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View Full Version : A quest to break the game! (Abusing the UA Grave Domain CD)



The Ship's dog
2017-04-23, 10:22 PM
So recently I made a thread outlining a combo build that abused the UA Class options "Circle of Twilight" for Druids and "Grave Domain" for Clerics. User Pichu got me thinking about more ways of abusing the Channel Divinity

Channel Divinity: Path to the Grave
Starting at 2nd level, you can use your Channel
Divinity to mark another creature’s life force for
termination.
As an action, you touch a creature. The next
time that creature takes damage from a spell or
an attack from you or an ally, it is vulnerable to
that spell or attack’s damage. If the source of
damage has multiple damage types, the creature
is vulnerable to all of them. The vulnerability
applies only to the first time that source inflicts
damage, and then ends.
If the creature has resistance or is immune to
the damage, it instead loses its resistance or
immunity against that spell or attack when it
first applies damage.

That is the point of this thread, to find all of the different ways of abusing this Channel Divinity.

So first, I need to lay down some rules of the thread:
1. Be civil to each other (duh)
2. We will only discuss one idea at a time
3. Don't suggest things that have already been discussed
4. When saying a combo, please at least outline all of the important stuff for damage calculations and levels of classes
5. Use a maximum of 2 (1 at a maximum of level 20 and 1 at a maximum of level 5) characters when saying combos, preferably 1 at a maximum level of 20.

P.S. As a side note, if you would like to do all of the calculations for damage and stuff then that would be great, if not then just ask and I'll do it.



So the plan is we go in with a Sanctuary to deflect blows, or throw a Hold Person, Command or any other spell that stops a target from attacking, out onto the target you want and then unload a really high damage AoE spell onto them and any allies they are around. Similarly you could use a single target damage spell instead. Simple concept, now let's break it with just a Druid/Cleric.

Race: Protector Aasimar
Why?, because of this ability:

Radiant Soul.
Starting at 3rd level, you can use your action to unleash the divine energy within yourself, causing your eyes to glimmer and two luminous, incorporeal wings to sprout from your back.
Your transformation lasts for 1 minute or until you end it as a bonus action. During it, you have a flying speed of 30 feet, and once on each of your turns, you can deal extra radiant damage to one target when you deal damage to it with an attack or a spell. The extra radiant damage equals your level.
Once you use this trait, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.

We want this mostly because of the part that I have underlined. This can be achieved by Scourge Aasimar as well, but Protectors gain a bonus to Wisdom, which is what we want for our spellcasting. Also, flying is better for this as we want more mobility.

Harvest’s Scythe
Starting at 2nd level, you learn to unravel and harvest the life energy of other creatures. You can augment your spells to drain the life force from creatures. You have a pool of energy represented by a number of d10s equal to your druid level.
When you roll damage for a spell, you can increase that damage by spending dice from the pool. You can spend a number of dice equal to half your druid level or less. Roll the spent dice and add them to the damage as necrotic damage. If you kill one or more hostile creatures with a spell augmented in this way, you or an ally of your choice that you can see within 30 feet of you regains 2 hit points per die spent to increase the spell’s damage, or 5 hit points per die if at least one of the slain creatures was undead.
You regain the expended dice when you finish a long rest.

The starting ability scores pre racial:
Str:14
Dex:10
Con:15
Int:10
Wis:15
Cha:8

Post racial
Str:14
Dex:10
Con:15
Int:10
Wis:16
Cha:10

ASIs going 2 into Wis, one into Str/Con and one into Con

End scores
Str:15
Dex:10
Con:18
Int:10
Wis:20
Cha:10

Strength ASI is for Heavy Armour prerequisite because losing 10 feet of movement is not fun at all.


First you activate either Sanctuary and run in or pull off a great Entangle and use Radiant Soul for the fly speed. Then go in and (if you didn't use your action) mark the enemy you want to deal the most damage to. If you have enough movement still then you can run and trust in your high AC to protect you.

Next turn you can either run and AOE, or single target spell the person you have marked. If you haven't already activated Radiant Soul, do this now.

Then you unload your highest damage spell onto the target, making sure not to be near them if you are using an AOE and use as many Harvest Energy dice as you like, also buff up the damage with Radiant Soul.


