Rogue Weapons/Feats

[Khrysaes]

Hello,

I previously made a long and ranting thread about a very problematic and multiclassed rogue/fighter.

Now I just want to make this one simple.

TL:DR: What are the best weapons to use, and feats to take on a rogue assuming 5 ASI because of multiclassing? I would take recommendations for Races too, I was thinking Lightfoot Halfling, VHuman, Tabaxi(Volo's), or Feral Winged Tiefling. I really like the concept of Tabaxi, but mechanically it won't do much for me.

What feats do I take, and what weapons do I use?

From my understanding, a ranged rogue is better, because it is easier to hide between shots, and can get sneak attack on anything next to an ally.

Is the best mechanical option for the rogue is a rapier in one hand, and a hand crossbow in the other with crossbow expert? Although this is another thing that uses the bonus action, rather than hiding/dashing/disengaging. With the extra attack of fighter, it is 3 attacks per round, and an opportunity attack possibility with the melee weapon, in addition to the melee only maneuvers. 11.5 average damage.

Or there is hide as a bonus action, then take 2 shots with a heavy crossbow. 11 average damage

or if I dont want the feat, the same as above with a long bow, 9 damage average in comparison.

Same for light crossbow.

7 average damage for long bow.

But other than Crossbow Expert/Sharpshooter, 2 of my 5 ASI from the classes are used(with multiclassing). I know i should reserve 2 for maxing Dex. what would I take for the last one? or 2 if I go human? I was thinking halfling because the hand crossbow is mathmatically better, and lucky/naturally stealthy.

Feats I thought might be good on a rogue.
Alert
Skulker
Sharpshooter
Crossbow Expert.
Resilient(Con/Wis)
Skill Feat(Stealth one)

[Drackolus]

Maxing dex is totally optional. It's a great option, but still just an option.

I would say, as a fighter/rogue, either rapier and shield with expertise in athletics and shield master, or bow and... Well, you're good to go.
The damage between the two will be almost the same. Major benefit for proning is you get all the advantage attacks, whereas one attack reveals you if using hide (skulker helps slightly, but not much, as odds are high that you'll hit). If you use skulker AND sharpshooter, you could use your multiattack to make two -5 attacks and sort of not care if one misses, since it won't ruin your advantage and you'll get your massive sneak attack+10 extra damage.

[Khrysaes]

Maxing dex is totally optional. It's a great option, but still just an option.

I would say, as a fighter/rogue, either rapier and shield with expertise in athletics and shield master, or bow and... Well, you're good to go.
The damage between the two will be almost the same. Major benefit for proning is you get all the advantage attacks, whereas one attack reveals you if using hide (skulker helps slightly, but not much, as odds are high that you'll hit). If you use skulker AND sharpshooter, you could use your multiattack to make two -5 attacks and sort of not care if one misses, since it won't ruin your advantage and you'll get your massive sneak attack+10 extra damage.

Yeah, I was thinking of switching it to a swash buckler with a rapier and shield., rather than an assassin.
I still really like the Tabaxi. I could either make Hunter: or Nyanta this way.
http://spyro.wikia.com/wiki/Hunter_the_Cheetah
http://log-horizon.wikia.com/wiki/Nyanta
Both of which I would think is awesome.

I am trying to stop myself from min maxing. And I do really like Hunter the character, and all the nostalgia he brings. So I am thinking a Bow Assassin, multiclass Fighter/Ranger for both close quarters and archery fighting styles. And the extra attacks(underdark scout). Sadly, I still think that the Tabaxi isn't mechanically that good.

My favorite, in terms of what I want, so far is 4 rogue, 8 fighter, 4 ranger, 3 warlock, 1 mystic.

1 mystic for the sheer versatility it provides
(as a bonus action become proficient in any skill, language, or tool)
2 of the same, gained every short rest(3 total).
never be disadvantaged on ranged attack rolls.
Always have advantage on stealth.
Telepathy with anything with an int of 2, no need to share language, 120ft.
Extra proficiencies here, which can be changed easily in any situation for out of combat, and the dark vision below are why im hesitant on Tabaxi. Especially since the two are proficiencies I would pick regardless.

and Warlock because i like the Raven Pet, and Alter self at will abilities(debatable whether its character level 15, or warlock level). Also Invisibility, hex, guidance, magehand, friends, another cantrip and minor illusion.
Devil's sight is a better version of darkvision, at 120ft and able to see through magical darkness. It overlaps with tabaxi's and Deep Stalker's.

[NNescio]

Yeah, I was thinking of switching it to a swash buckler with a rapier and shield., rather than an assassin.
I still really like the Tabaxi. I could either make Hunter: or Nyanta this way.
http://spyro.wikia.com/wiki/Hunter_the_Cheetah
http://log-horizon.wikia.com/wiki/Nyanta
Both of which I would think is awesome.

