Logical Leveling

[DrKosmosis]

The idea of a character leveling up is meant to symbolize the character growing in experience, becoming more skilled in their craft and discovering new abilities based on hours of practice.
However consider this scenario: Your players are hacking and slashing through a dungeons and about halfway through they level up. Hurray! While most of the players simply look through their handbooks to see what their class grants them at the next level, the fighter decides he's simply not versatile enough and decides to multi class and put a level into wizard. Assuming this is a campaign with significant role playing, how on earth do you explain the fighters sudden change of heart from a brainless brute to a intuitive spell caster? Sure it's one thing if the player had planned it from the beginning, and played his character as such, but it's a spur of the moment decision how, as a DM, do you play that off?

"Suddenly you are overcome with a surge of arcane energy, the source of which is unknown" - that's a bit of a cop out

"Out of no where a traveling mage walks through yonder corridor, offering you his book of spells" - what the heck is he doing down here?

Now fighter-wizard may even be one of the easier multi-classes to explain, but what if the barbarian wants a level in bard? The cleric wants to delve a bit into warlock? And the rogue decides to don some plate and put a few levels in paladin?

Any advice? (Again assume this comes as a complete unplanned surprise)

[nickl_2000]

Most players have their character mapped out from the beginning through the level that they will get to in the adventure. Make them have a good reason for in it their background story. It wasn't just "I want to be more powerful" it has to be something else.

One of my players did this. He is a Barbarian who is going to multiclass into Fighter at some point. His background is Entertainer: Gladiator. He states that he learned lots of different fighting styles while he was in Gladiator school but wasn't skilled enough to use them then. He has kept the knowledge of how to do them and now he can finally apply those techniques.



For a Fighter Wizard have them find a spellbook early and the Fighter can make time to study it during his rests. Therefore he is learning through the entire campaign and has finally learned enough to apply his skills. During one of his rests he practices the movement and a shower of sparks fills the air.

[dejarnjc]

Leveling up in general makes no sense. Even just a level 2 fighter going to level 3, becoming an Eldritch Knight, and suddenly knowing spells doesn't really make sense.

Or the fact that a wizard suddenly gains 2 spells upon leveling. Or that a druid suddenly learns how to shapeshift. Or that a bard suddenly knows another class's spells.


This is just a quirk of most RPGs. The only way to logically deal with it is to make leveling up something that is done during downtime or else just do what most people do and ignore the phenomena.

[Lucadibeppo]

I could be wrong and I'm away from book, but I think the explanation is the characters are working towards their new skills during rests. Like an Eldritch Knight or wizard practicing and researching a bit before settling down for the night.
But really it's a game so however you want to fluff it is up to you and your DM.

[some guy]

Just say that the character has been studying for his new class levels in their spare time or before starting adventuring, even if it hasn't been mentioned up until now.

DM: "You've all seen Krognar Axebiter pouring over dusty tomes, muttering eldritch phrases while you were drinking in the tavern. Now you know why."
other players: "Yes, and while we've teased him about it on all those evenings, it seems his diligence has payed off."

or

player: "Did I ever tell you guys I used to play the lute when I was young? I'm thinking about picking it up again."

As long as it's not terribly out of character, I don't mind. I don't expect my players to plan out their entire pc careers. Even abrupt changes can be explained with flashbacks.

[Mortis_Elrod]

If there's a wiz in the party he could have been teaching the fighter or something. Or the fighter could have been watching carefully and practicing on his own, looking over the shoulder of the wizard and then copying a custom spellbook.

[Unoriginal]

how on earth do you explain the fighters sudden change of heart from a brainless brute to a intuitive spell caster?

Fighters don't have to be brainless brutes. In fact, multiclassing as wizard requires above average intelligence. So the fighter simply decided to expand their training in a new domain.


If the fighter was roleplayed as a brainless brute before, then something they encountered made them reconsider their life and realize they should put the mental capacities they have to good use instead of letting it waste away like they did until now.

