Class feature with guns in a sci-fi game looking for advice.

[Sir cryosin]

So I'm getting ready to run a sci-fi game and I'm use gun's I stat out because the ones in the DMG are a little too powerful. Any way my question is how would you think allowing class features like barbarian rage damage, Paladin's smite work with guns. I'm thinking of letting them work with a few types of guns the are 3 category there is sidearm,rifle,large.

[Ninja_Prawn]

As a subclass feature, that could definitely work. We gave our Oath of the Badge (http://mfov.magehandpress.com/2017/02/oath-of-badge.html) paladin the ability to smite with guns as one of the Channel Divinity options.

[mvpmack]

I run a campaign with guns (though not sci-fi, it's 1890-1910-era tech) and I do not allow rage/smite with firearms (there's a barbarian in my player group).

In general, paladin and barbarian are built with the idea that they can't pump dexterity. For barbarian this leads to 16dex/16con level 1 builds running handgun and shield with 18 AC (or shotgun/rifle with 16 and bayonet or backup longsword) without armor. This is kind of troublesome with an attack range that is the entire battlefield and taking half damage from everything (or just most things), and it also exposes the rest of the party to more risk which is a little odd.

It does depend on the environment though. If your typical fight is 50 yards rather than 50 feet, the barbarian can still close while shooting and bayonet dudes once he gets close. If it's longer than that (50 yards and under is pretty typical for irl urban combat) then yeah you probably want some method of letting the barbarian fight at a distance.

It hasn't really been a problem in my game though. The longest range fight I've had put the party at about 50 yards away, with a machinegun to deter them from advancing. The barbarian (who did not have a ranged weapon) just asked the wizard to conjure him a bow, grabbed some arrows from the monk (who is an elf and carries a longbow), and advanced through the machinegun fire while raging (taking half damage) and firing arrows as he advanced, drawing most of the enemy fire and allowing the party to advance to spell range (the wizard had a pistol carbine and was able to take some potshots as he advanced). Eventually he did get close, though it was late in the combat and the monk did most of the melee work by sneaking through tall grass.

I do like the idea of a paladin oath allowing smite with a ranged weapon, especially spending channel divinity uses to utilize it so it's not a clear primary combat option. They're built as melee classes though, and don't play "right" without being in melee.

In my opinion anyway, if you want a ranged, durable fighter, play a fighter. They get archery combat style and everything. As long as you give melee fighters options to close the distance (and most of my fights happen inside the magic 60' box) they'll continue to feel powerful. Barbarians and paladins get all martial weapons so it's not like they can't sling a battle rifle and chuck some lead downrange while they close distance.

[LordCdrMilitant]

I would allow rage and smite at range.

Burn, heretics, in the cleansing fires of absolution!

I like smite with a firearm or flamethrower. Now I'm a Sister of Battle!

Barbarians can also thematically rage with guns: Dakkadakkadakkadakkadakka!

[mvpmack]

Yeah, except Sisters and Orks don't deal more damage with these sorts of things. Orks need to melee to benefit from a rage-like ability, and Sisters don't really have a smite-like ability at all.

Also, clerics can get bonus damage on their attacks with firearms, humorously enough.

[LordCdrMilitant]

Yeah, except Sisters and Orks don't deal more damage with these sorts of things. Orks need to melee to benefit from a rage-like ability, and Sisters don't really have a smite-like ability at all.

Also, clerics can get bonus damage on their attacks with firearms, humorously enough.

I would like to disagree with the statement on the Sisters.

Last I checked, when we pray, our heavy weapons teams gain Rending, and our basics gain Preferred Enemy. The Acts are named Divine Guidance and Light of the Emperor, respectively, so they strike me as pretty much Smite-like. We channel the divine fury of the Emperor through our weapons to strike down His foes!


Also, IIRC, Waagh lets you run, shoot, and charge. I don't play Orks, though, so I can't say for sure, but Run, Shoot, and Charge sounds to me like it benefits shooting and melee.

[Hrugner]

Make sure that your decision doesn't reduce the number of stats a character would like to have. Adding rage damage and smite to ranged options potentially undervalues strength as a stat and strongly promotes the already strong dex. If you keyed firearms off of a non AC/HP granting stat then this would work well enough. You could also consider permitting melee or strength specific abilities only on heavy and full auto weapons while requiring a strength score to be considered proficient in these weapons.

