How Good is Bear Totem?

[Lord Ruby34]

Resistance to every type of damage but psychic seems pretty good on the surface, but is it really? How often is damage of a type other than piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning? Many monsters have an elemental theme, like dragons, or are spellcasters, so that should make resistance to other damage types pretty good. But then I noticed that even things like fire and frost giants don't deal elemental damage, they just hit you. Dragons are often the same way. After the breath weapon attack most of the damage comes from the damage types a Barbarian is actually resistant to already. From my own personal experiences playing 5E most combat comes down to melee, with enemy spell casters being a once every few battles sort of deal and even then not all of them are dropping fireballs and lightning bolts instead of hold persons, banes, and darkness. On the other hand, when resistance to those types of damage comes up it could be a life saver. A barbarian is supposed to stand in front and take hits for the party. Taking full damage from AoEs and such limits their ability to do that for a sustained period of time.

Has anyone whose played a bear totem barbarian had a good or bad experience with the level three feature? Has anyone done the math on how often the extra resistances should come up, on average?

[Gastronomie]

If anything it benefits the DM more than anyone else.

"So this bite attack inflicts 2d6+4 piercing and 1d6 poison damage?"
"But the Barbarian is raging..."

-> Bear: So roll 3d6 = 12, add 4 for 16, half that for 8 damage!
-> Other: So the first 2d6 is 7, and the poison 1d6 is 5, so (7+4)/2 + 5 = 6+5 = 11 damage.... ugh...

Well, in terms of ability power, it's up to the campaign more than anything else. And it's probably overrated. But it's still not bad to have.

[RulesJD]

In terms of "survivability" it is the most powerful ability in the game at higher levels. Low levels tend to favor high AC, higher levels it's all about taking massive damage, which is usually from a non-BPS source (high level spells, dragon breath, traps, etc).

At high levels it's basically a set it and forget it for all defensive needs besides Wisdom saves (which you take Resiliency (Wisdom) for anyways). Chances are pretty good, if your Raging 100+ HP Bearbarian is going down, other party members are already dead anyways. No other ability comes close at higher levels.

[RulesJD]

If anything it benefits the DM more than anyone else.

"So this bite attack inflicts 2d6+4 piercing and 1d6 poison damage?"
"But the Barbarian is raging..."

-> Bear: So roll 3d6 = 12, add 4 for 16, half that for 8 damage!
-> Other: So the first 2d6 is 7, and the poison 1d6 is 5, so (7+4)/2 + 5 = 6+5 = 11 damage.... ugh...

Well, in terms of ability power, it's up to the campaign more than anything else. And it's probably overrated. But it's still not bad to have.

Technically, that's not true. Each damage source is broken out, halved, then totaled. Small difference, but always works in favor of the player because damage is rounded down.

So the Bear equation would be ((2d6+4)/2) + ((1d6)/2) = total damage. For reference, the average damage would then be 5 + 1 or 2 = 6 or 7 total damage, both less than your 8.

[Torgairon]

I've both DM'd for and played alongside BTBs and the value is in the sheer consistency that reducing 99% of incoming damage by half brings as well as the difficulty of replicating it. while eagle and wolf both have niche uses - the former to play a quick skirmisher ping-ponging all over the battlefield and the latter to generate advantage for other party members - eagle can be mitigated by battlefield/encounter composition and as for wolf, it just isn't that hard to gain advantage through other means if your party really needs it. bear almost always sees value and even though the DM will always compensate in some way (hopefully not to the point of monsters suddenly having psychic powers), unless you're only fighting soldiers and animals bear reduction will always stay relevant.

[Gastronomie]

Technically, that's not true. Each damage source is broken out, halved, then totaled. Small difference, but always works in favor of the player because damage is rounded down.

So the Bear equation would be ((2d6+4)/2) + ((1d6)/2) = total damage. For reference, the average damage would then be 5 + 1 or 2 = 6 or 7 total damage, both less than your 8.Eh, really? Thanks, then. (I'm a lazy DM, so I still calculate like I did before, but anyways.)

[Arkhios]

One often overlooked thing (probably for a good reason as you'll see later on) about Bear Totem Spirit is that the act of raging itself is possible even if you are wearing Heavy Armor. In heavy armor you just don't get the normal rage benefits such as bonus to damage etc.
Bear Totem Spirit benefit applies to raging as a whole, so it works even if you are wearing Heavy Armor.

(With a closer inspection you'll notice that some totem features explicitly say if they don't work with heavy armor. By rule of omission, if a rule doesn't say something is restricted, then it isn't)

As such, 3 levels in barbarian could be useful dip for just about any heavy juggernaut type of character if you chose Bear Totem Spirit.

