Fleshgrinding Arrows

[TheDisjointed]

The simple question is: do they work?
Arrows count as daggers if wielded so fleshgrinding can be applied but the question is does the arrow breaking after a hit negate the arrow's ability to grind? and do they do bow damage or dagger damage?

Fleshgrinding
When this piercing or slashing melee weapon deals damage to a living creature, the wielder may command the weapon to 'grind' as a free action. At that time, the wielder lets go of the weapon and it continues, magically animated, to grind itself into the foe's flesh. Each round, it deals damage as if the character who had been wielding it had dealt a successful hit with it. The wielder need not concentrate or devote any time or attention to the weapon. The original wielder can grab it at any time as a standard action. The foe (or someone else) can attempt to rid herself of the grinding weapon by making a Strength check (DC 20). if the foe succeeds at the Strength check and has a free hand, she is now holding the fleshgrinding weapon. In any event, the fleshgrinding weapon stops grinding after 5 rounds.
Caster Level: 11th
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects
Price: +2 bonus
Book of Vile Darkness

[NOhara24]

The simple question is: do they work?
Arrows count as daggers if wielded so fleshgrinding can be applied but the question is does the arrow breaking after a hit negate the arrow's ability to grind? and do they do bow damage or dagger damage?

Fleshgrinding
When this piercing or slashing melee weapon deals damage to a living creature, the wielder may command the weapon to 'grind' as a free action. At that time, the wielder lets go of the weapon and it continues, magically animated, to grind itself into the foe's flesh. Each round, it deals damage as if the character who had been wielding it had dealt a successful hit with it. The wielder need not concentrate or devote any time or attention to the weapon. The original wielder can grab it at any time as a standard action. The foe (or someone else) can attempt to rid herself of the grinding weapon by making a Strength check (DC 20). if the foe succeeds at the Strength check and has a free hand, she is now holding the fleshgrinding weapon. In any event, the fleshgrinding weapon stops grinding after 5 rounds.
Caster Level: 11th
Requirements: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, animate objects
Price: +2 bonus
Book of Vile Darkness


There's probably a more educated person on the forum who has a more definitive answer - but the way I look at it since the enchanment is meant for melee weapons I'd handle it has follows:

When fired, it does regular bow damage. Once commanded to grind, it does the equivalent damage as though it were a dagger.

[Deophaun]

Arrows count as daggers if wielded
No they don't. They are improvised weapons. They only deal damage as a dagger of its size (1d4, x2 crit). They are not treated as daggers.

[TheDisjointed]

No they don't. They are improvised weapons. They only deal damage as a dagger of its size (1d4, x2 crit). They are not treated as daggers.

yeah. my wording wasn't exacting but they still count a melee weapons since there is no distinction between whether it had to be a simple, martial, or improvised. Correct me if I'm wrong. Im looking for perspective on the idea.

From the SRD:
An arrow used as a melee weapon is treated as a light improvised weapon (–4 penalty on attack rolls) and deals damage as a dagger of its size (critical multiplier ×2). Arrows come in a leather quiver that holds 20 arrows. An arrow that hits its target is destroyed; one that misses has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost.

[Crake]

yeah. my wording wasn't exacting but they still count a melee weapons since there is no distinction between whether it had to be a simple, martial, or improvised. Correct me if I'm wrong. Im looking for perspective on the idea.

They don't count as a melee weapon any more than a crossbow would, using the butt of the weapon, or a chair leg, or swinging the length of a bow like a club. They're improvised weapons.

[TheDisjointed]

They don't count as a melee weapon any more than a crossbow would, using the butt of the weapon, or a chair leg, or swinging the length of a bow like a club. They're improvised weapons.

They are considered Improvised melee weapons. See the SRD. Where is the line drawn in the books that says they could not be enhanced? They should be able to. Its possible to Keen the arrows.:smallconfused:

[Deophaun]

yeah. my wording wasn't exacting but they still count a melee weapons since there is no distinction between whether it had to be a simple, martial, or improvised. Correct me if I'm wrong. Im looking for perspective on the idea.
The wording isn't just yours: I see this misquote repeated on occasion.

As to the subject: I'm not sure if you are wrong. This is DM adjudication territory, as the rules basically divide by potato here.

I'd say that if arrows do not break when used as a melee weapon, then sure, flesh grinding will continue to work after you stab someone with it. BUT, you're no longer enchanting it as ammunition. You're not getting a 98% discount.

If they do break when used as a melee weapon, then flesh grinding is useless as the arrow no longer exists to do its thing.