Dumb paladin, or stumbling paladin?

[Ohdin]

So my DM has allowed us to roll characters using 4D6 dropping the lowest. And we can reroll as many times as we want, however if we reroll we have to reroll all stats. Well I rolled a 18,16,17,13,5,16. I'm playing a shield dwarf so I will have these stats: Str18, Dex?, Con18, Int?, Wis17, Cha18. Where should I put my 13 and 5?

[MrWesson22]

Dumb. 1. For RP reasons. And 2. Because dex save is more important and common than int.

[King539]

Dumb. 1. For RP reasons. And 2. Because dex save is more important and common than int.

You'll regret that first intellect devourer you meet.:smalltongue:

[Ohdin]

I don't want too reroll these stats as I have 4 good stats and regular stat and dump stat

[Nettlekid]

Dumb Paladin is too much of an undeserved cliche. The cliche that Paladins are stupid exists because Int is a common dump stat for the otherwise MAD Paladin, and yet somehow it persists as though Paladins deserve to be mentally deficient. Since you're playing a Dwarf I recommend going a low-Dex route, not portraying it as stumbling and fumbling but just having no agility at all. Not at all limber, slow to react, high jumps an inch off the ground, but is a formidable wall of metal that doesn't need to act quick: He plants himself between Evil and his allies and becomes an unbreakable barrier. He is a Shield Dwarf, a shield of a Dwarf. Don't make him an idiot.

[Zman]

Stumblin, I can't stand playing a dumb character.

Mechanically, ehh, eat the Fireball till you get Cha to saves.

[GPS]

Dumb. Good for the trope, good for RP, good for the array. Int is a fairly standard pally dump stat, even though you're not going to need dex as much due to heavy armor. Sometimes playing an idiot can be fun, it's all about what you make of the situation and what you bring to the character.

[MrWesson22]

Less serious answer. Int dump stat because RPing a dumb character comes naturally when you're drunk and/or stoned.

[Honest Tiefling]

Go with intelligence and roleplay being cursed, your mind being foggy and unable to remember details or facts...Until you reach 4th level and make yourself a little less dumb.

[scalyfreak]

Dumb Paladin is too much of an undeserved cliche. The cliche that Paladins are stupid exists because Int is a common dump stat for the otherwise MAD Paladin, and yet somehow it persists as though Paladins deserve to be mentally deficient. Since you're playing a Dwarf I recommend going a low-Dex route, not portraying it as stumbling and fumbling but just having no agility at all. Not at all limber, slow to react, high jumps an inch off the ground, but is a formidable wall of metal that doesn't need to act quick: He plants himself between Evil and his allies and becomes an unbreakable barrier. He is a Shield Dwarf, a shield of a Dwarf. Don't make him an idiot.

This.

Your character has lived with that low stat his entire life, and as a dwarf, he's more than able to compensate for a lack of quickness and agility with his superior strength and durability. Picture the dwarf warriors from the Lord of the Rings - the books, not the movies! - and give him a heavy axe and some serious heavy armor.

Then take side bets on how long it takes for someone at the table to give you paladin the nickname "Tank".

[Grod_The_Giant]

Dumb Paladin is too much of an undeserved cliche. The cliche that Paladins are stupid exists because Int is a common dump stat for the otherwise MAD Paladin, and yet somehow it persists as though Paladins deserve to be mentally deficient. Since you're playing a Dwarf I recommend going a low-Dex route, not portraying it as stumbling and fumbling but just having no agility at all. Not at all limber, slow to react, high jumps an inch off the ground, but is a formidable wall of metal that doesn't need to act quick: He plants himself between Evil and his allies and becomes an unbreakable barrier. He is a Shield Dwarf, a shield of a Dwarf. Don't make him an idiot.
Agreed. Don't be clumsy. Be a stone.

[Kane0]

Take that hit to Dex. It's more Dwarf-like and more interesting to play being as quick as a brick than as smart as one.

[Squiddish]

I have to agree with stumbling. It leads to much better RP, and allows a level of planning otherwise unjustifiable.