[Lord Ruby34]

I've both DM'd for and played alongside BTBs and the value is in the sheer consistency that reducing 99% of incoming damage by half brings as well as the difficulty of replicating it. while eagle and wolf both have niche uses - the former to play a quick skirmisher ping-ponging all over the battlefield and the latter to generate advantage for other party members - eagle can be mitigated by battlefield/encounter composition and as for wolf, it just isn't that hard to gain advantage through other means if your party really needs it. bear almost always sees value and even though the DM will always compensate in some way (hopefully not to the point of monsters suddenly having psychic powers), unless you're only fighting soldiers and animals bear reduction will always stay relevant.

I agree that it seems better than both Wolf (Unless you have a really melee heavy party) and Eagle, but how about comparing it to some of the Unearthed Arcana paths? Do you think it's better than being able to "force" enemies to focus on you from level three onwards or having an aura of pain available to you from the other two paths?

[Malifice]

Resistance to every type of damage but psychic seems pretty good on the surface, but is it really? How often is damage of a type other than piercing, slashing, or bludgeoning? Many monsters have an elemental theme, like dragons, or are spellcasters, so that should make resistance to other damage types pretty good. But then I noticed that even things like fire and frost giants don't deal elemental damage, they just hit you. Dragons are often the same way. After the breath weapon attack most of the damage comes from the damage types a Barbarian is actually resistant to already. From my own personal experiences playing 5E most combat comes down to melee, with enemy spell casters being a once every few battles sort of deal and even then not all of them are dropping fireballs and lightning bolts instead of hold persons, banes, and darkness. On the other hand, when resistance to those types of damage comes up it could be a life saver. A barbarian is supposed to stand in front and take hits for the party. Taking full damage from AoEs and such limits their ability to do that for a sustained period of time.

Has anyone whose played a bear totem barbarian had a good or bad experience with the level three feature? Has anyone done the math on how often the extra resistances should come up, on average?

Man, my GWM Bladelock just started playing next to a Wolf totem barbarian, and its the absolute balls.

Free advantage every single round. Hes using reckless attack so we're both swinging at advantage.

Its a lawnmower of greataxes and greatswords at present cleaving through crap like a scythe through corn.

[Kane0]

Yeah it's pretty good. The others aren't anything to sneeze at though, Eagle is great for moving around and not losing rage due to distance and when paired with one or more melee allies Wolf becomes terrifying.
You have Bear for defense, Wolf for offense and Eagle for mobility. Nice choices all round.

[djreynolds]

Its better than a concentration-free stoneskin spell, because it resists non-magic weapons coupled with basically a free absorb elements.

I have often wondered if this damage resistance bear element came at 14th and the disadvantage to allies came at 3rd.... would anyone even noticed?

[JellyPooga]

Not as good as some people claim.

Don't get me wrong, it's a solid Totem, but it's also the most overrated one. Wolf and Eagle Totem will usually see much more regular play (at least if we're talking solely about the level 3 ability) because as the OP mentions, non BPS damage is typically only encountered every few fights, whilst Wolf and Eagle can be used in practically every melee.

Edit: it's also better at high level than at low, because instances of non-BPS damage are more frequent at higher levels.

[blurneko]

It is so good that one might even consider removing Radiant and Necrotic from its resistances

[djreynolds]

It is awesome, its a good dip if you can squeeze in 3 levels to any build.

But wolf's ability to prone an opponent with just a strike is awesome.... now after 14 levels the wolf totem finally gets advantage for himself... at least for 1 attack without having to use reckless attack

Eagle and wolf are very good, perhaps they don't scream on paper but in play being able to weave in and out of battle is awesome... and granting advantage to all your buddies is sweet... could get your friends in trouble though

Paladin, rogue, wolf totem could be a cool melee trio

[Lord Ruby34]

In terms of "survivability" it is the most powerful ability in the game at higher levels. Low levels tend to favor high AC, higher levels it's all about taking massive damage, which is usually from a non-BPS source (high level spells, dragon breath, traps, etc).

At high levels it's basically a set it and forget it for all defensive needs besides Wisdom saves (which you take Resiliency (Wisdom) for anyways). Chances are pretty good, if your Raging 100+ HP Bearbarian is going down, other party members are already dead anyways. No other ability comes close at higher levels.


Not as good as some people claim.

Don't get me wrong, it's a solid Totem, but it's also the most overrated one. Wolf and Eagle Totem will usually see much more regular play (at least if we're talking solely about the level 3 ability) because as the OP mentions, non BPS damage is typically only encountered every few fights, whilst Wolf and Eagle can be used in practically every melee.

