One of my favorite variants

[tedcahill2]

Player's roll all the dice
Whenever a player uses an ability/casts a spell that allows a saving throw, you have the player roll it instead of the defender.

Player gets a modifier equal to the DC of the spell/ability -10. So spells that normally have a DC 10 + Spell Level + Stat would simply give Spell Level + Stat as a modifier to the casters roll to "attack" their Reflex. The DC for the roll is 11 + the relevant saving throw. So a goblin with a +2 reflex save would have a DC 13 Reflex score.

I find this is more fun for player because it makes them feel like they're in control of whether a saving throw succeeds or not, when in truth the only difference it who rolls the die.

What are some of your favorite variant rules? Or variant class features I guess? I want to stick with published variants and not house rules.

[Gildedragon]

This is super nice at a physical table with players that are paying attention

[ZamielVanWeber]

This is super nice at a physical table with players that are paying attention

Agreed. I do like giving players more control of their rolls. I will try it with a trusted group at some point.

[Inevitability]

I'm considering using Test-Based Prerequisites (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/testBasedPrerequisites.htm), but I feel like there's going to be players who'll abuse it.

It is a reasonable tool for improving caster/martial balance, though. The caster PrCs typically have very specific requirements that are difficult to obtain before a certain level, while one could conceivably fulfill some of the martial tests at level 1.

[Crake]

I'm considering using Test-Based Prerequisites (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/testBasedPrerequisites.htm), but I feel like there's going to be players who'll abuse it.

It is a reasonable tool for improving caster/martial balance, though. The caster PrCs typically have very specific requirements that are difficult to obtain before a certain level, while one could conceivably fulfill some of the martial tests at level 1.

I've been unknowingly using that variant myself! :smalltongue: If a character meets a strong story requirement to enter a prestige class, I let them enter it while ignoring the entry requirements, though regular entry also remains a valid option.

Currently though I'm running a game with a bunch of variants. Its an E6 game, using the vitaility/wounds system (with the inclusion of the normal dying state, up to negative your constitution modifier, ala PF), class defense bonus, and armor as DR (with some minor changes for the wounds/vitality system added on by yours truly) from unearthed arcana, while also using the no magic item, and staggered leveling variants from pathfinder unchained.

All that combined creates a low-no magic, gritty heroism system where the players can recover from a serious fight where several players were near-death in just a matter of a few hours, while giving a smooth sense of progression throughout the whole 6 levels (staggered leveling essentially splits your levels into 25% chunks, making each level have 4 stages of progression, turning 6 levels into 24 "stages"), while also giving players an extra boost in survivability, with an additional buffer equal to their constitution score as wound points, as well as a decent little bit of damage reduction from their armor, which so far has already saved one of my players from some rats, since the rats couldn't overcome her DR 1/- from her leather armor while she had been brought down to her wounds :smalltongue:

As an aside, I treat all the level based bonus that replace the magic items as mundane boosts, making it both a boon and a bane. The players cannot have the bonuses suppressed, however their weapons, despite being +1 to attack and damage, do not overcome DR/magic. This achieves 2 points, it makes DR/magic relevant again, but also gives classes that have a means of overcoming it something special. In my game in particular this means the monk can overcome DR/magic where most others could not, and the samurai (OA version, since we're running an asian themed game this time around) will be able to do so as well, when he enchants his ancestral daisho.

E6 also serves to make a lot of feats that are generally considered trash tier because of their uselessness at higher levels, as well as their taxing requirements in terms of feat chains, suddenly seem quite viable. For example, two of my players are actually looking toward getting spring attack, since they're only getting 1 attack per round at level 6 anyway (medium bab classes), and the added maneuverability gives them the advantage over a full bab class, who loses out on the ability to full attack each round, since the characters can use spring attack to retreat without provoking attacks of opportunity, and still move at full speed unlike if they were to tumble away.

[Fouredged Sword]

I at one point did this for a M&M game, but we also used dice we used cards (1-10 red= 1-10, 1-10 black = 11-20, remove face cards) and rather than roll for each event we dealt hands of 5 cards that you had to use all of before drawing a new hand.

Out of combat we drew off the top of the deck.

It was tons of fun. Yes, the players had insane luck compared to a game based entirely on die rolls. Their crits came right when they would do the most good, but that wasn't the a bug, rather a feature. The genera is Super Hero Fiction, so the ability to spout out a one liner and toss out a crit card was hella fun for player engagement. It also meant that, as DM, I didn't have to fiddle with any die rolls or anything like that. I have a roller running on my laptop for out of combat stuff I wanted to hide form the players, but that was it.

[martixy]

I'm considering using Test-Based Prerequisites (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/testBasedPrerequisites.htm), but I feel like there's going to be players who'll abuse it.

It is a reasonable tool for improving caster/martial balance, though. The caster PrCs typically have very specific requirements that are difficult to obtain before a certain level, while one could conceivably fulfill some of the martial tests at level 1.

I love the idea of that variant, but so far I've yet to deal with any class requirements that aren't fixed when you eliminate all race and alignment requirements. Perhaps because I happen to agree with the general concept of a "prestige class" and am less likely to consider the notion of early entry.

[Buufreak]

I'm considering using Test-Based Prerequisites (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/testBasedPrerequisites.htm), but I feel like there's going to be players who'll abuse it.

