Martial/Sneak Attack Prestige Class

[lbuttitta]

Is there a prestige class that advances both martial maneuvers and sneak attack, like Unseen Seer does for spells?
Thanks in advance! :smallbiggrin:

[Karl Aegis]

No. The Book of Nine Swords was published late in 3.5e and received little support afterwards. "Little" as in the errata for the book wasn't even correct.

[lbuttitta]

Hmm. Pity. Thanks anyway!

[Particle_Man]

The closest I can think of would be a prestige class that allows you to take a shadow hand stance, since there is "Assassin's Stance" that gives +2d6 on sneak attack.

[Rebel7284]

There are ways to get reasonably high sneak attack with some system mastery.

For example:
Cloistered Cleric 1/Hit and Run Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Mystic Ranger 2/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10

Between 1d6 natural sneak attack, craven adding character level to sneak attack, and Hunter's Eve being persisted, you have sneak attack on par with a rogue.

Alternatively, Unseen Seer can add Hunter's Eye to an arcane caster and then Jade Phoenix Mage can advance it.

So something like Swordsage 3/Hit and Run Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Wizard 1/Unseen Seer 2/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/Incanatrix 3

[lbuttitta]

In this case, I would really prefer to get 9th-level maneuvers like Time Stands Still to combine with Raging Mongoose. Sneak Attack is really an afterthought; I'm planning out a glass cannon build to get 30+ attacks in one round/day with Belt of Battle. I'm a bit fuzzy on Tome of Battle rules, would either of the proposed builds give 9th-level maneuvers?
If not, I'll ask my DM to allow a homebrew prestige class.

[Karl Aegis]

Warblade with Hand Crossbow Focus and two splitting great crossbows. Add in Crossbow sniper and Greater Two-Weapon Fighting. Get a high dexterity. Raging Mongoose and Time Stands Still one round and just full attack the other. Reload as a free action with Hand Crossbow Focus. Probably should have Blood in the Water to take advantage of the increased critical hit range of the great crossbow.

[Gildedragon]

I was gonna suggest maybe backporting a path of war prc, but I checked at the pfsrd and there doesn't seem to be one there either. There's the Umbral Blade which is sorta sneak-attack-y, but seems more an initiating Assassin than a rogue (esp with the Nongood req)

[Psyren]

Doesn't every class (slowly) advance maneuvers? Not a perfect solution, but...

[Rebel7284]

Doesn't every class (slowly) advance maneuvers? Not a perfect solution, but...

Well yes, but I assume the OP doesn't want to wait until level 33 to dip a TOB class to pick up Time Stands Still on an otherwise typical sneak attacker. :)


In this case, I would really prefer to get 9th-level maneuvers like Time Stands Still to combine with Raging Mongoose. Sneak Attack is really an afterthought; I'm planning out a glass cannon build to get 30+ attacks in one round/day with Belt of Battle. I'm a bit fuzzy on Tome of Battle rules, would either of the proposed builds give 9th-level maneuvers?
If not, I'll ask my DM to allow a homebrew prestige class.

The rules on multiclassing ToB are as follows:
1. Levels in a ToB base class add +1 initiator level for that class. (and +0.5 for other ToB base classes)
2. Prestige classes that improve initiator level do so for ALL initiator classes the character has.
3. Any other class or prestige class adds 0.5 initiator level.

Because these values are calculated at each level, order matters a fair amount.
So let's take the RKV build. Since you want Time Stands Still, I am adding warblade in there:
Cloistered Cleric 1/Hit and Run Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Mystic Ranger 1/Warblade 1/Crusader 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Master of Nine 5



Level
Class
Notes


1
Cleric
IL 0.5


2
Fighter
IL 1


3
Mystic Ranger
IL 1.5


4
Warblade
IL 2.5 Warblade (first level maneuvers max)


5
Crusader
IL 3 Warblade (can't pick any more maneuvers even though qualifies for second level now), IL 3 Crusader (second level maneuvers)