Edit: it's also better at high level than at low, because instances of non-BPS damage are more frequent at higher levels.

Both of you have noted that it's an ability that gets better at higher levels. This leads me to think that it's probably not that great at low levels, which in my experience, is where most of the game is played. I see this ability recommended alot, which seems incorrect if it really isn't all that great when you get it. I feel compelled to point out that at the same level the battlemaster gets maneuvers which provide a more immediate bump in power while still being relevant late, even with only three levels in fighter. On the other hand Wolf (and Frenzy if you can negate the downsides somehow) provide a similar boost in offensive power immediately. It seems that keeping up in terms of melee damage with the fighter would require taking something like this soon, rather than waiting for an ASI to pick up great weapon master.

[djreynolds]

Wolf is great, but having to be within 5ft can be limiting. It means you are stuck with the wolf. Same goes for a paladin's auras, you want that save bonus... come with me as I charge the BBEG

Eagle is sweet, disadvantage on AoOs is nice, but if you think about it... I want you the barbarian to draw the enemy towards you... draw the enemy's agro. Yes it nice if a cleric could do this a rush in to heal someone, or a rogue could slink through the ranks of the enemy to get that critical sneak attack in.

So an eagle could be good weaving through mooks to get at multiple BBEGs... but once there... just a normal barbarian

So bear has that high level potential the other totems don't have

[Socratov]

Bear totem is as good as your role in the team is:

If you are the one that catches all the hits and if you are good enough at grabbing aggro, well then bear is the best pick as it enables you to do exactly that.

If you have partymates who use attack rolls a lot then going wolf makes for a far more effective frontliner as your mates will now kill everything you are near quicker. (and as we all know, a round that an enemy does not act, is a round you don't get damage).

[DivisibleByZero]

One thing to note.
You hear people talking about Bear totem and Wolf totem, etc. What many people don't understand is that you aren't locked into one choice at 3rd level. You can choose any totem ability.
The PHB says that this is unusual, but not prohibited. The SCAG describes many different sects which do exactly that.
So you could, for example, take Totem Spirit: Bear, Aspect of the Beast: Eagle, and Totemic Attunement: Wolf.

[ZorroGames]

One thing to note.
You hear people talking about Bear totem and Wolf totem, etc. What many people don't understand is that you aren't locked into one choice at 3rd level. You can choose any totem ability.
The PHB says that this is unusual, but not prohibited. The SCAG describes many different sects which do exactly that.
So you could, for example, take Totem Spirit: Bear, Aspect of the Beast: Eagle, and Totemic Attunement: Wolf.

My thought is cactly.

Adventurers are unusual already to non-adventurers.

[Specter]

What many seem to forget is that the Bearbarian is not raging all the time. "It helps with traps!" 1) Are you going to see the trap? 2) Are you going to rage before deliberately walking into the trap?

And then there's initiative, of course. You get to rage on your turn, which may or may not come before anyone else's. If the dragon wins initiative, he's still crisping you like anybody else.

Yeah, it's a good barbarian ability, turn off the Caps Lock. But it's far from the 'OMG IF YOU DON'T TAKE THIS YOU'RE STUPID' that you'll hear.

[mvpmack]

It's really good if your campaign features magical weapon damage or elemental damage regularly. I did remove Force from the list of things it resists (in my campaign, Force is basically unresistable), but my player barbarian regularly chews up more than his HP worth of damage in a fight due to rage, and a large amount of that damage is fire, poison, or necrotic damage due to my campaign's emphasis on elemental/undead/demon enemies and the spellcasters that summon them.

That being said, Wolf is really good. Giving allies advantage is really strong, especially if you have sharpshooter or GWM somewhere in your party.

EDIT: A lot of this is campaign dependent though. I put fire elementals in my very first adventure, so of course the bear totem rage was more effective. When he took 0 damage from an exploding magmin (made his reflex save, rolled 3 damage) he was pretty happy with his totem choice.

[RulesJD]

What many seem to forget is that the Bearbarian is not raging all the time. "It helps with traps!" 1) Are you going to see the trap? 2) Are you going to rage before deliberately walking into the trap?

And then there's initiative, of course. You get to rage on your turn, which may or may not come before anyone else's. If the dragon wins initiative, he's still crisping you like anybody else.

Yeah, it's a good barbarian ability, turn off the Caps Lock. But it's far from the 'OMG IF YOU DON'T TAKE THIS YOU'RE STUPID' that you'll hear.

You've clearly never seen the Barbarian lock-picking and door-opening kits.

