RAW way to jail someone?

[BeefGood]

A while ago there were some threads about whether spellcasting could be nullified by physical means, say by immobilizing the caster's hands. After contributing to and reading those threads, my opinion now is that there's no provision in the RAW for doing this. (other than dropping the caster to zero hit points, of course.)
Over the weekend I ran into a different variant of this general question, which is: how do you lock a creature into a jail cell? I think there's a RAW to do this, but I would like others' opinions because it seems like it could get silly.
Step 1: Jailer #1 successfully grapples the creature.
Step 2: Jailer #1 drags the creature into the cell.
Step 3: Jailer #1 releases the grapple (no action required) and moves out of cell.
Step 4: Jailer #2 locks the cell door.
I say that I think it might get silly because it depends on Jailer #2 preceding the jailed creature in initiative. If the jailed creature is ahead (in initiative) of Jailer #2, then the jailed creature can run out of the cell before Jailer #2 can lock the door. It might take several attempts to get the creature locked into the cell.
Thoughts appreciated.

[Tanarii]

A while ago there were some threads about whether spellcasting could be nullified by physical means, say by immobilizing the caster's hands. After contributing to and reading those threads, my opinion now is that there's no provision in the RAW for doing this.Sure there is, you must have a free hand to cast S component and M component spells. If you have your hands immobilized, you can't do that.

Now if you mean there's no RAW rules for one person to immobilize (or otherwise make 'not free') a casters hands, no, there isn't one built manuever explicitly in the system. The DM will have to rule on what's necessary for that to happen ... action type, attack roll or ability check or save necessary, DC for the latter two, etc. Or if it can just be done automatically without any kind of check. (<-- Edit: I'm thinking here of a knocked out / sleeping caster.) That's all within a DM's discretion to do. But once the DM has determined the resolution and applied it, 'can't cast S or M component spells' is an outcome of it.


Over the weekend I ran into a different variant of this general question, which is: how do you lock a creature into a jail cell?I'd think that like the caster scenario, the jailers knocking a resisting prisoner out is the most likely scenario. (ie as you noted, reducing them to 0 hps)

[Slipperychicken]

In jailing, detainees usually stop actively struggling at some point and comply. Otherwise the officers would beat the detainee until it stops struggling. That point may well be unconsciousness, which tends to make it pretty easy to put in jail.

I go with the interpretation that binding and fully gagging a creature is enough to stop most magic. That can be accomplished with some twine and a rag.

[lperkins2]

Anything causing the incapacitated condition works. Petrification comes to mind, but there are other ways to do it. Antimagic field solves the caster issue (for a while). Silence + cutting off their hands removes almost all spells (anyone got a list of no-component spells?), so does polymorph. Unless they are proficient in heavy armor, you put them in heavy armor and they can't cast anything (even just verbal spells, wearing armour or shields when not proficient is too distracting). Plus they mule the armor for you if you need to travel.

Of course, getting them into the armor can be difficult, as can dealing with their new AC while wearing it.

[JNAProductions]

Yeah, no way to do it by RAW. You can add something in, but make sure it's consistent and not overly punishing to casters-your own or the players'.

[Asmotherion]

Wile there is not one per-say, grapling uses hands, and any sane DM will at the very least rule disadvantage. Then, a creature should at least be able to specify that he wants to grapple the caster's arms, thus they would not be "free".

What is particularly disturbing is how you can't really graple most casters. Most don't want to be in melee, and will have misty step ready for that particular reason. Even if they don't, most Arcane casters have access to Shield, and grapling is an attack action... this means that, if the Caster has a particularly invested AC (which is not unusual for casters either, thanks to Mage Armor, and their usual SADness making it easy and optimal to invest heavyly in Dex), you are targeting an AC of 25+ (some casters might have AC specific builds, investing in using an actual Shield too, as well as taking Magic Initiate for Shield of Faith. Others might even Dip Fighter for Heavy Armor, thus you're looking at an AC of 29).

To complicate things even more, even if you manage to jail them, what prevents them from escaping? They have access to teleport spells (both short range and long range ones), enchantments to controll their Jailers, Illusions to play with the Jailer's minds in other ways, Divinations to find a way out, and even evocations to steal the keys, or even directly threaten the jailers of fireballing the whole building should they not let them out. You basically have jailed someone with a permanent, virtually omnipotent weapon grafted in them.

