Best Druid Land?

[Sans.]

What Land has the best spells for a Druid?

[Gastronomie]

Well, that's quite a broad question. In fact I think it's impossible to give a single answer...

Yes, it's impossible. Now shut up and do the impossible.Uh... okay. At least, I'll try.

I have played a Swamp druid before (a sort of young, semi-evil witch-like character), and in a campaign where the DM was a nice guy who knows what he's doing. He gave us many situations where our niche abilities became very useful, such as an encounter where Water Walk became overpowered, and apart from that, I was able to utilize Darkness in many situations, both in and out of combat (among them making an enemy attempting to be Tarzan fall to his death). Stinking Cloud was also used in a city session to get enemies out of their hideout and beat them to a pulp.
But most of these are rather niche situations that are more about creativity and DM cooperation. Honestly speaking, I don't think Swamp is the most combat-optimized option.

People I have played with before have used Coast and Underdark Druids.
Coast was pretty neat, utilizing Mirror Image and Misty Step for protection, but as you can see they don't have attack spells. The Coast Druid I played with used the above two to maintain concentration on Conjure Animals, and didn't rely on himself for damage.
Underdark was definitely powerful. Web and Greater Invisibility were both encounter-changing spells, and when needed, they also have an (albeit bit late) attack option in the form of Cloudkill.

I just looked up the lists in PHB, but overall I think Underdark is the best option, optimization-wise.

[Arkhios]

Gastronomie beat me with an answer to your question, but if "best" is defined with non-druid spells, overall the best one is Underdark Circle with 6 non-druid spells, second being Grassland Circle with 5 non-druid spells, and third being Desert Circle with 4. The rest have either 2 or 3 spells outside the usual spectrum of druid spells, which I'd consider "sub-optimal". (4 out of 8 is 50%, which is still pretty alright in my honest opinion).

here's a detailed list of spells not included in Druid's normal spell list:

Arctic Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 2
Slow
Cone of Cold

Coast Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 2
Mirror Image
Misty Step

Desert Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 4
Blur
Silence
Create food and water
Hallucinatory terrain

Forest Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 2
Spider Climb
Divination

Grassland Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 5
Invisibility
Daylight
Haste
Divination
Dream

Mountain Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 3
Spider Climb
Lightning Bolt
Passwall

Swamp Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 3
Darkness
Melf's Acid Arrow
Stinking Cloud

Underdark Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 6
Spider Climb
Web
Gaseous Form
Stinking Cloud
Greater Invisibility
Cloudkill

On hindsight, though, damagewise, the best Circle would probably be either Arctic Circle (Cone of Cold: 60-foot cone 8d8+1d8 per higher level slot, up to 12d8, on average 54 damage), and second best being Mountain Circle (Lightning Bolt: 100-foot line 8d6+1d6 per higher level slot, up to 13d6, on average ~45 damage); Many Circles has Insect Plague, which deals on average ~49 damage, but since it's already in druid's spell list, I wouldn't count that.

[Socratov]

personally I think that the druid has a very solid spell list with some blasting (though direct single target attack options are a bit rare), loads of utility and save-or-suck spells.

What the standard druid lacks is short range telefort, or as I'd like to call them: 'OH-FECES!-buttons'

That's what drew me to coast: it gets misty step which is a very strong bonus action spell and can really help you along in a sticky situation. The fact that it is always prepared makes sure you will always have that spell and can't forget to prepare it.

[Specter]

In combat, I'd say Coast, if only because their exclusive spells cover a land druid's main weaknesses: AC (Mirror Image) and mobility (Misty Step).

[JellyPooga]

I like Underdark myself; Web is great and I have a soft spot for Gaseous Form. Then at 4th and 5th, Greater Invisibility and Cloudkill are both very effective boosts to the already formidable Druid list.

[Sans.]

Hmm. I think, after reading all your posts and some reflection, Coast is actually the best. Sure, Underdark gives some cool spells, but the good ones are mostly what Druid is already good at: controlling with a bit of blasting, with a distinct lack of defensive buffs.