As to the other posters, I tend to see the Bear really coming online around levels 7-8, when spell casters and young/adult dragons become relatively commonplace. Honestly, look at the official campaigns that have been released. HotDQ/RoT (Dragons = elemental damage), Princes of the Apoc (literally called Elemental Evil), CoS (undead = necrotic + poison damage). The only two that don't have overwhelming amounts of non-BPS damage from level 7-8 up are SKT (mostly bludgeoning) and now Yawning Portal.

[RulesJD]

It's really good if your campaign features magical weapon damage or elemental damage regularly. I did remove Force from the list of things it resists (in my campaign, Force is basically unresistable), but my player barbarian regularly chews up more than his HP worth of damage in a fight due to rage, and a large amount of that damage is fire, poison, or necrotic damage due to my campaign's emphasis on elemental/undead/demon enemies and the spellcasters that summon them.

*snip*

Just FYI, regular Barbarian resistance halves magical weapon BPS.

[Specter]

You've clearly never seen the Barbarian lock-picking and door-opening kits.

As to the other posters, I tend to see the Bear really coming online around levels 7-8, when spell casters and young/adult dragons become relatively commonplace. Honestly, look at the official campaigns that have been released. HotDQ/RoT (Dragons = elemental damage), Princes of the Apoc (literally called Elemental Evil), CoS (undead = necrotic + poison damage). The only two that don't have overwhelming amounts of non-BPS damage from level 7-8 up are SKT (mostly bludgeoning) and now Yawning Portal.

That wasn't my point (but I'm glad I haven't seen this pseudo-rogue barbarian nonsense anyway). In combat it's quite useful, but expecting rage out of combat is like expecting a Wizard to cast Mirror Image every time he thinks something bad is going to happen.

[Zene]

I thought it was overrated til I played one. It ended up being insanely good. Might just be the adventures I played (AL), but the non-bludgeoning/slashing/piercing damage that is dished out has been quite a lot. Half damage on fireballs and disintegrates and dragon's breaths has saved my bacon too many times to count.

I've run alongside a few Wolfs, and that ability is pretty fun too. But interestingly, while it's good, it actually wasn't as useful as I thought it'd be; either the fight was too spread out, or there were other ways of getting advantage already, or there weren't many melee'rs. Probably great for melee-heavy boss fights though.

[ruy343]

That wasn't my point (but I'm glad I haven't seen this pseudo-rogue barbarian nonsense anyway). In combat it's quite useful, but expecting rage out of combat is like expecting a Wizard to cast Mirror Image every time he thinks something bad is going to happen.

The downside of multiclassing rogue with barb is that on the turn you enter rage, you can't use cunning action. Also, you can't apply rage damage if you're using dex to attack (at least, that's what I had heard; I'm AFB).

That said, there are certainly wizards who use mirror image every time they think something is going to happen - they're just level 17 and have picked it as a mastered spell!

[RulesJD]

That wasn't my point (but I'm glad I haven't seen this pseudo-rogue barbarian nonsense anyway). In combat it's quite useful, but expecting rage out of combat is like expecting a Wizard to cast Mirror Image every time he thinks something bad is going to happen.

Sorry, was a bit sarcastic.

Barbarian lockpicking = just running and smashing through the door triggering whatever trap(s) along the way.

[GlenSmash!]

[QUOTE=ruy343;21961280]Also, you can't apply rage damage if you're using dex to attack (at least, that's what I had heard; I'm AFB). /QUOTE]

Correct, but You can use a Rapier(or other finesse melee weapon) with Strength to get both Rage damage, and Sneak Attack damage.

[Malifice]

Correct, but You can use a Rapier(or other finesse melee weapon) with Strength to get both Rage damage, and Sneak Attack damage.

Enguard... GROK SMASH!

[Brawnspear]

I am currently playing what is effectively a level 10 Bearbarian (6 barb, 4 warlock but that doesn't matter as much here) and the great thing I've noticed about it is I'm not afraid of our sorcerer with his lightning bolts, or our bard with his fireballs. With a raging bearbarian, you take half damage from your friends nuking the crap out of you because of the target rich environment. Combined with advantage on dex saves, and my fiend-lock temp hp, it's barely a scratch and it can really swing the combat one way or the other. So it's nice because it enables your allies while also being able to be an anvil for their their hammer and collect all the enemies to smash :D.