[N810]

Our DM doesn't use XP,
instead he grants the whole party a level after
some sort of major milestone, like clearing a dungeon,
or finishing a major plot line, a couple of times he also
had us train with a master on order to level up.
(through various skill challenges)

[Vogonjeltz]

Any advice? (Again assume this comes as a complete un planned surprise)

Variant rule in the DMG on page 131: Training to Gain Levels.

The dm can require characters to spend downtime training or studying before they gain the benefits of a new level. Once a character has earned enough experience points to attain a new level, he or she must train for a number of days before gaining any class features associated with the new level.

Training time and costs for various level groupings are indicated on the table provided in the DMG on page 131.

[Knaight]

This is just a quirk of most RPGs. The only way to logically deal with it is to make leveling up something that is done during downtime or else just do what most people do and ignore the phenomena.

Most RPGs don't have levels, and while the rate of incremental skill increase is still often unbelievably fast it's a lot less jarring than levels tend to be.

[The Vanishing Hitchhiker]

Planning ahead and/or learning from party members can lead to some fun scenarios. I have a fighter with a warlock of the tome in the party, but his tome didn't open right away for plot reasons. The warlock and his (talking) tome have a somewhat adversarial relationship. So when it was time for my character to become an eldritch knight at last, we decided she learned her first few spells from idly flipping through through his spellbooks—the unopenable tome, specifically. What's more, she learned spells he doesn't even have... that's what you get for having a smartass fey tome, I guess.

[CaptainSarathai]

Planning ahead and/or learning from party members can lead to some fun scenarios. I have a fighter with a warlock of the tome in the party, but his tome didn't open right away for plot reasons. The warlock and his (talking) tome have a somewhat adversarial relationship. So when it was time for my character to become an eldritch knight at last, we decided she learned her first few spells from idly flipping through through his spellbooks—the unopenable tome, specifically. What's more, she learned spells he doesn't even have... that's what you get for having a smartass fey tome, I guess.

Ugh, talking warlock tomes...
I had one of those once. Not talking, but more like Voldemort's diary from Harry Potter, it would absorb my writing and then write back.
It's first interaction?
Tell me, "Oh, I prepared Exploding Runes this morning" and then flash runes at me. Caused me to yell and throw the book across the room.
Enough of those stupid, "gag humor" pranks, and the DM wondered (and whined) about why I wasn't interacting with my book. He was especially crestfallen when I burned the **** thing to a crisp and spent the time and money to summon a new one.

I just really HATE "intelligent" items in D&D...

[Hrugner]

I treat leveling up more like using an ability you'd previously not been using than gaining a new ability. Occasionally you run into some "final form" nonsense, but for the most part it works well, doesn't slow the game down too much, and doesn't force too much preplanning for the character.

[GPS]

Most players have their character mapped out from the beginning through the level that they will get to in the adventure.

I should really start doing this at some point.


player: "Did I ever tell you guys I used to play the lute when I was young? I'm thinking about picking it up again."

As long as it's not terribly out of character, I don't mind. I don't expect my players to plan out their entire pc careers. Even abrupt changes can be explained with flashbacks.

Man, we gotta get NecroDancer down here! Frequent rapid retcons are his speciality, though his retcons are usually more grandiose in nature.

[RickAllison]

For Druids in particular, the Wild Shape at every level but 2 and with such a flat progression makes me tend to fluff level 1 Druids as injured in some way, that they understand how to transform but have been wounded in such a way/have a mental block from trauma that prevents it until they get some experience under their belts.


For wizards, I tend to have sudden revelations of abilities solved as eureka moments, where the equations finally clicked. EKs/ATs are fairly easy for this if you level up after a dungeon or similar high-difficulty event, as you can merge the sudden power as from tapping into the power in response to the difficulties and being unable to control it until some progress is made.