[Sir cryosin]

Make sure that your decision doesn't reduce the number of stats a character would like to have. Adding rage damage and smite to ranged options potentially undervalues strength as a stat and strongly promotes the already strong dex. If you keyed firearms off of a non AC/HP granting stat then this would work well enough. You could also consider permitting melee or strength specific abilities only on heavy and full auto weapons while requiring a strength score to be considered proficient in these weapons.

I have already thought of that rifles and pistols that shoots bullets have a kickback property which makes them a str based weapon. Where enengy guns are Dex.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I have already thought of that rifles and pistols that shoots bullets have a kickback property which makes them a str based weapon. Where enengy guns are Dex.

That's not a bad idea, actually.

As an aside, I often wonder if longbows should have some kind of Strength requirement, too... :smallconfused:

[Sir cryosin]

That's not a bad idea, actually.

As an aside, I often wonder if longbows should have some kind of Strength requirement, too... :smallconfused:

You know that has always confused me. Because if anyone has tried to draw a bow would know how hard it can be for someone untrained. Even more when you get into higer pound draws. I go shooting with a 80 pound draw on my bow. It's funny handing someone who as never touched a bow try and draw one LOL

[LordCdrMilitant]

I'm not sure why shooting is based on DEX at all, actually. I don't really ever remember doing anything I mentally associate with dexterity when shooting bows or guns.

If anything, bows are definitely strength.

Firearms could really be anything, WIS governs your perception, so maybe that, or maybe INT, for leading a target?

[lunaticfringe]

STR Bonuses/Requirements were one of the many many taxes on Ranged Non Magical combat in previous editions. Go roll a non Zen archer in 3.5.

I vote not returning to that style of stupid.

[Slipperychicken]

That's not a bad idea, actually.

As an aside, I often wonder if longbows should have some kind of Strength requirement, too... :smallconfused:

Moving toward dex to hit and strength to damage for bows while leaving other weapon types the same would be a step backwards in my opinion.

The way 5e's stats are set up make single-stat weapons make the most sense. A different game like shadowrun can model it better by separating damage stats from accuracy stats.

[Sir cryosin]

I'm not sure why shooting is based on DEX at all, actually. I don't really ever remember doing anything I mentally associate with dexterity when shooting bows or guns.

If anything, bows are definitely strength.

Firearms could really be anything, WIS governs your perceptions, so maybe that, or maybe INT, for leading a target?

If we are talking IRL I would say int and my reasons are.
1. You can't just pull the trigger if you want to hit something. There is a way to squeeze the trigger to were not to jurk the gun.
2. Up keep on the gun. You have to know how to put your gun back together if you want to properly clean it and put it back together.
3.understanding smiple distance, leading targets, what type of ammo the gun uses,ect.

So with out going to much more I'll say using a gun as your primary weapon you would use int.

[lunaticfringe]

If we are talking IRL I would say int and my reasons are.
1. You can't just pull the trigger if you want to hit something. There is a way to squeeze the trigger to were not to jurk the gun.
2. Up keep on the gun. You have to know how to put your gun back together if you want to properly clean it and put it back together.
3.understanding smiple distance, leading targets, what type of ammo the gun uses,ect.

So with out going to much more I'll say using a gun as your primary weapon you would use int.

This guy gets it. If anything its about knowledge & training which would be placed under Int. Or proficiency, oh wait...

[Anonymouswizard]

Alright, I'm going to be the one to say it.

Do not use D&D for science fiction games.

Fifth Age is free, based on the 5e system, and designed for science fiction (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?459300-Fifth-Age-A-hard-science-fiction-5e-conversion). It has a bunch of classes designed for your average science fiction environment (and look, you can actually have technical skills!) as well as equipment and such designed for such a game. No psionics though, and I have no idea if it's balanced against 5e so run it at your own risk. No need to ask 'does Smite work with guns' because there's no such abilities in this game (although if you were going to mix I'd err on the side of no, separate the 'fantasy' and the 'science' abilities at least initially just in case they cause balance problems). It's very much it's own thing just using the 5e engine though, not 'science fiction D&D' (which in my mind makes it better, as easy to learn as bringing in another sourcebook but competent enough to run smoothly).

