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fattybear
2017-04-21, 09:59 PM
Feedback welcome. It is a broad archetype that allows players to inject whatever flavor they'd like, similar to the Champion archetype.


Fighter Archetype: Veteran
The archetypal veteran always finds a way to pull through the toughest battles through rigorous conditioning and understanding the flow of battle. Those who strive to become veterans use tactical savvy with gut instincts to know when to strike hardest and turn the tide of battle. Veterans make up for specialization with well rounded capabilities.

Battle Conditioned Body:
At level 3, you fighter hit die are now d12 instead of d10. The total amount of hit points you had at the time you gain this feature is unchanged.

Improved Second Wind:
Starting at level 3, you are able to rally yourself when the battle is at its toughest, turning the tide in your favor. When you use the Second Wind feature, you may immediately make one weapon attack with advantage. In addition, you can expend hit dice in the middle of battle in a similar manner to a short rest. The amount of hit die you can choose to expend is equal to your proficiency bonus.

Skill Mastery:
At level 7, choose one of your skill proficiencies. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check made with the chosen proficiency. In addition, you gain proficiency in one fighter skill of your choice.

Adrenaline Rush:
Beginning at level 10, when you use the Action Surge feature, your walking speed is increased by 15 feet until the end of your turn and you do not trigger opportunity attacks.

Legendary Action:
When you reach level 15, you may choose to use the Action Surge feature after a creature other than yourself ends its turn. You cannot use a bonus action. You still gain the benefits of the Adrenaline Rush feature, allowing you to move up to 15 feet without provoking opportunity attacks.

Unstoppable:
At level 18, you regain one use of the Indomitable feature after a short rest if you had no more uses remaining. When you reroll a saving throw using the Indomitable feature, add your proficiency bonus to the reroll if you have not done so already.

DeAnno
2017-04-22, 03:28 AM
Battle Conditioned Body:
At level 3, you gain one additional fighter hit die.

Improved Second Wind:
Starting at level 3, you are able to rally yourself when the battle is at its toughest, turning the tide in your favor. When you use the Second Wind feature, you may immediately make one weapon attack with advantage. In addition, you can expend hit dice in the middle of battle in a similar manner to a short rest. The amount of hit die you can choose to expend is equal to your proficiency bonus.

The rules here are a little awkward. You gain an extra HD without gaining hp with it? Might be better to simulate that by just making all the Fighter HD d12s instead of d10s (and it scales better, too.)

The Second Wind thing is pretty cool, though it's sort of "Action Surge: Lesser", which isn't bad, but a bit samey. Do you expend HD in the middle of the battle at the same time you use Second Wind?

GalacticAxekick
2017-04-22, 04:05 AM
Battle Conditioned Body:
At level 3, you gain one additional fighter hit die. This is actually pretty underwhelming. This is 1d10+Con (6+Con) hit points. At 3rd level, the extra 5-to-9 hit points will feel great! Later on, those 5-to-11 hit points will be a drop in the bucket.

Increasing the Fighter's hit die to a d12 would mean a smaller bonus at first (+3 hit points for 1st, 2nd and 3rd level), but add up to a larger bonus (+20 hit points!) that doesn't depend on your investment in Constitution.


Improved Second Wind:
Starting at level 3, you are able to rally yourself when the battle is at its toughest, turning the tide in your favor. When you use the Second Wind feature, you may immediately make one weapon attack with advantage. In addition, you can expend hit dice in the middle of battle in a similar manner to a short rest. The amount of hit die you can choose to expend is equal to your proficiency bonus.Making an attack during Second Wind seems gratuitous; Fighters already deal unmatched damage to single foes. The advantage is even moreso. That aspect of this feature isn't helping the Fighter do anything new, nor covering her weaknesses, but just adding damage.

The ability to spend hit dice at any time, as you would during a short rest, much more interesting to me. I'd erase the former part of the feature and expand on the latter. Maybe allow the Fighter to spend hit dice to cure certain conditions or secure buffs!


Skill Mastery:
At level 7, choose one of your skill proficiencies. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check made with the chosen proficiency. In addition, you gain proficiency in one fighter skill of your choice.A lesser form of Expertise. Not uncalled for, but a bit underwhelming and samey.


Adrenaline Rush:
Beginning at level 10, when you use the Action Surge feature, your walking speed is increased by 15 feet until the end of your turn and you do not trigger opportunity attacks.Action Surge normally grants one action. With this feature, Action Surge grants two and a half: Disengage, half a Dash and whatever the player uses the surge itself for.