The safest way is chaining them, gauging them and then putting them in a windowless room with only one door. But then, there are still sorcerers who can bypass those restrictions, and a Sorcerer won't just identify himself to his jailer, instead just saying "I'm a mage" or "I'm a wizard", should he talk at all. So, basically, the only safe way is to have other, high level spellcasters cast Anti-Magic Field and guard the cell, or like, be in constant vigilance and be ready to counterspell any atempt to cast a spell. But this goes beyond the "Jailing a spellcaster with no magic" theme of the spell, so the short answear is that wile, yes, there are counter measures to prevent a caster from freeing himself, nothing is guaranteed if you're not a spellcaster yourself.

[JNAProductions]

Um... AC is never involved in grappling. It's an opposed skill check.

[Tanarii]

I feel like the OP made a mistake mentioning casters, since the question he was actually asking for this thread had nothing to do with them. :smallamused:

[BeefGood]

I feel like the OP made a mistake mentioning casters, since the question he was actually asking for this thread had nothing to do with them. :smallamused:

The OP agrees.

[Sigreid]

Arests would work just like in real life. You go quietly or they beat you into submission. Threaten their lives and they will kill you if they have to or can.

[IShouldntBehere]

Decapitate the spell-caster, burn the body, mix the ashes in with cement. Use said cement to make some vague likeness of the caster, throw said likeness in jail cell.

In all seriousness though in any universe where shutting down spell castings is harder than trivial nobody would bother trying to capture or imprison one, it'd be foolish. Asking "How do you do it by RAW" is the wrong question. The only question to ask "Is doing so straightforward and easy?" if yes, then do that, if no all hostile casters are killed ASAP in any conflict they're part of.

That you have to go to the lengths to try and ask about the RAW shows that the answer to the question is "No", and therefore the exact mechanics of capture are unimportant. Any universe where one that requires a RAW-level of understanding to keep a caster contained is one in which nobody dare attempt it.

[lperkins2]

I feel like the OP made a mistake mentioning casters, since the question he was actually asking for this thread had nothing to do with them. :smallamused:

I mentioned the options for preventing spellcasting, since you cannot arrest someone successfully without stopping spellcasting (dimension door, acid splash, et cetera).

Assuming they can't cast spells (antimagic, or just not a spellcaster), sentinel seems to be the best way to arrest someone, especially combined with thunderous smite. They approach you, you smite them back into their cell, landing them prone and with 0 movement, inside the edge of an antimagic field. This gives you time to close the door and lock it. A friend with grappler to line them up and restrain you for knocking them into the cell might be useful, plus someone to give them temp hp if they are a commoner and won't survive the smite.

Edit: warcaster not needed, since smite can be cast in advance

[Battlebooze]

In one of the campaigns I'm playing in, we ran into this kind of problem, though no spell caster was involved. My Rogue/Barbarian got cursed with the hunger for human flesh in a lost temple to a dark god. This was on an island and our cleric died, so no fix was easily available. They had to keep my character close to zero for the whole two day trip back by ship.

They really couldn't just tie him up, he's a grapple build so he breaks the regular shackles and chains we had half the time even if he's not raging!

He got his curse fixed, but it was pretty hilarious.

[Battlebooze]

For a prisoner who is a caster, covering their eyes so they can't see, along with restraining their fingers and hands shouldn't be very difficult if they are unconscious or cooperating.

Gagging someone crudely is pretty rough. Realistically, there's a good chance they might suffocate accidentally if this is done for very long. It's reasonable for anyone, even someone who wants to cooperate, to try to get a gag out of their mouth.

Long term prison...

:( Cut their tongue out and fingers off, then blind them.

[Sigreid]

It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume a wealthier kingdom would have something like a collar of silence that could be locked on a caster or specially enchanted cells.

[Biggstick]

Anything causing the incapacitated condition works. Petrification comes to mind, but there are other ways to do it. Antimagic field solves the caster issue (for a while). Silence + cutting off their hands removes almost all spells (anyone got a list of no-component spells?), so does polymorph. Unless they are proficient in heavy armor, you put them in heavy armor and they can't cast anything (even just verbal spells, wearing armour or shields when not proficient is too distracting). Plus they mule the armor for you if you need to travel.

Of course, getting them into the armor can be difficult, as can dealing with their new AC while wearing it.

This thought hadn't occurred to me at all and it would work with a good majority of casters!

I'd also add on to tie their hands up as well as blindfold/cover their head. This would be easy enough for most jails imo, as the armor doesn't have to be particularly well made, just function for the purpose of heavy armor.

Sure there are corner cases where the caster can cast spells in heavy armor (Clerics and multiclassed casters), but how many Clerics are getting locked up and placed in a jail cell? How many corner cases come along where a caster is capable of wearing heavy armor?


