Help break my spell-block! (Bard spells)

[Alejandro]

1st level cleric, freshly 4th level bard. So, I have one new bard spell to pick. I have 3rd level spell slots now, but cannot yet learn 3rd level spells, so I intend to choose a third 2nd level bard spell.

I already know Shatter and Phantasmal Force, and have gotten great use out of both. I have a magic item that can cast Lesser Restoration, so that is covered.

I'm considering spells like Hold Person, Heat Metal, Blindness/Deafness, and Suggestion. Our game is in the Underdark (OOTA) and this is making me hesitant on Hold Person and Heat Metal, as we encounter many, many things that are not humanoids (which Hold Person requires) or do not wield or wear metal, limiting the use of Heat Metal. I would love spell recommendations or suggestions from other Bards, etc. :)

[MrStabby]

Seriously, heat metal is so good when you can use it that it is worth knowing anyway.

Things with opposable thumbs tend to carry/wear metal. You might get some traction getting a team mate to stab something metal into them and leave it there if they are not well equipped to pull it out.

[Vorok]

Why not Enhance Ability? Advantage on ability checks is quite nice, it can give other perks (THP, lower falling dmg). I think the dex variant gives advantage on Initiative rolls as well, but I'd talk to GM to make sure (or search if there's a Sage Advice or something).

[Alejandro]

Why not Enhance Ability? Advantage on ability checks is quite nice, it can give other perks (THP, lower falling dmg). I think the dex variant gives advantage on Initiative rolls as well, but I'd talk to GM to make sure (or search if there's a Sage Advice or something).

Good idea, I did not think of that. Initiative boosting is nice, and I could also make my Charisma ability checks very, very hard to resist, which might help with Dispel Magic and Counterspell.

I wonder: My bard wears heavy armor (thanks to Life cleric) but since I don't have a STR of 13, my movement rate is penalized. If I buffed my STR, think I could convince my GM to let me move at a normal rate as long as the spell held out?

[JAL_1138]

When and if it comes up, Heat Metal is glorious. Cast it on armor and the enemy is up the creek while your Concentration lasts. Cast it on a weapon and make them drop it, which can be a lifesaver against a Drow rogue with a poisoned dagger. The downside is, as you've noted, that it doesn't necessarily come up that much unless fighting humanoids or humanoid-ish critters using metal armor, weapons, jewelry, etc. I did manage to talk my DM in to letting me cast it on someone's gold teeth once...anyway, agreed with MrStabby—it's worth having for the instances it does come up.

Blindness/Deafness is non-Concentration, so if fighting something that needs eyes to see you (which is a lot of things, even in the Underdark), it can be a great debuff even though it allows for a save each turn.

[Yuroch Kern]

Personally, I find great use with Faerie Fire. Yeah, not 2nd level, but it's hell on wheels in the Underdark, and you cast it with any of your slots. You got pretty much the choice 2nd level Bard spells covered, so Heat Metal is good, but I went with See Invisibility. 1 hour, non-con duration and well, you would be surprised how many things love invisibility at that level. At least, my experience.

[JellyPooga]

I'll second Enhance Ability; great spell, versatile and has a decent duration. Invisibility is also very good; powerful combat buff, but with that 10 minute duration can also slip you past multiple sentries with ease.

[EvilAnagram]

Suggestion. You're a bard, for crying out loud.

[cZak]

Blindness/ Deafness is a great caster shutdown.
Con save is a good target vs Cleric, Wiz, Bard, & Warlock
No concentration is good

[Biggstick]

I'll second Enhance Ability; great spell, versatile and has a decent duration. Invisibility is also very good; powerful combat buff, but with that 10 minute duration can also slip you past multiple sentries with ease.

Invisibility actually has a 1 hour duration.

For the OP, what first level spells do you have? What's your party make-up look like? What role are you trying to fill in the party?

It appears you have some CC with Phantasmal Force (which is very fitting in the Underdark by the way) and some ok AoE for a level 5 PC (Shatter is solid for what's available to you, but it's no Fireball or Lightning). This type of spell choice makes me think you're a blaster/controller for your group, but I might be mistaken.