I think this might be too powerful. I appreciate that it's focused on giving the Fighter greater mobility, but I think a better way to do that would be offering a smaller, unlimited buff to the Fighter's mobility, similar to a Monk's Unarmoured Movement, a Rogue's Cunning Action and Second-Storey Work.


Legendary Action:
When you reach level 15, you may choose to use the Action Surge feature after a creature other than yourself ends its turn. You cannot use a bonus action. Giving a PC Legendary Actions is actually a really fun idea! I'm a big fan of using monster mechanics for non-monsters.


Unstoppable:
At level 18, you regain one use of the Indomitable feature after a short rest if you had no more uses remaining. When you reroll a saving throw using the Indomitable feature, add your proficiency bonus to the reroll if you have not done so already.Granting the Fighter proficiency in any save made with indomitable seems gratuitous to me. I think additional uses of Indomitable is fairly strong on its own: maybe letting it recover after short rests instead of long rests, for instance.


Overall I appreciate the flexibility of this archetype, though I think it mostly makes the Fighter better at what it already does instead of offering new tools.

It's tangential, but I have to say I love the idea of a PC Legendary Action, and it gets me thinking about what a "Monster" class might look like, with archetypes acquired at 1st level, each focused on a slow transformation into a Aberation, Beast, Celestial, Construct, Dragon, Elemental, Fey, Fiend, Giant, Monstrosity, Ooze, Plant or Undead, offering things like monster features, natural weapons, innate spellcasting, Legendary and Lair actions, unique sizes and so forth.

DeAnno
2017-04-22, 04:29 AM
Making an attack during Second Wind seems gratuitous; Fighters already deal unmatched damage to single foes. The advantage is even moreso. That aspect of this feature isn't helping the Fighter do anything new, nor covering her weaknesses, but just adding damage.

The ability to spend hit dice at any time, as you would during a short rest, much more interesting to me. I'd erase the former part of the feature and expand on the latter. Maybe allow the Fighter to spend hit dice to cure certain conditions or secure buffs!

I'm a little concerned that if you take the extra attack away, the level 3 is too weak and underwhelming as a whole to compete with the power of Battlemaster, or even Champion or EK. Fighter is a class that traditionally has a quite strong level 3. It definitely doesn't fit with the features though; maybe add in a free dodge action to the second wind?


Action Surge normally grants one action. With this feature, Action Surge grants two and a half: Disengage, half a Dash and whatever the player uses the surge itself for.

While it's technically two and a half actions, I think that the Disengage and half-Dash are frankly quite overcosted in that computation and don't provide the sort of value that suggests (much like the Dodge I suggest for the level 3.) As a whole I find the ability pretty reasonable as an extra little jot of mobility when you Action Surge.


Overall I appreciate the flexibility of this archetype, though I think it mostly makes the Fighter better at what it already does instead of offering new tools.

I'm getting a vibe that this is "Champion, but different, and more focused on per-encounter than at-will abilities." It could maybe use a bit more of an identity (and/or a stronger tie to the Veteran theme), but Champion doesn't really have much of an identity either.


It's tangential, but I have to say I love the idea of a PC Legendary Action, and it gets me thinking about what a "Monster" class might look like, with archetypes acquired at 1st level, each focused on a slow transformation into a Aberation, Beast, Celestial, Construct, Dragon, Elemental, Fey, Fiend, Giant, Monstrosity, Ooze, Plant or Undead, offering things like monster features, natural weapons, innate spellcasting, Legendary and Lair actions, unique sizes and so forth.

I actually did something like this with The Beast (sig) in 3.5e, but you bringing it up actually makes me think it would be more feasible in this edition. Things like Legendary and Lair actions are around, and the scaling/tiering isn't as exponential/broke which gives a lot more room for it to be good while not looking absurd alongside traditional PC melee like Fighter and Barbarian.

fattybear
2017-04-22, 01:25 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. I wanted to see how it'd go where instead of offering specialized new features, I simply improved upon the basic fighter features. So while they can't use magic or get maneuvers, they can do fighter things better than other fighters. Thus, the better second wind, action surge, indomitable, skills, and additional hit die. The identity of the archetype is meant to be provided by the PC instead of the archetype itself.

For Battled Conditioned Body, I much like the d12 idea better.

For Improved Second Wind, I added the attack because I envisioned the feature as a way for the character to really fight back and swing the battle in your favor when things are looking grim. The attack adds a minor offensive boost so it doesn't get completely eclipsed by better criticals, magical attacks, and maneuvers that the other archetypes get.