What is particularly disturbing is how you can't really graple most casters. Most don't want to be in melee, and will have misty step ready for that particular reason. Even if they don't, most Arcane casters have access to Shield, and grapling is an attack action... this means that, if the Caster has a particularly invested AC (which is not unusual for casters either, thanks to Mage Armor, and their usual SADness making it easy and optimal to invest heavyly in Dex), you are targeting an AC of 25+ (some casters might have AC specific builds, investing in using an actual Shield too, as well as taking Magic Initiate for Shield of Faith. Others might even Dip Fighter for Heavy Armor, thus you're looking at an AC of 29).

Having a high AC does nothing for grappling. To grapple someone requires an Athletics check from the grappler and an opposed Athletics or Acrobatics check from the grapplee (the caster). The ability to have 29 AC as a caster, or whatever number you can possibly pump it up to, does nothing to help with rolling a higher Acrobatics or Athletics check.

[lperkins2]

This thought hadn't occurred to me at all and it would work with a good majority of casters!

I'd also add on to tie their hands up as well as blindfold/cover their head. This would be easy enough for most jails imo, as the armor doesn't have to be particularly well made, just function for the purpose of heavy armor.


It's actually better if the armor is bad, since it doesn't give the prisoner an AC bonus. Plate armor hit by a rust monster till it grants AC 11 sounds pretty good. Unless their dex was less than 12, it won't help their AC, and gives disadvantage on basically everything. Might just be standard practice to do to every prisoner, since worst case it does nothing. You do have to keep an eye on them, since it takes 5 minutes to doff heavy armor, so they might try to get out of it.

I couldn't find anything RAW that counts as heavy armor but isn't 'armor' (something like bracers or what not), but a cursed shield might work too.



Sure there are corner cases where the caster can cast spells in heavy armor (Clerics and multiclassed casters), but how many Clerics are getting locked up and placed in a jail cell? How many corner cases come along where a caster is capable of wearing heavy armor?


Evil clerics are pretty common in lots of settings; they have so many options for how to be bad. The question is how many of them would you even consider taking prisoner?

Hm, other ways to arrest someone... Dominate, Hold Person, Polymorph

[solidork]

Cant you just have the second guard ready an action to close the cell once the first guard is out of it? Also, unless the door is bigger than 5ft, they won't be able to move through the square of the guard standing directly in front of the door locking it.

The most elegant and foolproof way of imprisoning someone in a fixed location that I've come up with was in M:tAW where you just punt them far enough into the future that you have time to investigate/arrange a trial/whatever. A third party could dispel the magic to get them out early, but for the person on the inside, they literally cannot possibly do anything.

[Biggstick]

Evil clerics are pretty common in lots of settings; they have so many options for how to be bad. The question is how many of them would you even consider taking prisoner?

Hm, other ways to arrest someone... Dominate, Hold Person, Polymorph

Those are some pretty high level spells. I wouldn't guess your average community has someone capable of casting those spells to contain a spell caster.

Yeah, you're right on that I guess about evil Clerics being somewhat common in lots of settings. I'm just looking at what would be most practical for the majority of your spellcaster jailing situations. If you were running a jail in most D&D settings, you could finance some terribly made armor from the local smith. Not that it doesn't work, but that it doesn't offer much protection. Have the smith put something identifying on this armor so that people know its a prisoner's armor. Utilizing some blindfolds or bags to prevent the casters vision, and restrain their hands (rope to tie them up) to prevent somatic movements. Being blinded and having their hands restrained would probably be enough to prevent the spell caster from being able to remove the armor from their person, as they're probably unfamiliar with what needs to be unbuckled or unstrapped to get out of said armor. Most towns would be capable of having these sorts of things, and they would be capable of jailing most spell casters.

For those cases of jailing an evil Cleric, let the local Clergy deal with that one imo. And if there aren't any local Clergy, bring said evil Cleric to the next biggest town. ^_^

[Sigreid]

Prisons in the middle of nowhere would also work for most casters and others. The old fine, break out. Now what?

[Mellack]

A while ago there were some threads about whether spellcasting could be nullified by physical means, say by immobilizing the caster's hands. After contributing to and reading those threads, my opinion now is that there's no provision in the RAW for doing this. (other than dropping the caster to zero hit points, of course.)
Over the weekend I ran into a different variant of this general question, which is: how do you lock a creature into a jail cell? I think there's a RAW to do this, but I would like others' opinions because it seems like it could get silly.
Step 1: Jailer #1 successfully grapples the creature.
Step 2: Jailer #1 drags the creature into the cell.
Step 3: Jailer #1 releases the grapple (no action required) and moves out of cell.
Step 4: Jailer #2 locks the cell door.
I say that I think it might get silly because it depends on Jailer #2 preceding the jailed creature in initiative. If the jailed creature is ahead (in initiative) of Jailer #2, then the jailed creature can run out of the cell before Jailer #2 can lock the door. It might take several attempts to get the creature locked into the cell.
Thoughts appreciated.


