building a dungeon

[Mighty Physche]

So I have tried to use random dungeon generator in the past however they normally make several encounters repetitive with unrealistic a monster encounters. How often are you likely to see Young green and dragons in the same dungeon with out a mother or father. So first off does anyone know of a good random dungeon generator ?

Second, my players are in the desert and are going to come across a "mirage" city. The inhabitants are sand giants, they are protecting the last piece necessary to cure vampirism. Any ideas for a cool initiation ritual or something of that nature to prove my players worthy of entering said dungeon.

Third, when all pieces are gathered shouldn't they have to perform a ritual? I don't want it to be anti-climactic where it's like take two of these and get a good nights rest.

[Fouredged Sword]

The problem with random dungeon generators is that they are, well... random. It's just a series of random room and random encounters strung together without theme or sense. If I want a random dungeon I just roll three-five times on a random encounter table and stick it in a series of rooms.

The truth is, if you want a good dungeon you are going to need a theme and common sense and spend a little elbow grease to make it all work. If you stick to your random generator, only use it as a suggestion until you hit on something to build off of. Those two young adult dragons, they are sisters. They are in different rooms because one stole the other's best goblet and they are having a spat. The zombies in the other room are raised by one of the dragons who fancies herself a necromancer. The other one is much more martial focused and will focus on personal combat in melee. She, on the other hand, commands the Kobolds who set up the traps.

[Mighty Physche]

Yeah that is what I was doing I was just hoping someone knew of a more detailed one. And it didn't generate 2 it made 2 clutches of young dragons fleeing from something stronger, but there was NOTHING stronger in the dungeon.... I digress. So unless someone else knows of a really good generator, anyone want to help with the 2 or 3 question?

[Geddy2112]

As said, random dungeon generators are just algorithms and decent templates to get you started, but that's about it.

I would look into the "5 room dungeon" model(google it). The dungeon can of course have more than 5, but there are 5 key elements to each dungeon
1. Entrance/guardian
2. Puzzle/roleplaying challenge(you can switch 1 and 2 depending on the dungeon)
3. Trick/setback
4. Boss fight
5. Twist/hook for next adventure.

Your second question asks about room 1 or 2. An entrance/guardian or possible puzzle is why other people have not gone to said dungeon, or failed to get inside. The city being a mirage could be defense enough, and perhaps they have to use skills or magic to access it, or it can only be seen at high noon, etc etc etc. Once inside, you can have sand giant guards. For your dungeon, finding the entrance is going to be more of the puzzle/roleplaying challenge, so it makes more sense to do that "room" first. However, you can make the dungeon easy to find and the party has to beat the sand giants in combat. Maybe the door is magically locked with a riddle. Maybe you have to jump into the mirage.

As far as your ritual at the end, that is the twist/hook for the next adventure. Maybe they have all the pieces, but no idea how to use them. Maybe they are incomplete, or there is only enough for one of the players, or it won't work for XYZ reasons. Therein lies the next quest and set of party goals. If this is the end of the campaign you generally wrap things up here, but if not there can always be another mcguffin just over the horizon.

Once you build the 5 major rooms of the dungeon, filling hallways with gelatinous cubes, zombies, spike pits, what have you is just putting on wallpaper and finishing touches.

[Maximum Carnage]

As said, random dungeon generators are just algorithms and decent templates to get you started, but that's about it.

I would look into the "5 room dungeon" model(google it). The dungeon can of course have more than 5, but there are 5 key elements to each dungeon
1. Entrance/guardian
2. Puzzle/roleplaying challenge(you can switch 1 and 2 depending on the dungeon)
3. Trick/setback
4. Boss fight
5. Twist/hook for next adventure.

Your second question asks about room 1 or 2. An entrance/guardian or possible puzzle is why other people have not gone to said dungeon, or failed to get inside. The city being a mirage could be defense enough, and perhaps they have to use skills or magic to access it, or it can only be seen at high noon, etc etc etc. Once inside, you can have sand giant guards. For your dungeon, finding the entrance is going to be more of the puzzle/roleplaying challenge, so it makes more sense to do that "room" first. However, you can make the dungeon easy to find and the party has to beat the sand giants in combat. Maybe the door is magically locked with a riddle. Maybe you have to jump into the mirage.

As far as your ritual at the end, that is the twist/hook for the next adventure. Maybe they have all the pieces, but no idea how to use them. Maybe they are incomplete, or there is only enough for one of the players, or it won't work for XYZ reasons. Therein lies the next quest and set of party goals. If this is the end of the campaign you generally wrap things up here, but if not there can always be another mcguffin just over the horizon.

Once you build the 5 major rooms of the dungeon, filling hallways with gelatinous cubes, zombies, spike pits, what have you is just putting on wallpaper and finishing touches.

I feel like Geddy said mostly what I was thinking, but to further the conversation:

I feel like flavor also goes a long way when developing a dungeon. It sounds like you have the basis of yours down being in the desert with the mirage city. That being said, this is why you want to steer clear of those random dungeon generators. When you roll one of those it may give you 18 rooms, and that's almost a head ache to work with. I like to give each of my rooms personality, maybe by giving a brief description, or through intricate detailing on the medium of play. When you have these HUGE sprawling dungeon, unless you have the time, it becomes tedious to come up with fresh ideas for your rooms, encounters, puzzles, etc.

I'm also a big fan of The Five Room Dungeon, because I think at the end of the day, players would much rather have a memorable dungeons consisting of 5 or 6 rooms, that is rich in detail, and unique in nature. Instead of a massive crawl between randomly generated inconsistency.