Bone creature as a cheap Lich?

[noce]

Let's say I'm an appropriately high level caster, that wants to become undead.

I know Lich is the way I am expected to follow.
If I want something cheap, there's Necropolitan, I know that too.

Question is: if I have Craft Contingent Spell, and I craft a contingent Create Undead on myself to turn my body into a Bone Creature, with "when I die" as a trigger, does this work?

Do I keep everything? Can I acquire experience and further advance in class levels? Is Bone Creature a 0 LA template?

PS: I know BoVD is 3.0, but my DM allows this book explicitly.

[frogglesmash]

This would work as far as I can tell. Since it's 3.0 material you'd have to get your DM to decide on the LA, though I seem to recall reading about a 3.5 update for BoVD.

[the_david]

That's a cool way to use contingency. I'd love to use that against my group... Is there a way to make this work in Pathfinder?

[Aldrakan]

That's a cool way to use contingency. I'd love to use that against my group... Is there a way to make this work in Pathfinder?

Bone creature isn't in PF, but Contingency+Create Undead-Juju zombie+ anything to boost your CL by one for Create Undead should do the trick. Skeletal champion adds 2 HD, so your caster level would need to be 3 higher.
Edit: Although you need a CL of 18 to Contingency Create Undead in PF

[Zanos]

This would work as far as I can tell. Since it's 3.0 material you'd have to get your DM to decide on the LA, though I seem to recall reading about a 3.5 update for BoVD.
Either the PHB or DMG says that creatures without a printed level adjustment aren't appropriate for player characters, which blacklists everything from 3.0 material that wasn't updated to have an LA.

So yeah, your DM would need to give it a level adjustment.

[Ashtagon]

I'm not sure it should work. It can't be triggered to happen immediately before you die, since you're not (yet) a corpse. After you're dead? That really depends on how your DM feels about spells being cast (albeit via a trigger) posthumously.

But rule of cool says yes.

Edit: Apparently, it should work. RAW says its existence and ability to function is independent of the creator still being alive or even existing at any physical or metaphysical level. As the target of the spell is either the "bearer" or the 5-foot square they are on, even that isn't a barrier. (It would be if the target was "creature", since for spell targeting purposes, a corpse is qualitatively different from a creature.)

[MHCD]

Just make sure to change the "half damage from piercing and slashing weapons" to DR 5/bludgeoning, and update the Weapon Finesse feat, and you should be set for making sure it's 3.5-worthy.

You really don't gain much over a necropolitan - I would probably put it at a low +2 LA, and even then, only because you don't lose a level like with necropolitan. Losing a level and gaining the template for +1 LA is probably fair.

[ATHATH]

Do note that your DM might decide to go with the OotS-style interpretation of intelligent undead- you might not retain control of your character, especially since Bone Creature has no LA.

[Inevitability]

I'd personally give Bone a +1 LA, perhaps +2 at low-op tables.


Do note that your DM might decide to go with the OotS-style interpretation of intelligent undead- you might not retain control of your character, especially since Bone Creature has no LA.

You do keep your alignment and mental ability scores, though. Are there any undead that keep both yet are explicitly independent of the previous creature?

[noce]

I know Bone Creature has little more than Necropolitan, but to become a Necropolitan you need the help of others, and the ritual could be interrupted resulting in a dead, wasted character.

If nothing else, at least this contingent spell trick could be used to avoid level loss upon death. Instead of losing a level, whenever you die you are instantly raised as an undead.

EDIT: for the same purpose, Last Breath and Revivify are good contingent candidates, obviously.

[Ashtagon]

Do note that your DM might decide to go with the OotS-style interpretation of intelligent undead- you might not retain control of your character, especially since Bone Creature has no LA.

BoVD (the most recent source for bone creature) specifically notes that the personality from life remains in charge in undeath.

[ShurikVch]

To OP: do you know about the Undeath After Death spell in Player's Guide to Faerûn?
It works exactly like "contingent Create Undead", gives you Crypt Spawn template (LA +2, Magic of Faerûn), and just one level higher than regular Create Undead.

[Lazymancer]

Question is: if I have Craft Contingent Spell, and I craft a contingent Create Undead on myself to turn my body into a Bone Creature, with "when I die" as a trigger, does this work?
The idea works, but I'd rule only 50/50 chance of trigger working (wording is bad). There is no proper instance when the spell should trigger. You are either alive or you are dead. Moment of your death is an abstraction that could be determined only when you are already dead and it had passed. Arguably, spell could trigger when you are dying (-1/-9), but that would make it useless, since you are still alive.

Trigger should be "when I'm dead". Or "after I die".



That's a cool way to use contingency. I'd love to use that against my group... Is there a way to make this work in Pathfinder?
I don't know about Pathfinder, but if you want to be nasty, take a look at Oath of Blood spell (HoH). Coupled with Destructive Retribution (Corpsecrafter feat) it can make things ... interesting.

Also could be used as even cheaper version of "Lich", but it requires some good wording and is dispellable (works only as long as geas are in effect). Good enough for emergencies, though.

[noce]

To OP: do you know about the Undeath After Death spell in Player's Guide to Faerûn?
It works exactly like "contingent Create Undead", gives you Crypt Spawn template (LA +2, Magic of Faerûn), and just one level higher than regular Create Undead.

No I didn't know that spell, thank you. :)


The idea works, but I'd rule only 50/50 chance of trigger working (wording is bad). There is no proper instance when the spell should trigger. You are either alive or you are dead. Moment of your death is an abstraction that could be determined only when you are already dead and it had passed. Arguably, spell could trigger when you are dying (-1/-9), but that would make it useless, since you are still alive.

Trigger should be "when I'm dead". Or "after I die".

Well, I'm not an English native speaker, and I wasn't trying to check the wording but rather the idea.
But, anyway, thank you.