PLAYERS that irk you as a player??

[KleineVampir]

Hey guys... Alright, I got pissed off at my d&d session last night and I woke up pissed off about it still! I just can't get over it this time!

Alright, so I just want to say that my friends are usually really great friends but sometimes they totally piss me off and are annoying, and this is one of those times. So the DM and one of the players are brothers, both my friends for a long time. But I want to preface by saying they are brothers and sometimes they will give each other benefit of the doubt and stuff like that...they can be biased in whatever way suits them, especially the guy playing this character. Yes they are those sorts of people. May seem minor but I'm thinking it may be an important contextual detail in this case.

So this guy, who has been my friend for years and we generally get along, basically made the most annoying character of all time. I mean at least to me. I'm sure some other people here would be annoyed too though. I generally like him because he's a smart guy, but I guess I don't like the way he plays D&D sometimes because of the ways he tries to exploit every little thing about it, and go against the spirit of the game. Frankly, both of these brothers are high-functioning autistic kids, and the idea of "The spirit of the game" is totally lost on them. They just see the rules but they don't read between the lines or understand that D&D is meant to be played a certain way. They also haven't been in other D&D games, and I have, btw. So they have practically no perspective. Only as much as I've provided and they don't always listen to me. (This is one of those times..)

So alright, about his character: It's a female gnome wizard, age 15. Ok that's already annoying and goes against the spirit of the game because a wizard should not be 15 years old. Or if it was, it would be a total prodigy which is also really annoying. But that isn't all guys: It's also a character who rolled the most amazing stats ever. This character, at level 6 right now, has 17 AC and 72 hit points. Yes, a little 15 year old gnome girl. 20 int, 18 con, 18 dex...

And that's not all. It's also an extremely immature gnome who is constantly playing tricks on people. Like I made a ranger dude with a wolf, and the first thing she does is cast a minor illusion of a steak on the ground... Tell me that isn't annoying as hell. And yeah apparently my wolf didn't have the discipline to not go after it.

It's like everything she does is designed to take away as much dignity from people as possible, a notion I'm totally against and they should dang well know that about me.

So ok, if I was that pissed off I could just kill her, right? What's a little gnome girl going to do against a dude with a shield and sword, a cloak of protection, and a wolf? Well! Last time on D&D, last night, I straight up attacked her after she made our dwarf paladin's nose glow neon pink. (Like anybody would know what neon pink is back in the medieval days...but that concept is also apparently lost on them.) I was going to give her a chance in that session, but that was literally the first thing she did. I stabbed her with my rapier for a meager 11 damage, on a crit, then she used fog cloud, and then rope trick and hid like a little b****. Yes, that happened.

So basically, she's annoying in every way, and I can't kill her either...which makes her even more annoying. Also I made my character with 20 AC with his shield on, and I didn't put everything into Con...I put some into charisma for RPing purposes. He's a noble and I figured he would most likely have charisma instead of a bunch of toughness. Excuse me for not rolling all 18's. Also note, I'm a proponent of rolling your stats randomly and of course he rolls all 18's on this character. Totally the bane of my existence. (Ok not literally all 18's, but 3 18's and I think he has a +2, a +1, and a 0.)

And yeah even if I fought her head on, I'd probably lose because he has high AC but only 40 health. Lo and behold, she knows magic missile, meaning my AC counts for nothing and she can hit me for about 18 a couple times. Oh and don't you know she has the conjuration school perk so she can teleport a crapload too. It refreshes ever time she uses a conjuration spell level 1 or higher. And with mage armor, she has 17 AC and 72 health like I said. I even caught her after using a lot of her spells, but after the rope trick, I had to wait up to an hour, so I "released aggro" on her because sure I guess he made his feelings known and also made her run away. So probably not just gonna attack her on sight again I guess. So of course I end up letting her grab a few more spells with arcane recovery and now she's totally unbeatable again. Not only that, but the part will try to prevent me from fighting her, so it's not like me and my party even feel the same way about this.

Excuse me, but the rest is just rambling and venting. Read at your own risk!

Then the session proceeds to put us in an 'airship' like a zeppelin kind of thing, which shouldn't exist in D&D but of course our DM is a fan of steampunk and thinks that everything in D&D would be more advanced because of "technomagic" and so forth. I kinda get that, but it gets even more ridiculous. So we actually somehow get this thing to fly which I find very hard to believe. I mean it's a paladin and a monk, and they get this airship to fly? Ok... Then they even find something that's like a modern device that allows them to communicate with the "company" who controls the whole airship thing. And of course he talks while being interrupted by white noise, another concept completely and utterly alien to the D&D world.

Believe it or not, we proceed to fly this thing into a dark cloud that's also invisible for some reason. Turns out it's some kind of advanced technomagic airship of enormous proportions that flies around and blows stuff up I guess. Anyways the rest keeps me thinking about Star Wars because there's some kind of battle going on between this ship and smaller airships like the one we're in. Of course only one player has vague control over the ship and every other player is just standing around with nothing to do other than to observe all this completely absurdity. That one attack I did? Yeah that was like all I did the entire 6 hour session that is an hour drive away. Yep.

We end up landing in an enormous bay inside the huge airship, and some other airships land next to us. So at this point, it really is like those bays in Star Wars where ships land and take off from. Yeah you might think this is actually kind of cool, and yeah it kind of is, but this is D&D. It's supposed to just be fantasy and medieval, and this is, once again, annoyingly stretching the boundaries of the game. It was very hard for me to take the session seriously at all at this point. And you know, I might be able to forgive this if it was the first wild thing that's happened, but trust me even crazier things have happened in the past. We've even been to weird places with no gravity in between dimensions somehow... The DM has a history of making things totally unbelievable and over-the-top. He has a taste for that kind of thing and I don't. I just can't suspend that much disbelief. I just feel like it's all one big joke and none of this would ever happen, so I stop taking the session seriously.

Oh and this gnome wizard is also "chaotic good." Does playing tricks on people against their will even go along with that alignment? Once again, pushing it...

Anyways please pardon me for venting so much, but maybe it will be entertaining for you guys to read. Tell me what you think about the situation and maybe share some stories about players annoying the heck out of you.

Edit: I also wanted to make the argument that since playing all these tricks is so annoying that my character would leave the party, that his character was making the group dysfunctional which I believe to, at the very least, go against the spirit of the game and possibly against the actual rules. In my understanding, the characters are supposed to work together. When it gets to the point that one of the characters wouldn't even want to stay with the group, I'd say the character being so annoying should cut it out on the basis that it's making the group dysfunctional. I'd also like to hear what you have to say about that!

[GPS]

While I can see your problems with the player, it sounds like you have some ridgid views of the "right" way to play d&d. You seem to think that child progidies shouldn't exist, and that 15 year olds can't be supernaturally strong (almost as if the world is magical or something). You also seem to be under the impression that the DM can't make himself a custom setting. This is a roleplaying fantasy game, your way isn't the only way just because you have your own traditional conventions set in stone. Your way of playing isn't "wrong", but that doesn't mean their way isn't "right".

Aside from that, a character using their resources to prevent you from killing them is doing so out of self defense. Sometimes, a wizard just has to run when faced with a fighter. Does it make them a coward? Possibly, definitely in your eyes, but they're really just being practical if you look at it from their perspective.

Final note, how does a wizard have 72 HP while a fighter has 40? I don't care if the brother dude rolled an 18 in con, something is up. Even without that 72 HP, the fact that he rolled an 18 in all stats is incredibly suspicious. Did you see him roll these?

[KleineVampir]

While I can see your problems with the player, it sounds like you have some ridgid views of the "right" way to play d&d. You seem to think that child progidies shouldn't exist, and that 15 year olds can't be supernaturally strong (almost as if the world is magical or something). You also seem to be under the impression that the DM can't make himself a custom setting. This is a roleplaying fantasy game, your way isn't the only way just because you have your own traditional conventions set in stone. You're way of playing isn't "wrong", but that doesn't mean their way isn't "right".Yeah...but like I said, even if the airship did exist I don't think we could have actually got it airborn, much less fly it successfully into the bay of a huge technomagical airship. At that point I just can't believe it anymore. Though I still think it's bad practice to use modern concepts in a fantasy game.

[KleineVampir]

Aside from that, a character using their resources to prevent you from killing them is doing so out of self defense. Sometimes, a wizard just has to run when faced with a fighter. Does it make them a coward? Possibly, definitely in your eyes, but they're really just being practical if you look at it from their perspective.

Final note, how does a wizard have 72 HP while a fighter has 40? I don't care if the brother dude rolled an 18 in con, something is up. Even without that 72 HP, the fact that he rolled an 18 in all stats is incredibly suspicious.I didn't say I don't understand why she hid, but I am saying it's really really annoying.

And yeah D&D can be really dumb if you exploit everything. To be fair, my guy has 0 Con and his character has +4. So he starts with 14 and gains 10 five times to level 6, so at that point he's got 64 HP. Then don't you know he took the "Tough" feat so it added some more to get him up to 72. So yeah a little gnome wizard can have more HP than my ranger. I just think it's dumb because if you're going to be so little, you wouldn't likely be incredibly tough. So he designed the character to be good which I get, but he didn't make it a dwarf wizard or anything like that, it had to be a little gnome.

And he didn't roll literally all 18's. I think he did roll 3 though, so half his stats are at least +4. Then his other rolls were decent too so it's just an insanely highly statted character. Not necessarily wrong, just really really annoying once again.

[PeteNutButter]

Yeah...but like I said, even if the airship did exist I don't think we could have actually got it airborn, much less fly it successfully into the bay of a huge technomagical airship. At that point I just can't believe it anymore. Though I still think it's bad practice to use modern concepts in a fantasy game.

Have you never heard of Eberron? There is no "right" way to play D&D, and DMs are free to make settings however they like. If you don't like it, complain to your DM or leave the group.

As far as player conflicts go, a conflict between players should never affect in game characters and a conflict between characters should never affect players. I.E. you should never attack the gnome because you are annoyed with the player, only if your character is sufficiently motivated to attack based on the actions of the other character.

Generally PVP is frowned upon by most tables, and it seems like you were provoked into being the aggressor, so fault is on both sides here. Consider maybe beating him at his own game, playing tricks on him.

It sounds like there is a good chance there is cheating going on though, with him as a wizard having almost double your hit points and "rolling" such great stats. What were your rolling methods? 4d6 drop lowest doesn't have even a remotely good chance at generating more than 1 18... 3 is just outlandish and well in the realm of cheaty-ville.

If you are so set on fighting him (highly discouraged), consider taking your next level in sorcerer and cast shield whenever he tries to magic missile you. Best if you fight before he knows you can, so he wastes his first turn shooting that missile. If he does the rope trick thing again, just ready an attack for whenever he gets out.

Going back to the DM, seems like any adventure that forced all but 1 player to do nothing, is a total **** adventure. Maybe try and switch DMs? I'd never design an adventure where all my players don't contribute.

[BurgerBeast]

Just quit the group.

I would be just as annoyed as you are, but that's why I would quit playing with them. Don't let the fact that someone else annoys you become an excuse for behaving like this.

Walk away.

You say that these people are your friends, but here you are, on an online forum, bashing them more-or-less publicly. You're not making them look bad.

Leave them play how they like. If you don't like it, don't partake. If you want to host your own game, go for it. If you want to invite them, go ahead. If you don't, don't.

[Hrugner]

I have suspiciously good luck with rolling characters, enough that I feel the need to roll publicly for character creation, but I've never had 3 18s in 24 years of playing. This player does sound like they're cheating, and they do sound obnoxious, but I'd be careful not to encourage their behavior by giving strong responses to their shenanigans.

[KleineVampir]

Have you never heard of Eberron? There is no "right" way to play D&D, and DMs are free to make settings however they like. If you don't like it, complain to your DM or leave the group.

As far as player conflicts go, a conflict between players should never affect in game characters and a conflict between characters should never affect players. I.E. you should never attack the gnome because you are annoyed with the player, only if your character is sufficiently motivated to attack based on the actions of the other character.

Generally PVP is frowned upon by most tables, and it seems like you were provoked into being the aggressor, so fault is on both sides here. Consider maybe beating him at his own game, playing tricks on him.

It sounds like there is a good chance there is cheating going on though, with him as a wizard having almost double your hit points and "rolling" such great stats. What were your rolling methods? 4d6 drop lowest doesn't have even a remotely good chance at generating more than 1 18... 3 is just outlandish and well in the realm of cheaty-ville.

If you are so set on fighting him (highly discouraged), consider taking your next level in sorcerer and cast shield whenever he tries to magic missile you. Best if you fight before he knows you can, so he wastes his first turn shooting that missile. If he does the rope trick thing again, just ready an attack for whenever he gets out.

Going back to the DM, seems like any adventure that forced all but 1 player to do nothing, is a total **** adventure. Maybe try and switch DMs? I'd never design an adventure where all my players don't contribute.Shield just raises AC by 5 though, doesn't it? It wouldn't work in that case.

I honestly don't think I can beat him, so I don't think I'll actually fight him again. I made my feelings known and honestly he hasn't messed with me since I stabbed him. I still highly doubt it's over though.

And I don't think he cheated. Now, he rolled the stats a really long time ago and I think I was there to see those stats being rolled...though honestly I don't really remember that. At this point I doubt the DM would make him re-roll his character. And yeah he did it the "4d6 drop the lowest" way. I like that way of generating stats because I think it's a lot more interesting than copying them from a chart...but then THAT'S what he rolls. Like I'm saying, not necessarily wrong, just insanely annoying.

And yeah I could camp him out, but I don't think my character would do that. And trust me my character had reason to be mad along with me, the player. The first thing he ever did involving me was he "soiled" my pants with prestidigitation. Originally they told me that it felt like I crapped myself, but then I called BS on that one and lo and behold soiled just means he made it dirty. He did this totally unprovoked. I literally just finished making this character and he rode up on his horse to see what was going on with this downed airship, and that's what happened. Also, he hasn't cleaned them off so he just made my pants dirty for no reason and now they are just still dirty.

Also I forgot to mention that after I made my character, with the revised rules, which are doable but complicated, I didn't think of giving my wolf a name. So his character constantly insists that his name is Graywind Poop-smear the third. He knows dang well that I hate crap like this and he's doing it anyways. First of all you don't presume to name somebody's wolf. Second of all calling them that is basically a totally disrespectful insult. So that was also a large factor in me attacking her. Also he tricked my wolf to embarrass us both even further. This is right off the bat, when our characters first met. So there is no understood funny shennanigans or anything like that.

[KleineVampir]

Just quit the group.

I would be just as annoyed as you are, but that's why I would quit playing with them. Don't let the fact that someone else annoys you become an excuse for behaving like this.

Walk away.

You say that these people are your friends, but here you are, on an online forum, bashing them more-or-less publicly. You're not making them look bad.

Leave them play how they like. If you don't like it, don't partake. If you want to host your own game, go for it. If you want to invite them, go ahead. If you don't, don't.Yeah but you don't know our lives and everything. They should know darn well that I am trapped inside almost all the time and that D&D is one of the very few things I enjoy going and doing. So it's more messed up than you think. Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you but this is just bad.

And you're saying I can't be mad at them? You guys have no clue who they are, so it's not like public shaming. I know not everybody is going to agree with me on this one, but I think I can say what I want without being put on the moral low ground.

[Yuki Akuma]

Yeah but you don't know our lives and everything. They should know darn well that I am trapped inside almost all the time and that D&D is one of the very few things I enjoy going and doing. So it's more messed up than you think. Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you but this is just bad.

And you're saying I can't be mad at them? You guys have no clue who they are, so it's not like public shaming. I know not everybody is going to agree with me on this one, but I think I can say what I want without being put on the moral low ground.