6
RKV
IL 4 Warblade, IL 4 Crusader


7
RKV
IL 5 Warblade, IL 5 Crusader


8
RKV
IL 6 Warblade, IL 6 Crusader


9
RKV
IL 7 Warblade, IL 7 Crusader


10
RKV
IL 8 Warblade, IL 8 Crusader


11
RKV
IL 9 Warblade, IL 9 Crusader


12
RKV
IL 10 Warblade, IL 10 Crusader


13
RKV
IL 11 Warblade, IL 11 Crusader


14
RKV
IL 12 Warblade, IL 12 Crusader


15
RKV
IL 13 Warblade, IL 13 Crusader


16
Master of 9
IL 14 Warblade, IL 14 Crusader


17
Master of 9
IL 15 Warblade, IL 15 Crusader


18
Master of 9
IL 16 Warblade, IL 16 Crusader


19
Master of 9
IL 17 Warblade, IL 17 Crusader. Enjoy your Time Stands Still!


20
Master of 9
IL 18 Warblade, IL 18 Crusader



For sneak attack, you first need to check with your DM about how Mystic Ranger's caster level works. Technically it says that "everything not explicitly mentioned is as ranger", but ranger also says that caster level is 0 before level 4 and 1/2 after... which just doesn't works with Mystic Ranger progression. Assuming it's +1 CL at every level as it should be, your sneak attack at level 20 will be 1d6 Fighter + 2d6 Assassin's Stance + 6d6 Hunter's Eye + character level = 9d6+20
Hunter's Eye is calculated as base caster level 9 + 4 Practiced Spellcaster + 4 Bead of Karma + 1 Orange Prism Ioun Stone =18

Some things about this build:
- I have not double checked the feat progression. I expect that you can fit in both Divine Metamagic Persistent Spell and Master of Nine Prerequisites.
- The build can lose a level of initiator progression and still get double 9s in maneuvers.
- It may be worth it to take another level of Mystic Ranger somewhere in there to get 5th level spells.
- Sword of the Arcane Order feat would allow you to cast Wizard Spells from your Ranger Slots and thus allow things like (Draconic) Polymorph into Kelvezu to boost your sneak attack by 8d6 for a total of 17d6 +20 (poor rogue)
- Different prestige TOB prestige class can be substitutes instead of Master of Nine to save feats. They all give a lot less maneuvers, but you do need your feats. :)

edit: just realized that Sword of the Arcane Order doesn't quite work here due to requiring Ranger 4. Still can be done, but needs a change in the build.

[DarkSonic1337]

I kind feel like Craven and a couple sneak attack boosting items are all you need to be a competent sneak attacker.

Get 1d6 from a class, 1d6 from a rogue's vest, 1d6 from the deadly precision weapon enchantment, and +character level from craven.

[weckar]

If you can SA reliably, there is a breaking point where getting more dice becomes subpar to picking up more BAB for iteratives -- or in this case martial maneuvers that allow multiple attack rolls.

In both cases, relative gain is constantly slowing down because absolute gain is (relatively) absolute.

But, as mentioned, SA granting classes advance maneuvers while maneuver granting classes mostly don't advance SA. This moves the breaking point backward.

I'd have to figure the math for different configurations, but I feel the sweet spot may be around 6d6 SA...

[Rebel7284]

Bonus: here is a build that avoids Master of Nine to save a bunch of feats

Cloistered Cleric 1/Mystic Ranger 4/Hit and Run Fighter 1/Warblade 1/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/Jade Phoenix Mage 1/Warblade +2

Use Devoted Spirit Amulet for 3000GP to qualify for Martial Stance (or be a Human and take Martial Study)

Initiator Level 17, caster level 16 with practiced spellcaster (21 after items). 19 BAB

Feats:
Knowledge Devotion (bonus)
Law Devotion (bonus)
1. Extend Spell
3. Persistent Spell
6. Martial Stance
9. Sword of the Arcane Order
12. Divine Metamagic [Persistent Spell]
15. Craven
18. Practiced Spellcaster Mystic Ranger
Besides Martial stance, feat order is fairly flexible.

Also consider Alternate Spell Source if you are Human to Persist Draconic Polymorph to be a Kelvezu all day long.

You do need to worship two gods for Sword of the Arcane Order + RKV, but with overlapping portfolios (Magic) that should not actually be a huge issue. Your DM's mileage may vary.

[Psyren]

Well yes, but I assume the OP doesn't want to wait until level 33 to dip a TOB class to pick up Time Stands Still on an otherwise typical sneak attacker. :)

Apologies - I only read the opening post and didn't realize the OP was aiming to get 9th-level maneuvers. I don't know nearly enough about ToB to help with that.