[Socratov]

I am currently playing what is effectively a level 10 Bearbarian (6 barb, 4 warlock but that doesn't matter as much here) and the great thing I've noticed about it is I'm not afraid of our sorcerer with his lightning bolts, or our bard with his fireballs. With a raging bearbarian, you take half damage from your friends nuking the crap out of you because of the target rich environment. Combined with advantage on dex saves, and my fiend-lock temp hp, it's barely a scratch and it can really swing the combat one way or the other. So it's nice because it enables your allies while also being able to be an anvil for their their hammer and collect all the enemies to smash :D.
I am currently levelling up a character in AL which I tested at lvl 10 in a playtest:

A Firbolg Bearbarian 3/ Moondruid 7.

and boy does that one work like a doozie. I mean, you get to be a belated moondruid, but you get more damage, better attacks and your wildshape HP live longer. It's a killer combination.

[JellyPooga]

I am currently playing what is effectively a level 10 Bearbarian (6 barb, 4 warlock but that doesn't matter as much here) and the great thing I've noticed about it is I'm not afraid of our sorcerer with his lightning bolts, or our bard with his fireballs. With a raging bearbarian, you take half damage from your friends nuking the crap out of you because of the target rich environment. Combined with advantage on dex saves, and my fiend-lock temp hp, it's barely a scratch and it can really swing the combat one way or the other. So it's nice because it enables your allies while also being able to be an anvil for their their hammer and collect all the enemies to smash :D.

Heh...I can't help but put on my Rogue hat and laugh at your Barbarian actually taking actual damage from friendly AoE fire :smallamused:

Having said that; Bearbarian does have one advantage in this regard, inasmuch as he still takes half damage from non-Dex resisted spells like Cloudkill. So there's that.

[Zene]

That being said, Wolf is really good. Giving allies advantage is really strong, especially if you have sharpshooter or GWM somewhere in your party.


Just wanted to point out here that wolf totem doesn't help ranged attackers (i.e. Sharpshooters)


Heh...I can't help but put on my Rogue hat and laugh at your Barbarian actually taking actual damage from friendly AoE fire :smallamused:

Having said that; Bearbarian does have one advantage in this regard, inasmuch as he still takes half damage from non-Dex resisted spells like Cloudkill. So there's that.

Half damage due to resistance, and probably also succeeds on the (proficient con) saving throw, so 1/4 damage total. With a huge hit point pool and (effectively) getting double-duty from any healing received, I have no problem telling party members to drop their aoe's right on my head.

[Theodoxus]

One thing to note.
You hear people talking about Bear totem and Wolf totem, etc. What many people don't understand is that you aren't locked into one choice at 3rd level. You can choose any totem ability.
The PHB says that this is unusual, but not prohibited. The SCAG describes many different sects which do exactly that.
So you could, for example, take Totem Spirit: Bear, Aspect of the Beast: Eagle, and Totemic Attunement: Wolf.

Yeah, that's kind of my problem with Malifice's homerules - limiting the totem to one aspect your entire career? Apparently he's never seen an actual totem pole. I can't think of a single instance where a pole has just bears or wolves or birds... it's always a mix :smallwink:

[Slipperychicken]

It's not as great early on when you're more likely to see non-magical BPS damage, but once you do start seeing damage outside of that, I think it's fantastic.

Minimizing your damage has a lot of great effects over the adventuring day, saving others' resources and letting you heal outside battle more efficiently than if you kept needing healing words just to stay conscious. Dnd 5e often looks like an endurance test with squishy PCs and comparatively beefy monsters; you can power through one battle no problem, but what about the next one? When you have multiple fights per day, anything that reduces your daily resource consumption is going to be important for long-term success.

[BoxANT]

While all the totems are useful (I really like Eagle totem for a barbarian who fights like a monk), Bear totem is *always* useful.



Well... unless you're fighting a psychic.

[Specter]

While all the totems are useful (I really like Eagle totem for a barbarian who fights like a monk), Bear totem is *always* useful.

Well... unless you're fighting a psychic.

Or if you're fighting... fighters.

[Arkhios]

Or if you're fighting... fighters.

Eh..? What? Totem Spirit (Bear) takes care of every single damage type except psychic damage. Including BPS - magical or not (which is why the totem spirit is still useful even for a heavily armored character as a 3+ levels dip). What are you implying with "fighting fighters"?

[Specter]

Eh..? What? Totem Spirit (Bear) takes care of every single damage type except psychic damage. Including BPS - magical or not (which is why the totem spirit is still useful even for a heavily armored character as a 3+ levels dip).

But physical damage is not exclusive to bears, so the totem ability (not rage itself) is not useful on those fights. That's what I meant.

[Arkhios]

But physical damage is not exclusive to bears, so the totem ability (not rage itself) is not useful on those fights. That's what I meant.