Man, have you seen this forum? The person who shares his story always ends up being called out on how he went wrong.

[KleineVampir]

I have suspiciously good luck with rolling characters, enough that I feel the need to roll publicly for character creation, but I've never had 3 18s in 24 years of playing. This player does sound like they're cheating, and they do sound obnoxious, but I'd be careful not to encourage their behavior by giving strong responses to their shenanigans.Yeah I could try to convince the DM to make him reroll because his stats are absolutely ludicrous. I know this guy and I believe he's honest but I could be wrong.

And yeah that was my next strategy. I'm just going to say that my character has gotten over it and will endure the dumb tricks and hope they go away.

[jitzul]

On one of your points. I know it may be hard for you to believe but not every d&d setting is generic medieval western European tolkien ripoff fantasy land. Heck not sure but have you heard about eberron or dark sun? That's about as far away from generic medieval western European tolkien ripoff fantasy land as wotc has made. But for real just quit and fand like minded players.

[KleineVampir]

Man, have you seen this forum? The person who shares his story always ends up being called out on how he went wrong.Actually no I haven't seen this forum. Well, you can blame me if it makes you feel better, but I just wanted other people's opinion on the situation as people who know D&D, and just let me vent my frustrations.

[KleineVampir]

On one of your points. I know it may be hard for you to believe but not every d&d setting is generic medieval western European tolkien ripoff fantasy land. Heck not sure but have you heard about eberron or dark sun? That's about as far away from generic medieval western European tolkien ripoff fantasy land as wotc has made. But for real just quit and fand like minded players.Ok it's interesting that people would say that. I thought you guys would probably be lotr rip-off purists, lol. Yeah I have a strong preference for a dark fantasy setting. That's me. And a lot of the time the DM does the dark stuff, which I really like. Otherwise D&D is as you said, just generic lotr rip-off with goblins and other generic crap. That's why it has to be dark for me.

I think I will just endure this crap because I have little other choice and I think they will leave me alone in the end. I guess they just can't accept a noble showing up with any grace. They have to make a complete fool out of him to make themselves feel better. Very annoying but like I said I think it will pass and I will get my dark fantasy setting stuff later on in the campaign.

[Keltest]

Actually no I haven't seen this forum. Well, you can blame me if it makes you feel better, but I just wanted other people's opinion on the situation as people who know D&D, and just let me vent my frustrations.

A common saying on this forum is "no gaming is better than bad gaming", which is a fancy way of saying "if you aren't having fun, stop doing it." If the value you get out of social interaction and the fun from the game isn't enough to justify the frustration, youre better off not participating at all.

[StoicLeaf]

ok, 72hp for a level 6 wizard isn't kosher.
a wizard with 18 con and tough has the following hp:

level 1 max: 6
5 levels of half+1: 20
6 levels of con mod: 24
tough hp: 12
total: 62

Hp missing = 10, which oddly enough is what you'd get with max rolled hp dice. For every level.

Listening to you rant, I can see errors on both sides, but ultimately I don't think this group is a good fit for you.
And if you really wanted to kill the gnome ... slit her throat while she sleeps.
No amount of HP or AC are going to save you from rapid exsanguination.

[KleineVampir]

ok, 72hp for a level 6 wizard isn't kosher.
a wizard with 18 con and tough has the following hp:

level 1 max: 6
5 levels of half+1: 20
6 levels of con mod: 24
tough hp: 12
total: 62

Hp missing = 10, which oddly enough is what you'd get with max rolled hp dice. For every level.

Listening to you rant, I can see errors on both sides, but ultimately I don't think this group is a good fit for you.
And if you really wanted to kill the gnome ... slit her throat while she sleeps.
No amount of HP or AC are going to save you from rapid exsanguination.Oh really?? Because I told the player to his face that my character could do that, and he said: "Good luck. I have 72 HP man..." So do tell how to present this argument because he and the DM are brothers who always tilt things in their favor. I think I've read stuff like that in 3rd edition where you can just straight up kill people in one hit if you just slam your rapier through their eye or something!

[KleineVampir]

A common saying on this forum is "no gaming is better than bad gaming", which is a fancy way of saying "if you aren't having fun, stop doing it." If the value you get out of social interaction and the fun from the game isn't enough to justify the frustration, youre better off not participating at all.Yeah... you guys could be right. My life really has a lot of weird circumstances so it's not as easy to just quit and join another group as it probably would be for you guys. But that's my problem and I'm not asking you guys to help me with that. But you still might be right. If it's more frustration than fun, why do it? I'll definitely be thinking about that for sure.

[Clone]

After reading through all of this, it just looks like you need to sit down with the player out of character and tell them that they are annoying you to the level it is.
Will that solve the problem? Maybe, maybe not. While I understand that you mightn't have as much freedom to choose who you game with as you like, the only way you can get the player to respect how you are feeling is to talk it out.

Much of what you have said the Gnome is doing is just simple, harmless trickery. Dirtying pants, changing nose colors, and creating illusory steaks appear are all harmless and the player probably doesn't see anything wrong with it. Unless they are actually endangering anyone, its simple one-sided fun even if it is annoying.

It doesn't mean you're unjustified by being irritated by the character, that's perfectly fine and understandable, but if its so bad it is ruining your experience?
Talk to them and get your point across, but respect them and their character. They're there to have fun just as you are and created a character which they seem to enjoy playing. Its fine to have character conflict, its not fine to let that create a schism between yourself and that player. Especially not character violence.

In regards to how you view the HP of the wizard or if they make sense, that's a mechanics issue. A 7 foot tall Goliath with a 20 STR score can be less resilient than a Halfling wizard depending on player choices and rolls, no matter how silly that sounds. I know many who would find that hilarious even. It not fitting how you seemingly view things is nothing to do with the player unfortunately, so I can't offer advice there.

In regards to the setting? Well that is pure DM choice. Like people said, Eberron is a classic example of a steampunk D&D setting with technology infused with magic. If that isn't something you're interested in, talk to the DM about it. Ask them to explain situations or ideas in such as way which is more believable to you, so they don't need to change any ideas they have but you get your immersion. With 6 hours and no combat, either that means it was bad DMing for not knowing what their players want or it was just a combat-light session. I've had sessions where we don't roll any dice whatsoever and they can be the most fun at times.

TLDR:
Talk to them in a fair and honest manner or else try find a more like-minded group online if there aren't any other close groups. You can't make them look at the way you view things and find things fun, but there is ALWAYS a middle-ground. It is just a matter if both parties are willing to work towards that middle-ground.

Edited, said CON when meant to say STR

[GPS]

Shield just raises AC by 5 though, doesn't it? It wouldn't work in that case.

Shield raises AC by 2. Is this sarcasm, or is this Shield of faith and I'm misinterpretinf.?

[Keltest]

Oh really?? Because I told the player to his face that my character could do that, and he said: "Good luck. I have 72 HP man..." So do tell how to present this argument because he and the DM are brothers who always tilt things in their favor. I think I've read stuff like that in 3rd edition where you can just straight up kill people in one hit if you just slam your rapier through their eye or something!

In 3.5, the term is coup-de-grace. Its an automatic crit with whatever weapon youre using, so it deals however much damage that is for your weapon. On top of that, theres a fortitude save with a DC of 10 plus the damage you deal, to prevent outright death irrespective of the damage dealt. If youre a rogue, you can also add the sneak attack damage bonus to the damage and DC. A wizard is unlikely to survive such an attack from any martial of comparable level without some serious cheese.

you put this in the 5e forum though, so I'm assuming that's the edition youre using.

[KleineVampir]

After reading through all of this, it just looks like you need to sit down with the player out of character and tell them that they are annoying you to the level it is.
Will that solve the problem? Maybe, maybe not. While I understand that you mightn't have as much freedom to choose who you game with as you like, the only way you can get the player to respect how you are feeling is to talk it out.

Much of what you have said the Gnome is doing is just simple, harmless trickery. Dirtying pants, changing nose colors, and creating illusory steaks appear are all harmless and the player probably doesn't see anything wrong with it. Unless they are actually endangering anyone, its simple one-sided fun even if it is annoying.

It doesn't mean you're unjustified by being irritated by the character, that's perfectly fine and understandable, but if its so bad it is ruining your experience?
Talk to them and get your point across, but respect them and their character. They're there to have fun just as you are and created a character which they seem to enjoy playing. Its fine to have character conflict, its not fine to let that create a schism between yourself and that player. Especially not character violence.

In regards to how you view the HP of the wizard or if they make sense, that's a mechanics issue. A 7 foot tall Goliath with a 20 CON score can be less resilient than a Halfling wizard depending on player choices and rolls, no matter how silly that sounds. I know many who would find that hilarious even. It not fitting how you seemingly view things is nothing to do with the player unfortunately, so I can't offer advice there.

In regards to the setting? Well that is pure DM choice. Like people said, Eberron is a classic example of a steampunk D&D setting with technology infused with magic. If that isn't something you're interested in, talk to the DM about it. Ask them to explain situations or ideas in such as way which is more believable to you, so they don't need to change any ideas they have but you get your immersion. With 6 hours and no combat, either that means it was bad DMing for not knowing what their players want or it was just a combat-light session. I've had sessions where we don't roll any dice whatsoever and they can be the most fun at times.

TLDR:
Talk to them in a fair and honest manner or else try find a more like-minded group online if there aren't any other close groups. You can't make them look at the way you view things and find things fun, but there is ALWAYS a middle-ground. It is just a matter if both parties are willing to work towards that middle-ground.Ok, wise words! Guys, typically I am just a totally relaxed D&D player but only until now have I become irate.

Also I don't have a ton of principles that I'm constantly guarding, but I believe everybody should be treated with respect and allowed to have their dignity intact. Doing things just to humiliate people and 'take them down a notch' is just not acceptable in my book; and my friends should know this by now. I'm sure my friend did not actually intend to annoy me this much, but even OOC we disagree on who is in the wrong. I don't get why this would be my fault because I was definitely not the one to initiate these tricks...but I guess I did initiate the violence! But seriously, my guy did nothing wrong and he just started utterly disrespecting me and my wolf. I don't think my character would take that! He's a noble and I don't think he would take that affront to his dignity.

[KleineVampir]

In 3.5, the term is coup-de-grace. Its an automatic crit with whatever weapon youre using, so it deals however much damage that is for your weapon. On top of that, theres a fortitude save with a DC of 10 plus the damage you deal, to prevent outright death irrespective of the damage dealt. If youre a rogue, you can also add the sneak attack damage bonus to the damage and DC. A wizard is unlikely to survive such an attack from any martial of comparable level without some serious cheese.

you put this in the 5e forum though, so I'm assuming that's the edition youre using.Yeah it's 5e. So I guess that means there's no 'official' argument for a coup de grace? I like this edition but honestly it's starting to leave much to be desired! No more coup de grace? So I could crit just like I did before, but it wouldn't be nearly enough to kill her. Yeah, I'm the kind of guy who likes things to be as realistic and believable as possible, even though it is a fantasy setting. If I shove my rapier through her throat while she's asleep, she should be a goner!

[KleineVampir]

Shield raises AC by 2. Is this sarcasm, or is this Shield of faith and I'm misinterpretinf.?Are we both talking about "Shield" from 5e? 1st level abjuration.. +5 AC and totally blocks magic missile, so I get what you're saying in that case. Funny that they would target that spell particularly to be able to block, but I guess it makes sense.

[Knaight]

Yeah... you guys could be right. My life really has a lot of weird circumstances so it's not as easy to just quit and join another group as it probably would be for you guys. But that's my problem and I'm not asking you guys to help me with that. But you still might be right. If it's more frustration than fun, why do it? I'll definitely be thinking about that for sure.

The statement is explicitly that if a group is bad enough (or a bad enough fit) you should quit, even when there is no fallback group. "You should just play that other game with an opening that's much better" doesn't tend to show up as advice much, mostly because it's a pretty obvious course of action.

[Yuki Akuma]

Are we both talking about "Shield" from 5e? 1st level abjuration.. +5 AC and totally blocks magic missile, so I get what you're saying in that case. Funny that they would target that spell particularly to be able to block, but I guess it makes sense.

Shield blocks Magic Missile because Shield has blocked Magic Missile in every edition where both of those spells existed.

[GPS]

Are we both talking about "Shield" from 5e? 1st level abjuration.. +5 AC and totally blocks magic missile, so I get what you're saying in that case. Funny that they would target that spell particularly to be able to block, but I guess it makes sense.
Oh, my bad. I thought you were talking about the equipment, not the spell

[StoicLeaf]

Yeah it's 5e. So I guess that means there's no 'official' argument for a coup de grace? I like this edition but honestly it's starting to leave much to be desired! No more coup de grace? So I could crit just like I did before, but it wouldn't be nearly enough to kill her. Yeah, I'm the kind of guy who likes things to be as realistic and believable as possible, even though it is a fantasy setting. If I shove my rapier through her throat while she's asleep, she should be a goner!

5e is a different beast.
From my DMing perspective, combat is there for people that are armed and looking for or prepared for trouble.

Someone sleeping, with no armor, and no opportunity to defend themselves doesn't even get to roll initiative.
You're dead, game over.

His argument of "I have 72 hp, dur hur good luck" is moot. HP is an abstraction of how much punishment you can take before falling over.
A sleeping person doesn't require this abstraction.

If the DM is going to tilt stuff in favour of his brother then just leave.
It sounds like a total bummer.

[KleineVampir]

5e is a different beast.
From my DMing perspective, combat is there for people that are armed and looking for or prepared for trouble.

Someone sleeping, with no armor, and no opportunity to defend themselves doesn't even get to roll initiative.
You're dead, game over.

His argument of "I have 72 hp, dur hur good luck" is moot. HP is an abstraction of how much punishment you can take before falling over.
A sleeping person doesn't require this abstraction.

If the DM is going to tilt stuff in favour of his brother then just leave.
It sounds like a total bummer.Ha, well said man.

It is, but it can also be the best campaign. I doubt anyone in my area would have a taste for dark stuff like this DM. It's just that this adventure is totally over the top and unbelievable to me...so this one isn't for me I guess. So what I'm saying is that he'll take me into the 'dark fantasy' setting that I like so much, at some point in the future.

Overall, it's just frustrating because they have a pattern of doing BS and not listening to me. I'm the one with the most experience and knowledge in the group. I helped the DM to become a good DM because I thought he would ultimately be better than me at doing it. But yeah they have their whole brother thing going on and they like to have things their way all the time. Usually the DM is pretty reasonable and not anti-fun or anything like that, so it's usually a good session. I'll have to tell you guys what happens next week! I'm hoping we'll at least be out of the airship and done with that by the end of it.

[Sigreid]

Actually, it sounds like he's playing a gnome the way they are described in the lore. Gnomes love practical jokes at the expense of others.

Other than that, even with a 18 con and toughness he would have to roll max hitpoints every level for 6 levels to have 72 hit points and that does sound a bit suspicious. Never even once in those 5 rolls rolled a 5 or lower?

[Arial Black]

In 5E a wizard PC's hit points, assuming the Tough feat and 18 Con, start out at 12 and then increase each level by one of two methods:-

* +10/level
* 1d6+6/level

The only way this wizard could have 72 hp at 6th is if he rolled 6 on the d6 all 5 times.

Now, if the house rules are that PC's get max hp/level, then he has 72 hp and you have 70.

But you have 40. You rolled, so he must have rolled and rolled 5 sixes on 5d6.

The chance of rolling the same number on a fair d6 five times is one in 7776, and the chance that the actual number that was repeated was a 6 (instead of 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5) is 1 in 6, so his chances of getting 5 sixes (as opposed to 5 one's or 5 twos etc.) is one in 46656.