Jailer #2 just needs to ready his action to close the door when #1 moves out of the room. No worry of initiative that way. Even better if you have #3 using help action to give #1 advantage for the first part.

[Zorku]

Ignoring casters (as per the desire of OP,) you can't really physically detain characters indefinitely anyway. Any kind of binding is subject to str checks to break free, and as per the DMG you automatically succeed on a check if you take 10x the normal time to perform it. If your bars can be bend on a particularly good roll then they can be bent slowly over time as well. If they wish to dig for long enough then they will have a tunnel, or if they intimidate and persuade for long enough they will have a riot and prison break. It's hard enough to keep real world humans imprisoned if they really don't want to cooperate, but this system isn't really designed to take away agency for very long, and lacks the sort of morale stat that beating a prisoner unconscious would act upon, so if you want a PC in jail for their full sentence, then you actually have to convince the PC to roleplay that.

Now, if you want something that's fairly broad application, what you do is poison the prisoner. This fantasy poison doesn't do anything until you're no longer being dosed with it (either inhalation or consumption, with whatever delay sounds most appropriate to you. Basically, if you have an open prison yard, and the runners always fall down and start into a coughing fit about halfway to the outer fence, and importantly, every prisoner and most of the guards only understand that this thing happens when people get about that far away. And then your guards, who have immunity because... reasons, go out there and drag the idiot back.) There are still ways of escaping the place, but most of the ones that totally bypass the nature of the prison involve being dead for at least a little while, so only the most heist movie inspired players will try anything like that. The rest will basically figure out what's going on and try to get to the warden and force them to hand over the antidote, but that's a whole roleplay thing where the DM has lots of power to drag it out.

This does not work very well for a simple dungeon or cage, but you can probably adapt it somehow.

For the short term cage problem: If you're fine with magical means, then stuffing somebody into a sack similar to a bag of holding, but it's one-way into an extra-dimensional space they can breathe in, is gonna be your best bet. You probably want to make that situation more complex than that, so that if somebody gets the sack they can free their friend somehow, or for whatever character agency concerns, but that's the basic concept you need, and even that stops working on wizards above a certain level.

[Slipperychicken]

Gagging someone crudely is pretty rough. Realistically, there's a good chance they might suffocate accidentally if this is done for very long. It's reasonable for anyone, even someone who wants to cooperate, to try to get a gag out of their mouth.

I imagine that full gagging could be reserved for magical detainees considered to be high-risk. Or for when the guards are having a bad day. Either one works.

Maybe they'd make a special head-clamp that forces the mouth closed enough to prevent verbal components. Then either give the guy mashed/liquid food, or small enough food bits that he can plausibly chew without opening wide enough to make verbal components.

[lperkins2]

For those cases of jailing an evil Cleric, let the local Clergy deal with that one imo. And if there aren't any local Clergy, bring said evil Cleric to the next biggest town. ^_^

Depending on domain, clerics don't get heavy armor in 5e anyway... Only up to medium and shields.

[IShouldntBehere]

Ignoring casters (as per the desire of OP,) you can't really physically detain characters indefinitely anyway. Any kind of binding is subject to str checks to break free, and as per the DMG you automatically succeed on a check if you take 10x the normal time to perform it. If your bars can be bend on a particularly good roll then they can be bent slowly over time as well. If they wish to dig for long enough then they will have a tunnel, or if they intimidate and persuade for long enough they will have a riot and prison break. It's hard enough to keep real world humans imprisoned if they really don't want to cooperate, but this system isn't really designed to take away agency for very long, and lacks the sort of morale stat that beating a prisoner unconscious would act upon, so if you want a PC in jail for their full sentence, then you actually have to convince the PC to roleplay that.



We build prisons because they hold people. Escapes are the exception rather than the rule and not simply because we're incapable of building a box a person can't easily get out of but bully them into just staying put. A world where prisons don't work is a world where they don't build prisons and don't take prisoners. We must accept 1 of two wholly mutually exclusive things:

1) We accept that the system wasn't designed for prisoners & prisoners and therefore the RAW doesn't & shouldn't apply to the situation.
2) We accept the RAW as-is, meaning D&D universe is one where one can't reliably hold someone against their will for a handful of minutes. This is a universe where nobody would build prisons and nobody would take prisoners.

If one insists upon running in a RAW-adhering world as described here the issue of prisoners is is a non-issue. All altercations that might otherwise end in imprisonment must end in the swiftest most absolute death possible, as it's the only sensible thing for the inhabitants of that world to do. The world described simply cannot the luxury of any measure of mercy for even the shortest periods.