[hamiltond465]

Agreed with the hit to dex. Dumb as a rock is fun to play for a few sessions, but with those stats there is no way you're getting him killed before the campaign ends.

[Corran]

If it is a comic-relief type of campaign, then dump int.

Generally, dex is more important than int, but if you cant bring yourself play, but I guess it would be more memorable to go with the low dex and a pegleg.

ps: Btw, change your stats around a bit. Do this:
STR 18, DEX ?, CON 19, INT ?, WIS 16, CHA 18.
Having an odd wisdom wont help you, but with an odd con you can take resilient con.

ps2: If you go with the low dex, you might want to consider taking alert.

[Lombra]

The true best is: dump strength, go with light armor and use shield and rapier, the only thing that will bother you is carry weight, but not having a full-plate to rely on frees many pounds. Alternatively, if you are already settled among those two options, the most optimal is dumb paladin, but a goofy dwarf paladin seems like a lot more funny to rolepay.

[Arkhios]

Dumb. 1. For RP reasons. And 2. Because dex save is more important and common than int.

YAWN!

Dumbadin, Paladunce, or whatever you want to call it, is so overused cliché it isn't even fun anymore.

I'd take dexterity instead, just because for once, it would be great to see actually reasonably intelligent paladin, who is just a little clumsy. Big deal (not!)

So what if your initiative is a bit low? Take Alert feat. As a bonus, you can't be surprised ever again, as long as you're conscious.
So what if your Dex save is a bit low? Take resilient dexterity if you really think it's a problem. Although, at 6th level forward, your charisma bonus more than makes up for the penalty in that save, and it might not be that necessary to waste a feat on it. A feat you can take only once and that would be far more usable for Constitution instead.

You're a paladin, and you're supposed to have, and you have, high strength. There's absolutely no need to have a dexterity bonus since you're more than likely to use heavy armor anyway, which doesn't care how high or low your dex modifier is, in regards to your AC.

Plus, as others have said, dwarf paladin makes a lot more sense as lacking any agility. If you want to, you could introduce yourself as a "dwarven defender" type of character. Traditionally, dwarven defenders are immobile walls of metal and flesh through which no threat to their allies can go.

[Mhl7]

What I would do: Dump DEX.

Optimal mechanical (also super boring) choice: Dump INT.

What you should do: decide what you want to play. Do you feel more comfortable roleplaying a dumb or a clumsy character?

[Spiritchaser]

The true best is: dump strength, go with light armor and use shield and rapier, the only thing that will bother you is carry weight, but not having a full-plate to rely on frees many pounds. Alternatively, if you are already settled among those two options, the most optimal is dumb paladin, but a goofy dwarf paladin seems like a lot more funny to rolepay.

If it were me, I'd totally agree, dump strength and go dexadin, dex pally is just every kind of amazing.

That said, if it's got to be dex or int, imagine you have a great plan... But you can't suggest it? You've figured out that the Lord marshal actually started this whole thing 200years ago, and has been playing everyone for idiots ever since... Except you're one of those idiots, guess you'll need to keep being played...

I can imagine dumped int for a one shot, but I wouldn't do it for long!

[djreynolds]

Sound awful and overbearing... but I make clerics and paladin take religion as a skill... shouldn't they.

Crazy as it sounds, I would put that low score in dex and grab resilient dex. Coupled with aura of protection.... your dex is now covered and you can afford it with those stats. And with a max charisma and good con save is good enough... its covered.

Beholders suck, disintegrate sucks when you are the recipient

[Master O'Laughs]

Dump Dex and you can treat it like he has arthritis in his joints decreasing his mobility.

[Terdarius]

Dump Dex.

This dwarf is as the mountain he lived in. The mountain does not need to move to avoid the storm, it simply weathers it.
Through sheer force of will blessed on him by his deity he stands for his believes and does not dodge... anything.
He approaches all situations similarly headstrong and unmovable from his believes and motivations.
Completely blunt and to the point in conversations and never takes no for an answer.