For Unstoppable, I agree that adding proficiency to the Indomitable roll might be a bit much. I wasn't sure if the L18 feature was enough so added that. It's easy enough to remove if it seems too powerful.

Amnoriath
2017-04-22, 06:59 PM
Feedback welcome. It is a broad archetype that allows players to inject whatever flavor they'd like, similar to the Champion archetype.


Fighter Archetype: Veteran
The archetypal veteran always finds a way to pull through the toughest battles through rigorous conditioning and understanding the flow of battle. Those who strive to become veterans use tactical savvy with gut instincts to know when to strike hardest and turn the tide of battle. Veterans make up for specialization with well rounded capabilities.

Battle Conditioned Body:
At level 3, you fighter hit die are now d12 instead of d10. The total amount of hit points you had at the time you gain this feature is unchanged.

Improved Second Wind:
Starting at level 3, you are able to rally yourself when the battle is at its toughest, turning the tide in your favor. When you use the Second Wind feature, you may immediately make one weapon attack with advantage. In addition, you can expend hit dice in the middle of battle in a similar manner to a short rest. The amount of hit die you can choose to expend is equal to your proficiency bonus.

Skill Mastery:
At level 7, choose one of your skill proficiencies. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check made with the chosen proficiency. In addition, you gain proficiency in one fighter skill of your choice.

Adrenaline Rush:
Beginning at level 10, when you use the Action Surge feature, your walking speed is increased by 15 feet until the end of your turn and you do not trigger opportunity attacks.

Legendary Action:
When you reach level 15, you may choose to use the Action Surge feature after a creature other than yourself ends its turn. You cannot use a bonus action. You still gain the benefits of the Adrenaline Rush feature, allowing you to move up to 15 feet without provoking opportunity attacks.

Unstoppable:
At level 18, you regain one use of the Indomitable feature after a short rest if you had no more uses remaining. When you reroll a saving throw using the Indomitable feature, add your proficiency bonus to the reroll if you have not done so already.
Overall I don't see any balance issues, but I do think it lacks some specific flavor that would distinguish itself and that perhaps a couple of features don't quite fit.
1. Second Wind is decent when you get it so improving it on your first subclass not only is against the traditional martial archetype format it also is increasing it when it needs it the least while advancing outside your class level. I would make this your 10th level feature eliminating the extra attack and instead removing conditions such as Frightened, Stunned, or the like.
2. GalacticAxekick does have a point though it only could at most be used twice per short rest, however it has a skirmisher mechanic to which it doesn't feel quite in place within this archetype. It also is better than the Disengage action as it is a blanket immunity. I would instead move this to 3 and look at the Open Hand Mastery feature for inspiration choosing between some actions on top of Action Surge.
3. While Skill Mastery does recognize that a veteran could choose to dabble in anything I think it is important that its utility is also grounded in the flavor of a veteran. Expertise may be a little OP, so I would instead focus on something like having detailed knowledge of wars or the like that require no skill check. Almost like a strong Background feature while choosing a skill of your choice instead.
4. One of the things that actually lack in this archetype is that your 15th level feature really doesn't add anything. It just removes a barrier for Action Surge.
5. Unstoppable is pretty good as is though personally if you spend most of your levels boosting Fighter features I would instead do something like this. "At level 18 if you would roll for initiative and you would have no uses for either Action Surge, Indomitable, or Second Wind you may choose to regain one use for one of the features,"

GalacticAxekick
2017-04-22, 11:20 PM
For Improved Second Wind, I added the attack because I envisioned the feature as a way for the character to really fight back and swing the battle in your favor when things are looking grim. The attack adds a minor offensive boost so it doesn't get completely eclipsed by better criticals, magical attacks, and maneuvers that the other archetypes get. This might be my personal design philosophy, but I think the best features are the most flexible.

Second Wind offers healing, but it doesn't specify the context for that healing. Sometimes you're trading blows, but sometimes you're being attacked by someone you'd rather talk to, restrain or run away from. Sometimes you're being hurt by a trap or hazard. Sometimes being cured of a status effect will help you a lot more than making one attack (especially at higher levels, where the value of a single attack is steadily dropping).

An Improved Second Wind that gives you a free attack is only useful when you need to make one extra attack. I think an Improved Second Wind that focuses in healing, curing and buffing would be much more flexible.

The Zoat
2017-04-24, 01:23 AM
Small piece of feedback: the "Skill Mastery" feature is named very generally, it might as well just be called 'expertise' for how much it distinguishes the feature. Perhaps something like "Learned from Experience"?

fattybear
2017-04-26, 10:35 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Gotta go back to the drawing board on this one.