EDIT: I suppose if you wanted to get grisly, amputations could serve in place of prisons. However beyond the fact that's probably simply a more brutal death sentence in most applications, it has other practical concerns as well. I can't see it being a popular alternative.

[Knaight]

In jailing, detainees usually stop actively struggling at some point and comply. Otherwise the officers would beat the detainee until it stops struggling. That point may well be unconsciousness, which tends to make it pretty easy to put in jail.

I go with the interpretation that binding and fully gagging a creature is enough to stop most magic. That can be accomplished with some twine and a rag.


Arests would work just like in real life. You go quietly or they beat you into submission. Threaten their lives and they will kill you if they have to or can.

You two say this like beating the heck out of and/or killing someone doesn't happen all the time even without the struggling.

[Slipperychicken]

You two say this like beating the heck out of and/or killing someone doesn't happen all the time even without the struggling.

It absolutely does happen as you describe. I would love to express my opinions regarding such inhumane and horrifying treatment, I just figured I didn't want to risk dragging the thread into a tangent about current events or police brutality.

[Sigreid]

You two say this like beating the heck out of and/or killing someone doesn't happen all the time even without the struggling.

I know a lot of cops. They would much prefer that there be no beating or struggle.

[BeefGood]

I like the suggestions to incorporate a Readied Action. It is a good example of something I didn’t immediately realize about Readying, that the “readiness” can continue into the next round. I’m going to write the scenario in more detail in case it is helpful to others.
I will assume that the Creature-to-be-Jailed has highest initiative, then Guard 1, then Guard 2. I’m also going to assume that the creature can’t simply run away from the guards prior to the grapple attempts. If the creature can simply run away, then the jailing process is moot.
Round 1 Creature Action: kicks guard in shin for 1 hp damage; Move: None.
Round 1 Guard 1 Action: Successfully grapples creature. Move: drags creature into nearby jail cell
Round 1 Guard 2 Action: Readies “Close and lock door when Guard 1 runs out of cell.” Move: Moves close to cell door if not already there.
Round 2 Creature Action: Unsuccessful attempt to escape grapple. Move: None (because speed is 0 while grappled.)
Round 2 Guard 1 Releases the grapple, which does not count as an action. Move: Runs out of cell. This triggers Guard 2’s Readied Action. Guard 2 closes and locks the door. G1’s turn resumes and he still has an action if he wishes to use one.
I think it’s reasonable for Guard 2’s Readied things to count as a single action. Both “close a door” and “turn a key in a lock” are listed as free object interactions in the sidebar box on PHB 190. To perform two free interactions, I think it’s reasonable to require a (single) Action.
I apologize for bringing up the spellcaster; my point, as Tanarii correctly surmised, was jailing a non-caster. But on the other hand it seems that there’s still quite a bit of interest in whether casters can be neutralized w/o use of magic, short of beating them unconscious. Also, it’s a little odd that RAW for jailing a creature exist (and one example is given above, assuming I’ve got it right) while there’s no RAW for putting manacles on someone (to inhibit somatic and perhaps access to material components). Even odder given that the very brief Manacles description (PHB 152) references or implies five different ways to escape them: Dex check, Str check, key, thieves’s tools plus Dex check, smashing. Five RAW to escape manacles and zero RAW to apply them. Well, one way I suppose, beat the creature unconscious then put on the manacles.

[JellyPooga]

- Thief Rogue
- Expertise Athletics
- Grapple
- Shove + Fast Hands to lock the door

Done. :smallbiggrin:

[Tanarii]

- Thief Rogue
- Expertise Athletics
- Grapple
- Shove + Fast Hands to lock the door

Done. :smallbiggrin:
"... and that's how I escaped, boys. You should have seen the look on the key's face when I planted my foot on his ass and kicked him into that there cell, then slammed it shut behind him!"

[RickAllison]

I would point out that even in real life, numerous prisons are far from impossible to escape from, especially with "magical" i.e. explosive help from the outside. People don't do it, however, because they know that escape means they are hunted. Unless the person reliably believes they can evade capture (heading To a country without an extradition treaty), being captured means they are put in a more secure and less pleasant facility, and they may not be re-captured at all. In D&D, this means they will start having the total precautions if they need the PC, and will go for the kill if they do not.

A third-level wizard (or eladrin) can just Misty Step outside, but why would they when escape means that they will be hunted and killed? I think of it like Skyrim, where the prisons are no challenge for a Dovahkin, but the PC may not leave since leaving prematurely just makes your bounty larger and thus harder to deal with later. When it is large enough, they realize you have little intention of getting captured again and start attacking instead of arresting.