...but BPS (=Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing) is physical damage?

The Totem Ability only works, as written, "While raging, you have resistance to all damage except psychic damage."
The totem ability doesn't stack with normal rage; it overlaps normal damage resistances instead.

By what logic physical a.k.a. BPS damage does not fit into "all damage except psychic damage" is beyond me.

[Specter]

...but BPS (=Bludgeoning/Piercing/Slashing) is physical damage?

The Totem Ability only works, as written, "While raging, you have resistance to all damage except psychic damage."
The totem ability doesn't stack with normal rage; it overlaps normal damage resistances instead.

By what logic physical a.k.a. BPS damage does not fit into "all damage except psychic damage" is beyond me.

That doesn't make a heuristic less heuristical. He said "Bear Totem is always useful". Bear Totem is useful if you're fighting foes with damage types OTHER THAN bludgeoning, slashing, piercing and psychic. "All damage" doesn't matter when it comes to P/S/B damage because ALL barbarians already get P/S/B. So if you're fighting soldiers or mind flayers (EXAMPLES), your totem ability doesn't matter, whereas Wolf and Eagle can still use their abilities. I don't know how to explain it better, but I can see why it's a common perception mistake.

[JellyPooga]

That doesn't make a heuristic less heuristical. He said "Bear Totem is always useful". Bear Totem is useful if you're fighting foes with damage types OTHER THAN bludgeoning, slashing, piercing and psychic. "All damage" doesn't matter when it comes to P/S/B damage because ALL barbarians already get P/S/B. So if you're fighting soldiers or mind flayers (EXAMPLES), your totem ability doesn't matter, whereas Wolf and Eagle can still use their abilities. I don't know how to explain it better, but I can see why it's a common perception mistake.

To paraphrase this and expand a little (if it helps); Bear Totem does nothing more than regular rage vs. B/P/S. Thus it isn't being used in such circumstances and is only actually useful against non-B/P/S damage as compared to other Totems whose abilities are in addition to the effects of Rage when employed against B/P/S (or any other kind of damage, for that matter).

[BoxANT]

Or if you're fighting... fighters.

Very true, and if the setting is low-magic, then the other totems are even more appealing.

[Asmotherion]

It is very good. What you forget is that, not all DMs use the default MM options, and may refluff monsters as part-casters. Cantrips in 5e are at-will, and designed so that their damage stays relevant the whole game. Almost-Universal resistance to damage is almost the same as doubling your HP total. You also can make the most of your Reckless Attack feature, caring less that you will be hit, as you'll take significantly less damage, reguardless of the type.

Finally, compared to other totem options at the same level, it's far superior, and non-totem barbarian archetypes are either suicidal and less impressive at the same time, or simply unimpressive. The only Barbarian option I have found interesting besides Bear Totem (at least partial Bear totem), was the Elemental/Shaman-something from UA that casts cantrip-like abilities wile raging.

[JellyPooga]

Almost-Universal resistance to damage...

See, that's just it...Bear Totem isn't "almost universal resistance", it's "add non-BPS resistance". It's a significant distinction that Bear Totems' advocates often appear not to acknowledge. Bear Totem is just too situational to really be considered all that much better than the other options.

[Arkhios]

See, that's just it...Bear Totem isn't "almost universal resistance", it's "add non-BPS resistance". It's a significant distinction that Bear Totems' advocates often appear not to acknowledge. Bear Totem is just too situational to really be considered all that much better than the other options.

But that's where you're wrong. By strict reading of the description of Totem Spirit, Bear doesn't just "add non-BPS resistance". If it did, it would say so. Instead, the ability reads loud and clear: "While raging, you have resistance to all damage except psychic damage". Period.
In a way, Bear Totem Spirit replaces one part of normal rage, but on the other hand, it doesn't (because, I repeat, the resistances work regardless of your armor. All it asks is that you're raging. Starting to rage, RAW, isn't restricted by armor).

I'll try to make it simple for you:

Raging normally:
Conditions: you must not wear heavy armor. If you do, ignore the benefits below.
Benefits: resistance to BPS, bonus to weapon damage with attacks using strength, advantage on ability checks with strength.

Raging with Bear Totem Spirit:
Conditions: As above, if you wear heavy armor, ignore the benefits of rage - except for damage resistances - as follows.
Benefits: resistance to all damage except psychic damage, bonus to weapon damage with attacks using strength, advantage on ability checks with strength.

I'm quite well aware that it's situational. The other totem spirits have their uses in which they might be better in the big picture. However, if it's "free" damage resistances you want, Bear Totem is your best bet.