[Drackolus]

Aaaah, but in a party with more martials and no wizards or sorcerers, I think you'll find Grassland to be excellent.
Also consider that spells aren't necessarily better because it gives you more access; I actually consider the Life Cleric domain as one of the best lists for that class, despite offering absolutely no spells the cleric doesn't already get. What it does give is a bunch of spells that any cleric likely wants to memorize, therefor freeing up the cleric go pick other also great cleric spells, or have more freedom to pick up niche spells as you need them, as opposed to having them eating up precious memorization slots even when you don't.
All that being said, the underdark list has a lot of strong spells. Misty step is one of my favorites though, so I am somewhat partial to coast.

[Foxhound438]

the best one is the one with the spells you like the most.

I know, that's not good as a "optimization general answer", but... I wouldn't bother taking underdark, just out of personal taste in spells. None of the spells they get are things I would particularly want to do as a dedicated caster, or at least couldn't replicate the benefits of with something else, with the only exception being greater invisibility- but even there, you're not going to benefit too much from this, so it's better used to buff your melee ally, and at that point you probably want haste 9 times out of 10.

Note also that it's entirely possible that you want more spells off of the druid list than you could naturally take, in which case it's fine that a given circle gives you something technically redundant- not sure how often this would be an issue, but with that in mind taking forest as your circle is entirely fine. You don't necessarily stand out from other druids, but nonetheless you're a full caster with partial slot recovery on short rests with only 2 fewer spells than a cleric would have. even if those are all druid spells, it's still pretty good.

[Socratov]

Aaaah, but in a party with more martials and no wizards or sorcerers, I think you'll find Grassland to be excellent.
Also consider that spells aren't necessarily better because it gives you more access; I actually consider the Life Cleric domain as one of the best lists for that class, despite offering absolutely no spells the cleric doesn't already get. What it does give is a bunch of spells that any cleric likely wants to memorize, therefor freeing up the cleric go pick other also great cleric spells, or have more freedom to pick up niche spells as you need them, as opposed to having them eating up precious memorization slots even when you don't.
All that being said, the underdark list has a lot of strong spells. Misty step is one of my favorites though, so I am somewhat partial to coast.
I agree, an that is what makes me want coast: it has those spells you will need in a jiffy and otherwise won't prepare. Underwater passage in a dungeon requiring 15minutes of hold breath? Water breathing is your lvl 3 circle spell. Need to cross a river or lake and the bride is down? No problem water walk has you covered. Those are the spells that won't see regular play, but will make a difference when you need them.

the best one is the one with the spells you like the most.

I know, that's not good as a "optimization general answer", but... I wouldn't bother taking underdark, just out of personal taste in spells. None of the spells they get are things I would particularly want to do as a dedicated caster, or at least couldn't replicate the benefits of with something else, with the only exception being greater invisibility- but even there, you're not going to benefit too much from this, so it's better used to buff your melee ally, and at that point you probably want haste 9 times out of 10.

Note also that it's entirely possible that you want more spells off of the druid list than you could naturally take, in which case it's fine that a given circle gives you something technically redundant- not sure how often this would be an issue, but with that in mind taking forest as your circle is entirely fine. You don't necessarily stand out from other druids, but nonetheless you're a full caster with partial slot recovery on short rests with only 2 fewer spells than a cleric would have. even if those are all druid spells, it's still pretty good.
As I said before, the druid list is a very strong list and definitely one that conserves spellslots. If you run out of spells as a druid you have been doing a lot. As in, very, very much stuff.

Your blasting spells are concentration effects that get repeats on actions or trigger on the enemy's turns, your utility are also concentration, but last a good deal longer then other classes's spells (Pass W/O Trace, I'm looking at you and your 1hr concentration effect of de-facto invisibility)

And I just happen to have the opinion that Coast with Misty step completes it with a panic button.

But true, I am biased as I had Misty Step save my bacon a couple of times before on other classes...

[Foxhound438]

But true, I am biased as I had Misty Step save my bacon a couple of times before on other classes...

I find that a lot of people (myself included) consider it like top 5 spells in the game. Low cost, fast, and relevant amount of range.