For this I am going to assume that all of the set up has been done and we are casting Sunburst for the sake of awesomeness.
So, here we go:

Sunburst base damage = 12d6
Average damage = 12x3.5
=42 Radiant damage on failed save

Radiant Soul damage = 20

Harvest's Scythe damage = 9d10
Average damage = 9x5.5
=48 Necrotic damage

Total average damage before vulnerability = 62 Radiant damage, 48 Necrotic damage and half on a successful save. 110 total average damage (55 on a successful save) on all targets.

After vulnerability that goes up to 220 average damage on a single target within that AOE.



So without further adieu, let's discuss Pichu's idea!

>Read first two spoilers
>*Smile slowly creeps across face*
>*Starts maniacal laugh*
>Immediately tries to optimize more

(+1 Wis Race): 14/10/12/16/8/13
Cleric (Grave Domain) 3/Sorcerer 3

Prep Round
A: Channel Divinity: Path to the Grave
BA: Quickened Hold Person

Damage Round
A: Inflict Wounds
BA: Spiritual Weapon

Total: 4x(3d10)+1d8+Wis (3) = 73.5

EDIT: Think of Assassinate + Death's Strike + Path to the Grave ... Yummy ... 8x damage

8wGremlin
2017-04-24, 02:25 AM
I noted that it say that The next time that creature takes damage from a spell or an attack from you or an ally so that is the first hit in a volley of hits, not for each and every hit like hex, or hunter's mark. Is that right?

The Ship's dog
2017-04-24, 05:10 AM
I noted that it say that The next time that creature takes damage from a spell or an attack from you or an ally so that is the first hit in a volley of hits, not for each and every hit like hex, or hunter's mark. Is that right?

Yeah, unfortunately only for the first hit, which is why my build focuses around doing as much damage in a single action.

jaappleton
2017-04-24, 05:52 AM
The thing with Grave's CD is that it functions very poorly in a single person setup. As part of a team effort? Its astounding.

You're already using Grave, which is UA. Let's assume some other UA, alright?

-Half Orc Hexblade with Cursebringer's Greatsword (Why Half Orc? A little extra bonus on crits)
-Anyone with Hold Monster / Hold Person (depending on what you're fighting)

Hexblade's smite-style abilities do more than Paladins. I'm not going to argue which is more viable throughout an adventuring day, because its irrelevant here.

EDIT: Since both the Greatsword and Cursebringer's ability all do Slashing, I'd argue that the entirety of the damage doubles, since its one attack. So, at level 5, 18 Strength...

((2d6 + 1d6 +6d8)*2)*2)+4.

Now, I failed Math. I'll be honest. So I likely formatted that incorrectly.

But that should be an average of 147 damage at lv5, I think.

The Ship's dog
2017-04-24, 06:26 AM
The thing with Grave's CD is that it functions very poorly in a single person setup. As part of a team effort? Its astounding.

You're already using Grave, which is UA. Let's assume some other UA, alright?

-Half Orc Hexblade with Cursebringer's Greatsword (Why Half Orc? A little extra bonus on crits)
-Anyone with Hold Monster / Hold Person (depending on what you're fighting)

Hexblade's smite-style abilities do more than Paladins. I'm not going to argue which is more viable throughout an adventuring day, because its irrelevant here.

EDIT: Since both the Greatsword and Cursebringer's ability all do Slashing, I'd argue that the entirety of the damage doubles, since its one attack. So, at level 5, 18 Strength...

((2d6 + 1d6 +6d8)*2)*2)+4.

Now, I failed Math. I'll be honest. So I likely formatted that incorrectly.

But that should be an average of 147 damage at lv5, I think.

3 things:
1. Your math is a little off. Since the modifier damage is doubled as well from vulnerability, it should look like this
(((2d6+1d6+6d8)*2)+4)*2
The first *2 is the critical doubling the dice and the second *2 is the vulnerability.

2. It doesn't matter what damage types are used, just as long as it is all in a single attack. For example, the Hexblade smite-like abilities add damage to the attack, rather than being an extra attack on top of it. This is also true for things like Hex or Hunter's Mark, it isn't a separate instance of damage, it adds bonus damage onto an attack. The CD makes the target vulnerable to all damage types that are used in the next attack.