I would be suspicious of that.

BTW, if I was in the same room when someone fairly rolled three 18s for character creation, this is an event that I would remember.

[Jerrykhor]

Honestly, I can't believe you attacked the gnome for a simple, harmless prank. I've heard of far, far worse players, and this gnome is quite mild compared to them. Also, if I were the gnome and you attack me, I'd have done far worse. Like Hold Person + Scorching Ray straight up murder you. Attacking another player is just asking for PVP.

Some people play annoying characters, and we feel annoyed by them. But thats fine; we meet plenty of annoying people IRL too, and sometimes we have to work with them.

[StoicLeaf]

In 5E a wizard PC's hit points, assuming the Tough feat and 18 Con, start out at 12 and then increase each level by one of two methods:-

* +10/level
* 1d6+6/level

The only way this wizard could have 72 hp at 6th is if he rolled 6 on the d6 all 5 times.

Now, if the house rules are that PC's get max hp/level, then he has 72 hp and you have 70.

But you have 40. You rolled, so he must have rolled and rolled 5 sixes on 5d6.

The chance of rolling the same number on a fair d6 five times is one in 7776, and the chance that the actual number that was repeated was a 6 (instead of 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5) is 1 in 6, so his chances of getting 5 sixes (as opposed to 5 one's or 5 twos etc.) is one in 46656.

I would be suspicious of that.

BTW, if I was in the same room when someone fairly rolled three 18s for character creation, this is an event that I would remember.

...something's off with your math.
You don't need to x6.

There are a total of 7776 combinations. One of these is {6, 6, 6, 6, 6}. 1/7776 are the odds of it happening.

[Sariel Vailo]

I actually have a wizard that's almost similar. She's a built up pranking glass cannon. But I don't prank all the party. Just when someone pisses me off. I think I prank every so often otherwise I perform a lot. I grabbed the bladesinger archetype.

[Decstarr]

Some strategies:

1) Try to talk to the DM separately. I mean, they ARE brothers and seem to be sticking together, but if I know anything about siblings, then it's the fact that one hardly misses out on a chance to "prank" the other one. So talk to him about how you feel and why you feel this way and tell him that should the little wizard ignore your feelings, you might murder her in her sleep. He'll either allow it if you come up with a creative way of doing that or he won't. Also, bring up the stats issue with him, maybe he is unaware of his brother's apparent cheating? I tend to trust my players when it comes to things like rolling for HP etc. and hardly ever control it. If it was brought to my attention that someone cheated in this ridiculously obvious way, they'd probably meet an unfortunate and dreadful demise.

2) Stop playing with them

3) Let your character die and roll a new one that's specifically designed to murder the gnome wizard. (Petty, but probably fun!)

4) Let your character die and roll a new one that is as obnoxious to the wizard gnome as the wizard gnome was to you. Since you know them and you say you are friends, you should have a pretty decent idea how you can mess with this guy's ideas. Fight fire with fire and maybe he'll learn from it? (also petty but could be fun).

[BurgerBeast]

Yeah but you don't know our lives and everything.

That’s why I left your lives out of my opinion.


They should know darn well that I am trapped inside almost all the time and that D&D is one of the very few things I enjoy going and doing.

And yet they are playing it in a way that annoys you. You have a problem, here.


So it's more messed up than you think. Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you but this is just bad.

If the circumstances are “messed up,” like really “messed up,” then that should still not lead you to behave like this. That’s the point of integrity. If you stop having it when things get messed up, then you don’t really have it at all.


And you're saying I can't be mad at them?

That’s not what I’m saying at all. You have every right to feel how you feel. You do not have the right to behave however you feel.


You guys have no clue who they are, so it's not like public shaming.

Who said it’s about them? This is about you. Using an online forum to anonymously bash people whom you consider to be your friends is bad for you.


I know not everybody is going to agree with me on this one, but I think I can say what I want without being put on the moral low ground.

That depends on the moral character of what you say. So, no, it is not true at all. You have the right to an opinion. You have the right to be respected as a person. You do not have the right to have your opinion respected. That you must earn.


And yeah that was my next strategy. I'm just going to say that my character has gotten over it and will endure the dumb tricks and hope they go away.

I would not recommend this. It’s not your character that has a problem, here. It’s you – the player. If you were capable of getting over it and enduring the dumb tricks, then this would never have happened.

I would not tolerate the behaviour of the other player if I were you. But I would also respect the fact that this player has just as much right to play as I do. If I were the DM I would tell this other player that he needs to stop or I will boot him from the group. But if I was in your shoes, with a DM who allows it, I would simply leave.

----

You’re obviously unhappy, or you never would have posted this. You need to decide if you want to continue playing the game as it is. If you do, continue playing and don’t complain. If you don’t, don’t.

If you are not going to leave, but you are going to continue to complain about things, or “fight back” against the behaviours of other players, then all you’re really doing is passive aggressively trying to exert control.

[Frauxst]

Dude it's a game and he's just trying to have fun, it sounds like you're wound up way too tight. Unless their actions are actively harming the group or counterproductive to the campaign, it's a pretty big **** move to try and kill their character. Like everyone has said, talk with them and figure something out.

[Dr.Samurai]

So... I don't mind the airship stuff (Eberron is my favorite setting). But I definitely agree with the sentiment toward silly and obnoxious characters spoiling the game.

Were I there, I'd have a talk with the DM/group and share my grievances and see where it goes. I think, in just about every circumstance, handling these situations out of game is strictly better than handling them in game.

That said, there may be a way for you to get her in game, if you so desire. Do you guys ever have difficult encounters that tap out your resources?

[DeathEatsCurry]

or understand that D&D is meant to be played a certain way.

Players like this irk me. People who assume DnD is meant to be played X way, and any other way is WROOONG. Bull****, DnD is meant to be played the way you want to play it. Just because you've been in more games than they have doesn't give you the right to parade YOUR vision on how to play the game. Some people enjoy a little powergaming, and when it's harmless that's fine.

[Dudu]

Ok, so I have some points to raise.

First, D&D isn't necessarily medieval. Greyhawk setting is, Faerum is... somewhat. But you have Eberron, Planescape, Darksun and, my favorite of all, your own custom setting. So yeah, you can have a robot riding on a velociraptor, it's ok.

Second, don't do PvP. And yes, I consider "practical jokes" as some sort of pvp. Want to play a jokester gnome? Either play pranks on NPCs or on other players who are (1) ok with it, (2) behaving like jerks. If the players are ok with some pvp, and said pvp won't slow down the game, than I'm ok as well.

Third, I advise against rolling stats. It's just a bad idea. In fact, in 5ed you're not even supposed to boast a 20 score on any stat at lvl 6, let alone in lvl 1. I think only a fighter would reach score 20 in a stat at lvl 6, and not even them could have such score from the get go.

Fourth, don't solve your OOC problems IC. The way the player is playing is annoying the hell out of you. Talk with the player and the DM, don't go pvp. Note how psychotic your ranger looks for trying to kill someone who merely played with your wolf or made you look like you soiled your pants. It's heavily exaggerated.

And fifth, it was a 6 hour long session and you attacked once? What the hell were you even doing the whole session? I'm really starting to believe the actual culprit for your sh1t session was your DM.

[Pr6i6e6st]

1) maybe this has been pointed out, but stuff like the airships are far from impossible. Mind flayers, as per the volo's guide to monsters, have their own form of alien inter-dimensional vessel, as well as the githyankee. Frogemoths are rumoured to have arrived in metal cylinders from the sky. And in the list of vehicles, airships, much like zeppelins, exist as possibilities.

I like to refer to thinks like full metal alchemist, where a lot of practices we have in our world, are replaced with magic means, like transmutation. Human ingenuity is powerful. Imagine the other sentient beings.

2) my worst time was probably my last couple of sessions. A player had joined our campaign like 2 sessions maybe after we started. My character gets grabbed by a dragon in a discussion, and the new player stumbles in to see this, and attacks the dragon. Dragon kills him in one go. That's about all this player ever got to do, so we set out to try and get him brought back from the dead.

OOC, it was upsetting. He JUST got to play and is dead because he didn't know what was going on and tried to help my character. IC, my character felt incredibly guilty. He blamed himself (kind of part of his personality to have an overly bleeding heart). My character was the one to convince the others to help. Basically "I can't go with you. I'll just get you all killed." So they agreed to seek out someone who could help. Well all but one.

I was an arcane trickster rogue. This guy? Thief rogue. This guy would steal everything if he could. He somehow stole my bedroll while I was dying, would always try to "hide" in a crowded tavern (we were all humans so no halfling hiding) or a crowd in the street and just attemp to steal things without any kind of reconnaissance or observing. But the worst thing was that his character "didn't care". He couldn't be bothered to come up with a reason to make his character care about helping another member of the party. New or not. He didn't see it as his problem. And almost convinced the rest of the players (not even their characters, just their players) that it wasn't worth the effort.

Now, I get if you want to play a moody, brooding, selfish type. But if your character is THAT bad, why is he in the party to begin with? Why play with us at all if all you're going to do is add to the **** we have to deal with as players?

[Arial Black]

...something's off with your math.
You don't need to x6.

There are a total of 7776 combinations. One of these is {6, 6, 6, 6, 6}. 1/7776 are the odds of it happening.

Yeah, you're right, I got carried away.

My point is still valid though: he is fudging those rolls, with or without DM knowledge. There is a 1 in 7776 chance that I'm wrong. Enough that any court in the land would convict.

The OP should say, "Oh! I didn't realise we were doing max hit points! My PC now has 70!"

[Arial Black]

Oh, and yeah, using your abilities to mess with other PCs is PVP!

You are using your thieving/spellcasting abilities against me? Okay, then I'll use my weapon-using abilities against you!

[Chunkosaurus]

I'm glad other people pointed out the HP situation because I was like is that even rules wise possible and the did the math and saw that this was the theoretical maximum for this class.

[ZorroGames]

Snip

BTW, if I was in the same room when someone fairly rolled three 18s for character creation, this is an event that I would remember.

Two friends from back in the OD&D days creating character:

Roll 3D6 in order of ST, IN, WI, DE, CO, CH.

Guy1, (no names,) rolls a fighter with an 18 Strength and 18 constitution - much jealousy and jaws hitting the floor results. Average or slightly less other stats.

Guy2 using different dice, rolls 18 ST, 18 DE, and 18 CO, no below average stats for other 3.

Pandemonium ensued.

Strangely enough, when offered 5 more sets of rolls (our usual method where you roll 6 characters and pick 1) they passed. No ****, I would have too. Most of my characters had one stat between 13 and 16 inclusive and several never broke 13 on a single stat.

Not jealous but certainly envy for my friends rolls.

Statistics says it may be unlikely but certainly possible.

[ZorroGames]

Trying to stay of your vent but, "Accept the tone or Leave," is my thought.

[oncnawan]

The only sane way to resolve the situation is to keep the wizard from casting spells (steal her arcane focus or material components pouch, silence her, etc.) to avoid feather fall or fly from spoiling your plans, then sabotage the airship so it crashes, killing everyone. Then, build a better character (more than 40 hp on a fighter) who can do more than whimper when the gnome hits the fan. If the player plays a rubbish character again, do what you gotta do, mang.

EDIT for PG rating.

[GPS]

That depends on the moral character of what you say. So, no, it is not true at all. You have the right to an opinion. You have the right to be respected as a person. You do not have the right to have your opinion respected. That you must earn.

I'm just going to steal this, it's absolutely perfect.

[Arial Black]

Two friends from back in the OD&D days creating character:

Roll 3D6 in order of ST, IN, WI, DE, CO, CH.

Guy1, (no names,) rolls a fighter with an 18 Strength and 18 constitution - much jealousy and jaws hitting the floor results. Average or slightly less other stats.

Guy2 using different dice, rolls 18 ST, 18 DE, and 18 CO, no below average stats for other 3.

Pandemonium ensued.

Strangely enough, when offered 5 more sets of rolls (our usual method where you roll 6 characters and pick 1) they passed. No ****, I would have too. Most of my characters had one stat between 13 and 16 inclusive and several never broke 13 on a single stat.

Not jealous but certainly envy for my friends rolls.

Statistics says it may be unlikely but certainly possible.

...and this is an event you remembered!

[Arkhios]

Not anyone specific, but rather a certain type (of which I've met too many in conventions):

I prefer a casual but effective approach with only a touch of powergame-ish methods when I play. I'm often quite aware that I could do better but I prefer cool over maximized power.

When the certain type of person comes and repeatedly tries to direct me (or others) to make decisions on my (or the others') turn in the most powerful way they think is possible, given the character in question, I tend to get very annoyed and might even lash out about it if they do that often enough.

In general I guess the type could be personified as a "Compulsively-Manipulative-Know-It-All" -type of person.

[EvilAnagram]

That’s why I left your lives out of my opinion.



And yet they are playing it in a way that annoys you. You have a problem, here.



If the circumstances are “messed up,” like really “messed up,” then that should still not lead you to behave like this. That’s the point of integrity. If you stop having it when things get messed up, then you don’t really have it at all.



That’s not what I’m saying at all. You have every right to feel how you feel. You do not have the right to behave however you feel.



Who said it’s about them? This is about you. Using an online forum to anonymously bash people whom you consider to be your friends is bad for you.



That depends on the moral character of what you say. So, no, it is not true at all. You have the right to an opinion. You have the right to be respected as a person. You do not have the right to have your opinion respected. That you must earn.



I would not recommend this. It’s not your character that has a problem, here. It’s you – the player. If you were capable of getting over it and enduring the dumb tricks, then this would never have happened.

I would not tolerate the behaviour of the other player if I were you. But I would also respect the fact that this player has just as much right to play as I do. If I were the DM I would tell this other player that he needs to stop or I will boot him from the group. But if I was in your shoes, with a DM who allows it, I would simply leave.

----

You’re obviously unhappy, or you never would have posted this. You need to decide if you want to continue playing the game as it is. If you do, continue playing and don’t complain. If you don’t, don’t.

If you are not going to leave, but you are going to continue to complain about things, or “fight back” against the behaviours of other players, then all you’re really doing is passive aggressively trying to exert control.

This is far more mature and well-reasoned than anything I had hoped to find in a complaints thread. Kudos to you, BurgerBeast.

[Corran]

I'm just going to steal this, it's absolutely perfect.
You have the right to remain silent...:smalltongue:

[ZorroGames]

I'm just going to steal this, it's absolutely perfect.


Roger that!

[ZorroGames]

...and this is an event you remembered!

I and about 20 plus players at our gaming meeting! And I might note such has not be seen on 3D6 in order rolling since for any of us that were present to my knowledge and I have been around the cave complex a few times.

I play a lot with an app RPG Roller when I am filling those 5 minute waiting gaps and it was several 100 characters before I had an 18 (on 3h4D6) without a sub-8 (one time - Four!???? Really, freaking 4?!?!?!) score. Fortunately the app saves rolls (including dropped) so I may talk to a DM I know about applicability of such die rolls to a campaign. You can clear the roll history but not edit/delete individual rolls. I separate sets of 6 rolls with a roll of ridiculous dice like 4D100 or such as "breaks" in the history.

[ZorroGames]

This is far more mature and well-reasoned than anything I had hoped to find in a complaints thread. Kudos to you, BurgerBeast.

Agreed. It was very well presented.

[Quoxis]

"I'm a noble with a pet wolf and also totally awesome, but this player playing a gnome as a gnome is wrong, he doesn't even let me kill his PC, how mean is that?"
I only read about half of what you wrote and i'm already convinced you're either the worst at describing or the actual problem of the group.

