[3.5] First time playing a psion

[Vidryan]

I have a character concept for a campaign that I'm playing, but attempting to make a psion for the first time has proven... Challenging. Essentially this character is the party face and a psychic spy, using telepathic abilities and a fairly decent charisma score to infiltrate and beguile his way through encounters. I want to build him in a way that leverages those abilities at the expense of all else. No constructs, no telekinesis, just straight up manipulation and mind attacks. Maybe some seer stuff, as long as it fits thematically. I don't mind being ineffective against undead and constructs and generally being less optimized in combat, but I do want to be the best at this one thing. I've made it as far as deciding on a human psion telepath before being completely overwhelmed by a wealth of new options and mechanics to learn. I've read the XPH a fair amount, and I grasp how the class plays, but in terms of power selection and feats, I could use some recommendations.

[ExLibrisMortis]

There's a web ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) that grants Telepathy (Su) to telepath psions. An excellent pick. There is almost obligatory synergy with Mindsight, a feat from Lords of Madness.

For your race, consider azurin (Magic of Incarnum) if you are going to use psicarnum tricks. It's really quite cool.

In terms of powers, start by picking the telepath list dry, then fill out with all-round utility powers: at least one simple damaging power (crystal shard is fine, crystalstorm is nicer, and one energy power is practical, to exploit vulnerabilities), some basic buffs (inertial armour lasts for a very long time at higher levels), some basic action economy (synchronicity, later on schism).

Extend Power is nice to invest in, a general-purpose buff-enhancing feat. Linked Power is good, too.

[Manyasone]

When playing a telepath I found that a dip in incarnate (2lvls) and maybe 8 lvls in soul manifester will do you good. The charming veil is a monster and the added punch you can give is worth it

[Vidryan]

There's a web ACF that grants Telepathy (Su) to telepath psions. An excellent pick. There is almost obligatory synergy with Mindsight, a feat from Lords of Madness.

For your race, consider azurin (Magic of Incarnum) if you are going to use psicarnum tricks. It's really quite cool.

In terms of powers, start by picking the telepath list dry, then fill out with all-round utility powers: at least one simple damaging power (crystal shard is fine, crystalstorm is nicer, and one energy power is practical, to exploit vulnerabilities), some basic buffs (inertial armour lasts for a very long time at higher levels), some basic action economy (synchronicity, later on schism).

Extend Power is nice to invest in, a general-purpose buff-enhancing feat. Linked Power is good, too.

Telepathy and Mindsight fit perfectly with the concept I'm going for. I did a bit of googling, and I'm not entirely sure what makes Azurin a beneficial choice. I'm also really unfamiliar with the supplemental books since my groups mostly run the core rulebooks mixed with some homebrew.

Inertial armor is fine, I can spin it as being a psychic push that affects attacker's coordination rather than the force field it is described as, but I'm less comfortable with throwing around shards of crystals. I don't see the character as much of a gish, but I'd rather see him swinging a weapon or throwing vials of acid than conjuring matter out of thin air. Our campaign is pretty heavy with stealth and intrigue and relatively forgiving with combat, if that helps at all. Synchronicity and Schism are both great additions that fit the flavor of the character brilliantly.

[J-H]

Google and read the 3.5 psion handbook. I am on my phone so i cannot easily link to it

[Xaotiq1]

It's got a few other tricks, but this build http://http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471343-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-Face-First-(Tempest_Stormwind) (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?471343-Weekly-Optimization-Showcase-Face-First-(Tempest_Stormwind)) is super fun.

[ATHATH]

Would a Psychic Rogue interest you?

http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723c

Here's the handbook for them (eve if you don't want to play a Psychic Rogue, check out the PrC section): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?234327-3-5-Thinking-on-your-Feet-The-Psychic-Rogue-Handbook

Maybe you'd be interested in playing a Psibond agent? It doesn't progress Manifesting (so don't even bother trying to focus on that), but it's pretty much Psychic Spy: The PrC.