And finally
3. Why stop at level five? This whole thread is to try and abuse this thing as much as possible, so seriously use the highest level things you can think of!

jaappleton
2017-04-24, 06:42 AM
3 things:
1. Your math is a little off. Since the modifier damage is doubled as well from vulnerability, it should look like this
(((2d6+1d6+6d8)*2)+4)*2
The first *2 is the critical doubling the dice and the second *2 is the vulnerability.

2. It doesn't matter what damage types are used, just as long as it is all in a single attack. For example, the Hexblade smite-like abilities add damage to the attack, rather than being an extra attack on top of it. This is also true for things like Hex or Hunter's Mark, it isn't a separate instance of damage, it adds bonus damage onto an attack. The CD makes the target vulnerable to all damage types that are used in the next attack.

And finally
3. Why stop at level five? This whole thread is to try and abuse this thing as much as possible, so seriously use the highest level things you can think of!

Emphasis mine.

Like I said, math wasn't my strong suit. I stopped at level 5 because... Well, its early in the morning and I didn't want to bust out a sheet of paper. :smalltongue:

But the basis is strong, I think. Somehow get a Crit, and Warlock Smite away. I think thats the simplest damage dealing setup available, while being quite powerful. So much so that... I mean...

Wait. There's no saving throw for Grave's ability, it just happens so long as you can touch the creature. So if you touch the BBEG... Its vulnerable. No saving throw. It just gets smacked, hard.

That's a nightmare for DMs, for what we're doing here.

The Ship's dog
2017-04-24, 05:01 PM
[/B]

Emphasis mine.

Like I said, math wasn't my strong suit. I stopped at level 5 because... Well, its early in the morning and I didn't want to bust out a sheet of paper. :smalltongue:

But the basis is strong, I think. Somehow get a Crit, and Warlock Smite away. I think thats the simplest damage dealing setup available, while being quite powerful. So much so that... I mean...

Wait. There's no saving throw for Grave's ability, it just happens so long as you can touch the creature. So if you touch the BBEG... Its vulnerable. No saving throw. It just gets smacked, hard.

That's a nightmare for DMs, for what we're doing here.

Wait wait wait, my math was a little off! Well damn, it really should be this:
(((2d6+6d8)*2)+4+1d6)*2
Because the extra 1d6 from the Half-Orc ability isn't doubled by the crit. It's funny because it was late at night where I live when I wrote that.

Oh the basis is definitely strong, probably a lot stronger than my build in the end simply because I can't crit with Sunburst (although I could use Inflict Wounds actually, that could crit!).

Yes, there is no saving throw or anything, it isn't even an attack so RAW it doesn't break Sanctuary. The name of the thread is 'A quest to break the game!' And that's exactly what we are trying to do.


So for the Warlock, assuming 20 Str and level 20 (although this can also just be done with a level 10) the math is:
(((2d6+10d8)*2)+5+1d6)*2
=(((7+45)*2)+5+3.5)*2
=(((104)*2)+8)*2 the 8 is 8.5 rounded down
=((104)+8)*2
=112*2
=224
If you were using an Aasimar instead (any type would do) then the damage would go up to
((104)+25)*2
=129*2
=258 damage, 40 Radiant, 218 Slashing
Then using your other attack (and smiting) it would be:
((2d6+10d8)*2)+5+1d6
=((7+45)*2)+5+3.5
=((52)*2)+8 or 8.5 rounded down
=104+8
=112
If a Half-Orc the total average damage from both attacks is 336 Slashing damage

If an Aasimar the second attack is:
((52)*2)+5
=104+5
=109
So total damage from both attacks if an Aasimar = 367 damage, 40 Radiant, 327 Slashing.



So I'm not sure if the Harvest's Scythe damage would be double with a crit (pretty sure it would be) so I'll just do calculations factoring either outcome in. Math so that Harvest's Scythe is not doubled is:
(((11d10)*2)+20+9d10)*2
=((60*2)+20+49)*2 the 60 and 49 are 60.5 and 49.5 rounded down respectively
=(120+20+49)*2
=189*2
=378 total average damage on a single target, 40 Radiant, 338 Necrotic.

Math that makes Harvest's Scythe damage doubled is:
(((11d10+9d10)*2)+20)*2
=(((60.5+49.5)*2)+20)*2
=(((110)*2)+20)*2
=(220+20)*2
=240*2
Which equals a grand total of
480 average damage on a single target!
40 Radiant, 440 Necrotic.