[Dr. Cliché]

Over the weekend I ran into a different variant of this general question, which is: how do you lock a creature into a jail cell?

I would suggest that getting a creature into a jail cell is something that is done when said creature is either complying (or, at least, not resisting) or is unconscious.

Basically, if a creature was actively trying to fight you, you'd probably be trying to kill or incapacitate it - not lock it in a cell.

To put it another way, jail is what happens after a fight has been won and the creatures have either submitted or been incapacitated.

[Zorku]

We build prisons because they hold people. Escapes are the exception rather than the rule and not simply because we're incapable of building a box a person can't easily get out of but bully them into just staying put. A world where prisons don't work is a world where they don't build prisons and don't take prisoners. We must accept 1 of two wholly mutually exclusive things: This is perfectly in line with what I wrote. You need a lot of psychological pressure to stop a person from trying to get out of that box, and even then there is a substantial amount of danger involved for the people that are exerting that pressure, as well as anyone else within, or in fairly close proximity to said box.

[Asmotherion]

This thought hadn't occurred to me at all and it would work with a good majority of casters!

I'd also add on to tie their hands up as well as blindfold/cover their head. This would be easy enough for most jails imo, as the armor doesn't have to be particularly well made, just function for the purpose of heavy armor.

Sure there are corner cases where the caster can cast spells in heavy armor (Clerics and multiclassed casters), but how many Clerics are getting locked up and placed in a jail cell? How many corner cases come along where a caster is capable of wearing heavy armor?



Having a high AC does nothing for grappling. To grapple someone requires an Athletics check from the grappler and an opposed Athletics or Acrobatics check from the grapplee (the caster). The ability to have 29 AC as a caster, or whatever number you can possibly pump it up to, does nothing to help with rolling a higher Acrobatics or Athletics check.

Yeah, my bad... been playing an other system lattely, and there, to initiate a grapple you first need a successful attack. Got confused between the systems, sory XD

[Malifice]

A while ago there were some threads about whether spellcasting could be nullified by physical means, say by immobilizing the caster's hands. After contributing to and reading those threads, my opinion now is that there's no provision in the RAW for doing this. (other than dropping the caster to zero hit points, of course.)
Over the weekend I ran into a different variant of this general question, which is: how do you lock a creature into a jail cell? I think there's a RAW to do this, but I would like others' opinions because it seems like it could get silly.
Step 1: Jailer #1 successfully grapples the creature.
Step 2: Jailer #1 drags the creature into the cell.
Step 3: Jailer #1 releases the grapple (no action required) and moves out of cell.
Step 4: Jailer #2 locks the cell door.
I say that I think it might get silly because it depends on Jailer #2 preceding the jailed creature in initiative. If the jailed creature is ahead (in initiative) of Jailer #2, then the jailed creature can run out of the cell before Jailer #2 can lock the door. It might take several attempts to get the creature locked into the cell.
Thoughts appreciated.

Use Grogdar the Bounty Hunter. He specialises in bringing in enemy wizards.

Hes a Barbarian 1, Rogue 1 (expertise in athletics and animal handling), Cleric 15, Ranger 3 (beast master). Has the Grappler feat, Strength 20.

He precasts Antimagic field (lasts an hour). His monkey animal companion has a set of manacles. Grogdar has used his +15 in animal handling to teach his monkey how to use the manacles.

Grogdar sees our target, rages (as a bonus action) and runs in, grappling him at +17 (with advantage). Our target cant escape with magic and needs to crack a pretty high number to escape the grapple via conventional means.

The following round, he gets restrained, while the Monkey animal companion locks him up in manacles.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I would suggest that getting a creature into a jail cell is something that is done when said creature is either complying (or, at least, not resisting) or is unconscious... ...jail is what happens after a fight has been won and the creatures have either submitted or been incapacitated.

And if they do fight you, start punching them again until they're either unconscious or submit again.

In the case of PC's that mean you will be jailing them with negative hitpoints, but most realistic people will recognize a fight they can't win (four armed guards here, thirty more elsewhere in the building, riot guns, water cannons and shields where I can't reach them, none of these other cell doors can be opened from inside the complex and there is a door operated only from the outside between me and freedom, yeah, I'll pass) and get in the cell.

[Fey]

Any questions of how to jail a spellcaster really breaks immersion in a game unless you're specifically playing a high-magic campaign with wizards on every corner.

I mean, come on. Imagine some town guards capturing Gandalf and throwing him in a jail cell. You think he's going to stay locked up long? Do you think an average town guard knows enough about magic to successfully nullify a spellcaster? The answer to the question "How do you put a wizard in jail?" is "You don't."