(Also despite what that link claims it's firmly Space Opera, and relatively medium as far as I can tell, not actually hard science fiction)

[ChampionWiggles]

This was something that I was wondering about too for a game setting I was considering. I wanted to do an Old West type setting and was curious the changes that would occur to melee combat and melee oriented skills. My big concern was to make melee combat still viable and not having the setting feel like if you weren't a gunslinging cowboy, you wouldn't last long. It makes sense for the Barbarian's rage damage to not transfer to ranged attacks, since you can't make a bullet travel faster or stronger because you are in a blood rage. I like the idea for the Paladin smite being able to be used through Channel Divinity, since the smite is a very powerful ability and it could be abused really easily if allowed from range (As cool as the thought of a divine cowboy rapid firing divine justice from their gun sounds).

The thing with incorporating guns is that you want to take the steps so that melee classes like Monk and Barbarian don't feel like they're going to get decimated for not using guns.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Simplicity and clarity are more important than verisimilitude in game mechanics. I'm not proposing anyone actually change bows to Strength. And yeah, Dexterity does have something to do with it in terms of balance, steadiness of hand, co-ordination, timing, etc. It just... gives people the wrong idea, you know? More people will be exposed to fantasy tropes (which generally emphasise Dexterity for accuracy) than will ever hold a bow.


This was something that I was wondering about too for a game setting I was considering. I wanted to do an Old West type setting and was curious the changes that would occur to melee combat and melee oriented skills. My big concern was to make melee combat still viable and not having the setting feel like if you weren't a gunslinging cowboy, you wouldn't last long. It makes sense for the Barbarian's rage damage to not transfer to ranged attacks, since you can't make a bullet travel faster or stronger because you are in a blood rage. I like the idea for the Paladin smite being able to be used through Channel Divinity, since the smite is a very powerful ability and it could be abused really easily if allowed from range (As cool as the thought of a divine cowboy rapid firing divine justice from their gun sounds).

The thing with incorporating guns is that you want to take the steps so that melee classes like Monk and Barbarian don't feel like they're going to get decimated for not using guns.

My friend, you need the Mage Hand Press Weird West Update (https://www.patreon.com/posts/weird-west-8227845). It's got Western-themed subclasses for every PHB class plus an all-new Gunslinger base class, along with our firearm rules and a whole pile of items, spells and monsters. It's a blast!

[Sir cryosin]

Alright, I'm going to be the one to say it.

Do not use D&D for science fiction games.

Fifth Age is free, based on the 5e system, and designed for science fiction (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?459300-Fifth-Age-A-hard-science-fiction-5e-conversion). It has a bunch of classes designed for your average science fiction environment (and look, you can actually have technical skills!) as well as equipment and such designed for such a game. No psionics though, and I have no idea if it's balanced against 5e so run it at your own risk. No need to ask 'does Smite work with guns' because there's no such abilities in this game (although if you were going to mix I'd err on the side of no, separate the 'fantasy' and the 'science' abilities at least initially just in case they cause balance problems). It's very much it's own thing just using the 5e engine though, not 'science fiction D&D' (which in my mind makes it better, as easy to learn as bringing in another sourcebook but competent enough to run smoothly).

(Also despite what that link claims it's firmly Space Opera, and relatively medium as far as I can tell, not actually hard science fiction)

I have already looked at that and it didn't catch my eye. I believe you can do sci-fi with DnD as long as you get rid of expectations of real firearms. The same way we don't look at the way swords arnt like real life. Also most scenarios with gunfights are in Urban places. With lots of places to take cover.only why guns replaced sword irl is because it was easyer to train. Can engage from a distance. Remember guns came into play when we still had wars on open plains or large open areas. Most urdan encounters of today if placed in DnD melee characters would do well. I'll stop ranting but if you just balance guns to the system you should be fine only thing I'm having problems with not all classes will work with guns but I guess that will just have be what it's but hey have some guns be str base help barbarians when they can't get to melee. I'm thinking letting reckless attack work with range weapons( standing up from cover waiting for the enemy to pop up or walking down the hallway as bullets fly pass him just to get a good shot.) Smites I cam refluff as different things. Only thing I'm having problems with is the rage damage from barbarians.

[Steampunkette]

I would deeply caution against making Rifles and Pistols into Strength Weapons.

Instead, have a minimum Strength Requirement to make multiple attacks per round with them.

Dexterity represents hand eye coordination, which is absolutely what aiming a firearm or other ranged weapon requires.

[lunaticfringe]

Steal & tweek the Burst Fire feat from saga edition and maybe the Autofire & Brace rules for fully automatic guns.

I can see a short range smite maybe, but playing a Barb/Monk in a setting with guns is on the player. Have you not played any 40k, SAGA, Modern games? Melee focused classes exist & yeah most of the time using a gun is the smart play.

