion hahaha.There was a movie? In which case you should forget it. 99% of movie adaptations of Japanese manga/anime suck hard.


Yes, I mean exactly like Kuchisake Onna, Teke-Teke, Kokkuri-san. I was thinking yesterday how to adapt Teke-Teke story to a feudal campaign and came to the idea of making her to be abused by strangers in a carriage at night in the road to a village because she got lost while trying to gather some flowers. Then, unable to move, the men yelled at her to leave the road, she couldn't, they just ran over her helpless body and split her in half.This is just my personal view of Asian horror, but I'd rather it be like the players find not one, but multiple answers to the origin of the Teke-Teke. They don't know which is the truth, and will never be able to figure it out. Even after defeating the Teke-Teke, it'll remain a mystery.
Asian horror is very different from European horror. It's not about the monster that appears from the dark hallway, it's about the dark hallway from which the monsters might appear. It's not meant to be splatter and gore, but rather about a disturbing uneasiness and a fear that lingers on in the reader/viewer even after you finish the story.
If everything is made clear, it'll not be scary anymore. It remains scary because you still have no idea what it is.
...At least, that's what I think. This is your campaign, so feel free to do whatever you want.


The idea of animals came from an idea on how to set Maria Labo (yeah, not Japanese, but Philippine). Being a "Lord" of a domain, her domain would be filled with animals affected by her hunger for human flesh. They would attack on sight and would feed primarly on human beings.
Maybe some Vrikolakas too.

Anyway, the Denizens of Darkness book already covers a nice quantity of asian creatures. There's Hebi-no-Onna, although she has two snakes in the place of her arms instead of half bottom body of a snake, but could be changed.Personally, I feel these ideas are "European horror that has taken Asian motives", not "Asian horror".
Like, that "Hebi-no-Onna" is NOT Asian horror. That's something out of Greek Mythology or something. It scares people with how it's itself a monster - it doesn't scare people with the atmosphere in which it may secretly lurk.
First off, if it was purely Japanese, the name would be "Hebi-Onna", not "Hebi-no-Onna". And googling it up in Japanese, I couldn't find anything like the description you wrote.
Judging from the above, and the fact that its origin is a D&D supplement, chances are it's something created by the writers of the book, not something based on actual Japanese folklore. Take a look at the D&D "Gorgon" or "Lamia" and you'll understand that D&D books are not the ideal place to learn accurate information about monsters from folklore and myth.
So, again, you can feel free to use it because this is your campaign, but at least if I were to go for Asian horror, I would never use it.

[CaptainSarathai]

Personally, I feel these ideas are "European horror that has taken Asian motives", not "Asian horror".
Like, that "Hebi-no-Onna" is NOT Asian horror. That's something out of Greek Mythology or something. It scares people with how it's itself a monster - it doesn't scare people with the atmosphere in which it may secretly lurk.
First off, if it was purely Japanese, the name would be "Hebi-Onna", not "Hebi-no-Onna". And googling it up in Japanese, I couldn't find anything like the description you wrote.
Judging from the above, and the fact that its origin is a D&D supplement, chances are it's something created by the writers of the book, not something based on actual Japanese folklore. Take a look at the D&D "Gorgon" or "Lamia" and you'll understand that D&D books are not the ideal place to learn accurate information about monsters from folklore and myth.
So, again, you can feel free to use it because this is your campaign, but at least if I were to go for Asian horror, I would never use it.

In my experience, this isn't really an issue of East vs. West, so much as a difference in Print and Visual media.
I majored in English (and secondary education, I'm not a total idiot) in college, and I can tell you that Western horror books are very much the same as the Eastern folklore. The truly scary stuff isn't visual - it's mental. It's the exploration of the darkness that lurks just beneath the surface of ourselves or our society. The scariest monsters aren't the gore-dripping freakshow alien predators; it's the guy who turns to cannibalism out of desperation, and then decides that he likes it.

This is why Japanese folklore works the way that it does. It's about cautionary tales. Many of the legends start off with scorned women, like the Hannya and Oiwa. It's a warning to be faithful to your wife, or kind to women. The Yamauba is an old woman forced out of her village to live in the mountains: respect your elders. The Kuchisake-Onna is a lesson to not make a judgement until you have a full picture of the situation. Tengu are warnings against hypocrisy amongst the priesthood.

For Native Americans, the Wendigo is a warning against cannibalism. Gothic vampires were meant to caution against the hedonistic excesses of the time - it's little wonder that 'Camilla', a story which influenced Stoker's suave 'Dracula' was a story steeped in lesbianism.

In film, it's easy to take the lazy way out, and use gore and jump-scares, discordant music, or uncomfortable visuals to get a scare. Not so with print media; all but the most flowery descriptions of viscera and other frightful scenes will fall flat for the audience. Hearing about someone having their guts ripped out, is not nearly as traumatic as seeing it.