Without knowing too much about your party composition/role, I'd suggest these spells: Blindness/Deafness, Detect Thoughts, Enhance Ability, Heat Metal, Invisibility, Silence, or Suggestion.

Suggestion isn't necessarily the best spell to be using in the Underdark, as their are certain creatures that will do very well in saves vs Charm. The same could be said of Heat Metal in that not every monster or creature in the Underdark utilizes something metal. And while normally a staple in many builds, I'd be a bit more hesitant to pick up Invisibility. Plenty of the bad things you want to sneak past probably have other methods of detecting you that don't require standard vision (tremor sense/traps/webs and what not). All three of these spells are great when they work, but I'd probably go with one of the other ones I've suggested.

[PeteNutButter]

I'm not a big fan of enhance ability. I think it's effects are too minor to warrant concentration. Compared to something like ongoing damage (heat metal), or ongoing CC(hold person), or a much more powerful buff (bless)... it just doesn't measure up IMO.

Hold person is amazing. You can cast it up to target more foes, so you can hit two drow with it at once already. The trick about it is, you don't treat it like CC, you treat it like a tactic for your allies to nuke the paralyzed target. If you have a rogue or a paladin or even a half orc they salivate at those automatic criticals.

Another off the wall suggestion I'd consider is Cloud of Daggers. If you have a PC in your party who is a competent grappler it is silly amounts of auto-damage that scales quite well with higher level slots, especially if you can move them in and out of it on multiple turns. It's garbage though, without someone holding them in place somehow.

[EvilAnagram]

Cloud of Daggers isn't bad if you have other means of forced movement, actually. Thunderwave, Thorn Whip and Repelling Blast are all solid ways to get the most out of it.

[JellyPooga]

I'm not a big fan of enhance ability.

It becomes very good when upcast for multiple targets; giving half the party or more advantage on Initiative when you know a fightos brewing, helping the party to cross an obstacle (pit/chasm/cliff), or giving he resident counterspeller advantage on their Counterspell check can be invaluable, to mention just a couple of examples. It's also one that you can fire and forget in many cases if concentration is an issue; you might only need it for one ortwo rounds.

[PeteNutButter]

It becomes very good when upcast for multiple targets; giving half the party or more advantage on Initiative when you know a fightos brewing, helping the party to cross an obstacle (pit/chasm/cliff), or giving he resident counterspeller advantage on their Counterspell check can be invaluable, to mention just a couple of examples. It's also one that you can fire and forget in many cases if concentration is an issue; you might only need it for one ortwo rounds.

I suppose it's not horrible rolling around with cat's grace for advantage when you are say in a dungeon where you expect initiative to be rolled multiple times in the hour. You can always drop it once the fight starts, after having benefited from it.

Still probably not worth the slot at low-mid levels, unless your party can really capitalize on going first, with high burst damage or lock out CC spells.

[Alejandro]

Invisibility actually has a 1 hour duration.

For the OP, what first level spells do you have? What's your party make-up look like? What role are you trying to fill in the party?

It appears you have some CC with Phantasmal Force (which is very fitting in the Underdark by the way) and some ok AoE for a level 5 PC (Shatter is solid for what's available to you, but it's no Fireball or Lightning). This type of spell choice makes me think you're a blaster/controller for your group, but I might be mistaken.

Without knowing too much about your party composition/role, I'd suggest these spells: Blindness/Deafness, Detect Thoughts, Enhance Ability, Heat Metal, Invisibility, Silence, or Suggestion.

Suggestion isn't necessarily the best spell to be using in the Underdark, as their are certain creatures that will do very well in saves vs Charm. The same could be said of Heat Metal in that not every monster or creature in the Underdark utilizes something metal. And while normally a staple in many builds, I'd be a bit more hesitant to pick up Invisibility. Plenty of the bad things you want to sneak past probably have other methods of detecting you that don't require standard vision (tremor sense/traps/webs and what not). All three of these spells are great when they work, but I'd probably go with one of the other ones I've suggested.