Spellcasters should be rare enough that no kingdom would have prisons built with them in mind. Especially high level PC spellcasters who are supposed to be unique if not legendary figures. Prisons would be built to handle normal, non-spellcasting people. And on the rare, once-in-a-lifetime situation where you need to jail a wizard or sorcerer, you would need to hire some kind of elite force for law and justice that can handle such rare things. The wizard would never end up locked in a cell in the town jail. He'd be taken to some far off place with rarely used mystical facilities for binding people and creatures of great power.

[Slipperychicken]

I mean, come on. Imagine some town guards capturing Gandalf and throwing him in a jail cell. You think he's going to stay locked up long? Do you think an average town guard knows enough about magic to successfully nullify a spellcaster? The answer to the question "How do you put a wizard in jail?" is "You don't."

After enough town priests, alchemists, hedge-mages, and sorcerers get into alteractions with magic at their fingertips, yes, guards would have learned that hand-restraints and gagging are enough to prevent spellcasting.

If nothing else, some civic-minded magician would be used as a consultant to help law-enforcement learn to restrain others.

[Armored Walrus]

- Thief Rogue
- Expertise Athletics
- Grapple
- Shove + Fast Hands to lock the door

Done. :smallbiggrin:

How busy are the bounty hunters in a world where all the jailors are thieves? :P

[Tanarii]

After enough town priests, alchemists, hedge-mages, and sorcerers get into alteractions with magic at their fingertips, yes, guards would have learned that hand-restraints and gagging are enough to prevent spellcasting.Yeah, it really depends on your assumptions. Even if you assume 1:1000 PC:NPC ratio, and a roughly even distribution of fullcaster:non-fullcaster among PCs ... you're still probably looking at a large number of NPCs who can 1st spells (say CR 1 or less), or maybe even 2nd (CR 2).

[Fey]

After enough town priests, alchemists, hedge-mages, and sorcerers get into alteractions with magic at their fingertips, yes, guards would have learned that hand-restraints and gagging are enough to prevent spellcasting.

If nothing else, some civic-minded magician would be used as a consultant to help law-enforcement learn to restrain others.

Spellcasters shouldn't be common enough for that to happen. It's like saying "After enough bombs get planted in the city, cops will learn to disarm bombs." The average cop DOESN'T learn this, because the average cop is never going to encounter an explosive in their entire career. They call in the specialists who are specially trained in how to handle explosives. Likewise, the average town guard in a D&D world has probably never once in his life had to deal with arresting or containing a spellcaster. If there is trouble with a spellcaster, town guards should be calling in an elite mage-hunter to track and apprehend the criminals, so they can be taken off to be tried in a location that is equipped to handle such things, such as an ancient stronghold guarded by the elite warriors of the gods who have been charged with protecting the world from destruction.

Imagine Lord of the Rings if the average, run of the mill gate guard in the village of Bree knew how to stop someone like Gandalf or Saruman from using their magic. It wouldn't make any sense. Wizards are supposed to be rare and powerful. Dealing with them should be beyond the means of the town guard. If not, there's something seriously wrong.

[JellyPooga]

How busy are the bounty hunters in a world where all the jailors are thieves? :P

I figure that being a turnkey is a pretty boring job, on the whole. Gotta fill your time doing something; learn card tricks, play games, practice speeches in the mirror, go shout at any prisoners you happen to have, sing to the empty cells if you don't, do some push-ups, get that nasal cavity really clean...lots of time for self improvement, ya know? I reckon most gaolers have a level or two of Rogue...the best; you know, the ones they ask to come in on their day off because there's an adventurer to deal with; those ones might even have three :smallwink:

Besides, they do say "set a Thief..." and all that.

[GPS]

After enough town priests, alchemists, hedge-mages, and sorcerers get into alteractions with magic at their fingertips, yes, guards would have learned that hand-restraints and gagging are enough to prevent spellcasting.

If nothing else, some civic-minded magician would be used as a consultant to help law-enforcement learn to restrain others.
Two words my good sir, sublte spell. Town guards may learn to bind a wizard, but they're never going to lock-up a sorc for long.

[Slipperychicken]

Two words my good sir, sublte spell. Town guards may learn to bind a wizard, but they're never going to lock-up a sorc for long.

Well, a sorceror of 3rd level or higher who both specifically picked that option over the others, and knows a spell that can escape them from restraints. And who would rather live on the run than cooperate to return to normal life afterward. That lowers the pool considerably.

It occurred to me that adding a blindfold to the restraints would further cut off spells like Misty Step, which require sight. Being a magician under competent detention gets less pleasant the more I think about it...