[Drackolus]

I find that a lot of people (myself included) consider it like top 5 spells in the game. Low cost, fast, and relevant amount of range.

I even magical secrets'd for it on a lore bard. I did just drop it on a sorcerer, but he is lvl 14 and has quickened dimension door, which can do that and more (at a higher cost). I have even played a coast druid/arcana cleric. I definitely think coast is a really solid option. However, the difference between land circles is fairly small. It's not as major a decision as a domain.

[Beelzebubba]

Forest Circle Spells not included in Druid's normal list: 3
Spider Climb
Call Lightning
Divination


Minor nitpick, Call Lightning is a Druid spell

[Arkhios]

Minor nitpick, Call Lightning is a Druid spell

Oops, I knew that, I just forgot to remove it.

[BoxANT]

1 Coast (misty & mirror are awesome)
2 Mountain (lightning bolt is better than erupting earth)
3 Desert (blur can keep you alive)

[Asmotherion]

I don't know about best, but Underdark Druid seems like the most interesting to play, as it's something diferent that the Classic Druid.

[Sans.]

I don't know about best, but Underdark Druid seems like the most interesting to play, as it's something diferent that the Classic Druid.
Huh. It is?

[Findulidas]

Im suprised nobody mentions how they like grassland which has both haste and invisibility. Two really good spells.

Its unfortunate that forest is perhaps the worst.

[Kobard]

One of the major benefits of a cleric and land druid's "domains" that is not receiving much discussion here is not just what new non-druid spells that they provide you, but also in what druid spells they provide you so that you can expand your horizons within the druid's spell list. The Life Cleric's domain list is lackluster in that it does not provide many new non-cleric spells for you. The major benefit of the Life Cleric's domain list, however, is that you never have to worry about preparing a lot of the "basics."

Also, it's important to ask, as is often forgotten in discussions of optimization, optimized for what purpose? and Best for what? Damage? Utility? Exploration? The terms "best" and "optimized" don't exist in an isolated contextual vacuum, but dependent on what one hopes to achieve or when measured against some established metric.

[Beechgnome]

Just to pile on in favour of Coast, but Mirror Image and Misty Step also happen to be among the very few useful 2nd level non-concentration spells you get.

So much of druid magic is concentration, you'll be thankful for the opportunity to use them.

Having said that, I like the flavour and crunch of the grassland druid spells too: Dream, Haste, Invisibility are welcome additions.

Daylight and Freedom of Movement are also spells I would never normally memorize, but ones I always seem to find a use for. And, of course, they are not concentration.

[Potato_Priest]

I'm a big fan of the arctic and mountain circles. They may not give you a lot of new spells, but what they do give you is very powerful. Lightning bolt is a lot better for blasting than anything else on the druid's list, and slow is an incredibly powerful debuff.

Mountain is better than arctic, though, because essentially every spell on the list is something that I would be preparing anyways, so it frees up a lot of space.

[Motorskills]

I picked Coastal and then found this thread, I'm quite pleased that my choice has been vindicated by others in this thread! :D

The idea of using lots of Conjure Animal spells is a neat one, letting them do the heavy lifting while my Mirror Images and I bounce around in the background.

The downside to that is that I don't get it until 5th level and I'm not really taken with any of the attack Cantrips that I would use in the meantime.
I don't really want to be close enough for Poison Spray, Primal Savagery or Shillelagh.
Thorn Whip is fun but problematic for the same reason.
Magic Stone is boring.
Frostbite and Infestation are CON saves which I'd prefer to avoid.
Thunderclap is hilarious, but makes you very unpopular with the team.

That leaves Produce Flame which is fine, but not very Coastal.

I guess the old slingshot will have to suffice....


Recommendations, or should I be rethinking the above?

[Tubben]

Seems i am the only one who really like Haste/Invisibility (Grass) or Greater Invisibility (Underdark).

I would probably choose underdark for Greater Invisibility.

[CTurbo]

Grassland has the best spells to me

[Arkhios]

Guys... this is over a year old thread. Thread necromancy ain't cool by the rules.