Sounds like a fun character to play honestly. :)

[Waazraath]

I agree with what a lot of others have said: dump dex. It really isn't needed for a paladin, especially not with your other ability scores. Fail a dex save, get damage, who cares with an 18 con? Besides, with your paladin aura you stand a chance of not failing it in the first place, especially with things like inspiration, bless and/or bardic inspiration in play. The only thing is your initiative is low, well, too bad. Since you are slow, it isn't that bad that the monsters took their first turn walking up to you, to close the distance. And, again as has been mentioned: dex paladin is great as well (played one myself, very effective and fun). Though str 5 is a bit much, to be honest, don't know if that's enough for a studded leather, rapier and shield.

[NiklasWB]

Dump Dex.

This dwarf is as the mountain he lived in. The mountain does not need to move to avoid the storm, it simply weathers it.
Through sheer force of will blessed on him by his deity he stands for his believes and does not dodge... anything.
He approaches all situations similarly headstrong and unmovable from his believes and motivations.
Completely blunt and to the point in conversations and never takes no for an answer.

Sounds like a fun character to play honestly. :)

^ This, so much. Especially for a dwarf this makes so much sense and would be totally badass. Make him use his axe as a walking stick and give him a limp from a tough-won battle in his past. You can even take this further and take the Sentinel feat to show just how much of a 'stand your ground' character he is. I can even see Dwarves having developed a certain specialized battle style devoted to standing your ground and letting your weapon be the only thing that moves (see the item Dwarven Plate for example).

[Galadhrim]

If it were me, I'd totally agree, dump strength and go dexadin, dex pally is just every kind of amazing.

That said, if it's got to be dex or int, imagine you have a great plan... But you can't suggest it? You've figured out that the Lord marshal actually started this whole thing 200years ago, and has been playing everyone for idiots ever since... Except you're one of those idiots, guess you'll need to keep being played...

I can imagine dumped int for a one shot, but I wouldn't do it for long!

I don't agree with this. If you figure something out as a player, you can have your character contribute to the group by helping it be figured out in game, even if you have a low int mod. You just have to be more creative in the way you do it. You certainly do not have to sit there and be duped forever even though you've figured out what is going on. That is no fun for anyone. Yes, this character with 5 int would not be saying, "aha, I've deduced the problem" but they could use wisdom (his score is massive). Playing a character that is dumb and doesn't contribute would be terrible, but you don't have to play a low int character that way. Forest Gump accomplished a lot in his life time

[ZorroGames]

Dexterity "physical agility, reflexes, balance, poise"

Intelligence "Mental acuity, information, recal, analytical skill"

Since I have well over 50% played OD&D dwarf melee types including fighting clerics I say let the others do the thinking. Stand in the line, weapon ready to bust some chops, kill your opponents, and protect the guys who make it possible for you to that (casters of all kinds.)

Dump IN, you don't have to be dumb or stupid just slow. You dislike Soduku, you don't get into debates, you have clear black and whites views on "enemies" - smash them, let the casters blast them to death, let the casters talk them to death (but only when you a roaring fire, rare meat on the bone, and something strong to drink.)

Nuances are for those who don't have axes, maces, and swords. "Gotta kill them all" is a dwarfen view on Pokémon.

[Spiritchaser]

I admit high wis/low int is tricky, but I don't think it's fair to ignore the limitations.

He's very perceptive, but can't put the pieces together... There are places that works, where you need wis:

Todd Hockney is lying

There are places that you need int

Someone set us up here. It had to be someone who could find out what actually happened with that jewel heist and track us here. We have a major enemy, one we don't know about.

There are places you need both

This man is far too smart to fit all the parts of his story, and has more guts than he's letting the cops see. In so much as he's letting us see the truth, he was everywhere and knew everything... Oh No... He's the Kaiser!

[MadBear]

I think both are equally viable.

The Dex side has made some great arguments for going with low Dex.

I will point out that even though a low intelligence Paladin is a common cliche in general, that means nothing, if it isn't a common cliche in your group. If your groups never had the "dumb warrior" type, it can be a fun character to play, and I'd say go with it. Don't let the fact that a bunch of old grognards have seen this a bunch stop you from playing it, if it's new for you. (I count myself within those ranks, and personally having seen a ton of low-intelligence warrior character, I wouldn't play it, but back when I was younger they were hillarious and fun to play.)