Also non fully automatic Pistols should be Simple. It takes like 0 time to grasp the concept and a few clips to become Proficienct. It always bugs me when the are martial

[Anonymouswizard]

I have already looked at that and it didn't catch my eye. I believe you can do sci-fi with DnD as long as you get rid of expectations of real firearms. The same way we don't look at the way swords arnt like real life. Also most scenarios with gunfights are in Urban places. With lots of places to take cover.only why guns replaced sword irl is because it was easyer to train. Can engage from a distance. Remember guns came into play when we still had wars on open plains or large open areas. Most urdan encounters of today if placed in DnD melee characters would do well. I'll stop ranting but if you just balance guns to the system you should be fine only thing I'm having problems with not all classes will work with guns but I guess that will just have be what it's but hey have some guns be str base help barbarians when they can't get to melee. I'm thinking letting reckless attack work with range weapons( standing up from cover waiting for the enemy to pop up or walking down the hallway as bullets fly pass him just to get a good shot.) Smites I cam refluff as different things. Only thing I'm having problems with is the rage damage from barbarians.

Except D&D magic and advanced technology cause chaos if they exist in the same setting, or at the very least severe redundancy and the weakening of a handful of classes.

'Alright, combat's ended, who need's a Cure Wounds spell?'
'No need Mr Cleric, we'll just apply medigel and take a short rest.' (A bit of an exaggeration, and stuff like losing limbs might only be solved 'right now' with magic, assuming things like 3D Printers and Healing Tanks aren't portable)

Then a lot of a mages utility spells are made redundant by carrying around a portable computer (a laptop or phone) and a bunch of drones. Sure, power problems exist, but that's more ways around that then there are around limited spell slots or ritual time, and fighters are finally useful outside of combat :smallwink: Then message is rendered redundant by mobile phones (and if you're operating anywhere with at least modern Africa's level of technology most people have a mobile), most fast travels spells aren't as powerful as vehicles (leaving approximately Fly and the teleport line), while stuff like Fabricate is neat you can probably just buy the items (assuming D&D-level wealth) and you aren't impacting the economy by yourself even if using the 3.X version. Transmutation and Divination are mostly untouched at the modern technology level, but at the standard space opera tech level you've got to attend to stuff like additive manufacturing and potentially nanofacturing, as well as insanely powerful predictive computer systems. You just get to a point where all wizards have left is blasting, and then the rogue manages to snag the fighter a rocket launcher and an electrolaser :smalltongue:

Not saying there's an inherent problem with trying to do science fiction with D&D5e, even straight 5e, but you have to realise how increased technology impacts game balance. I'd personally have thrown out the Cleric, Druid, and Paladin on first glance, and then spent a while creating at least 20-30 techomancy spells for the arcane casters between worrying about how to make Rage work (I suggest just let it work like it does on all other ranged weapons, it's the simplest solution and the least likely to cause problems if the Barbarian can reliably reach melee range. If they wanted to use a gun they should have picked another class).

Now it depends entirely on if you're starting from 'a science fiction game' (in which case there's a half decent chance that a wizard will be outclassed by anything both space worthy and bigger than a shuttle) or 'a D&D game' (in which case you're just adding trappings to D&D rather than running a science fiction game, so just slap 'pistol/rifle' on crossbows and be done with it).

[Sir cryosin]

Except D&D magic and advanced technology cause chaos if they exist in the same setting, or at the very least severe redundancy and the weakening of a handful of classes.

'Alright, combat's ended, who need's a Cure Wounds spell?'
'No need Mr Cleric, we'll just apply medigel and take a short rest.' (A bit of an exaggeration, and stuff like losing limbs might only be solved 'right now' with magic, assuming things like 3D Printers and Healing Tanks aren't portable)

Then a lot of a mages utility spells are made redundant by carrying around a portable computer (a laptop or phone) and a bunch of drones. Sure, power problems exist, but that's more ways around that then there are around limited spell slots or ritual time, and fighters are finally useful outside of combat :smallwink: Then message is rendered redundant by mobile phones (and if you're operating anywhere with at least modern Africa's level of technology most people have a mobile), most fast travels spells aren't as powerful as vehicles (leaving approximately Fly and the teleport line), while stuff like Fabricate is neat you can probably just buy the items (assuming D&D-level wealth) and you aren't impacting the economy by yourself even if using the 3.X version. Transmutation and Divination are mostly untouched at the modern technology level, but at the standard space opera tech level you've got to attend to stuff like additive manufacturing and potentially nanofacturing, as well as insanely powerful predictive computer systems. You just get to a point where all wizards have left is blasting, and then the rogue manages to snag the fighter a rocket launcher and an electrolaser :smalltongue:

Not saying there's an inherent problem with trying to do science fiction with D&D5e, even straight 5e, but you have to realise how increased technology impacts game balance. I'd personally have thrown out the Cleric, Druid, and Paladin on first glance, and then spent a while creating at least 20-30 techomancy spells for the arcane casters between worrying about how to make Rage work (I suggest just let it work like it does on all other ranged weapons, it's the simplest solution and the least likely to cause problems if the Barbarian can reliably reach melee range. If they wanted to use a gun they should have picked another class).

Now it depends entirely on if you're starting from 'a science fiction game' (in which case there's a half decent chance that a wizard will be outclassed by anything both space worthy and bigger than a shuttle) or 'a D&D game' (in which case you're just adding trappings to D&D rather than running a science fiction game, so just slap 'pistol/rifle' on crossbows and be done with it).

I understand were your coming from that what I was thinking as well. But after thinking it over a lot. Clerics , durid, and paladin are still in. Clerics are just doctors there spells are equipment they carry flavor and reskin as you like not hard to do. Druids are bio scientist. Paladin's are Paladin's they are fighters that make a oath and keep it tents fluff spells as effects or equipment. As for traving I'm playing a a bigger place my setting is are own solar system with earth, Mar, Venus and other moons and asteroids that are colonized. Yes there is spaceships but they don't have speed of light ships so we been stuck to are solar system. As for races some time back there was a fashion craze we're people were genetically altering their bodies. And I have come up with a system for ship to ship combat that I'm play testing. As for magic user's sorcerer's have nano bots in there blood the works with a divice called Mana Sphere that collect energy and send it to nano's allowing the sorcerer to manipulate matter. Warlocks have high tech weapons like a pistol or rifle they shoot there EB from and other spells it there focus. Wizards I'm working on right now.

[Anonymouswizard]

I understand were your coming from that what I was thinking as well. But after thinking it over a lot. Clerics , durid, and paladin are still in. Clerics are just doctors there spells are equipment they carry flavor and reskin as you like not hard to do. Druids are bio scientist. Paladin's are Paladin's they are fighters that make a oath and keep it tents fluff spells as effects or equipment. As for traving I'm playing a a bigger place my setting is are own solar system with earth, Mar, Venus and other moons and asteroids that are colonized. Yes there is spaceships but they don't have speed of light ships so we been stuck to are solar system. As for races some time back there was a fashion craze we're people were genetically altering their bodies. And I have come up with a system for ship to ship combat that I'm play testing. As for magic user's sorcerer's have nano bots in there blood the works with a divice called Mana Sphere that collect energy and send it to nano's allowing the sorcerer to manipulate matter. Warlocks have high tech weapons like a pistol or rifle they shoot there EB from and other spells it there focus. Wizards I'm working on right now.

I'm not a massive fan of fluffing character abilities as equipment, there's a massive gulf in the fact that equipment can be taken away semi-reliably. I know it's a case of apples versus oranges, but I'd rather either have technology as abstracted as Fate does (my Fate builds tend to include an equipment section on the character sheet, but it's more to represent what you normally carry and has little effect on abilities) or go the full route of equipment is it's own thing that costs IC resources and works as items do in the real world.

Also, being in the solar system means nothing to all the technology I mentioned, Transhuman Space has almost everything I mentioned and Eclipse Phase had even more crazy stuff than what I mentioned before they discovered the Pandora Gates, being limited to in-system travel does nothing to inherently limit your nontravel technology. Heck, I had to go and google if EP has any mentions of non-PG FTL at all, it's pretty much limited to Earth and those crazy enough to go through Pandora Gates.

Although FTL travel isn't a requirement for interstellar civilisation, although it would be much more 'set of interconnected but self governing systems'. Revelation Space uses this model.

(That said, my next Science Fiction setting is interstellar without FTL drives, at least in the early time periods, I'm torn between going Revelation Space with lighthuggers or go the Commonwealth Saga route and have wormholes link planets together, although I'm also running it with Savage Worlds so it's a moot point)

[Sir cryosin]

I'm not a massive fan of fluffing character abilities as equipment, there's a massive gulf in the fact that equipment can be taken away semi-reliably. I know it's a case of apples versus oranges, but I'd rather either have technology as abstracted as Fate does (my Fate builds tend to include an equipment section on the character sheet, but it's more to represent what you normally carry and has little effect on abilities) or go the full route of equipment is it's own thing that costs IC resources and works as items do in the real world.