[Arial Black]

I think this gnome problem is like the Kender problem. It's not okay to tweak the noses of people, or steal their stuff. Just because you didn't kill or try to damage them doesn't make it okay.

In real life you may or may not play practical jokes. I don't because I know how much I hate them. Even seeing them happen to other people makes me very angry. I can't watch prank shows because all they do is make me angry and spend several hours dreaming of the kinds of retaliation I would apply to anyone who did such a thing to me.

Imagine going into a rough biker bar you've never been in before and quickly painting the face of the biker in the worst mood with pink paint, then laughing in his face. Yeah, he's not going to wait for an opportunity to prank you back, he's going to ****ing kill you.

If you poke the tiger for gits and shiggles and the tiger kills you, whose fault was it?

In game, this behaviour is PVP, and if someone 'attacks' me (stealing, pranking) using their abilities then I'll attack them back with my abilities and mine are all about my +2, flaming, hand-and-a-half suppository.

[Maxilian]

I think there are a couple of problems:

Some start with you OP, some start with your party member.

So a couple of things:

-Talk with your Group

-The World is whatever the DM wants (you know that even in a Tolken like universe, we have the Eternal Staircases, a conection of infinite worlds, so the BBEG can come from New York if the DM wants)

-The PCs are not a random person, they are the exception, those rare people that get to do amazing things (so its not rare to have special people in the group like "prodigy kids" -I mean... look at games like Overwatch or things like that, most of those "heroes" are basically "special snowflakes")

-Being annoying does not mean you gotta kill someone (Aren't you supposed to be a noble? at least your are not LG, but G in general can be debated)

-Tell your DM that next time, explain the world, tell you and the others how the world is, what is normal, what is not, when players know what to expect in the world, they will know how their characters will react to certain things.

[Maxilian]

Imagine going into a rough biker bar you've never been in before and quickly painting the face of the biker in the worst mood with pink paint, then laughing in his face. Yeah, he's not going to wait for an opportunity to prank you back, he's going to ****ing kill you.


I doubt he will kill you, but he will beat the **** out of you and then spit on your face and say "Guess who got pranked *tch*"

[Bahamut7]

I want to not be like most and point how rash you are acting but you are. Please understand, it's ok to come on here and vent. I will not wrong you for that. If the stats were rolled privately, I would be suspicious, but don't take away from the one time they may have these really good stats. Also, this is 5e, the stat differences help a lot but aren't that huge (4e would be a different story).

It sounds like you want to play in a low magic historical setting, this problem should have been addressed before the start. I noticed you complained about a gnome wizard of 15 being a wizard. If this started at level 1, this would not be a problem as they are learning magic as they grow. I always envisioned low level wizards that have forgone schools and sought real world teaching (or there is no wizard school).

The setting is defined by the DM, period. This can suck especially for you, but you agreed to the game. You can always voice your opinion that you feel the game has deviated way past what you were up for. Sometimes modern can slip into fantasy and be fun.

Take my current campaign. It is high magic fantasy (4e) and the aprty is temporarily transported to Arakis (planet from the Dune series) where there is no magic (Dark Sun setting) because beneath the surface lies a magic vault that drained the magic from the world to sustain its protection. it's a fun departure for now that is allowing us to mix what little magic we can still do with the guns that we were given for now.

Chaotic good can mean a prankster. Just talk in character with the wizard and tell them you don't appreciate the pranks and that if they continue you may act again or leave the party as it compromises the mission.

I get where you are coming from and can only advise you to adapt to the players and setting or leave the game. If you leave, inform the players that you are doing it because your expectations are different than what is and that it is harming your fun. No hard feelings, but if you aren't having fun why torture yourself. Don't be mad at the players (unless you have caught blatant cheating). If you stay, adapt to the campaign and talk with the DM about having the next game be closer to what you would like.

Good luck and try not to let it get you too fired up.

[beansworth]

Edit: I also wanted to make the argument that since playing all these tricks is so annoying that my character would leave the party, that his character was making the group dysfunctional which I believe to, at the very least, go against the spirit of the game and possibly against the actual rules. In my understanding, the characters are supposed to work together. When it gets to the point that one of the characters wouldn't even want to stay with the group, I'd say the character being so annoying should cut it out on the basis that it's making the group dysfunctional. I'd also like to hear what you have to say about that!

Not sure about your group and the way you play, but here's my thoughts.

In a game about gnomes and magic and paladins, who's to say a wizard can't be 15? It's fantasy.

The pranks sound like a bit of role-playing fun, and ultimately harmless. I can see a chaotic good character doing this kind of thing.

PCs fighting each other should only be done if both players are fine with it and having fun. I would not allow a PC to attack another like you did. I would congratulate this other player for finding a way to resolve it in character that did not end in PC death.

As for the player's OP stats, that's why I always prefer standard array or point buy. That's really unfortunate. Not sure if they cheated or not, or got the HP calculation wrong.

The Dm's world, with super airships and communications devices, seems within the realm of possibility even for Faerun. That being said, the DM needs to make sure there are things for everyone to do, not sideline people because only one PC can fly the ship or whatever.

The main issue though, seems to be you wanted a more realistic medieval setting, something darker and grittier. And the dm and the other player just envision the world differently.

[GlenSmash!]

If I were DM, you would have had complete control of whether or not your Wolf saw through the illusion. I don't allow player characters or there features to be governed by another players dice. By that same token I would not have let you attack another player at all. I don't DM for PvP. It's not to my tastes.

I also would have mentioned both of those things in my groups Session 0 before starting the campaign, along with my golden rule: If at anytime you are not having fun please bring it up to the table so we can discuss it like adults.

It's never to late to have that conversation with your table. Something like "I don't like playing a game where by ranger and his wolf are subject to another characters pranks" would have solve this problem almost before it began.

[Fey]

Frankly, your responses here seem quite immature.


go against the spirit of the game.

I don't know how you define the "spirit of the game," but I define it as having fun. And it sounds like this gnome girl is doing that. Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand the spirit of the game?



Frankly, both of these brothers are high-functioning autistic kids, and the idea of "The spirit of the game" is totally lost on them. They just see the rules but they don't read between the lines


This is ableist garbage, and as an autistic person myself, I'm offended at your crudity.


understand that D&D is meant to be played a certain way.


There is no "certain way" to play D&D. Every game and group is different. I've played in serious groups that focus on big plots and role playing, and lighthearted groups that just like to goof off and have fun. Just because this person is playing differently than you doesn't make them wrong.


It's a female gnome wizard, age 15. Ok that's already annoying and goes against the spirit of the game because a wizard should not be 15 years old. Or if it was, it would be a total prodigy which is also really annoying.


Clearly, you've never read Harry Potter.

I don't know what definition of "the spirit of the game" you're going by that doesn't allow someone to play a brilliant teenage girl who instead of sewing and cooking and getting ready to be married off to someone, instead studies and develops a magnificent talent she can use to take on the world, but if your game doesn't have room for that, then that's YOUR problem, not theirs.



And that's not all. It's also an extremely immature gnome who is constantly playing tricks on people. Like I made a ranger dude with a wolf, and the first thing she does is cast a minor illusion of a steak on the ground... Tell me that isn't annoying as hell. And yeah apparently my wolf didn't have the discipline to not go after it.

It's like everything she does is designed to take away as much dignity from people as possible, a notion I'm totally against and they should dang well know that about me.


You're really judgmental and immature if you think a minor prank like an illusionary steak is "taking away as much dignity from people as possible." It sounds like harmless fun to me. She didn't hurt you or your wolf. Lighten up and learn to have some fun once in awhile.


So ok, if I was that pissed off I could just kill her, right? What's a little gnome girl going to do against a dude with a shield and sword, a cloak of protection, and a wolf? Well! Last time on D&D, last night, I straight up attacked her after she made our dwarf paladin's nose glow neon pink. (Like anybody would know what neon pink is back in the medieval days...but that concept is also apparently lost on them.) I was going to give her a chance in that session, but that was literally the first thing she did. I stabbed her with my rapier for a meager 11 damage, on a crit, then she used fog cloud, and then rope trick and hid like a little b****. Yes, that happened.



Okay, so you think someone making an illusion of a pink nose justifies murder? And you think your friend is the one with the problem.

YOU clearly have a serious problem. In character, it makes NO SENSE for your character to resort to murder over a silly prank. And out of character, it makes NO SENSE for you to attack another player and ruin the game over harmless things like this. If you want the gnome to stop this sort of thing, talk to them and be mature, instead of attacking their character. You need to grow up.

It's just a GAME after all.


Then the session proceeds to put us in an 'airship' like a zeppelin kind of thing, which shouldn't exist in D&D but of course our DM is a fan of steampunk and thinks that everything in D&D would be more advanced because of "technomagic" and so forth.


You clearly don't mean owner what D&D is really about. It's about fun and imagination. And if you think airships shouldn't exist in D&D, go watch some Aquisitions Incorporated. It's run by Chris Perkins... you'll find his name inside the front cover of your 5th edition rule books. He added an airship to his D&D game. But I guess one of the lead game designers who HELPED WRITE THE BOOK doesn't know what D&D is all about.

Also, I could show you a 1st edition D&D campaign setting that has airships.


It's supposed to just be fantasy and medieval


Where, exactly, does it say that? I've many times included in my games things like time travel to a future setting with advanced technology, or alternate universes where things are more advanced. And there's even official D&D material in many editions listing the stats of advanced weapons, from guns to laser cannons! If YOU only want to play a medieval game, that's on you. Don't act like there's no place in D&D for more than that.

It sounds like you need an attitude adjustment. Stop whining about everything and either lighten up, or find a different group to play with who wants to play with your restricted, unimaginative version of D&D.

[PloxBox]

I had a fellow player who played the exact same character each time we started a new campaign or switched dm's; a fox kin GOOlock who, both ic and ooc, had no qualms against friendly fire. And, when confronted about it by another player, his response was "that's what you get for playing a low con character."

[Vorpalchicken]

About those TPS reports, I'm not sure if you got the memo...

[LordVonDerp]

So alright, about his character: It's a female gnome wizard, age 15.

I don't know how gnomes age relative to humans, but a 15 year old human wizard would be fine.





Ok that's already annoying and goes against the spirit of the game because a wizard should not be 15 years old. Or if it was, it would be a total prodigy which is also really annoying.




A low level wizard should absolutely start at a young age, anything else would be weird.




But that isn't all guys: It's also a character who rolled the most amazing stats ever. This character, at level 6 right now, has 17 AC and 72 hit points. Yes, a little 15 year old gnome girl. 20 int, 18 con, 18 dex...




That's the downside to rolled stats


And that's not all. It's also an extremely immature gnome who is constantly playing tricks on people.




So, typical dnd gnome behavior.



Like I made a ranger dude with a wolf, and the first thing she does is cast a minor illusion of a steak on the ground... Tell me that isn't annoying as hell.




Well Minor Illusion can't create smells, so the wolf wouldn't care


And yeah apparently my wolf didn't have the discipline to not go after it.



Not really a matter of discipline, as the wolf had no reason to think it was real.


It's like everything she does is designed to take away as much dignity from people as possible, a notion I'm totally against and they should dang well know that about me.






So ok, if I was that pissed off I could just kill her, right?




That's a terrible solution. Solve out of game issues out of game.



(Like anybody would know what neon pink is back in the medieval days...but that concept is also apparently lost on them.)




Given the garish colors that people usually wore in medieval times it seems possible they would know.



Then the session proceeds to put us in an 'airship' like a zeppelin kind of thing,




Nothing wrong here. Airships are a staple of fantasy.



which shouldn't exist in D&D but of course our DM is a fan of steampunk and thinks that everything in D&D would be more advanced because of "technomagic" and so forth.

Shrug.




I kinda get that, but it gets even more ridiculous. So we actually somehow get this thing to fly which I find very hard to believe. I mean it's a paladin and a monk, and they get this airship to fly? Ok...




A monk and a paladin? Now you just need a cleric and wizard and you can be the light warriors.



Then they even find something that's like a modern device that allows them to communicate with the "company" who controls the whole airship thing. And of course he talks while being interrupted by white noise, another concept completely and utterly alien to the D&D world.




Possibly, but it would still need to be explained to the players.



Of course only one player has vague control over the ship and every other player is just standing around with nothing to do other than to observe all this completely absurdity. That one attack I did? Yeah that was like all I did the entire 6 hour session that is an hour drive away. Yep.



That's really bad dm work.




Yeah you might think this is actually kind of cool, and yeah it kind of is, but this is D&D. It's supposed to just be fantasy and medieval, and this is, once again, annoyingly stretching the boundaries of the game.


Did the dm explain ahead of time that the campaign would be like this.

[SilverStud]

I agree with any and all solutions involving either talking it out or simply leaving. If you really want some D&D in your life, but have no other flesh-and-blood groups to play with, consider an online platform like FantasyGrounds or Roll20. There's a ton of good DMs on those platforms (like me! I'm a good DM lol) and they don't require an hour's drive.

I've had to leave a couple groups because of crap like this, and it sucked but was worth it. In all fairness though, none of the groups were my friends.

Also, you can call complete and utter bull crap on that guy's rolls. Ain't no way he rolled max HP every single level, and those 4d6d1 18's look highly suspect as well.

As for the campaign... well, that problem is best solved with the same methods as the stupid gnome: talk it out or leave. Tell the DM how frustrating it is that the events lead to your character not acting for the majority of a session. Tell him that you have trouble taking the story shenanigans seriously. Tell him what kind of game you want to play, and what kind of character you made. ALSO TELL HIM YOU CONTROL YOUR OWN FREAKING BEAST COMPANION. Seriously, wtf is with your beast companion not being under your control??? How's a wolf gonna be fooled by meat that doesn't smell like meat?

A bit of advice I didn't see someone else mention:
When you do all this "talking it out," do it privately. Don't do it in front of the group. Either of these two guys will feel like they gotta save face if you confront them in "public." Speak with them one-on-one. That way they can make changes to character and world without the other players necessarily knows that you "made them do it."

If they are the kind of ******** who drag other people in on it, then that's yet another reason to leave.

[KingFerret]

Frankly, your responses here seem quite immature.



I don't know how you define the "spirit of the game," but I define it as having fun. And it sounds like this gnome girl is doing that. Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand the spirit of the game?



This is ableist garbage, and as an autistic person myself, I'm offended at your crudity.



There is no "certain way" to play D&D. Every game and group is different. I've played in serious groups that focus on big plots and role playing, and lighthearted groups that just like to goof off and have fun. Just because this person is playing differently than you doesn't make them wrong.



Clearly, you've never read Harry Potter.

I don't know what definition of "the spirit of the game" you're going by that doesn't allow someone to play a brilliant teenage girl who instead of sewing and cooking and getting ready to be married off to someone, instead studies and develops a magnificent talent she can use to take on the world, but if your game doesn't have room for that, then that's YOUR problem, not theirs.



You're really judgmental and immature if you think a minor prank like an illusionary steak is "taking away as much dignity from people as possible." It sounds like harmless fun to me. She didn't hurt you or your wolf. Lighten up and learn to have some fun once in awhile.



Okay, so you think someone making an illusion of a pink nose justifies murder? And you think your friend is the one with the problem.

YOU clearly have a serious problem. In character, it makes NO SENSE for your character to resort to murder over a silly prank. And out of character, it makes NO SENSE for you to attack another player and ruin the game over harmless things like this. If you want the gnome to stop this sort of thing, talk to them and be mature, instead of attacking their character. You need to grow up.

It's just a GAME after all.



You clearly don't mean owner what D&D is really about. It's about fun and imagination. And if you think airships shouldn't exist in D&D, go watch some Aquisitions Incorporated. It's run by Chris Perkins... you'll find his name inside the front cover of your 5th edition rule books. He added an airship to his D&D game. But I guess one of the lead game designers who HELPED WRITE THE BOOK doesn't know what D&D is all about.