[GlenSmash!]

Either way is fine.

What do consider essential to your character, going earlier in Initiative order and constantly having to argue with your table about whether or not your character should know something (may not apply at all tables, bu definitely applies at some) or going Later in Initiative, and not ever having that come up?

[Dudu]

I'm on the dex dump side.

But that's because I never play a dumb character. I just don't like it. Hate to roleplay someone dumb.
Also, if you, the player, has some very interesting idea in combat, some DMs might rule that your character couldn't think of it because he is dumb. Or maybe you have a very persuasive point in a diplomacy check, but your character doesn't because, again, he is dumb.

Meanwhile, if you have low Dex, you're just more dwarf yet. Eat dem fireballs. If you grab Oath of Ancients, you'll be even more qualified to eat all those fireballs anyway.

[JackPhoenix]

Dump IN, you don't have to be dumb or stupid just slow. You dislike Soduku, you don't get into debates, you have clear black and whites views on "enemies" - smash them, let the casters blast them to death, let the casters talk them to death (but only when you a roaring fire, rare meat on the bone, and something strong to drink.

Int 7-8 is slow. Int 5? You're now dumber than trolls or apes (although D&D apes seems more like apes from Tarzan than real apes).

Low Dex fits dwarves better, I won't repeat artuments other people have used. Just a note about initiative: as it is cyclical, high initiative only matters in first round

[furby076]

If you choose to dump Int, and thats fine, you dont have to be a walking vegetable. A 6 int doesnt mean you dont know anything, it just means you dont know much. Remember, many npcs have low int but are deadly. Just pick a few things, per your background that u know, and shove your finger in your nose for the rest.
For example, my paladin got 6 int (dm raised it to 8 cause he refused to let me be as smart as my steed). So, my character gets bored when the spell casters talk, or when it comes to listening to someone decipher something. However, my character was raised by a noble family, and his mom and grandmom were clerics. He, was also sent to military school to learn tactics. So when it comes to tactics, he is awesome. He knows a decent amount of nobility stuff because he grew up around it. Since his mom and grand mom were clerics, plus they did force him to take some religious classes, on occasion he knows stuff about gods. I let him roll for religion and nobility, but nothing else....he still has an 8, so suffers penalty while rolling.
I am fine with this, and have lots of fun.

[djreynolds]

So my DM has allowed us to roll characters using 4D6 dropping the lowest. And we can reroll as many times as we want, however if we reroll we have to reroll all stats. Well I rolled a 18,16,17,13,5,16. I'm playing a shield dwarf so I will have these stats: Str18, Dex?, Con18, Int?, Wis17, Cha18. Where should I put my 13 and 5?

Honestly, wherever you want.

Aura of protection will help out.

1. Are you big on having resilient con? Do you need it with aura of protection and an 18-20 con score?
2. Resilient dex is a viable feat. Resilient int is a viable feat.
3. You have 5 ASI
4. You can always place actual points in your lowest score

5. Aura of protection is +4, resilient dex gives you a 6 dex score.... +4 +6 (up to)-2= +8 dex save

6. Its easier to role play with an injury to your leg or back.... than an injury to your brain. 5 intelligence is silly to play, but could be explained that you fought an intellect devourer.

[Dappershire]

A lot of arguments seem to explain their choice by saying "for RP reasons", but if you really want to choose your 5 stat for RP...put it in Strength.
Boom. Mic drop.
I don't really know how bad this idea is, but do it anyways. Why not, right?

[djreynolds]

A lot of arguments seem to explain their choice by saying "for RP reasons", but if you really want to choose your 5 stat for RP...put it in Strength.
Boom. Mic drop.
I don't really know how bad this idea is, but do it anyways. Why not, right?

I hear you, of all the stats its the easiest, as dex for attack is viable.

But for the OP, a 6 strength... well an eagle has a 6 in strength.

I think perhaps just mentally for the player, a 6 in dex is easier to comprehend.

But a 6 in strength for roll or role play is easily explained that an undead creature strength drained you as a youth and you never recovered. This creates an interesting PC mountain dwarf paladin of vengeance. Perhaps even he took his family greatsword and had a blacksmith fix it into a rapier.