[ExLibrisMortis]

I did a bit of googling, and I'm not entirely sure what makes Azurin a beneficial choice.
As Manyasone mentioned, incarnate and soul manifester have solid synergy with (social skill/charm-based) psionics.

Basically, azurin are humans, but instead of 1 bonus skill point per level, they get 1 point of essentia. If you were to dip incarnate, that point of essentia would get you such things as +2 Bluff and Diplomacy (and possibly Sense Motive), or +2 Gather Information, Search, and Sense Motive, or similar things like that. It could also get you +1 to the save DC of your charm/compulsion powers. You can switch this bonus around as a swift action, so it's rather a solid boost to a lot of things.

You can get some of these bonuses through feats, rather than an incarnate dip, if preferred.


As a cheesy option, incarnum is also useful for pp recharge tricks, but I don't think that's what you're looking for.

[Manyasone]

As a cheesy option, incarnum is also useful for pp recharge tricks, but I don't think that's what you're looking for.

Azure talent plus psycarnum infusion.
It's a thing. Maybe take it into consideration, OP

[Rizban]

I like ego whip as my damaging power with a telepath. It's a direct attack on the psyche and can take out some enemies with a single hit. It unfortunately doesn't stack well with damage from the rest of the party.

[Rerednaw]

Charm.
Suggestion.
Dominate.
Detect Thoughts.
Telepathy ACF OR have your pet rock take Mindsight instead.
Schism.

Something for defense:
For AC: Inertial Armor
For Energy: Adaptation, Specified
For extra hp: Vigor + Share Pain is a nice combo.

Against mindless it is a good idea to have some form of pew pew whether it is Crystal Shard, Amethyst Burst, or Energy (Ray/Wall/etc.)

Azurin is a powerful race if you use Incarnum for PP recharge.

To conserve PP you could go with the Earth Sense + Earth Power feats.
You probably should take Overchannel.
You may consider take Talented.
Psycrystal is nice for a pet rock.
Psionic Meditation is a must have.

[Rizban]

Fun thing to note with psionics is that a dorje (psionic wand) can hold any psionic power up to 9th-level. They get really expensive really fast, but they do exist and can be quite useful to have.

[KillianHawkeye]

Psionic blast is another decent attack power for Telepaths. The duration got nerfed hard compared to mind blast, but stunning a group of enemies, even for just a round or two, can be really useful.

[Sagetim]

So, to start with, congratulations. You are now playing a class that is more balanced than a wizard. If you are starting at level 1, good luck, have fun, and try to survive. If you're starting at level 3, take a look at the Astral Construct power. It might not be spying related or particularly byeeeeoooweeeooo, but you know what it does well? Help you survive. Did you get caught with your hand in the cookie jar and now it's time to draw steel or die? Well, for you, it's now time to let your nightmares take physical form to pummel and maim your opponents.

In the case of a shaper I ran in a low level game, he made 'magic murder monkies' because his were small size, had flying, and claws and would gouge his opponents in the face regularly with their to hit bonus and Very nice ac of 18. Level 1 astral constructs are little tanky jerks that you can use to stay alive, if nothing else.

If you take no other powers from any other list, take Astral Construct using Expanded Knowledge. And if you find yourself relying on Astral constructs regularly, then maybe consider investing in the Boost Construct feat. But if it's not your main shtick, it's still a handy trick.

Energy ray is handy, in part for it's multiple element choices and in part because it has no save (just an attack roll). Mind Thrust looks good because it does d10's, but it's a will save or nothing. I would skip it personally, but I'm also the kind of crazy jerk that suggests taking Psychic Crush so you can stare someone in the eyes until they start bleeding from their face and fall over at -1 from failing the save.

Something that seems like it could be fun that I've never gotten a chance to try is Metaconcert, but that's a level 5 telepath power and requires you to have other psychic people to link up with to really do anything with it. That said, it's a 'by your powers combined' thing, so it seems like it could be pretty handy.