Incidentally, D&D "horror" works the same way. It's not about the descriptions or the "gore-porn" or even the ambient background music you might choose. It's not even really about the setting necessarily. It's one thing to tell your players that their characters should be scared. It's quite another to actually scare your players. To do this, you have to rely far more on literary methods, such as unreliable narrators, moral quandaries, and a gradual, desperate break-down of expectations.

When I run horror scenarios, I make use of lots of aids. I use an hourglass to time the players and reinforce a sense of urgency, so that they are always under stress and always afraid of what will happen if the sand runs out. I use small index cards so that I can pass secret notes to the players. Sometimes, someone will be given a card stating that they hear something the other characters can't. Or they'll receive a blank card, forcing the other players to wonder what's happening or of their ally is withholding information. I don't always tell players when they have passed or failed a check if it isn't immediately obvious, and sometimes I assign different DCs to different players.
When using the Madness rules, I don't tell players their results, I just apply them from behind the screen. If Jack's Barbarian is afraid of spiders, then when he peeps through the keyhole into the next room and sees an ordinary arachnid, I describe it to him as being massive and terrible, so that his Barbarian responds with a level of fear that is truly genuine and seems plenty rational to someone with a crippling fear of creepy-crawlies.
It requires a level of understanding from the players that you will not be an entirely honest narrator, but that you are still impartial and fair. You are just gaslighting them somewhat, because it is impossible not to metagame their characters, and the metagame is what destroys the horror and tension.

I have never run a successful horror campaign to completion. Good horror is best for 1-shots. It should be intense and it should stress-out and exhaust your players. I have had players who love this kind of stuff, and would have gladly come back for more, but I have always had too few of them, and instead, most of the party decided that once was enough, and wanted to wait a good, long time before being run back through that kind of mental and emotional wringer.

[Silfazaris]

There was a movie? In which case you should forget it. 99% of movie adaptations of Japanese manga/anime suck hard.

This is just my personal view of Asian horror, but I'd rather it be like the players find not one, but multiple answers to the origin of the Teke-Teke. They don't know which is the truth, and will never be able to figure it out. Even after defeating the Teke-Teke, it'll remain a mystery.
Asian horror is very different from European horror. It's not about the monster that appears from the dark hallway, it's about the dark hallway from which the monsters might appear. It's not meant to be splatter and gore, but rather about a disturbing uneasiness and a fear that lingers on in the reader/viewer even after you finish the story.
If everything is made clear, it'll not be scary anymore. It remains scary because you still have no idea what it is.
...At least, that's what I think. This is your campaign, so feel free to do whatever you want.

Personally, I feel these ideas are "European horror that has taken Asian motives", not "Asian horror".
Like, that "Hebi-no-Onna" is NOT Asian horror. That's something out of Greek Mythology or something. It scares people with how it's itself a monster - it doesn't scare people with the atmosphere in which it may secretly lurk.
First off, if it was purely Japanese, the name would be "Hebi-Onna", not "Hebi-no-Onna". And googling it up in Japanese, I couldn't find anything like the description you wrote.
Judging from the above, and the fact that its origin is a D&D supplement, chances are it's something created by the writers of the book, not something based on actual Japanese folklore. Take a look at the D&D "Gorgon" or "Lamia" and you'll understand that D&D books are not the ideal place to learn accurate information about monsters from folklore and myth.
So, again, you can feel free to use it because this is your campaign, but at least if I were to go for Asian horror, I would never use it.

Yeah, of course. I'm not taking the idea of hebi-no-onna description itself but I just looked over her stats and could convert her to 5E by using similar abilities but changing some stuff. I already made 4 darklords: two entirely based on Asian urban legends (did a lot of research on this), added some stuff for another without much info and created one by myself. To do those I relied primarly on stories, movies and texts, not on D&D's description.
I told you about my own idea of Teke-Teke's story, not that they will uncover the whole history and understand exactly what happened to her, it was a DM description of her true story to you. But maybe I can use a rule I always use for rumors and legends.
When I create a rumor or a legend in my games, I NEVER write the truth about them, even I don't know the true story about that legend and rumor. I find this to be very interesting. But, maybe to find a way to put Teke-Teke to rest peacefully they would need to know something about her legs. Maybe finding her boned legs into dust buried somewhere and then bringing them to her, the legs would take a form in the Etheral Plane and then she would be brought back to her original state in the Ethereal and thus would have her eternal peace, however, I could hide from them what really cut her body in half.

Thanks for your comments, I'm taking everything into consideration.:smallbiggrin:

[Silfazaris]

In my experience, this isn't really an issue of East vs. West, so much as a difference in Print and Visual media.
I majored in English (and secondary education, I'm not a total idiot) in college, and I can tell you that Western horror books are very much the same as the Eastern folklore. The truly scary stuff isn't visual - it's mental. It's the exploration of the darkness that lurks just beneath the surface of ourselves or our society. The scariest monsters aren't the gore-dripping freakshow alien predators; it's the guy who turns to cannibalism out of desperation, and then decides that he likes it.