[Dappershire]

But a 6 in strength for roll or role play is easily explained that an undead creature strength drained you as a youth and you never recovered. This creates an interesting PC mountain dwarf paladin of vengeance. Perhaps even he took his family greatsword and had a blacksmith fix it into a rapier.

Well sure, you could go the necro route. I figured he wouldn't be the first sick, weak child born that way. Imagine the actions of the parents. Maybe drop him off with the temple, in hopes that their God could save their boy before he becomes too weak to breath.
I just figured some anti-norm options could be on the table. He could go with a glass cannon, and drop Con (*gasp*).

[djreynolds]

Well sure, you could go the necro route. I figured he wouldn't be the first sick, weak child born that way. Imagine the actions of the parents. Maybe drop him off with the temple, in hopes that their God could save their boy before he becomes too weak to breath.
I just figured some anti-norm options could be on the table. He could go with a glass cannon, and drop Con (*gasp*).

There is another thread about a low dex and str paladin, it can all work. Magic initiate druid for shillelagh could help with attack.

It actually creates really good role play. And I like the idea of low con score or how about a low charisma. Charisma is a stat you would up end placing ASI in anyhow. So as he levels up his charisma would get better as he is "in-tune" more with his oath.

Low charisma at first because he grudgingly accepts his oath at first, his other stats are so good he could throw all the ASI into charisma

And a low strength, 5 ASI could easily make that a respectable 15 at some point. Think Ephialtes from 300

[Ohdin]

With all this I choose dex because Dwarf being a mountain sounds reasonable. Next question what do I multi class into? Fighter seems like the right choice but which archetype? Sorc/lock sounds fun to increase smite uses and I could use shield too. "you get a smite, you get a smite, you all get a smite!!!!" Im trying to plan future character lvls and since I'm going oath of ancients so it won't be till about lvl7 so I can get my two auras.

[Citan]

So my DM has allowed us to roll characters using 4D6 dropping the lowest. And we can reroll as many times as we want, however if we reroll we have to reroll all stats. Well I rolled a 18,16,17,13,5,16. I'm playing a shield dwarf so I will have these stats: Str18, Dex?, Con18, Int?, Wis17, Cha18. Where should I put my 13 and 5?
Hi!

Honestly, pick either one of INT and DEX as you wish.
With that high stats, you will have plenty of ASI to spend on feats.

So...
If you are playing a sword and board paladin, I'd suggest putting the 5 in Dexterity. Then you can take Resilient: Dexterity (+1, + proficiency) and Shield Master (+2 to dex saves). You will end with a reasonable save, since Shield Master negates the -2 from the 6 DEX.
In fact you will end with a pretty good save, because you will have proficiency + Aura of Protection. And the other benefit of Shield Master will further reduce the total damage you take by nullifying the "half-damage on successful save" effect that many spells have.

If you are playing a two-hander, I suggest putting the 5 in Intelligence, taking the Observant feat if you want to even it to 6, otherwise stacking on your strengths with GWM, Mage Slayer (to slay casters that try to target your INT XD) and possibly Mobile/Sentinel/Lucky.

[Herobizkit]

Depending on how patient you are, you could pick up the Resilient feat come level 4 (to up your Dex to 6 and add Proficiency to your Dex save) and Shield Master come level 8 (to give you 'kind of' a chance to avoid damage via Dex-based attacks). This is really throwing good feats after one bad stat, but it could be a hilarious character RP arc.

"I come from a long line of Dwarven Gladiators (alt form of Entertainer). Problem is, my feet never seem to go where they want, so I just turtle up and hope I can hit them more than they hit me." Gives you Acrobatics and Performance as proficiencies (and, of course, you will be slightly less-bad at Acrobatics, but you should try it as often as possible). You could probably swap the Disguise kit for some other kit more befitting a Gladiator (maybe an Herbalism kit - you make your own home remedies for all your beatings).

[MeeposFire]

I prefer being smarter than being less clumsy but that is not an optimization choice but rather how I like to play.