Also, I could show you a 1st edition D&D campaign setting that has airships.



Where, exactly, does it say that? I've many times included in my games things like time travel to a future setting with advanced technology, or alternate universes where things are more advanced. And there's even official D&D material in many editions listing the stats of advanced weapons, from guns to laser cannons! If YOU only want to play a medieval game, that's on you. Don't act like there's no place in D&D for more than that.

It sounds like you need an attitude adjustment. Stop whining about everything and either lighten up, or find a different group to play with who wants to play with your restricted, unimaginative version of D&D.

I find your attack pretty unwarranted to be honest. I don't think it's that unreasonable to have a base expectation that a DND campaign will be medieval fantasy. Not that DND can't be played in plenty of different ways, but I would certainly expect my DM to warn me if the campaign I was joining would be an atypical setting - especially, if, as it seems in this case, their previous campaigns have been more dark gritty fantasy.

I'll admit right off I don't know a huge amount about ableism or ableist issues, but it seems to me that his comment wasn't necessarily offensive, perhaps a little insensitive at worst. However, I may cede this point if you can instruct me otherwise, as I said I don't have much knowledge in this area.

I can also sympathise heavily at the frustration of having other characters humiliate or attempt to humiliate your own character - particularly if your character was meant to be a serious one. I would consider it very much in character for many medieval warriors to react violently, even lethally to somebody using magic to humiliate them. In the modern world it would certainly be seen as psychotic to kill somebody for a prank, but in medieval times mighty warriors would not suffer such insults lightly. In many cases they survive on their fearsome reputation. For this reason it would seem unfair to say the gnome is playing in character by humiliating you, but that you aren't allowed to react violently (in character) because that would be PVP. If a player is allowed to consistently act this way towards a violent perhaps moral grey character, but they aren't allowed to ever react in character then...well I think that's a bit silly tbh.

I would definitely agree that the gnome player is free to have fun their own way - up to the point where your fun impedes anothers fun. The gnome could quite easily play their pranks on NPC's - clearly the difference is they are enjoying seeing OP squirm out of character. If these really are his friends, then they would certainly know that he did not enjoy being made the butt of a joke. I just can't see any legitimate friendship where this situation has never come up before.

I will admit that they have acted immaturely in terms of their PVP actions, and that a better solution (as usual) would be to talk to the other player/DM OOC, but I think it's certainly unfair to say that OP has no legitimate complaints, no reason to be frustrated and act as they did.

Anyway I don't want to start a big argument or anything, just felt the need to defend OP in this instance.

[Sigreid]

@Fey, I like you're avatar. Very cool.

[Finback]

Yeah I could try to convince the DM to make him reroll because his stats are absolutely ludicrous. I know this guy and I believe he's honest but I could be wrong.

And yeah that was my next strategy. I'm just going to say that my character has gotten over it and will endure the dumb tricks and hope they go away.

Just have your ranger sigh, and go back to fletching more arrows/sharpening their sword, etc.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Much of this thread sounds like trying to solve out of character problems in character. I get it, we're all autistic, we deal much better with a fantasy world where we think the consequences can't get to us. But this is generally about the biggest no-no in RPG's.

If you are annoyed that his character is playing jokes or tricks on yours that need more funny and less "why is he in control of my character?", talk to him about it. If you feel like he's getting all the spotlight, while you would really like it if your character could shine a bit more in certain areas, talk to him about it. These are things that should be worked out among players, not characters. He's not going to catch your hint if the hint is having your ranger go angry and attack his wizard. And even if he does, he'll think you're a **** for trying to kill his character like that.

Trying to change the way a character is played by being aggressive towards it in game is like being angry that he was able to take your queen so easy and for the rest of the chess match trying to sabotage the game, figuring you're allowed to cheat to offset his unfair advantage.

If the player irks you as a player, talk as player to player.

[Khutef]

As some people have already said: The problem is your attitude.

Starting PvP because of harmless pranks?
You are acting like a spoiled brat.

Thinking that game should be played in specific way?
You are acting like a spoiled brat.

Relax and have fun. Don't be so uptight.


Come to think of it: the OP might be a troll. Rambling, being self-obsessed, story changes after fact checking.
Either too uptight person or a troll. If it's the latter: Well baited :).

[Sigreid]

As some people have already said: The problem is your attitude.

Starting PvP because of harmless pranks?
You are acting like a spoiled brat.

Thinking that game should be played in specific way?
You are acting like a spoiled brat.

Relax and have fun. Don't be so uptight.


Come to think of it: the OP might be a troll. Rambling, being self-obsessed, story changes after fact checking.
Either too uptight person or a troll. If it's the latter: Well baited :).

I don't agree completely with this. I, as an example, wouldn't see it as wrong to draw a line in the sand with the prankster telling him you will kill him if he crosses that line ;and following through if he crosses it. I don't think any character has an obligation to be the target of another's humor if they aren't down with it.

[Arkhios]

I don't agree completely with this. I, as an example, wouldn't see it as wrong to draw a line in the sand with the prankster telling him you will kill him if he crosses that line ;and following through if he crosses it. I don't think any character has an obligation to be the target of another's humor if they aren't down with it.

Agreed. Mocking or making fun of someone else or their character - repeatedly - is even more childish than lashing out at the prankster.

[KleineVampir]

Wow...Ok a lot of responses to this thread. I don't know if I'll respond to all of them but I will thank you all for responding and letting me vent. I think some of you guys took me more seriously than is necessary. You have to realize I was venting. It's not like I was saying all totally rational things...especially not things that can be taken out of context.

But I think I said that I would update you guys on what happened the following week. Well, yesterday, being Saturday, was the day we played D&D. SO....What happened???

Alright, well...First I called up the DM about an hour or two before we left. I told him basically the way I was feeling last time, and why I was feeling that way. I told him that I refused to play with that totally OP gnomish POS..SOB! He actually told me that he saw him roll the stats, but that just makes it even more annoying. What I've learned is this: Say no to rolling stats. I realized that I couldn't have it my way to the extent where we roll stats, but if they are what I consider to be ridiculous, you have to reroll. Ok, I can't expect people to abide by that. Fair enough. But from now on, I'm going to be insisting on point-buy and array systems of determining stats. I just can't have it both ways on that one. Besides, it was actually getting kind of weird and annoying with everybody's character being unbalanced relative to another. If I'm going to be that pissed about OP characters, I can't be behind rolling stats too. RIP my 4 big beautiful Mediterranean olive wood dice specifically crafted for that purpose! (Hey I did not start the dice war, but I ended it!)

SO...What happened after I whined and whined to the DM? Well, the player who annoyed me actually ended up DMing. He told me about a cool idea for a campaign and I liked it, so I ended up convincing the DM to let him DM, and that's what happened.

So yes, princess whined and got her way. I feel really whiny now, probably as I should. And also kind of tyrannical. BUT...I just couldn't stand it guys. I'm not gonna do 2 hours of travel time to sit there and hate my life for 5 hours. I just can't stand being in a party with a character like that. I literally will not do it.

But, you know guys, there is a little more context to this yet. I really helped make this whole thing possible. These guys literally had NO D&D experience when I was there already with my experience. Also, their first few campaigns would have been so riddled with mistakes that they would have been complete jokes. So really I'm the founder of this whole thing. That's part of the reason why I don't like to see the whole thing turned against me. I don't think it's really right since I don't think we would be there without my knowledge and perspective. Well, now that I think about it, they played with one other group one time, but it was online and a bad DM. We still make jokes about that DM pretty often. So I'm still the only one who can bring perspective into the game. And of course, they still make mistakes that I call out almost every night. These players are a bit silly in general and I am often the voice of reason in that sea of silliness and total lack of perspective. It really shows... I think you guys would agree; especially the more experienced among you.

Anyways thanks again for your responses and letting me vent! It really helped and I didn't have to spend the week feeling annoyed and angry.

[KleineVampir]

I find your attack pretty unwarranted to be honest. I don't think it's that unreasonable to have a base expectation that a DND campaign will be medieval fantasy. Not that DND can't be played in plenty of different ways, but I would certainly expect my DM to warn me if the campaign I was joining would be an atypical setting - especially, if, as it seems in this case, their previous campaigns have been more dark gritty fantasy.

I'll admit right off I don't know a huge amount about ableism or ableist issues, but it seems to me that his comment wasn't necessarily offensive, perhaps a little insensitive at worst. However, I may cede this point if you can instruct me otherwise, as I said I don't have much knowledge in this area.

I can also sympathise heavily at the frustration of having other characters humiliate or attempt to humiliate your own character - particularly if your character was meant to be a serious one. I would consider it very much in character for many medieval warriors to react violently, even lethally to somebody using magic to humiliate them. In the modern world it would certainly be seen as psychotic to kill somebody for a prank, but in medieval times mighty warriors would not suffer such insults lightly. In many cases they survive on their fearsome reputation. For this reason it would seem unfair to say the gnome is playing in character by humiliating you, but that you aren't allowed to react violently (in character) because that would be PVP. If a player is allowed to consistently act this way towards a violent perhaps moral grey character, but they aren't allowed to ever react in character then...well I think that's a bit silly tbh.

I would definitely agree that the gnome player is free to have fun their own way - up to the point where your fun impedes anothers fun. The gnome could quite easily play their pranks on NPC's - clearly the difference is they are enjoying seeing OP squirm out of character. If these really are his friends, then they would certainly know that he did not enjoy being made the butt of a joke. I just can't see any legitimate friendship where this situation has never come up before.

I will admit that they have acted immaturely in terms of their PVP actions, and that a better solution (as usual) would be to talk to the other player/DM OOC, but I think it's certainly unfair to say that OP has no legitimate complaints, no reason to be frustrated and act as they did.

Anyway I don't want to start a big argument or anything, just felt the need to defend OP in this instance.Ha, well! Little did I know people were both attacking and defending me when I didn't even know it! And yeah needless to say I basically agree with you on all that; except about the relationship between me and this guy. We are actually good friends, so you know...I really thought that he would dang well know that I do not like tricks like that! But I dunno..."Autism hurts" as I say. I think the vast majority of us have some brand of dorkiness that could be (wrongly, I think) considered autism, but this guy has it bad and for real. He can relate to you pretty well and you might not notice, but there are situations other than normal conversation that he doesn't really get.

Anyways, the moral of the story is to not roll your characters and expect players (even your friends) to feel/act a certain way with anything short of explicit intervention.

[KleineVampir]

Players like this irk me. People who assume DnD is meant to be played X way, and any other way is WROOONG. Bull****, DnD is meant to be played the way you want to play it. Just because you've been in more games than they have doesn't give you the right to parade YOUR vision on how to play the game. Some people enjoy a little powergaming, and when it's harmless that's fine.Ok I think people have misunderstood me when I said D&D should be played a certain 'way'. Well, define 'way'. This is kind of an ambiguous concept that not everybody perceives the same way.

I guess one of my beliefs pertaining to my 'way' of playing D&D is that your character should not be a purely metagame creation. For instance, you shouldn't take spells for the sole purpose of being able to combo spells in a certain way that takes advantage of the way the game works. Or do anything else that takes advantage of the way the game works. 5e is more about the RPG aspect and yeah there are probably some loopholes, but I think it's wrong to exploit them. In my mind, you're supposed to be your character, not somebody with a godlike perspective who designs their character a certain way. Your character is supposed to be a fleshed out person with a background...and did you really choose your spells all at once in this world? I tend to think you would be studying one spell at a time as a wizard, and you might end up with a repertoire that isn't completely optimal for situations in D&D. So you see, when all you do is metagame your character out to the point of exploiting every little thing, it creates a totally unrealistic character who probably wouldn't exist and makes the game feel like a video game or something rather than D&D where everybody's a somewhat flawed character with a semi-believable backstory.

I dunno, maybe it's because I know this guy and what he does, and basically he does this with all games. This isn't the first time he's done this, or the last. So it's not like I'm suddenly disapproving of the way he plays out of nowhere like people here seem to be getting the impression. He has a long history of doing annoying exploits, often at the expense of everyone else. And he really should know by now that nobody likes that kind of play. I really don't appreciate it and I think it disrespects the idea of D&D, that I brought when I basically founded this group. So...I think there's more going on than people realize.

[KleineVampir]

1) maybe this has been pointed out, but stuff like the airships are far from impossible. Mind flayers, as per the volo's guide to monsters, have their own form of alien inter-dimensional vessel, as well as the githyankee. Frogemoths are rumoured to have arrived in metal cylinders from the sky. And in the list of vehicles, airships, much like zeppelins, exist as possibilities.

I like to refer to thinks like full metal alchemist, where a lot of practices we have in our world, are replaced with magic means, like transmutation. Human ingenuity is powerful. Imagine the other sentient beings.

2) my worst time was probably my last couple of sessions. A player had joined our campaign like 2 sessions maybe after we started. My character gets grabbed by a dragon in a discussion, and the new player stumbles in to see this, and attacks the dragon. Dragon kills him in one go. That's about all this player ever got to do, so we set out to try and get him brought back from the dead.

OOC, it was upsetting. He JUST got to play and is dead because he didn't know what was going on and tried to help my character. IC, my character felt incredibly guilty. He blamed himself (kind of part of his personality to have an overly bleeding heart). My character was the one to convince the others to help. Basically "I can't go with you. I'll just get you all killed." So they agreed to seek out someone who could help. Well all but one.

I was an arcane trickster rogue. This guy? Thief rogue. This guy would steal everything if he could. He somehow stole my bedroll while I was dying, would always try to "hide" in a crowded tavern (we were all humans so no halfling hiding) or a crowd in the street and just attemp to steal things without any kind of reconnaissance or observing. But the worst thing was that his character "didn't care". He couldn't be bothered to come up with a reason to make his character care about helping another member of the party. New or not. He didn't see it as his problem. And almost convinced the rest of the players (not even their characters, just their players) that it wasn't worth the effort.

Now, I get if you want to play a moody, brooding, selfish type. But if your character is THAT bad, why is he in the party to begin with? Why play with us at all if all you're going to do is add to the **** we have to deal with as players?Ok about the guy who immediately got killed by a dragon...sounds like an "autism hurts" situation, as I say. Who would let a brand new character die right away?? Sounds like either plain old bad DMing or bad DMing with a touch of being way too strict and serious. Like you said, the dude just spent a good while making his character. Like, really dude? Though...I gotta wonder why that character was exposed to a dragon at all. Also wouldn't that character get scared if he was really that fragile compared to the dragon? I don't think you can really just be some level 1 and walk up to a dragon and attack it.

Stealing somebody's bedroll while they're laying there bleeding out is one of the douchiest things I've ever heard in my life. I think you would almost have to just be pure evil to do that.

[KleineVampir]

Frankly, your responses here seem quite immature.



I don't know how you define the "spirit of the game," but I define it as having fun. And it sounds like this gnome girl is doing that. Maybe you're the one who doesn't understand the spirit of the game?



This is ableist garbage, and as an autistic person myself, I'm offended at your crudity.



There is no "certain way" to play D&D. Every game and group is different. I've played in serious groups that focus on big plots and role playing, and lighthearted groups that just like to goof off and have fun. Just because this person is playing differently than you doesn't make them wrong.



Clearly, you've never read Harry Potter.

I don't know what definition of "the spirit of the game" you're going by that doesn't allow someone to play a brilliant teenage girl who instead of sewing and cooking and getting ready to be married off to someone, instead studies and develops a magnificent talent she can use to take on the world, but if your game doesn't have room for that, then that's YOUR problem, not theirs.