The party regulars are myself (Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard 4) and:

- Arcane Trickster rogue, but doesn't really use their spells other than Shield, and just makes crossbow attacks
- Sun Soul Monk with a cleric level for a little healing, so I would not be the only character with healing magic. Does well.
- Dwarf champion fighter, tanks & shanks and does it well.

I always have the Life domain 1st level cleric spells, and I prepare things like Shield of Faith and Protection from Evil.

My 1st level Bard spells are Sleep, Tasha's Laughter, Thunderwave, and Silent Image.

I don't bother with Faerie Fire, as our GM houseruled it to be much less effective than RAW. I also have decent HP (16 CON) and wear heavy armor and use a shield, so I can fake being a front line warrior too, as all good bards should be able to fake almost all the party roles. :)

[PeteNutButter]

The party regulars are myself (Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard 4) and:

- Arcane Trickster rogue, but doesn't really use their spells other than Shield, and just makes crossbow attacks
- Sun Soul Monk with a cleric level for a little healing, so I would not be the only character with healing magic. Does well.
- Dwarf champion fighter, tanks & shanks and does it well.

I always have the Life domain 1st level cleric spells, and I prepare things like Shield of Faith and Protection from Evil.

My 1st level Bard spells are Sleep, Tasha's Laughter, Thunderwave, and Silent Image.

I don't bother with Faerie Fire, as our GM houseruled it to be much less effective than RAW. I also have decent HP (16 CON) and wear heavy armor and use a shield, so I can fake being a front line warrior too, as all good bards should be able to fake almost all the party roles. :)

Not sure what your stats are, but typically this build has much lower wisdom than cha, prompting many to take at least Healing Word as a bard spell. While you can cast it as a cleric spell, you add your wisdom mod instead of cha. The difference can be as much as 4 points from a 13 wisdom to a 20 cha.

[Alejandro]

Not sure what your stats are, but typically this build has much lower wisdom than cha, prompting many to take at least Healing Word as a bard spell. While you can cast it as a cleric spell, you add your wisdom mod instead of cha. The difference can be as much as 4 points from a 13 wisdom to a 20 cha.

14 Wis, 18 Cha. I always prepare Healing Word as a Cleric spell, and use it as my in combat healing spell. Since I am a Life cleric, I add a decent bonus to the spell. I only cast healing spells when a party member has actually been KOed, so far that works very well. Most healing is done in short rests, using my Bard ability to improve the spending of hit dice.

[PeteNutButter]

14 Wis, 18 Cha. I always prepare Healing Word as a Cleric spell, and use it as my in combat healing spell. Since I am a Life cleric, I add a decent bonus to the spell. I only cast healing spells when a party member has actually been KOed, so far that works very well. Most healing is done in short rests, using my Bard ability to improve the spending of hit dice.

Yeah, I'd dump sleep spell and replace it with Healing Word, either now or in the next couple levels. Sleep gets pretty weak by mid levels. Having those extra +2 hp (eventually +3) from healing word might not seem like much, but it could make a difference. You'd get more mileage out of it for sure, compared to a spell you never cast anymore.

[Alejandro]

Yeah, I'd dump sleep spell and replace it with Healing Word, either now or in the next couple levels. Sleep gets pretty weak by mid levels. Having those extra +2 hp (eventually +3) from healing word might not seem like much but it could make a difference. You'd get more mileage out of it for sure, compared to a spell you never cast anymore.

I already have Healing Word. I can prepare spells as a 1st level cleric; Healing Word is one of them. It's not on my bard spell list for that reason, I already have it.

[PeteNutButter]

I already have Healing Word. I can prepare spells as a 1st level cleric; Healing Word is one of them. It's not on my bard spell list for that reason, I already have it.

Healing Word cast as a cleric spell should heal for 1d4+2(wisdom mod)+3(life cleric boost). Casting it as a Bard spell gives you cha mod instead, so another 2, or likely 3 when you get your next ASI.

[Alejandro]

Healing Word cast as a cleric spell should heal for 1d4+2(wisdom mod)+3(life cleric boost). Casting it as a Bard spell gives you cha mod instead, so another 2, or likely 3 when you get your next ASI.