This is why Japanese folklore works the way that it does. It's about cautionary tales. Many of the legends start off with scorned women, like the Hannya and Oiwa. It's a warning to be faithful to your wife, or kind to women. The Yamauba is an old woman forced out of her village to live in the mountains: respect your elders. The Kuchisake-Onna is a lesson to not make a judgement until you have a full picture of the situation. Tengu are warnings against hypocrisy amongst the priesthood.

For Native Americans, the Wendigo is a warning against cannibalism. Gothic vampires were meant to caution against the hedonistic excesses of the time - it's little wonder that 'Camilla', a story which influenced Stoker's suave 'Dracula' was a story steeped in lesbianism.

In film, it's easy to take the lazy way out, and use gore and jump-scares, discordant music, or uncomfortable visuals to get a scare. Not so with print media; all but the most flowery descriptions of viscera and other frightful scenes will fall flat for the audience. Hearing about someone having their guts ripped out, is not nearly as traumatic as seeing it.

Incidentally, D&D "horror" works the same way. It's not about the descriptions or the "gore-porn" or even the ambient background music you might choose. It's not even really about the setting necessarily. It's one thing to tell your players that their characters should be scared. It's quite another to actually scare your players. To do this, you have to rely far more on literary methods, such as unreliable narrators, moral quandaries, and a gradual, desperate break-down of expectations.

When I run horror scenarios, I make use of lots of aids. I use an hourglass to time the players and reinforce a sense of urgency, so that they are always under stress and always afraid of what will happen if the sand runs out. I use small index cards so that I can pass secret notes to the players. Sometimes, someone will be given a card stating that they hear something the other characters can't. Or they'll receive a blank card, forcing the other players to wonder what's happening or of their ally is withholding information. I don't always tell players when they have passed or failed a check if it isn't immediately obvious, and sometimes I assign different DCs to different players.
When using the Madness rules, I don't tell players their results, I just apply them from behind the screen. If Jack's Barbarian is afraid of spiders, then when he peeps through the keyhole into the next room and sees an ordinary arachnid, I describe it to him as being massive and terrible, so that his Barbarian responds with a level of fear that is truly genuine and seems plenty rational to someone with a crippling fear of creepy-crawlies.
It requires a level of understanding from the players that you will not be an entirely honest narrator, but that you are still impartial and fair. You are just gaslighting them somewhat, because it is impossible not to metagame their characters, and the metagame is what destroys the horror and tension.

I have never run a successful horror campaign to completion. Good horror is best for 1-shots. It should be intense and it should stress-out and exhaust your players. I have had players who love this kind of stuff, and would have gladly come back for more, but I have always had too few of them, and instead, most of the party decided that once was enough, and wanted to wait a good, long time before being run back through that kind of mental and emotional wringer.

I love your analysis, man. I studied primarly English and Portuguese languages and literature (I'm brazilian) in college. My graduation was English/Portuguese Literature.
That included british literature, north american literature, portuguese and brazilian literature. From Mary Shelly to Poe. I love horror stories. I started with the western horror stories and poems and I just love them, but, for me, they are poetic, they are beautiful and even sexy. Just like Lucifer story (or Satan or whatever). But again, for me they are just poetic, except by Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, none of them scaries me at all, and I'm being honest.
In the other hand, eastern legends and horror stories and poems just give me creeps. The idea of vengeance, retribution, punishment and justice, not just the twisted mind of someone who went crazy or obsessed with something.
I can't explain, and I don't mean to be racist or something of the like, but for me eastern horror is far scarier and more attractive than western horror. Maybe it's something personal, something of my own, but for me, the western horror and legends are justified occurrences, divine punishment and the true meaning of justice.

I'm not a guy who can be easily scared. I'm an atheist since I was born and I just can't believe supernatural stuff, I watch movies like Paranormal Activity and Ouija Board laughing...but, just staring at that image of the girl from the gap in a movie or listening to Tomino's Hell's poem give me hell of creeps and chills. They make me feel cold, confused and imagining hundreds of things and stories behind that, really evil intents and a carousel of feelings (like we say here in Brazil).

And I'm always in favor of the villains and the spirits, I found that they are given that existence in sad and unfair circumstances, but now they are back to make justice, and I also love how you can (possibly) revert their cursed existences by doing a repertoire of things, giving them a peaceful and eternal rest.

For me, the most attractive and charismatic villains are those who turned into villains led by unfairness, betrayal or a non-deserved death or huge loss, not the ones who are just sadists, psychopaths and crazy like Michael Myers (although my favorite Western Horror Movies' villain)

Ravenloft is my favorite D&D setting and I, just like you, never managed to finish a horror game campaign, but it has always been my dream since I started playing RPG back in 1996 and I'm going to try again. By setting completely different stories in different homebrew domains in an predominant Asian culture in the old feudal eras. Every enemy will have a completely different background and behavior and the domains will be completely different. I hope it's going to work since my players like asian characters and movies very much.

So, to finish my opinion. It varies from people to people, but FOR ME, IMHO, Eastern horror is scarier than Western horror.