Paladin of Slaughter+Blackguard

[ATHATH]

Step 1: Be a Paladin of Slaughter or a Paladin of Tyranny
Step 2: Fall.
Step 3: Become a Blackguard and gain all of those nifty abilities that you get for being a fallen Paladin (Paladins of Slaughter/Tyranny ARE variant Paladins, after all).
Step 4: Receive an Atonement spell and recover your Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter abilities while retaining your Ex-Paladin Blackguard bonuses.
Step 5: Continue advancing as a Blackguard or Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter (or some other class, like Hexblade).

Does this work? Having an aura of -4 to all saves (-6 if I can cram in 4 levels of Hexblade into my build for the Dark Companion ACF) before adding in the effects of the Unseelie Fey template would be pretty nifty.

[Esprit15]

No, because you trade those dice entirely. You become a Paladin of Tyranny 1 / Blackguard X, where is is your level -1. You could regain the one die that you kept, for what good itbwould do you. An extra smite might be useful I guess.

I personally don't allow both Blackguard and variant Paladins in the same game.

[noob]

I do not see anything wrong here.
I hope other people watch this.

[ATHATH]

No, because you trade those dice entirely. You become a Paladin of Tyranny 1 / Blackguard X, where is is your level -1. You could regain the one die that you kept, for what good itbwould do you. An extra smite might be useful I guess.

I personally don't allow both Blackguard and variant Paladins in the same game.
I'm not gonna trade in my Paladin of Slaughter/Tyranny levels- there are some other bonuses that you can get without trading them in.

For reference:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjq37mPvsXTAhWr0FQKHT4ACfUQFggnMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.d20srd.org%2Fsrd%2FprestigeCl asses%2Fblackguard.htm&usg=AFQjCNGScdxBhjOXaataLcBnNmkU57yHcA&sig2=l0z8kFArDqC7HFPYaqYzkg

[ATHATH]

Would the Healing Spirit ACF work with your Blackguard Lay on Hands ability (the one that you get for being a Fallen Paladin of at least 3rd level)?

[DEMON]

Would the Healing Spirit ACF work with your Blackguard Lay on Hands ability (the one that you get for being a Fallen Paladin of at least 3rd level)?

Spirit of healing from the Divine Spirit ACF?

Yes, it mentions "your lay on hands ability". There's nothing that indicates it has to come from Paladin's levels only.

[ATHATH]

Spirit of healing from the Divine Spirit ACF?

Yes, it mentions "your lay on hands ability". There's nothing that indicates it has to come from Paladin's levels only.
Yup.

Hooray for (Blackguard Level*3*CHA mod)'s worth of healing! It ain't much, but it's probably better than a 5th level Paladin's mount.

[The Viscount]

Step 1: Be a Paladin of Slaughter (or a Paladin of Tyranny, if you have the Ordered Chaos feat).
Step 2: Fall.
Step 3: Become a Blackguard and gain all of those nifty abilities that you get for being a fallen Paladin (Paladins of Slaughter/Tyranny ARE variant Paladins, after all).
Step 4: Receive an Atonement spell and recover your Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter abilities while retaining your Ex-Paladin Blackguard bonuses.
Step 5: Continue advancing as a Blackguard or Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter (or some other class, like Hexblade).

Does this work? Having an aura of -4 to all saves (-6 if I can cram in 4 levels of Hexblade into my build for the Dark Companion ACF) would be pretty nifty.

This works just fine. It's possible that you might not even have to fall.
However, the penalty to saves is from paladin of tyranny, not slaughter. I don't see why a paladin of tyranny would need ordered chaos. If you want to go for max debuffs, with a few levels or the right feats you can toss on focalors aura of sadness.

[flappeercraft]

While at it why not also throw in Unseelie fey

[Buufreak]

... Is this concept of build new? I was under the impression that melee with 3x Cha to saves and massive(ish) aura debuff was well known.

[ATHATH]

This works just fine. It's possible that you might not even have to fall.
However, the penalty to saves is from paladin of tyranny, not slaughter. I don't see why a paladin of tyranny would need ordered chaos. If you want to go for max debuffs, with a few levels or the right feats you can toss on focalors aura of sadness.
I thought that Paladin of Slaughter was the CE one that just gave people a piddly -1 to AC.

Blackguard requires an alignment of CE, not just E.

[ATHATH]

... Is this concept of build new? I was under the impression that melee with 3x Cha to saves and massive(ish) aura debuff was well known.
Yes, and I think that I saw this combo in another thread (not one specifically about it, though; it was a reply) while researching it to see if it would work, but I don't think that the Mr. HugePenaltiestoEnemySaves concept (don't forget to add in the Half-Fey template (and the Unseelie Fey template)!) has been combined with this combo before.

[torrasque666]

I thought that Paladin of Slaughter was the CE one that just gave people a piddly -1 to AC.

Blackguard requires an alignment of CE, not just E.

Er... have you looked at Blackguard? It doesn't say Alignment: Chaotic Evil, it says Alignment: Any Evil. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Pathfinder Anti-Paladin?

[ATHATH]

Er... have you looked at Blackguard? It doesn't say Alignment: Chaotic Evil, it says Alignment: Any Evil. Are you sure you're not thinking of the Pathfinder Anti-Paladin?
*Looks again*

Oh. Scrap Ordered Chaos, then.