[Sigreid]

1. Druid leveling up and getting shapeshifting: The stress of adventuring and using his magic in earnest has strengthened his connection to nature and his understanding of it allowing him to shift form.

2. The wizard has been trying to puzzle out a couple of spells in his spare time. Use of his abilities when in peril has honed his understanding and the something clicks. Eureka! He understands the piece he was missing.

3. The fighter, now having seen magic in battle realizes that the flow of the physical world and the flow of the magic world are not as different as he once thought. It's all about rhythm, discipline and focus; just channeling the will through the weave instead of the body. Not too different from his martial skills and tactics at all when you look at the core.

etc.

[mephnick]

Eh it's a game and there's some gamey stuff in it. Not everything needs a roleplay solution.

[GPS]

Eh it's a game and there's some gamey stuff in it. Not everything needs a roleplay solution.
If everything in D&D didn't need a roleplay solution​, half of us would be out of a job!

[Saeviomage]

Retcon it. I doubt you've played out every instant of downtime.

[Slipperychicken]

This is just a quirk of most RPGs. The only way to logically deal with it is to make leveling up something that is done during downtime or else just do what most people do and ignore the phenomena.
This is how dnd used to do it.

If you care about immersion regarding leveling, people should have to go sink downtime into training to achieve their level-ups. As a guideline, I'd say a number of weeks equal to the new experience level. So 1->2 takes two weeks, 2->3 takes three weeks, and so on. And I'd also require them to either find an appropriate trainer (which usually costs money) or spend double the time for training alone. Players naturally have to support themselves during training periods, which costs money. No "ding" for you.

[Knaight]

This is how dnd used to do it.

If you care about immersion regarding leveling, people should have to go sink downtime into training to achieve their level-ups. As a guideline, I'd say a number of weeks equal to the new experience level. So 1->2 takes two weeks, 2->3 takes three weeks, and so on. And I'd also require them to either find an appropriate trainer (which usually costs money) or spend double the time for training alone. Players naturally have to support themselves during training periods, which costs money. No "ding" for you.

The training alone is critical here - an inability to get better at all without training quickly leads to all sorts of bizarre setting implications, starting with how none of the skills the characters display could have been developed

[Slipperychicken]

The training alone is critical here - an inability to get better at all without training quickly leads to all sorts of bizarre setting implications, starting with how none of the skills the characters display could have been developed

Well, someone has to learn things the hard way. And besides, how could I have awesome martial artist hermits otherwise?

[Beaureguard]

This is how dnd used to do it.

If you care about immersion regarding leveling, people should have to go sink downtime into training to achieve their level-ups. As a guideline, I'd say a number of weeks equal to the new experience level. So 1->2 takes two weeks, 2->3 takes three weeks, and so on. And I'd also require them to either find an appropriate trainer (which usually costs money) or spend double the time for training alone. Players naturally have to support themselves during training periods, which costs money. No "ding" for you.

This is similar to the way I've handled it in more RP heavy games. I'd only award XP when the players had a potential gap coming up, not simply at the end of a session. They'd seek out trainers, libraries, sparring partners, or whatever else they felt like they needed to advance.

As a DM I saw two big benefits doing this. First, you introduce a great place to put in a hook. Maybe the cleric needs to travel to a temple in this other city to find an appropriate tutor, or the monk has to travel to the top of a mountain and meditate in the shade of an ancient tree. If we're between adventures, I have a place to put some candy without having to send a messenger up to the party or have them asking questions in a tavern. Second.....designing encounters is a lot easier. My players are level X with Y abilities and they will STAY that way throughout what I have planned. No new ability that I didn't account for coming in to trivialize what I have planned.

It's more of a mixed bag for the players. There's a benefit of better immersion and the con of the fact that we ALL like getting new levels, and this just delays the gratification. Generally it's been well received in more stable groups, but in groups with less regular players (or heavily hack and slash) it hasn't been as popular.