You're really judgmental and immature if you think a minor prank like an illusionary steak is "taking away as much dignity from people as possible." It sounds like harmless fun to me. She didn't hurt you or your wolf. Lighten up and learn to have some fun once in awhile.



Okay, so you think someone making an illusion of a pink nose justifies murder? And you think your friend is the one with the problem.

YOU clearly have a serious problem. In character, it makes NO SENSE for your character to resort to murder over a silly prank. And out of character, it makes NO SENSE for you to attack another player and ruin the game over harmless things like this. If you want the gnome to stop this sort of thing, talk to them and be mature, instead of attacking their character. You need to grow up.

It's just a GAME after all.



You clearly don't mean owner what D&D is really about. It's about fun and imagination. And if you think airships shouldn't exist in D&D, go watch some Aquisitions Incorporated. It's run by Chris Perkins... you'll find his name inside the front cover of your 5th edition rule books. He added an airship to his D&D game. But I guess one of the lead game designers who HELPED WRITE THE BOOK doesn't know what D&D is all about.

Also, I could show you a 1st edition D&D campaign setting that has airships.



Where, exactly, does it say that? I've many times included in my games things like time travel to a future setting with advanced technology, or alternate universes where things are more advanced. And there's even official D&D material in many editions listing the stats of advanced weapons, from guns to laser cannons! If YOU only want to play a medieval game, that's on you. Don't act like there's no place in D&D for more than that.

It sounds like you need an attitude adjustment. Stop whining about everything and either lighten up, or find a different group to play with who wants to play with your restricted, unimaginative version of D&D.Excuse me!!

Well you could read some of my other recent posts that hopefully cleared some things up. Maybe it will make a difference for those of you who feel I was in the wrong, maybe it won't. But there is a LOOOONG history of this dude being like this, and he should know by now that I don't like that kind of thing. So it's less "out of nowhere" than I think I lead everybody to believe. Also I believe my character with a noble background really would have attacked him...and you're making attacking him out to being murder when all I did was chip off a little bit from his 72 health....a meager 11 damage and that was a crit! So honestly it wasn't really about all-out murder, it was about sending a message! I think if I was winning that fight, I would have dropped the little gnome and then stabilized her. It was more like a duel kind of thing, and not to the death. Neither of our characters is capable of killing the other outright with one attack, even at 1 HP.

And about offending you with my "ablist garbage", I think you reacted without knowing the full context of the situation, as what I'm thinking many people did. I'm saying that to even include me and how my life is. If it makes you feel any better, I'm actually a disabled vet with plenty of problems. It's not easy for me to be showing up to this D&D session 60 miles away, and I really helped get the group off the ground and probably a big reason why it's managed to last this long. And yeah, maybe I am starting to instill my bias into the way I think the game should be played; but these guys have practically no idea how the game is played, so I'm trying to have some kind of baseline here.

Also sorry if I offended anyone. But...notice that a lot of my friends have autism. So that means that I'm generally accepting of this condition and trust me, I've suffered through some insanely autistic moments but I'm still with them!

[Jerrykhor]

Excuse me!!

Well you could read some of my other recent posts that hopefully cleared some things up. Maybe it will make a difference for those of you who feel I was in the wrong, maybe it won't. But there is a LOOOONG history of this dude being like this, and he should know by now that I don't like that kind of thing. So it's less "out of nowhere" than I think I lead everybody to believe. Also I believe my character with a noble background really would have attacked him...and you're making attacking him out to being murder when all I did was chip off a little bit from his 72 health....a meager 11 damage and that was a crit! So honestly it wasn't really about all-out murder, it was about sending a message! I think if I was winning that fight, I would have dropped the little gnome and then stabilized her. It was more like a duel kind of thing, and not to the death. Neither of our characters is capable of killing the other outright with one attack, even at 1 HP.


And here I thought you were against meta-gaming. "Its just 11 hit points, that's like a paper cut!"

Excuse me? Who swings a sword at a person without the intention to seriously wound or kill them? Even just pointing a sword or dagger at someone is threatening to kill. Maybe you've been playing too much LARP or something, but I dont think anyone would forgive you because it was 'just a few hit points'. Because if they did, you'd accuse them of meta-gaming.

And you are a noble, not a thug. Why are you resorting to violence? Seriously, you make me cringe. You accuse others of meta-gaming, yet you yourself are doing it.

[Sabeta]

This thread, is fun. You guys agree, with me, right??

I'm sorry TC, but those typing habits are certainly odd to me. Anyway, I agree with the majority of the people here. Gnomes are known to be tricksters, in fact I believe one of their gods played a prank so hard that the Kobold's God got stuck in a maze for all eternity, and now have a fierce and bitter rivalry. As far as I can tell, this Gnome Wizard is being roleplayed in a rather lore-friendly way, even if it is obnoxious.

For Dice Rolling, an older DM I had had a good solution. You cannot roll higher than the maximum bought points. So even if you rolled an 18 that got nerfed down to 15 right away. You could in theory have straight 15s, but that's still better than a level 1 with 20 INT.

Oh, and try to keep your thoughts in one post. There's a button for editing your post if you need to add to it.

Most of what I see though, is you're just inflexible. You have a very rigid way of thinking how the game should play, and in my opinion inflexibility is the only true way to go against the "spirit of the game"

[KleineVampir]

And here I thought you were against meta-gaming. "Its just 11 hit points, that's like a paper cut!"

Excuse me? Who swings a sword at a person without the intention to seriously wound or kill them? Even just pointing a sword or dagger at someone is threatening to kill. Maybe you've been playing too much LARP or something, but I dont think anyone would forgive you because it was 'just a few hit points'. Because if they did, you'd accuse them of meta-gaming.

And you are a noble, not a thug. Why are you resorting to violence? Seriously, you make me cringe. You accuse others of meta-gaming, yet you yourself are doing it.Resorting to violence...well, I'm imagining this to be about the 15th century or something like that. At that time rapiers existed and people used to have duels. That's not really what I was thinking when I attacked him, but I think it's a decent point to make. Like somebody on here said, this attack would be totally unthinkable in modern day society...thankfully we've evolved to be less violent over time. That's great...but this isn't modern times, buddy boy! These are the old days, when blood was spilled over honor. You insult my wolf, play tricks on me for no reason...yes he will straight up stab you once you push him over the edge.

And about metagaming...that's kind of metagaming after the fact. I didn't base my whole character on metagaming so hard that I was exploiting the rules like this guy; and I didn't metagame when I made the decision to attack. I actually don't mind metagaming when it comes to say, picking your class. I wouldn't want to end up with 4 squishy magic-users, for instance. Or too many healers. And yeah I try to make my character good and perform a certain function, but that's barely metagaming at that point. Everybody puts their stats where they want them, in the particular stats that make them more effective characters. There's powergaming, and then there's just powergaming to the point of just exploiting everything, and I don't agree with that exploitation. Some people might not mind it but I do.

The battle on this thread is between those who believe in more strict guidelines to keep people comfortable, or to make D&D what they consider to be proper. Then there are players who are arguing that there should be no lines and players should do whatever they want. I would be in the first camp. Do 'whatever you want' but within reason and not at the expense of others. Basic politeness and respect are things that I want upheld in the game.

Don't insult the wolf, man! Ever since I made the dang wolf, the DM and the players have made me regret it. First, the DM kept referring to it as a dog and kept controlling it until I finally got pissed and told him it's my dang wolf and he doesn't control it. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. So that was annoying, and then the first time I interact with that gnome, he tricks it with a steak in a way that's embarrassing to both me and the wolf. Then he calls the wolf a poopsmear, essentially. Not only that, but he presumes to name my wolf. Just because I didn't have a name for him right away, since I was dealing with my character creation and just wanted a character I could put out into the world... He didn't give me any time, he said if I don't have a name for it that he's gonna name it. I'm sorry, but that's too much. That's the kind of crap I was thinking about when I attacked him. It's a physical reaction to what's basically emotional/psychological abuse. (Something I am not fond of.)

[Jerrykhor]

Resorting to violence...well, I'm imagining this to be about the 15th century or something like that. At that time rapiers existed and people used to have duels. That's not really what I was thinking when I attacked him, but I think it's a decent point to make. Like somebody on here said, this attack would be totally unthinkable in modern day society...thankfully we've evolved to be less violent over time. That's great...but this isn't modern times, buddy boy! These are the old days, when blood was spilled over honor. You insult my wolf, play tricks on me for no reason...yes he will straight up stab you once you push him over the edge.

And about metagaming...that's kind of metagaming after the fact. I didn't base my whole character on metagaming so hard that I was exploiting the rules like this guy; and I didn't metagame when I made the decision to attack. I actually don't mind metagaming when it comes to say, picking your class. I wouldn't want to end up with 4 squishy magic-users, for instance. Or too many healers. And yeah I try to make my character good and perform a certain function, but that's barely metagaming at that point. Everybody puts their stats where they want them, in the particular stats that make them more effective characters. There's powergaming, and then there's just powergaming to the point of just exploiting everything, and I don't agree with that exploitation. Some people might not mind it but I do.

The battle on this thread is between those who believe in more strict guidelines to keep people comfortable, or to make D&D what they consider to be proper. Then there are players who are arguing that there should be no lines and players should do whatever they want. I would be in the first camp. Do 'whatever you want' but within reason and not at the expense of others. Basic politeness and respect are things that I want upheld in the game.

Don't insult the wolf, man! Ever since I made the dang wolf, the DM and the players have made me regret it. First, the DM kept referring to it as a dog and kept controlling it until I finally got pissed and told him it's my dang wolf and he doesn't control it. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. So that was annoying, and then the first time I interact with that gnome, he tricks it with a steak in a way that's embarrassing to both me and the wolf. Then he calls the wolf a poopsmear, essentially. Not only that, but he presumes to name my wolf. Just because I didn't have a name for him right away, since I was dealing with my character creation and just wanted a character I could put out into the world... He didn't give me any time, he said if I don't have a name for it that he's gonna name it. I'm sorry, but that's too much. That's the kind of crap I was thinking about when I attacked him. It's a physical reaction to what's basically emotional/psychological abuse. (Something I am not fond of.)
But it wasn't a duel. You attacked him outright. Attacking someone with a sword is the equivalent of shooting someone with a gun: You never do it without the intention to kill, or wound them bad enough to put them out of action for a considerable amount of time. There is no point to make. I don't know what logic you have, but its all wrong. WRONG. Its a hostile act, and any sane person would defend themselves with everything they got. You said the gnome 'hid like a little bitch'? I'm starting to think he actually made a very gentlemanly choice, probably to avoid having to kill you, because you wouldn't stand a chance.

You must be a special kind of stupid, if you think people in the 15th century swing swords at each other for fun, or treat duels to the death as casual sport.

I'm starting to wonder, if they treat you like this because of your silly uptight attitude that nobody likes.

[KleineVampir]

This thread, is fun. You guys agree, with me, right??

I'm sorry TC, but those typing habits are certainly odd to me. Anyway, I agree with the majority of the people here. Gnomes are known to be tricksters, in fact I believe one of their gods played a prank so hard that the Kobold's God got stuck in a maze for all eternity, and now have a fierce and bitter rivalry. As far as I can tell, this Gnome Wizard is being roleplayed in a rather lore-friendly way, even if it is obnoxious.

For Dice Rolling, an older DM I had had a good solution. You cannot roll higher than the maximum bought points. So even if you rolled an 18 that got nerfed down to 15 right away. You could in theory have straight 15s, but that's still better than a level 1 with 20 INT.

Oh, and try to keep your thoughts in one post. There's a button for editing your post if you need to add to it.

Most of what I see though, is you're just inflexible. You have a very rigid way of thinking how the game should play, and in my opinion inflexibility is the only true way to go against the "spirit of the game"Um...I think my typing is pretty good and sorry if the information about this is a bit spread out. I try to reply to specific posts, and sometimes I put supplementary information in there when I get to rambling. But usually that information is along the lines of what was brought up.

Anyways, like I said before, the point of contention is between having rigid guidelines that protect against things like being humiliated by your own party members or not. I'm really not that picky about anything else or what people do in general; I just have a low tolerance for disrespect, insults, and tricks that are meant to cause aggravation, that are basically things people are doing at other real players' expense. It's really only that kind of thing where I draw the line.

I think it's a basic understood thing in D&D that the characters are supposed to work together/have adventures together...that sort of thing. I think it's a thing they even say in the book. So when things start going against that and start making the group dysfunctional in a way that my character would likely leave the party...well...yeah I don't think that's right. At what point do you start upholding the fundamentals of the game? Would you just let your party fight each other the whole time? This is the kind of 'way' I was talking about to play D&D...not some nuanced opinion about how everything should go. Just let's at least agree to work together, at least in general if not all the time.

[Sabeta]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kender_(Dragonlance)

Seriously, there's an entire race dedicated to playing pranks on the party. The deal with harmless pranks is that they're harmless. If YOU were humiliated, that's YOUR problem. The Gnome is having fun how they have it, and so far hasn't cost you a single point of damage. Your retort with stabbing a 15 year old girl in the side for essentially being a bratty kid. Yeah, super mature of you. You're a paragon of virtue. Though this topic has intrigued me; I'll do a more systematic breakdown of why I feel you're in the wrong in a moment.

I'll summarize it in advance though: I don't think the Gnome has done even a single thing wrong. You are 100% just an aggressor, and the party would probably be happier if you left.

My comment, about, your typing, by the way, is that, you use, way, too, many, commas. It's jarring, to pause, almost, between every, word.

[KleineVampir]

But it wasn't a duel. You attacked him outright. Attacking someone with a sword is the equivalent of shooting someone with a gun: You never do it without the intention to kill, or wound them bad enough to put them out of action for a considerable amount of time. There is no point to make. I don't know what logic you have, but its all wrong. WRONG. Its a hostile act, and any sane person would defend themselves with everything they got. You said the gnome 'hid like a little bitch'? I'm starting to think he actually made a very gentlemanly choice, probably to avoid having to kill you, because you wouldn't stand a chance.

You must be a special kind of stupid, if you think people in the 15th century swing swords at each other for fun, or treat duels to the death as casual sport.

I'm starting to wonder, if they treat you like this because of your silly uptight attitude that nobody likes.Ok dude... I don't think attacking me is really appropriate here. I think we should be arguing about the topic, not just making personal attacks and insults.

And actually no, he hid because he couldn't win. He told me himself. He didn't have enough spell slots to fight me...even with his ridic OP character.

You might have a point about me being uptight but heck man, nobody's perfect. I work on my flaws as a human being and I think I'm pretty good, but definitely not perfect.

A lot of the uptight-ness I think comes from the noble. He's kinda like me except even more uptight. So yeah my friends are probably reacting to that moreso than my actual self. We all get along pretty well in real life.

Your view about attacking somebody like I did is your opinion. Maybe it was wrong. So what? I didn't have all day to think about it. I was pissed off to that point so I attacked whether it was right or not. And I think he had plenty reason to do it. When you insult and humiliate a noble, you're insulting his whole house and everything it stands for too. I figured he wouldn't just take what was being dished out. Some might disagree. So what?

[KleineVampir]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kender_(Dragonlance)

Seriously, there's an entire race dedicated to playing pranks on the party. The deal with harmless pranks is that they're harmless. If YOU were humiliated, that's YOUR problem. The Gnome is having fun how they have it, and so far hasn't cost you a single point of damage. Your retort with stabbing a 15 year old girl in the side for essentially being a bratty kid. Yeah, super mature of you. You're a paragon of virtue. Though this topic has intrigued me; I'll do a more systematic breakdown of why I feel you're in the wrong in a moment.