Also, being in the solar system means nothing to all the technology I mentioned, Transhuman Space has almost everything I mentioned and Eclipse Phase had even more crazy stuff than what I mentioned before they discovered the Pandora Gates, being limited to in-system travel does nothing to inherently limit your nontravel technology. Heck, I had to go and google if EP has any mentions of non-PG FTL at all, it's pretty much limited to Earth and those crazy enough to go through Pandora Gates.

Although FTL travel isn't a requirement for interstellar civilisation, although it would be much more 'set of interconnected but self governing systems'. Revelation Space uses this model.

(That said, my next Science Fiction setting is interstellar without FTL drives, at least in the early time periods, I'm torn between going Revelation Space with lighthuggers or go the Commonwealth Saga route and have wormholes link planets together, although I'm also running it with Savage Worlds so it's a moot point)

My Players are not too keen on switching systems so I'm trying things out on 5e. I see no problem fluffing things. A Doctor aka cleric carries around some healing foam, injection's aka healing spell's or a small portable cold plasma shield aka shield of fate.

[Slipperychicken]

I would deeply caution against making Rifles and Pistols into Strength Weapons.

Instead, have a minimum Strength Requirement to make multiple attacks per round with them.

Dexterity represents hand eye coordination, which is absolutely what aiming a firearm or other ranged weapon requires.

I think it would be more sensible to have a strength requirement to avoid an attack roll penalty. If a character is too scrawny to handle the recoil, then he can't fire as accurately.

[Anonymouswizard]

My Players are not too keen on switching systems so I'm trying things out on 5e. I see no problem fluffing things. A Doctor aka cleric carries around some healing foam, injection's aka healing spell's or a small portable cold plasma shield aka shield of fate.

As I've said, I'd personally much rather have that all treated as items rather than abilities, but then again I also prefer oranges to apples. There's nothing WRONG with the method you're using, it would just get me to do the exact opposite of what your players are doing (i.e. I'd be clamouring for a system that 'treats this stuff properly' rather than preferring to stick to the same one).

Now, there's nothing wrong with 5e as a system at all, although I dislike several aspects (okay, I'll admit it, I like everything bar how proficiency works, I'd rather have skill points back). I personally love the rules of Fifth Age for 5e sci-fi, that's why I linked it, although I'm not overly keen on the setting, but thankfully the rules are easily extracted. But I understand it's not for everyone.

I still think you're going about it the wrong way, but I'm not in this group so it doesn't affect me. As somebody apparently said once, 'not my circus'.

[Sir cryosin]

As I've said, I'd personally much rather have that all treated as items rather than abilities, but then again I also prefer oranges to apples. There's nothing WRONG with the method you're using, it would just get me to do the exact opposite of what your players are doing (i.e. I'd be clamouring for a system that 'treats this stuff properly' rather than preferring to stick to the same one).

Now, there's nothing wrong with 5e as a system at all, although I dislike several aspects (okay, I'll admit it, I like everything bar how proficiency works, I'd rather have skill points back). I personally love the rules of Fifth Age for 5e sci-fi, that's why I linked it, although I'm not overly keen on the setting, but thankfully the rules are easily extracted. But I understand it's not for everyone.

I still think you're going about it the wrong way, but I'm not in this group so it doesn't affect me. As somebody apparently said once, 'not my circus'.

Hey we're both taking a trip you go by plain. I go by boat either way we both get to the same place.

[Sir cryosin]

I just got done read fifth age PDF and well.
1. Weapon damage is insane the lowest weapon damge dice was 2d4 if I recall correctly. There was one that was 2d12
2. Only 5 classes that only go up to level 10 and wired sudclass thing I think?
3. Not that dig of equipment section as thought.
4. Races I don't know they feel weird but they seem okest I think?
Those are just few things off the top of my head.
Some things I like are.
1. Few new skills.
2. Feats look cool got to give them a better look over.
3. New background​s

The ships I didn't look at.

[mgshamster]

Here's Goober's 5e scifi conversion:

D&D.... in SPAAAAACE! (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R7q_ZOABIATBD3aukbofH7GKl1tm-Hug063BOnR7ToY)