[JellyPooga]

But that's where you're wrong. By strict reading of the description of Totem Spirit, Bear doesn't just "add non-BPS resistance". If it did, it would say so. Instead, the ability reads loud and clear: "While raging, you have resistance to all damage except psychic damage". Period.
In a way, Bear Totem Spirit replaces one part of normal rage, but on the other hand, it doesn't (because, I repeat, the resistances work regardless of your armor. All it asks is that you're raging. Starting to rage, RAW, isn't restricted by armor).

I'll try to make it simple for you:

Raging normally:
Conditions: you must not wear heavy armor. If you do, ignore the benefits below.
Benefits: resistance to BPS, bonus to weapon damage with attacks using strength, advantage on ability checks with strength.

Raging with Bear Totem Spirit:
Conditions: As above, if you wear heavy armor, ignore the benefits of rage - except for damage resistances - as follows.
Benefits: resistance to all damage except psychic damage, bonus to weapon damage with attacks using strength, advantage on ability checks with strength.

I'm quite well aware that it's situational. The other totem spirits have their uses in which they might be better in the big picture. However, if it's "free" damage resistances you want, Bear Totem is your best bet.

So basically, your argument is that Bear Totem is so much better because it gives you the option of wearing a type of armour you either have to spend a Feat or Multiclass to get proficiency in? Yeah, I'll pass on that particular argument holding much weight in my book.

[Arkhios]

So basically, your argument is that Bear Totem is so much better because it gives you the option of wearing a type of armour you either have to spend a Feat or Multiclass to get proficiency in? Yeah, I'll pass on that particular argument holding much weight in my book.

My argument isn't that Bear Totem is so much better or worse. My point is that even if you don't see its value it doesn't mean it isn't there.

[JellyPooga]

My argument isn't that Bear Totem is so much better or worse. My point is that even if you don't see its value it doesn't mean it isn't there.

I won't deny it's a benefit, but it's a very small one due to the fact that most Barbarians, especially single classed ones, will never make use of it. Certainly not enough to push it into "OMG Bear's SO much better" territory.

[Arkhios]

I won't deny it's a benefit, but it's a very small one due to the fact that most Barbarians, especially single classed ones, will never make use of it. Certainly not enough to push it into "OMG Bear's SO much better" territory.

I never said that. Please, stop putting words into my mouth.

I'm just trying to say it isn't a bad option. Single-classed or not.

[JellyPooga]

I never said that. Please, stop putting words into my mouth.

Don't be so quick to take offence where it isn't given. Did I say you said it?


I'm just trying to say it isn't a bad option. Single-classed or not.

And did I say Bear was bad? No. It's a good option, but it's often overrated.

[Arkhios]

Don't be so quick to take offence where it isn't given. Did I say you said it?

And did I say Bear was bad? No. It's a good option, but it's often overrated.

Well, you quoted me, so I assumed it was directed at me. I'm glad you didn't, then.

And, yes, I agree it's overrated, but then again, advocating that it is overrated isn't doing much good to it either. I find it's better to look at the positive sides instead of repeating how overrated something is. Frankly put, such negativity is so dull. :smallfrown:

[JellyPooga]

Well, you quoted me, so I assumed it was directed at me. I'm glad you didn't, then.

And, yes, I agree it's overrated, but then again, advocating that it is overrated isn't doing much good to it either. I find it's better to look at the positive sides instead of repeating how overrated something is. Frankly put, such negativity is so dull. :smallfrown:

Eh, I'm a skeptic and a cynic :smallamused: and it annoys me a little when Bearbarian is touted as being *that* much better than the other options when it's probably the most limited and situational Totem, given that (as others have pointed out in this thread) most games are played at lower level where you don't see as much non-BPS damage being thrown about.

I would tend to agree that it's a very good 3 level dip (I might even go so far as to say it could be the best option) for a melee oriented character of level 10+ though, when it'll definitely see regular use, your main Class Features are already established (including, as you say, the potential of heavy armour) and the effects of the other Totems are easily replicable with other features/by other party members.

[Arkhios]

I would tend to agree that it's a very good 3 level dip (I might even go so far as to say it could be the best option) for a melee oriented character of level 10+ though, when it'll definitely see regular use, your main Class Features are already established (including, as you say, the potential of heavy armour) and the effects of the other Totems are easily replicable with other features/by other party members.