It is a reasonable tool for improving caster/martial balance, though. The caster PrCs typically have very specific requirements that are difficult to obtain before a certain level, while one could conceivably fulfill some of the martial tests at level 1.

... This is a thing?! This is officially going into action at my tables. DS, always to the rescue. You will always be DS to me! NOSTALGIA!!!

[tedcahill2]

... This is a thing?! This is officially going into action at my tables. DS, always to the rescue. You will always be DS to me! NOSTALGIA!!!

I generally use this variant already, however I still require the prereqs in addition to the test. The prereqs aren't there only because it's a minimum representation of what the class should be capable of, but also to control the level at which entry is permitted.

Even if you go from prereq to straight tests, you should still level the level requirement in place (i.e. if 8 ranks in Hide are required the minimum level for entry is 6, since 8 ranks can't be achieved until level 5)

[Ken Murikumo]

I posted this idea a few months ago. I didn't much feedback (and i the little i did was kinda negative), but my players thought it was a cool idea, so we tried it anyways:

Anyways: The core of this system is that you don't roll damage die, instead you take average rounding up (d4 is 3, d6 is 4, and so on). You would also calculate minimum and maximum damage on things. The end result would be like the following: a martial using a greatsword with an 18 strength would have damages like 6 for minimum (poor), 12 for average (normal), and 16 for maximum (great).

Now, for what to do with those number:
Instead of getting a flat +10 to your AC, you instead roll a d20. So a normal attack becomes an opposed roll. If the attacker just manages to beat the enemies AC he deals minimum (poor) damage. If the attack is more than 5 over the enemies AC he deals average (normal) damage. If it's over 10, then maximum (great) damage.

Spells will follow the same rule, but for instead of AC, it's saving throws. Severely failing a saving throw will deal max damage. just barely failing it will yield minimum damage.

So far it's working pretty well. I added a system that allowed them to mod their weapons (very similar to fallout 4) and they can add up to 2 additional die to any weapon (assuming they have the money). With this system, weapons with 4+ die have their damages pre-calculated, so combat runs very smoothly.

[tedcahill2]

The core of this system is that you don't roll damage die, instead you take average rounding up (d4 is 3, d6 is 4, and so on). You would also calculate minimum and maximum damage on things. The end result would be like the following: a martial using a greatsword with an 18 strength would have damages like 6 for minimum (poor), 12 for average (normal), and 16 for maximum (great).

Now, for what to do with those number:
Instead of getting a flat +10 to your AC, you instead roll a d20. So a normal attack becomes an opposed roll. If the attacker just manages to beat the enemies AC he deals minimum (poor) damage. If the attack is more than 5 over the enemies AC he deals average (normal) damage. If it's over 10, then maximum (great) damage.

Spells will follow the same rule, but for instead of AC, it's saving throws. Severely failing a saving throw will deal max damage. just barely failing it will yield minimum damage.

I'd be interested in revisiting this topic if you want to make a new thread about it.


I added a system that allowed them to mod their weapons (very similar to fallout 4) and they can add up to 2 additional die to any weapon (assuming they have the money). With this system, weapons with 4+ die have their damages pre-calculated, so combat runs very smoothly.

I'd be interested in reading more about this as well.

[Ken Murikumo]

i can start a new topic for the opposed roll & damage system in the next few days (gonna be busy after work). You can start it without me, if you want.

as for the weapon mods; i'm still working out a few kinks, but its working pretty much as intended. I have a word document with all the mods and even a plethora of modern guns to supplement the old muskets from pathfinder. When i can afford the time, ill figure out how to make a google doc so i can share the wealth

[Grod_The_Giant]

I at one point did this for a M&M game, but we also used dice we used cards (1-10 red= 1-10, 1-10 black = 11-20, remove face cards) and rather than roll for each event we dealt hands of 5 cards that you had to use all of before drawing a new hand.

Out of combat we drew off the top of the deck.

It was tons of fun. Yes, the players had insane luck compared to a game based entirely on die rolls. Their crits came right when they would do the most good, but that wasn't the a bug, rather a feature. The genera is Super Hero Fiction, so the ability to spout out a one liner and toss out a crit card was hella fun for player engagement. It also meant that, as DM, I didn't have to fiddle with any die rolls or anything like that. I have a roller running on my laptop for out of combat stuff I wanted to hide form the players, but that was it.
Hmm. Kind of a neat idea, though I can see it being frustrating if you wind up with a crappy hand.

[Fouredged Sword]

Hmm. Kind of a neat idea, though I can see it being frustrating if you wind up with a crappy hand.

Yeah, a little, but it is sorta like rolling that random 1, except you have a lot less of a chance to roll badly because with a 5 card hand you have a good chance to have at least a good card.

And you burn through that hand FAST. It was pretty common for a player to burn through a hand a round. With the players rolling everything it takes two cards to make an attack (Attack roll and toughness save)

We went through cards so fast that each player played with two decks and we used a card shuffler to shuffle the offhand deck as it would be needed faster than you would expect.

And the other interesting thing about cards over dice. Cards and dice are both random and have the same randomness, but in cards it is forced. By the time you play though your deck you will have exactly two criticals and two 1's. You cannot get more than 2 1's in a hand. Once you see those two ones you know they are gone until you get to your next deck.

The reason I loved the system was it was FAST. Players just threw out cards like card sharks and the game didn't slow down for an instant.