MC Paladin and Warlock - spells

[Escribblings]

I've been reading up on this build, and it looks quite interesting and is one that I am considering should I be able work out how to RP it and which pacts/oaths to choose.

But I'm stuck on a more fundamental point...

Spells, specifically the amount of spells known and slots available.

Lets take a 5/5 build... CHA 14 (+2) (currently ignoring pacts and oaths)

A L5 Paladin has 4 1st and 2 2nd level slots.

He can prepare ANY 4 spells from the 1st or 2nd level available 2 him. (2+(5/2) rounded down)

A L5 Warlock has only 2 spell slots, but they are BOTH 3rd level. He also knows 3 cantrips and 3 invocations...


You determine your available spell slots by adding together all your levels in the bard, cleric, druid, sorcerer, and wizard classes, half your levels (rounded down) in the paladin and ranger classes, and a third of your fighter or rogue levels (rounded down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or the Arcane Trickster feature.
Use this total to determine your spell slots by consulting the Multiclass Spellcaster table.
If you have more than one spellcasting class, this table might give you spell slots of a level that is higher than the spells you know or can prepare.

That doe NOT mention Warlock...

So do I halve the Paladin slots to 2/1 or do I keep them at 4/2?

Do I keep BOTH warlock slots?

And what about the MC slot table giving a L10 character 4 1st, 3 2nd, 3 3rd, 3 4th, and 2 5th level slots?

If I keep everything then I will have 4 1st, 2 2nd, and 2 3rd slots.

If I go with the MC table, despite not knowing anything higher than an L3 spell, I can cast it at L5

And what about the cantrips and invocations?

#confused

[Innocent_bystan]

Warlock uses a different spellcasting system, so the regular multiclassing rules for spellcasting don't apply.

Just figure out the slots for each system separately and add them together. Or in the case of the 5 paladin/5 warlock: 4 lvl 1 slots, 2 lvl 2 slots that refresh on a long rest and 2 lvl 3 slots that refresh on a short rest.

[Millstone85]

That doe NOT mention Warlock...That's because the warlock class does not have the Spellcasting feature, but the Pact Magic feature which is different.
If you multiclass but have the Spellcasting feature from only one class, you follow the rules as described in that class.You need not bother with multiclass spell slot calculation at all. Just use the paladin table and the warlock table.


So do I halve the Paladin slots to 2/1 or do I keep them at 4/2?If you were Sorcerer 5 / Paladin 5, you would be a 7th-level multiclass spellcaster (5 + 5/2 rounded down).

As per the multiclass spellcaster table, that would give you 4 1st-level, 3 2nd-level, 3 3rd-level and 1 4th-level spell slots.

But again, as a Warlock 5 / Paladin 5, you are not a multiclass spellcaster.

Yeah, it is a bit weird.

[Escribblings]

No wonder I was confused.

On the face of it, that makes it quite a powerful build too.

Still, that simplifies it, thanks.

[Innocent_bystan]

And what about the cantrips and invocations?

You get access to the same number of cantrips and invocations as if you were a lvl 5 single class warlock.

To further complicate matters: cantrip effects scale with total character level and not class levels. A warlock 1/ whatever 19 gets the same effect as a warlock 20.

[Lombra]

You get access to the same number of cantrips and invocations as if you were a lvl 5 single class warlock.

To further complicate matters: cantrip effects scale with total character level and not class levels. A warlock 1/ whatever 19 gets the same effect as a warlock 20.

And to further confuse everyone: invocations' level requirement only depends on your warlock class' level, not character's level.

[Millstone85]

To further complicate matters: cantrip effects scale with total character level and not class levels. A warlock 1/ whatever 19 gets the same effect as a warlock 20.
And to further confuse everyone: invocations' level requirement only depends on your warlock class' level, not character's level.I would say they got the right idea with invocations, and should have done something similar with cantrips.

[Escribblings]

You get access to the same number of cantrips and invocations as if you were a lvl 5 single class warlock.

To further complicate matters: cantrip effects scale with total character level and not class levels. A warlock 1/ whatever 19 gets the same effect as a warlock 20.
Which makes Eldritch Blast a formidable option then.

How does armour factor in to all of this?

Can the warlock spells/invocations/cantrips be cast while wearing heavy armour?

I know I can use the level 3 warlock spell slots to cast level 1/2 Paladin spells at their higher capabilities.

And vice versa, I can use the Paladin slots to cast any level 1/2 warlock spell.

I suppose the next question is, once attaining level 10 (5/5), what would be the best path to choose. And that will depend on oaths and pacts I think.

[Joe the Rat]

Sucks to be a high elf then, eh? Or whatever the hell you do with Eldritch Knights and Arcane tricksters. Damage scaling on the cantrips keeps them consistent with other damage sources - one die per attack of a fighter at the same level, roughly. Without this, cantrips become less and less useful as you advance.

Think of invocations as class features - because that's really what they are. Instead of having the Barbarian Totem Buffet, or Battlemaster Value Combo, you get Invocations a la Carte.

The problem is that warlocks have some tricks in the invocations that make their signature cantrip some of the best at-will damage in the game. Without that, Eldritch Blast is a slightly better Firebolt. Which is why Warlock 2 is the dip of choice.

[Millstone85]

How does armour factor in to all of this?

Can the warlock spells/invocations/cantrips be cast while wearing heavy armour?
Casting in Armor
Because of the mental focus and precise gestures required for spellcasting, you must be proficient with the armor you are wearing to cast a spell. You are otherwise too distracted and physically hampered by your armor for spellcasting.It is all about proficiency. Spells do not get armor restrictions based on which class you got them from.


Sucks to be a high elf then, eh? Or whatever the hell you do with Eldritch Knights and Arcane tricksters. Damage scaling on the cantrips keeps them consistent with other damage sources - one die per attack of a fighter at the same level, roughly. Without this, cantrips become less and less useful as you advance.That's just the thing. Extra Attack cares about your class level, while a cantrip cares about your character level.

Barbarian 2 / Fighter (EK) 3 ? That's supposed to be like Martial 5 / Mage 1, yet it is the magic that gets the boost. Hardly consistent.

The problem is more obvious with warlock dips, but I am not convinced it starts with Eldritch Blast and its invocations.