I must admit that this thread was partial to giving me the idea of multiclassing my Paladin of the Ancients for Totem Warrior with bear totem.
I'm still trying to figure out when it would be best to split, but roughly at level 10+ looks pretty good (Paladin7/Barbarian 3; Aura of Warding+Bear Totem)

[StoicLeaf]

One often overlooked thing (probably for a good reason as you'll see later on) about Bear Totem Spirit is that the act of raging itself is possible even if you are wearing Heavy Armor. In heavy armor you just don't get the normal rage benefits such as bonus to damage etc.
Bear Totem Spirit benefit applies to raging as a whole, so it works even if you are wearing Heavy Armor.

(With a closer inspection you'll notice that some totem features explicitly say if they don't work with heavy armor. By rule of omission, if a rule doesn't say something is restricted, then it isn't)

As such, 3 levels in barbarian could be useful dip for just about any heavy juggernaut type of character if you chose Bear Totem Spirit.

No.
And I can't believe you have to be told.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/11/22/can-you-be-wearing-heavy-armor-and-still-benefit-from-the-barbarian-totem-benefits/

[Arkhios]

No.
And I can't believe you have to be told.

http://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/11/22/can-you-be-wearing-heavy-armor-and-still-benefit-from-the-barbarian-totem-benefits/

"I can't believe you have to be told."

Excuse me? That was a bit uncalled for. Not everyone uses twitter, nor they should. Just because you think you know everything, there are still a lot of people who know less, and there's nothing wrong in that.
So please, stop acting so holier than thou.

That out of my system, I suppose I should be thankful for you clarifying that for me. My previous understanding on the matter was, however, based on what I read from the book. As in rules as written. And since I'm not a psychic I can't read Rules as Intended from the book. Anyone, other than the actual designers, who claims otherwise is a fraud.

[StoicLeaf]

"I can't believe you have to be told."

Excuse me? That was a bit uncalled for. Not everyone uses twitter, nor they should. Just because you think you know everything, there are still a lot of people who know less, and there's nothing wrong in that.
So please, stop acting so holier than thou.

That out of my system, I suppose I should be thankful for you clarifying that for me. My previous understanding on the matter was, however, based on what I read from the book. As in rules as written. And since I'm not a psychic I can't read Rules as Intended from the book. Anyone, other than the actual designers, who claims otherwise is a fraud.

I'm sorry but you have to be deliberately misreading the PHB or have blinders on.
And no one is asking you to be on twitter; google is sufficient to clarify things like this.

[Arkhios]

I'm sorry but you have to be deliberately misreading the PHB or have blinders on.
And no one is asking you to be on twitter; google is sufficient to clarify things like this.

In my honest opinion, I read it word for word as it's written. When a rage benefit wouldn't work while wearing heavy armor it says so.

Bear Totem Spirit doesn't say so.

Literally next in line, Eagle Totem Spirit does.
And going forward, Wolf Totem Spirit doesn't.

I don't think there's anything to misread there.

The only problem I can see here is to assume something the rules don't say to be there.

[PeteNutButter]

I was a big fan of the bear totem... until yesterday.

Tried my level 4 AL toon as a wolf barbarian, it is amazing. All I have to do is run into the group of enemies (I went S&B, no reckless attack so I wouldn't get squished) and everyone has free advantage for as long as I'm there. Throw on sentinel feat for harass and to help prevent enemy withdrawal.

For a bonus action, it's kind of ridiculous. Generally I regard one session as a poor sample space, but the ability is so generally viable across nearly every situation (except unreachable foes/out of rages) that it is just good. WOLF TOTEM FOR LIFE.

[Tanarii]

I'm sorry but you have to be deliberately misreading the PHB or have blinders on.

JC is wrong about the PHB RAW. It's quite clear. Bear Totem Spirit and Wolf Totem Spirit work fine in Heavy Armor, since there is no RAW restriction saying otherwise. And of course you can contrast to Eagle Totem Spirit, which does restrict it.

He is, of course, the definitive person on RAI. Not officially, anywhere except Sage Advice. His Twitter or Google Groups aren't official. But still the best source for RAI.

[Asmotherion]

I won't deny it's a benefit, but it's a very small one due to the fact that most Barbarians, especially single classed ones, will never make use of it. Certainly not enough to push it into "OMG Bear's SO much better" territory.

It is situational, just not as situational as you account it for. The usefullness of bear totem comes in handy when you need it the most, be it an enemy spellcaster throwing fireballs and lightning bolts at you (were you'd have no resistance, and elemental damage would otherwise be your main weakness), a dragon's breath weapon, a liches necrotic damage or in generall anything that is not a mind-flayer or placed similarly deep in the Underdark.

The idea is not that the ability is 5-star worthy on it's own, rather than it completes the Barbarian's tank role in a big percentage of situations were he wouldn't be as usefull otherwise. It's still a nice ability, but it's the combination that is great.