Negative ID

[Naez]

Monster checks in dnd are generally 10+HD of the monster to positively ID it and remember a bit about it. What I'd like to know is how high should the check be to negatively ID a creature? Basically to say "No it's definitely not X."

The reason I bring this up is I had an interesting idea to throw a new group against a zombie uprising happening in this small city, which is not uncommon for low level adventurers. But I was thinking that they wouldn't actually be zombies, they'd be animated objects, because a ravid had gotten into the town's catacombs and corpses and skeletons are objects. So what would the player's need to roll to figure out that what they're up against isn't actually zombies?

[WarKitty]

I'd say whatever the DC to identify a zombie would be.

[frogglesmash]

I'd say whatever the DC to identify a zombie would be.

In this specific case you might want to bump the DC up by 10 since they look so similar to zombies. I chose 10 because that's the bonus most polymorph spells give you on disguise checks.

[OldTrees1]

I'd say whatever the DC to identify a zombie would be.

This would be the natural consequence from RAW.

If it were a zombie, I would know that.
I don't know if it is or is not a zombie, therefore it is not a zombie.
P->Q, !Q->!P

[Deophaun]

The reason I bring this up is I had an interesting idea to throw a new group against a zombie uprising happening in this small city, which is not uncommon for low level adventurers. But I was thinking that they wouldn't actually be zombies, they'd be animated objects, because a ravid had gotten into the town's catacombs and corpses and skeletons are objects. So what would the player's need to roll to figure out that what they're up against isn't actually zombies?
The problem is zombie is a template, so there's no fixed DC that will tell you what's in front of you isn't a zombie: it could just be a humanoid with a lot of racial HD that you've never seen before.

[Albions_Angel]

So, the way I run it, Zombies tend to be identified on a DC 12, regardless of type. The trick is, you get that its a zombie, you DONT get its type unless you beat that. Its pretty easy to see its a zombie. It shuffles, it moans, it seems to take no intelligent action, its arm keeps falling off. But is it an Ogre zombie? A Troll zombie? What if it has additional things? Is it half giant, or just big?

If you get something like a ghoul or ghast and miss its DC, then I might decide you think its a zombie, but I have no hard or fast rules for that.

If you want something more concrete, I suggest one of two ways.

ACTIVE bluff: Give the creatures +5 or so to bluff for looking like zombies or skeletons. Then roll a single bluff check for the group. Say you end up with 18. Thats now the DC to identify them as animated objects, not zombies.

PASSIVE bluff: Give them +5 (or +10, or whatever) as a bonus to bluff, and then their DC is simply 10 + Bluff bonus. This might be better if you have several different animated object types as it will potentially allow for different bonuses to bluff and thus different DCs.

[Zombimode]

Monster checks in dnd are generally 10+HD of the monster to positively ID it and remember a bit about it.

Actually its 10+CR. The rules got updated in MM5. Type specific information is a flat DC 15, unless otherwise specified.

... not that it really adresses the underlying problem with the approach of making the DC dependent on how tough a creature is.

[ben-zayb]

Seems like this needs a Knowledge (Arcana) check instead to identify it as an Animated Object; ergo, not a zombie.

[Socksy]

Have they fought zombies before? Intelligence check of maybe DC 15 for them to remember small differences.

Have they tried turning/rebuking undead, casting Hide From Undead, or similar?

Detect Magic would have them ping as Transmutation rather than Necromancy. Detect Undead or Detect Evil wouldn't have them ping at all.

I'd say have them roll a difficult (DC 25?) Knowledge (Arcana) or Spellcraft check to identify them as animated objects, and if that fails and they've fought zombies before, use an Intelligence check to spot small differences. "These guys seem to be moving faster and more competently, although they still seem mindless."