Feral without the HD bonus - Is it worth it?

[SangoProduction]

So the feral template gives some relatively solid natural benefits, namely 2 claws, +10 speed and +6 nat armor. It also provides some rather nice scaling bonuses. If those scaling bonuses are removed, is it still worthwhile to take at +1 LA? I mean, it kinda seems worthwhile.

[Telonius]

On a melee type, it looks good to me. I could see this being pretty wicked on something like a Totemist.

[Morphic tide]

Two Natural Attacks, +6 bonus to AC and a move speed bonus? For just LA +1? It's more useful than a level of Monk, Barbarian, Paladin or Fighter in most cases, so yes, it is worth +1 LA.

[Fouredged Sword]

Can you buy off the LA and eat the stat penalties? If so, this is absolutely worth it.

Can you not buy off the LA? Well, maybe, on a dedicated melee build with no casting.

[Rebel7284]

The usual problem with level adjustment is that the bonuses don't scale while class level usually give more and more powerful abilities. If used as written (especially if both ability tracks are allowed), feral actually is worth the +1 LA as it keeps getting better as you level. Without the bonuses, it will get less and less useful so could only be recommended for lower level games or with buyoff.

[Telonius]

The usual problem with level adjustment is that the bonuses don't scale while class level usually give more and more powerful abilities. If used as written (especially if both ability tracks are allowed), feral actually is worth the +1 LA as it keeps getting better as you level. Without the bonuses, it will get less and less useful so could only be recommended for lower level games or with buyoff.

I'd disagree, depending on the base creature. If you don't already have a claw attack, then gaining one is a bonus that does scale with level, whenever you hit with Power Attack. It can also free up chakra binds (if you're using Incarnum) for gaining other natural weapons.

[Inevitability]

Don't forget the +4 strength, +2 constitution, and +2 wisdom it gives. The dexterity and intelligence penalties sting a bit, but it's still a net gain.

Feral would definitely be worth +1 LA without the scaling bonuses. In fact, it's my default adjustment to balance it a bit.

[SangoProduction]

Don't forget the +4 strength, +2 constitution, and +2 wisdom it gives. The dexterity and intelligence penalties sting a bit, but it's still a net gain.

Feral would definitely be worth +1 LA without the scaling bonuses. In fact, it's my default adjustment to balance it a bit.

where are people getting these attribute modifiers from? It doesn't appear in Savage Species. Is there another place this template is from?

[PersonMan]

where are people getting these attribute modifiers from? It doesn't appear in Savage Species. Is there another place this template is from?

I just checked, and they appear in my copy. Are you sure you're reading to the bottom of the template?

[RedWarlock]

where are people getting these attribute modifiers from? It doesn't appear in Savage Species. Is there another place this template is from?
No, it is there, they're just listed towards the end, after the special qualities section. It's in MM block format, which has abilities towards the end.

[SangoProduction]

No, it is there, they're just listed towards the end, after the special qualities section. It's in MM block format, which has abilities towards the end.

Ah OK. Ty. That's a really tiny spot to put it in, and the non-book references don't mention it. That's appreciated.

[ATHATH]

I thought that the scaling bonuses were only for Racial HD...

[RedWarlock]

I thought that the scaling bonuses were only for Racial HD...

It's SS, 3.4e-ish, so the terminology isn't super-clear. Racial HD-only is the common interpretation (I go with it) but some interpret it to say any class HD counts.