A couple extra HP doesn't really matter though. :) I would much rather have another Bard spell slot that I don't have to dedicate to a healing spell.

[JAL_1138]

Healing Word cast as a cleric spell should heal for 1d4+2(wisdom mod)+3(life cleric boost). Casting it as a Bard spell gives you cha mod instead, so another 2, or likely 3 when you get your next ASI.

Healing Word doesn't heal enough to be worth much regardless of casting modifier; it's basically just useful to get people up who've been KO'd. Another point or two from Cha mod is almost never going to matter.

EDIT: Shadow Monk'd.

[PeteNutButter]

A couple extra HP doesn't really matter though. :) I would much rather have another Bard spell slot that I don't have to dedicate to a healing spell.


Healing Word doesn't heal enough to be worth much regardless of casting modifier; it's basically just useful to get people up who've been KO'd. Another point or two from Cha mod is almost never going to matter.

EDIT: Shadow Monk'd.

Then why take life cleric?

In my experience, at least once a session either a PC and/or several monsters are put at 1-3 hit points from an attack.

[JAL_1138]

Then why take life cleric?

Can't speak for the OP, but at later levels, spells like Mass Cure Wounds (bard list) or Aura of Vitality (if taken as a Magical Secret) will benefit significantly from it. Goodberry could be another Secrets or a Magic Initiate pick, leading to some strong fromage from each berry benefiting from Life Cleric for 40 healing out of combat from a first-level slot.

[Biggstick]

Aura of Vitality, as one of the Lore Bard's Magical Secrets at Bard 6, is absolutely one of the biggest reasons you would want to dip for Life Cleric.

Access to Heavy armor is another nice little perk of choosing Life over something like Knowledge as well.

[Alejandro]

Then why take life cleric?

In my experience, at least once a session either a PC and/or several monsters are put at 1-3 hit points from an attack.

I chose to start with Life Cleric 1 because I wanted:

- Proficiency in Wisdom saves
- Heavy armor proficiency
- Cleric access to healing spells, so I would not have to spend valuable Bard spell real estate picking them up later.

[Yuroch Kern]

The party regulars are myself (Life Cleric 1/Lore Bard 4) and:

- Arcane Trickster rogue, but doesn't really use their spells other than Shield, and just makes crossbow attacks
- Sun Soul Monk with a cleric level for a little healing, so I would not be the only character with healing magic. Does well.
- Dwarf champion fighter, tanks & shanks and does it well.

I always have the Life domain 1st level cleric spells, and I prepare things like Shield of Faith and Protection from Evil.

My 1st level Bard spells are Sleep, Tasha's Laughter, Thunderwave, and Silent Image.

I don't bother with Faerie Fire, as our GM houseruled it to be much less effective than RAW. I also have decent HP (16 CON) and wear heavy armor and use a shield, so I can fake being a front line warrior too, as all good bards should be able to fake almost all the party roles. :)

Eh? What's the houserule?...Anyhow, you got pretty much your bases covered. I would then pick either Heroism or Calm Emotions for anti-fear effects. You got a great Cha for the Heroism and a 2nd level slot would be two of your party benefiting, or 3 if it was really crucial. After that, look for non-spells like Longstrider that can target multiple peeps at higher level slots.

[Alejandro]

Eh? What's the houserule?...Anyhow, you got pretty much your bases covered. I would then pick either Heroism or Calm Emotions for anti-fear effects. You got a great Cha for the Heroism and a 2nd level slot would be two of your party benefiting, or 3 if it was really crucial. After that, look for non-spells like Longstrider that can target multiple peeps at higher level slots.

Our houseruled Faerie Fire only affects one target, and for less time than the spell normally lasts. So I didn't bother with it, as the whole reason I would get it would be to give the party advantage on their attack rolls against many enemies. The GM felt that was too strong and nerfed it.

[Yuroch Kern]

Wow. That spell got brutalized, considering it's already a save or suck...well, consider a non-con spell, seeing as you got some concs already. If you hate it, 5th level bard isn't far away and you can swap it out. Might sound dismissive, but you really do have a balanced list next to your party compostion. You could supplement even further if you take Magic Initiate with Bard/Sorceror too.