I'll summarize it in advance though: I don't think the Gnome has done even a single thing wrong. You are 100% just an aggressor, and the party would probably be happier if you left.

My comment, about, your typing, by the way, is that, you use, way, too, many, commas. It's jarring, to pause, almost, between every, word.Well excuse me! I use commas as generic breaks when the conversation on the internet is informal. And you people think I'm whiny! ;)

About the issue of my character attacking in response to tricks and insults...I think I have written enough about that already. I think you should be able to find something about that and read it, like in my last reply.

[Sigreid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kender_(Dragonlance)

I'll summarize it in advance though: I don't think the Gnome has done even a single thing wrong. You are 100% just an aggressor, and the party would probably be happier if you left.


If, in character, the OP warned the gnome that pranks would be treated as a deadly serious matter then I would not have a problem with attacking in response to a prank. No player or character has an obligation to be another character's fool. We all know people who will not respond well to a joke and most people who play jokes refrain from playing jokes on them if it is all meant to be in good fun. Storming is fairly normal in teams. And real teamwork usually only starts when people learn each other's lines and respect them.

That being said, it's possible for this team to now work properly. If the gnome, now knowing how much the ranger hates the pranks, refrains from pranking the ranger out of respect and fellowship then there doesn't need to be any further conflict. It's not really fair though to expect one person to just deal with the pranks he's not down with.

[Jerrykhor]

Ok dude... I don't think attacking me is really appropriate here. I think we should be arguing about the topic, not just making personal attacks and insults.

And actually no, he hid because he couldn't win. He told me himself. He didn't have enough spell slots to fight me...even with his ridic OP character.

You might have a point about me being uptight but heck man, nobody's perfect. I work on my flaws as a human being and I think I'm pretty good, but definitely not perfect.

A lot of the uptight-ness I think comes from the noble. He's kinda like me except even more uptight. So yeah my friends are probably reacting to that moreso than my actual self. We all get along pretty well in real life.

Your view about attacking somebody like I did is your opinion. Maybe it was wrong. So what? I didn't have all day to think about it. I was pissed off to that point so I attacked whether it was right or not. And I think he had plenty reason to do it. When you insult and humiliate a noble, you're insulting his whole house and everything it stands for too. I figured he wouldn't just take what was being dished out. Some might disagree. So what?
Its not an insult when its true, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Opinion? Its not an opinion, its a fact. Attacking with a weapon is a crime, harmless pranks are not. You can try taking a knife and slash someone who called your mom a whore. You're going to jail, not him. Yes, even in the 15th century. What are you going to tell the judge, that its just 8 hit points?

There's no other way to put it. Like everyone said, you are flat out wrong.

Also, you are a poor role player. A person who gets violent at insults is exactly what a thug/brute/gangster/lout is. Nobles don't try to attack a person for insulting him, they get him trialed and sentenced for prison. Or they get their henchmen to beat him up.

[KleineVampir]

Its not an insult when its true, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Opinion? Its not an opinion, its a fact. You can try taking a knife and slash someone who called your mom a whore. You're going to jail, not him. Yes, even in the 15th century. What are you going to tell the judge, that its just 8 hit points?

There's no other way to put it. Like everyone said, you are flat out wrong.

Also, you are a poor role player. A person who gets violent at insults is exactly what a thug/brute/gangster/lout is. Nobles don't try to attack a person for insulting him, they get him trialed and sentenced for prison. Or they get their henchmen to beat him up.Maybe you don't understand that this wasn't in castle walls or something. This was in a downed airship in the middle of huge plains during a huge war that was going on elsewhere. It is basically a totally lawless time and place and there ain't no henchmen. I thought that a noble would defend his honor for right or for wrong. Even if it was wrong, what's your point? I guess your point would be that you disagree with my attitude. Ok...sorry?

Now that you're trying to qualify your opinions as facts and insulting me, who's the violent thug now? I'm actually arguing without insinuating that the poster is inferior in any way. Tell me if that's not true.

Also not everybody is against me on this. I think at least one guy was basically with me on everything and others have agreed with me on a partial basis. Whether stabbing him was right or wrong is a fun point of contention but it's not what's really important. What's important is where you draw the lines in your campaign in regards to PVP harassment.

[ross]

So his character constantly insists that his name is Graywind Poop-smear the third.

Are you playing with 8 year olds? If so, why?

[Jerrykhor]

What's important is where you draw the lines in your campaign in regards to PVP harassment.

Whatever or wherever that line is, you definitely crossed it. Playing pranks however, is highly arguable. Note the word 'highly'. And 'arguable'. I don't think attacking another PC is defendable, for any reason other than in self-defense.

Behaving like a lawless person in lawless areas is definitely what a thug would do. Doesn't make it right. And that's not how you defend your honour, if you even had any. You don't know how to RP a noble, because a noble would never do anything that would tarnish his family name, much less commit a crime.

You can try asking your friends, or anyone, is it reasonable to attack someone with a sword if she insulted/pranked my pet? I doubt anyone would say yes.

[Sigreid]

Its not an insult when its true, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Opinion? Its not an opinion, its a fact. Attacking with a weapon is a crime, harmless pranks are not. You can try taking a knife and slash someone who called your mom a whore. You're going to jail, not him. Yes, even in the 15th century. What are you going to tell the judge, that its just 8 hit points?

There's no other way to put it. Like everyone said, you are flat out wrong.

Also, you are a poor role player. A person who gets violent at insults is exactly what a thug/brute/gangster/lout is. Nobles don't try to attack a person for insulting him, they get him trialed and sentenced for prison. Or they get their henchmen to beat him up.

Actually in the modern U.S. a prank with a physical component, particularly after you've been told to stop, is criminal battery.

[KleineVampir]

Are you playing with 8 year olds? If so, why?I think I mentioned this before, but he actually thought that his gnome was the equivalent of an 8 year old at age 30 because he doesn't understand the whole maturation thing in D&D. Gnomes mature about like humans if I remember right. So that makes his character even more annoying than it already was...because it was being RPed totally wrong and he halved his age from 30 to 15 in the middle of the game.

[Sabeta]

1) TC starts his post out by trying to win us to his side by implying the player he has a problem against is cheating. No proof, just baseless accusations. This already raises red flags to me.
2) He then says you can't be a Wizard if you're 15. Because "it's against the spirit of the game."
3) Okay so here's where it gets bad. The Gnome makes the Paladin's nose glow...so you stab her...

Alright first let's assess the situation
A) You hate metagaming and believe your choices should reflect character, but you carry a Rapier? You're aware that Rapiers aren't realistic weapons for standard combat, and were primarily duelist weapons right? Oh but wait, Rangers love their Dex Score, so you took the best melee weapon you could and called it a day. But when the Gnome uses Rope Trick it's super unforgivable guise.
B) He asserts that the Gnome cannot make the Paladin bright pink because medieval fantasy wouldn't know of such a color. Despite the fact that Fairie Fire defaults to that (or at least lists it as one of many possible color options)
C) At seeing his friend getting tricked by a Gnome he STABS HER. He didn't say "I warned her" He just straight attacks her, then has the audacity to call her "a little bitch" for running away and follows that up with complaining that he couldn't kill her.
C-i) Let's not forget, that Gnomes worship a Trickster God. Gnome Wizards who play tricks on people with Illusions are the norm, and this character is entirely lore friendly.
C-ii) They're also a natural talent with magic. It comes easy for them. So it's hardly a prodigy to learn magic at a young age.

So no, **** you TC for trying to con people into thinking this was in some way a respectable duel. You attacked a little girl because she annoyed you. More than that, you tried to KILL her character. You even admit that she could have killed you, and probably would have won, but she took the high road and left you alone.

4) Then, you say that the other players will prevent you from attacking her again. So wait, you mean to tell me that the party is willing to protect the little girl from you? How could not see yourself as anything BUT the bad guy here? The party is clearly okay or only mildly annoyed by her tricks, and then you suddenly try to murder her for being a Gnome.

5) The rest of the post is equally damnable though. Not only are there high magic settings where Airships and magitech make sense within official D&D Lore, but even with the default setting of Faerun they can exist (In published adventures no less!). Then, the rest of this post makes it seem like you're just not paying attention to the story at all.

6) Chaotic Good is a pretty typical Gnome Alignment. You're the only one who has a problem with the Gnome, so YOU'RE the dysfunctional one, not the Gnome. By your own logic, you're the one against the spirit of the game.

So let's summarize:

You're completely disregarding the DMs story because certain aspects don't make sense to you. Probably, because you weren't paying attention to it at all. Then you assault another player because you didn't like them. Seriously, my advice is thus. Leave that party. You clearly don't like them, and they probably don't like you. All I see from you is a destructive player who has a problem when someone roleplays well, because the character they're roleplaying is against your personal taste.

[CantigThimble]

For anyone wondering what the point is in having a session zero to talk about things like the tone of the campaign and how to resolve inter-party conflict, this thread is a perfect example of why that is important to do; BEFORE you get into a hot mess and the only way for the party to hold together is for one of two characters to die or leave.

[Jerrykhor]

A) You hate metagaming and believe your choices should reflect character, but you carry a Rapier? You're aware that Rapiers aren't realistic weapons for standard combat, and were primarily duelist weapons right? Oh but wait, Rangers love their Dex Score, so you took the best melee weapon you could and called it a day. But when the Gnome uses Rope Trick it's super unforgivable guise.


Busted:smallbiggrin:

[Sabeta]

If, in character, the OP warned the gnome that pranks would be treated as a deadly serious matter then I would not have a problem with attacking in response to a prank. No player or character has an obligation to be another character's fool. We all know people who will not respond well to a joke and most people who play jokes refrain from playing jokes on them if it is all meant to be in good fun.

Sure, but the Paladin getting his nose turned colors is what triggered TC; a ranger, to stab the Gnome. He also did not specifiy that he would kill the Gnome if she played pranks, so as far as I can tell it's a completely out-of-the-blue assault.

[KleineVampir]

1) TC starts his post out by trying to win us to his side by implying the player he has a problem against is cheating. No proof, just baseless accusations. This already raises red flags to me.
2) He then says you can't be a Wizard if you're 15. Because "it's against the spirit of the game."
3) Okay so here's where it gets bad. The Gnome makes the Paladin's nose glow...so you stab her...

Alright first let's assess the situation
A) You hate metagaming and believe your choices should reflect character, but you carry a Rapier? You're aware that Rapiers aren't realistic weapons for standard combat, and were primarily duelist weapons right? Oh but wait, Rangers love their Dex Score, so you took the best melee weapon you could and called it a day. But when the Gnome uses Rope Trick it's super unforgivable guise.
B) He asserts that the Gnome cannot make the Paladin bright pink because medieval fantasy wouldn't know of such a color. Despite the fact that Fairie Fire defaults to that (or at least lists it as one of many possible color options)
C) At seeing his friend getting tricked by a Gnome he STABS HER. He didn't say "I warned her" He just straight attacks her, then has the audacity to call her "a little bitch" for running away and follows that up with complaining that he couldn't kill her.
C-i) Let's not forget, that Gnomes worship a Trickster God. Gnome Wizards who play tricks on people with Illusions are the norm, and this character is entirely lore friendly.
C-ii) They're also a natural talent with magic. It comes easy for them. So it's hardly a prodigy to learn magic at a young age.

So no, **** you TC for trying to con people into thinking this was in some way a respectable duel. You attacked a little girl because she annoyed you. More than that, you tried to KILL her character. You even admit that she could have killed you, and probably would have won, but she took the high road and left you alone.

4) Then, you say that the other players will prevent you from attacking her again. So wait, you mean to tell me that the party is willing to protect the little girl from you? How could not see yourself as anything BUT the bad guy here? The party is clearly okay or only mildly annoyed by her tricks, and then you suddenly try to murder her for being a Gnome.

5) The rest of the post is equally damnable though. Not only are there high magic settings where Airships and magitech make sense within official D&D Lore, but even with the default setting of Faerun they can exist (In published adventures no less!). Then, the rest of this post makes it seem like you're just not paying attention to the story at all.

6) Chaotic Good is a pretty typical Gnome Alignment. You're the only one who has a problem with the Gnome, so YOU'RE the dysfunctional one, not the Gnome. By your own logic, you're the one against the spirit of the game.

So let's summarize:

You're completely disregarding the DMs story because certain aspects don't make sense to you. Probably, because you weren't paying attention to it at all. Then you assault another player because you didn't like them. Seriously, my advice is thus. Leave that party. You clearly don't like them, and they probably don't like you. All I see from you is a destructive player who has a problem when someone roleplays well, because the character they're roleplaying is against your personal taste.I was venting. And you are reading it and trying to break it down logically. Also, I think I've addressed everything you brought up. Read my other posts today that clarify the matter...not a week ago when I was venting.

Do I have a problem with extreme disrespect? Yes I do. Sue me people!

[Sabeta]

So you're saying you didn't stab the Gnome in response to harmless prank when it's entirely within their character's; no, their entire race's personality to behave that way?

[KleineVampir]

Busted:smallbiggrin:Actually I addressed that in a previous post. I see you're resorting to pack tactics now, ganging up on me. I guess it takes more than one with me.

[KleineVampir]

So you're saying you didn't stab the Gnome in response to harmless prank when it's entirely within their character's; no, their entire race's personality to behave that way?I didn't stab her just because of that one prank. If you'd read my other posts, you'd know that he did a slew of other offenses before this one, including insulting and humiliating both me and my wolf among more offenses. That prank was just the last straw.

[Jerrykhor]

Actually I addressed that in a previous post. I see you're resorting to pack tactics now, ganging up on me. I guess it takes more than one with me.

That's what you think. I don't need to resort to that, my opinion is my own, that guy just coincidentally happen to have the same ability as me: To call out bull**** when we see it.

You still think your actions are justifiable? You still think you are right? You come here, to pass judgement on your party members, trying to justify your PVP actions. You are emotional, and that clouds your judgement. Maybe one day, you will look back at yourself and laugh, but right now, that's what you are: A poor player.

[Sigreid]

Sure, but the Paladin getting his nose turned colors is what triggered TC; a ranger, to stab the Gnome. He also did not specifiy that he would kill the Gnome if she played pranks, so as far as I can tell it's a completely out-of-the-blue assault.

I missed that it was a prank on another player that triggered the attack. Yes, that's too far.

[KleineVampir]

That's what you think. I don't need to resort to that, my opinion is my own, that guy just coincidentally happen to have the same ability as me: To call out bull**** when we see it.

You still think your actions are justifiable? You still think you are right? You come here, to pass judgement on your party members, trying to justify your PVP actions. You are emotional, and that clouds your judgement. Maybe one day, you will look back at yourself and laugh, but right now, that's what you are: A poor player.Uh...Excuse me, but I think you're the one being emotional here. You were the first to fire off insults against me and not the argument. Also I don't have to justify my pvp actions. I did it. Whatcha gon' do about it mane???

[Sabeta]

Whatcha gon' do about it mane???

Wow, any doubts I had about you have been cleared. You're clearly the problem. Get over yourself.
For the record, you threw the first insult when you called the Gnome a "little bitch"

=Edit=
I also couldn't find any of your posts that justify why you picked a Rapier. Unless, your character actually is a duelist, and were intending to PvP from the beginning. In which case that's even worse.

=Doubledit=
When I called you out on your bull****, you waived it away with "I was venting". Doesn't that by definition make you emotional?

[Jerrykhor]

Uh...Excuse me, but I think you're the one being emotional here. You were the first to fire off insults against me and not the argument. Also I don't have to justify my pvp actions. I did it. Whatcha gon' do about it mane???

Like I said before, it is not an insult if its true.

The point is: You won't be judged if you don't judge others. You are being VERY unreasonable, and you don't even have basic logical thinking of choices and consequences. If you were a DnD character, you'd have Int of 7 and Wis of 4.