The downside of crystal powers is that they tend to do physical damage, and the party fighter or what have you can handle that kind of damage type. I suggest sticking to things hat they can't do, or can't do well, like ability score damage (Ego Whip does Cha damage as I recall) and elemental damage (which psionics is good at being versatile in, because all the powers let you pick a damage type on manifesting them).

You might want to avoid Energy Ball, because it's a point blank area of effect with a 40 foot radius, which means you can very easily murder your entire party by dropping that. Energy Bolt is rather easier to avoid murdering your friends with and is also a 3rd level power.

I have no suggestions regarding incarnum stuff. Never used it and haven't really looked into it that much. Given the way incarnum works though, it might break with your theme more than some of the stuff on the regular psion list though. As I recall, using any incarnum stuff involves getting glowing energy forms that kind of exist on your character where gear would normally be. So if you're building someone who wears a tux and inflitrates places with class and some mild holding his fingers to his temple, then having a giant glowing helmet appear while you do psychic stuff might...be a bit more of an indicator than you're looking for. Double check with someone who knows incarnum well though, I might just be remembering things wrong.

[Vidryan]

Thanks everyone! This input has been incredibly helpful, and I'm well on my way to a build that I am satisfied with.

Here's a question: Assuming that psicrystals gain feats, would it be possible to pick up Mindsight on my Psicrystal and use Sense Link on it in order to create a sort of mobile psychic radar?


ETA: for those interested, I'm doing a bit of a hybrid between Face First and the telepath build from the Psion Buildguide/Compendium. Illithid feats for flavor and freeing up 4 power slots, and the hilariously awesome psionic glibness. For now, I'm going to wait to see what else my DM throws at me before making any other decisions. I considered astral construct, but this character is a socialite fop with barely enough edge to cut a cheese wheel. I'd rather see him bleed out than turn into the green lantern.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The downside of crystal powers is that they tend to do physical damage, and the party fighter or what have you can handle that kind of damage type. I suggest sticking to things hat they can't do, or can't do well, like ability score damage (Ego Whip does Cha damage as I recall) and elemental damage (which psionics is good at being versatile in, because all the powers let you pick a damage type on manifesting them).

Important to note that if you do not have Complete Psionic or you ignore the rules change in said book this statement is incorrect. Bludgeoning/slashing/piercing damage off of spells cannot be reduced by any means and powers follow suit unless CPSI is on the table.

[KillianHawkeye]

Important to note that if you do not have Complete Psionic or you ignore the rules change in said book this statement is incorrect. Bludgeoning/slashing/piercing damage off of spells cannot be reduced by any means and powers follow suit unless CPSI is on the table.

Regardless of which way you want to rule things, the best idea is to treat spells and powers the same way when it comes to Damage Reduction. Either they should both be effected by DR, or they should both ignore it.

IMO, spells and powers should at least respect physical damage type-based DR, even if they ignore material- and alignment-based DR. A spell or power that deals bludgeoning damage probably shouldn't ignore DR N/slashing. It goes without saying that at the very least spells and powers should absolutely bypass DR N/magic.

[AlbanLusitanae]

I have a character concept for a campaign that I'm playing, but attempting to make a psion for the first time has proven... Challenging. Essentially this character is the party face and a psychic spy, using telepathic abilities and a fairly decent charisma score to infiltrate and beguile his way through encounters. I want to build him in a way that leverages those abilities at the expense of all else. No constructs, no telekinesis, just straight up manipulation and mind attacks. Maybe some seer stuff, as long as it fits thematically. I don't mind being ineffective against undead and constructs and generally being less optimized in combat, but I do want to be the best at this one thing. I've made it as far as deciding on a human psion telepath before being completely overwhelmed by a wealth of new options and mechanics to learn. I've read the XPH a fair amount, and I grasp how the class plays, but in terms of power selection and feats, I could use some recommendations.

Tell me, how did it went? I can try to help here as well, but the post is old already so... :) let me know

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