[RickAllison]

Well, a sorceror of 3rd level or higher who both specifically picked that option over the others, and knows a spell that can escape them from restraints. And who would rather live on the run than cooperate to return to normal life afterward. That lowers the pool considerably.

It occurred to me that adding a blindfold to the restraints would further cut off spells like Misty Step, which require sight. Being a magician under competent detention gets less pleasant the more I think about it...

And this is why in D&D, you wouldn't see "competent detention" unless you are headed for execution or you severely piss off a noble. You are far more likely to have some noble or official who has use of another spellcaster and would rather have sort of a co-op parole program. Namely they would have the casters be put up rather nicely and they work for the noble for a time. For a lesser noble, putting up some funds to attract a prisoner is cheaper than keeping a spellcaster on retainer.

[Armored Walrus]

I don't think jail was all that common in the medieval period in the first place. Didn't they just cut off a theif's ear, or brand them, or cut off a hand, etc.? Jail was pretty much for political prisoners wasn't it? Common folk would have been put to work in the mines instead, with overseers that would actively keep them in line.

[GPS]

I don't think jail was all that common in the medieval period in the first place. Didn't they just cut off a theif's ear, or brand them, or cut off a hand, etc.? Jail was pretty much for political prisoners wasn't it? Common folk would have been put to work in the mines instead, with overseers that would actively keep them in line.
Well, yes, but it depends on how medieval you want d&d to be. If you go too medieval, you get into a bad zone. If you go too not medieval...you have to do more setting work, or something? (Yeah, it's not really the sort of thing that goes both ways)

[Beleriphon]

Why not just go the full Eberron's Dreadhold. Which uses a combination of regular prison labour, flesh to stone, extra dimensional spaces, and House Kundarak dwarves to keep prisoners in place. The flesh to stone option is a really good way to stop a prisoner from escaping.

[druid91]

Um... AC is never involved in grappling. It's an opposed skill check.

It's an opposed skill check AFTER you hit with the attack. You make a Melee attack, and then instead of damage, roll an opposed skill check. If you win, you grapple them.

[Armored Walrus]

It's an opposed skill check AFTER you hit with the attack. You make a Melee attack, and then instead of damage, roll an opposed skill check. If you win, you grapple them.

From PHB page 195:

Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check ...

Why do people post stuff like it's fact when in reality they never bothered even looking at the rule in question?

[RickAllison]

It's an opposed skill check AFTER you hit with the attack. You make a Melee attack, and then instead of damage, roll an opposed skill check. If you win, you grapple them.

Not even close. Grappling and Shoving are opposed skill checks that are called special melee attacks. You don't need to make an attack roll. You may be thinking of certain beasts and monsters that auto-grapple when they manage to hit.

[druid91]

From PHB page 195:

Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check ...

Why do people post stuff like it's fact when in reality they never bothered even looking at the rule in question?


Because that part comes after it says it's a special melee attack. Using the attack action. Which requires an attack roll. The attack roll decides if you can even get ahold of them. The check decides if you can overpower them.

A melee attack requires an attack roll.

And I.did look at the book. It does not say you make a grapple check in place of an attack roll.

[Slipperychicken]

And this is why in D&D, you wouldn't see "competent detention" unless you are headed for execution or you severely piss off a noble. You are far more likely to have some noble or official who has use of another spellcaster and would rather have sort of a co-op parole program. Namely they would have the casters be put up rather nicely and they work for the noble for a time. For a lesser noble, putting up some funds to attract a prisoner is cheaper than keeping a spellcaster on retainer.

I don't think jail was all that common in the medieval period in the first place. Didn't they just cut off a theif's ear, or brand them, or cut off a hand, etc.? Jail was pretty much for political prisoners wasn't it? Common folk would have been put to work in the mines instead, with overseers that would actively keep them in line.

If people in OP's setting are not going to detain anyone, then the discussion is kind of moot. However, the fantasy settings I've seen, heard of, and played in generally include specialized detention facilities and regular guards for them. In settings where that is the case, I think the measures I mentioned (binding, gagging, blinding) would seem like common-sense precautions when detaining uncooperative magicians.

[Mellack]

Because that part comes after it says it's a special melee attack. Using the attack action. Which requires an attack roll. The attack roll decides if you can even get ahold of them. The check decides if you can overpower them.

A melee attack requires an attack roll.

And I.did look at the book. It does not say you make a grapple check in place of an attack roll.

Nope. You say that it taks an attack roll to deecide if you get a hold of them. The book clearly says it is a check to do that.

From PHB page 195:

Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check

Note it says instead of, not in addition to.