There is no point in talking to you anymore.

[Theodoxus]

5e is a different beast.

I wish more people would get that - instead of trying to remold it into 3.X on steroids.

If anything, I'd wish more folk would take the 3.X rules and mod them with the good stuff from 5e rather than the other way - makes a ton more sense.

[KleineVampir]

Like I said before, it is not an insult if its true.

The point is: You won't be judged if you don't judge others. You are being VERY unreasonable, and you don't even have basic logical thinking of choices and consequences. If you were a DnD character, you'd have Int of 7 and Wis of 4.

There is no point in talking to you anymore.You say these things because deep down you know I'm smarter than you. I've lived my whole life like this so I can tell.

And yeah I agree there's no sense in talking to either of you. You guys are apparently not understanding what I'm writing, so that's inherently problematic.

I said that I do allow a certain amount of metagaming, like trying to have a well balanced party and putting stats into your character so that it's actually a good character. I get powergaming it to an extent, but we all know that this guy likes to exploit everything all the time; and we're already fed up with it - or at least I am!

[Jerrykhor]

You say these things because deep down you know I'm smarter than you. I've lived my whole life like this so I can tell.

And yeah I agree there's no sense in talking to either of you. You guys are apparently not understanding what I'm writing, so that's inherently problematic.

I said that I do allow a certain amount of metagaming, like trying to have a well balanced party and putting stats into your character so that it's actually a good character. I get powergaming it to an extent, but we all know that this guy likes to exploit everything all the time; and we're already fed up with it - or at least I am!

Smarter than me? You mean like coming to the forums, asking for everyone's opinion, then reject them when they don't sound so nice? Real smart logic there....

Listen, I wouldn't be continue posting, wasting time in telling your stubborn, obtuse brain that you are wrong, if not for the fact that you actually think attacking childish people (who are usually children) for playing childish pranks is the right thing to do. What's worrying is that you actually have killing intent. I trust you can differentiate from games and reality, but still, cant help but imagine which poor kid you might smack for pranking your humourless, uptight ass. Kids will be kids. Gnomes will be gnomes.

[Pr6i6e6st]

This thread has turned into quite a bit of a little flame war over opinions. I'm kinda calling foul on the majority of comments here. OP was frustrated with reoccurring situations, maybe didn't explain himself properly, was a little bit crude, but everyone else are also getting quite obligerant with their comments. It's getting condescending in here at the least.

Perhaps people can just post things that irk them like the title says? Make it a place for venting and not attacking people's perspectives?

The way people are going at it at least, if op was frustrated, none of this is helping diffuse the situation and come with a resolution

[Sabeta]

snip

Not understanding you? You came into this thread to vent about a character you hated, as if we would agree with someone who stabs another player for casting harmless illusions.

[KleineVampir]

This thread has turned into quite a bit of a little flame war over opinions. I'm kinda calling foul on the majority of comments here. OP was frustrated with reoccurring situations, maybe didn't explain himself properly, was a little bit crude, but everyone else are also getting quite obligerant with their comments. It's getting condescending in here at the least.

Perhaps people can just post things that irk them like the title says? Make it a place for venting and not attacking people's perspectives?

The way people are going at it at least, if op was frustrated, none of this is helping diffuse the situation and come with a resolutionI tried to keep it civil but they started insulting me. I don't start **** but I finish it. We got a couple people who are almost just saying random things to make me look bad at this point.

[KleineVampir]

Smarter than me? You mean like coming to the forums, asking for everyone's opinion, then reject them when they don't sound so nice? Real smart logic there....

Listen, I wouldn't be continue posting, wasting time in telling your stubborn, obtuse brain that you are wrong, if not for the fact that you actually think attacking childish people (who are usually children) for playing childish pranks is the right thing to do. What's worrying is that you actually have killing intent. I trust you can differentiate from games and reality, but still, cant help but imagine which poor kid you might smack for pranking your humourless, uptight ass. Kids will be kids. Gnomes will be gnomes.Dude...You have no idea who you're talking to. And neither you nor the other person would have the audacity to say any of this to my face. So you're being punks basically, because you dish stuff out but you can't take it...and the aforementioned reason.

I'm sorry that not everyone in the world will go along with your pseudo-intellectualism. When you meet somebody with an actual brain, it drives you nuts because you aren't as smart as you think you are. Well, time to wake up. Being nerdy and being intelligent are two different things, unfortunately for you.

[Sabeta]

Dude...You have no idea who you're talking to. And neither you nor the other person would have the audacity to say any of this to my face. So you're being punks basically, because you dish stuff out but you can't take it...and the aforementioned reason.

I'm sorry that not everyone in the world will go along with your pseudo-intellectualism. When you meet somebody with an actual brain, it drives you nuts because you aren't as smart as you think you are. Well, time to wake up. Being nerdy and being intelligent are two different things, unfortunately for you.

Okay? Actually, are you sure? Normally, intelligent people don't make an effort to brandy about their so-called intelligence on the internet, because there's no reasonable or factual way to back that statement up. Then there's comments like " Also I don't have to justify my pvp actions. I did it. Whatcha gon' do about it mane???" where it sounds like your trying to start a physical brawl on the 'net. So I have to ask. What even justifies this claim? Making minimums on the Army ASVAB doesn't make you smart, and being a DV doesn't make you special.

[Jerrykhor]

This thread has turned into quite a bit of a little flame war over opinions. I'm kinda calling foul on the majority of comments here. OP was frustrated with reoccurring situations, maybe didn't explain himself properly, was a little bit crude, but everyone else are also getting quite obligerant with their comments. It's getting condescending in here at the least.

Perhaps people can just post things that irk them like the title says? Make it a place for venting and not attacking people's perspectives?

The way people are going at it at least, if op was frustrated, none of this is helping diffuse the situation and come with a resolution

Being pissed/frustrated does not mean you are right. Neither is being offended. OP is a special snowflake who chose to take offense at many things, things that the majority of us consider mostly not a big deal.

I don't see why we should not attack his 'perspective' of what D&D should be. He is clearly wrong, and there's no two ways about it. D&D is not set in Europe, or 15th century, or based on history. We've already calmly debated his points, but all he says is "IM VENTING!!!" And still thinks he's smart.

Since when is the forums a place for pointless, senseless venting?

[dejarnjc]

Since when is the forums a place for pointless, senseless venting?

Since forums first existed...

[Pr6i6e6st]

Being pissed/frustrated does not mean you are right. Neither is being offended. OP is a special snowflake who chose to take offense at many things, things that the majority of us consider mostly not a big deal.

I don't see why we should not attack his 'perspective' of what D&D should be. He is clearly wrong, and there's no two ways about it. D&D is not set in Europe, or 15th century, or based on history. We've already calmly debated his points, but all he says is "IM VENTING!!!" And still thinks he's smart.

Since when is the forums a place for pointless, senseless venting?

Not saying anyone is right. That's the problem. This wasn't about anyone really being right. It's about expectations and venting frustrations. Ok, you think op is childish, but it's even more childish to call them out, belittle them and add nothing constructive. Be the change you want to see in people, don't add to the chaos.

[Wolfsraine]

This smells like a troll. Either way I'd be more inclined to really dislike playing with the op based on his view of how the game should be played.

[KleineVampir]

Okay? Actually, are you sure? Normally, intelligent people don't make an effort to brandy about their so-called intelligence on the internet, because there's no reasonable or factual way to back that statement up. Then there's comments like " Also I don't have to justify my pvp actions. I did it. Whatcha gon' do about it mane???" where it sounds like your trying to start a physical brawl on the 'net. So I have to ask. What even justifies this claim? Making minimums on the Army ASVAB doesn't make you smart, and being a DV doesn't make you special.Actually I got a 97 on the ASVAB. I think that qualifies me as "smart." But...at least your insults have some finesse now. The minimum ASVAB for being in the army is pretty bad, let me tell you! Not being a DV doesn't make you special either. So what's your point? Was I arguing that I was special? Ok fine, I insinuated that you shouldn't be harassing me because of that. Jeez! Is there no respect in the world anymore? Is everybody just allotted the same amount of 0 respect no matter what? Excuse me, but I haven't lived my life like that. I've sacrificed a ton for at least everybody in the US. Then you get done and just get straight up disrespected. Feels bad man.

[CantigThimble]

If anyone in this thread was acting intelligently they would have left the flame war a page ago.

[Beelzebubba]

I don't buy into everyone here trying to rub the OP's face in it.

I can get where he is coming from.

The thing is, he's about 50% right and 50% wrong.

Nothing is ever clear-cut, and way too many people here are trying to paint this thing black and white, when it's really several people who are young and have, um, 'under-developed' social skills getting on each other's nerves.

I've played in a group with a character that constantly pranked others, and it's like those YouTube videos where a bro goes up to a black guy and says racist stuff until he gets punched then yells 'Dude! What's your problem, man! It's just a prank, bro!' as if that's cool. It's really really annoying. Especially when they can dish it out but can't take it.

But, the OP really takes himself and what he's done for everyone else and what people *should* be doing based on that investment in the game far too seriously. Dude, I'll let you in on a thing: in a group setting, 10% of the people do 90% of the work and almost never get 'respected' for it. You have to do that sort of thing knowing that other people being happy is the reward, and you will rarely get recognized for it.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like they're better friends with each other than they are with you, they want to play a different game, and you're better off leaving. Try to find a group that is more your speed. Good luck with that.

[Sabeta]

Actually I got a 97 on the ASVAB. I think that qualifies me as "smart." But...at least your insults have some finesse now. The minimum ASVAB for being in the army is pretty bad, let me tell you! Not being a DV doesn't make you special either. So what's your point? Was I arguing that I was special? Ok fine, I insinuated that you shouldn't be harassing me because of that. Jeez! Is there no respect in the world anymore? Is everybody just allotted the same amount of 0 respect no matter what? Excuse me, but I haven't lived my life like that. I've sacrificed a ton for at least everybody in the US. Then you get done and just get straight up disrespected. Feels bad man.

Maybe you have, maybe you haven't. Every single "DV" to be produced my shop figured out you could fake mysterious back problems that specialists can't solve and cash in on that 70% Medical Pay, and then go on to do hard labor such as construction the moment they get out.

I've seen it happen 5 times now, so no there is no inherent respect for being a Vet anymore. You present yourself on these forums as if, and if you can't take the heat you leave.

[NecroDancer]

Maybe the wizard was an Abjurationist which explains the high HP. Also the stats are crazy but I've seen it happen before.

[Finback]

Actually I addressed that in a previous post. I see you're resorting to pack tactics now, ganging up on me. I guess it takes more than one with me.

When a bunch of people from a range of backgrounds, who probably don't know each other, all inpendently call you on on the same thing, instead of assuming there's a grand conspiracy against you - consider maybe you're the problem?

If you don't like a doctor's opinion, sure, get a second. But if twenty doctors all tell you the same thing, they're not ganging up on you. Maybe you're actually wrong.

[Corran]

Ok, so I've missed a couple of pages, but here is a suggestion to you, OP.

If you want to realise a character concept, then it is better if you have buy in from the rest of the PCs.

For example, say I wanna play a character that has something intimidating about him, so that other people wouldnt play pranks on him because of how my character has something very imposing about his whole style. If I dont explain that to the other players, they may not get what I am aiming at, roleplaying-wise, and they might not roleplay accordingly to let my concept come to life easier.

It doesnt have to be sth as shallow and unoriginal as the concept I described above. It works for everything. Whenever you are thinking a trait for one of your characters, make sure to have buy in from the other PCs and from the DM. This way, what you are planning for will certainly play out nicely and you will all be in the same page.

What's done is done in your campaign, I merely suggested that so tat you have it in mind for the future.

[Arial Black]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kender_(Dragonlance)

Seriously, there's an entire race dedicated to playing pranks on the party.

Which is why the kender race is now extinct.

Every player is free to role-play their own PC. You can legitimately complain if another player is trying to prevent you from RPing your PC. But you cannot claim the right to RP your PC while simultaneously complaining about other players RPing their own PC in response!

My Dragonlance barbarian is from a culture whose main enemy is another tribe. They constantly try to steal each other's cattle and women (in that order), and as a proud people they cannot let an insult to their dignity go unpunished; the shame would be unbearable.

So, if you steal his stuff, he will kill you. He will warn you first if you're a friend who may not understand this because you are from a different culture, but if you get warned and go ahead and steal his stuff anyway, he will kill you.

That is role-playing.

The *cough**spit* kender, before their extermination by the other intelligent races of Krynn, were from a culture that took other people's stuff and didn't think anything of it. This is the culture clash that was the direct cause of their extermination.

The player of a kender PC can certainly claim to be RPing his character 'correctly' when he steals the barbarian's stuff. But the player of the barbarian is also RPing his character 'correctly' when he responds by killing the kender. The kender player cannot hide behind "I was only role-playing my character!" to defend his theft, and then complain that the other player is in the wrong for role-playing his character! The other player was 'only role-playing his character' too!

Each D&D table should decide before their first game whether or not PvP is allowed.

Pranks are PvP.

[Arial Black]

Attacking with a weapon is a crime, harmless pranks are not. You can try taking a knife and slash someone who called your mom a whore. You're going to jail, not him. Yes, even in the 15th century.

And yet, in every era (including the present day) if you insult the wrong person then you'll get assaulted and/or killed. If you go up to a mafia boss in front of all his other mafia boss mates (who are just waiting for him to show weakness so that they can move in on his territory) and play a 'prank' like painting his nose pink and then laughing in his face, as you sink toward the river bottom in your new cement shoes you may comfort yourself with the thought that at least you have the moral high ground.


A person who gets violent at insults is exactly what a thug/brute/gangster/lout is. Nobles don't try to attack a person for insulting him, they get him trialed and sentenced for prison. Or they get their henchmen to beat him up.

These days, nobles probably won't react like a mafia boss, drugs kingpin or North Korean/Russian dictator ("Don't drink the tea!"), but in the 15th century you bet your ass they'll have no compunction about killing a non-noble who publicly insults them! In many cases they had the legal right to do so, and in some cultures (like Samurai) they would be behaving improperly if they let you live!

It is entirely justifiable in role-playing terms to play a noble who would react to certain humiliating pranks by enacting a terrible, public revenge on the prankster, pour encourager les autre.

[Arkhios]

Each D&D table should decide before their first game whether or not PvP is allowed.

Pranks are PvP.

Word.

And before anyone cries out that "PvP involves violence or it's not PvP", here's a friendly reminder to you what the abbreviation means: Player versus Player. In it's core definition, PvP doesn't involve violence, it involves two (or more) Players doing something (often malevolent) between each other. Even seemingly harmless pranks between players is considered as PvP, because the setup is "Player [pranks] Player". You can easily change [pranks] with [attacks] or [steals from] or [insults] without invalidating the term "PvP".

Either PvP is okay, or it is not. There is no room for one player accepting it as "ok" and one player not accepting it as "ok". You have to have consensus about it.

[mgshamster]

I just need to vent about this one:

At the end of every AL module, you have the chance to get a magic item. The rules state that if two or more players want the magic item, then it goes to the PC with the fewest magic items. If there's a tie, it's determined randomly.

So I played one where we got a +1 Longbow. Of course, the archer wants the longbow. He doesn't have any magic items. No one thinks this is a bad idea at all.

Except one guy, who says, "You know, my back up javelins make for poor ranged weapons. I'd like the +1 Longbow, too." For a Dex 10 paladin.

Wtf, dude? You're playing a low Dex paladin. If you want a better ranged weapon, just go buy one. Don't take the magic longbow away from the guy who specifically built an Archer.