For the second option you'd probably need to take the appropriate background (or customize a background) to get proficiency with cook's utensils, and then possibly taking the UA Gourmand feat.

[Khrysaes]

For the second option you'd probably need to take the appropriate background (or customize a background) to get proficiency with cook's utensils, and then possibly taking the UA Gourmand feat.

Yeah...

I think for simplicity, I will make it a long bow using variant Human.

I dont know what I will do at later levels, but I know I want Ranger 3, Mystic 1, Rogue 3, Fighter 5.

With what my DM is allowing, this will be a nice, versatile alpha striker and ambusher. The last 8 levels on the other hand, will likely be either 8 rogue, 7 rogue/1 fighter, 6 fighter/2 rogue, or 3 Fighter/5 rogue.

it will depend on if I value sneak attack damage, Uncanny dodge, expertise, evasion, and reliable talent, or ASI, Know thy enemy, 2 maneuvers 1 dice, indomitable, d10 dice, and a 3rd attack more.

basically unlimited better defense, and better situational attack, better skill monkeying(especially when combined with Nomad Mind from Mystic), or better limited defense, better limited attacks, and more unlimited attacks. Some of these wouldn't come in until level 20 anyways, namely the level 11 skills or 3rd attack.

At the moment for an Archer I am leaning towards 8 fighter, 8 rogue, 3 ranger, 1 mystic.

This gets 5 ASI.

What feats would you recommend?

I am thinking Sharpshooter, Alert, Resilient. oh.. and Lucky for variant human.

[NNescio]

Yeah...

I think for simplicity, I will make it a long bow using variant Human.

I dont know what I will do at later levels, but I know I want Ranger 3, Mystic 1, Rogue 3, Fighter 5.

With what my DM is allowing, this will be a nice, versatile alpha striker and ambusher. The last 8 levels on the other hand, will likely be either 8 rogue, 7 rogue/1 fighter, 6 fighter/2 rogue, or 3 Fighter/5 rogue.

it will depend on if I value sneak attack damage, Uncanny dodge, expertise, evasion, and reliable talent, or ASI, Know thy enemy, 2 maneuvers 1 dice, indomitable, d10 dice, and a 3rd attack more.

basically unlimited better defense, and better situational attack, better skill monkeying(especially when combined with Nomad Mind from Mystic), or better limited defense, better limited attacks, and more unlimited attacks. Some of these wouldn't come in until level 20 anyways, namely the level 11 skills or 3rd attack.

At the moment for an Archer I am leaning towards 8 fighter, 8 rogue, 3 ranger, 1 mystic.

This gets 5 ASI.

What feats would you recommend?

I am thinking Sharpshooter, Alert, Resilient. oh.. and Lucky for variant human.

Those are very good feats (I assume you're starting Rogue for the extra skill prof and going Resilient: Con). Can't really get any better than that, since you prolly don't need a bonus action attack feat.

You could conceivably drop Alert (unless you're going Assassin) or possibly Resilient (if you have a good Cleric or Paladin or Land Druid on your team) to pick up an ASI or the Skulker feat, if you want to. This is especially true for Alert if you're going Swashbuckler, since you already get Rakish Audacity.

That said, I think some of your class combinations (Rogue 11/ Fighter 5/ Ranger 4/Mystic 1, for example) only gets you 4 ASIs instead of 5. Also, in a way, MCing Mystic can be very cheesy, as the class lacks multiclassing requirements (as it is explicitly not designed to be multiclassed anyway, from the sidebar description).

Also be aware that MCing into Ranger makes you somewhat MAD, so you're likely going to take a hit to your starting CON in order to get 13 WIS (this costs you 5 points). If you want to MC into Warlock on to of that, you also need to blow another 5 point buy to get 13 CHA, making you quite MAD.

Edit: Oh, Vuman. In that case some of the class combinations give you 6 ASIs instead, like Rogue 10/ Fighter 6/ Ranger 3/Mystic 1, so you'll have another ASI free for stat increases or another feat. Just be wary that the lack of Darkvision can really hose you over if your DM is particular about enforcing lighting and visibility conditions (non-spell lighting sources usually take up a hand and makes it hard for you to stealth, while going in blind makes it impossible to SA), so try to spring for a Googles of Night (or a pendant with Continual Flame cast on it as a low cost option) as soon as possible

[Drackolus]

If you're trying not to minmax, don't multiclass unless you are doing it for a story reason :smallwink:
If you are gonna multi assassin archer, underdark hunter spelless revised ranger (say that 10 times fast) is the way to go, I think. Any number of levels from 1-5 have merits. For melee, yeah, I would still stick with single class.

And yo, if you wanna play a tabaxi, play a tabaxi. My life cleric kobold is one of my group's most beloved characters, and I didn't optimize nothin'. She did just fine. Granted, the only real way to screw up life cleric is to dump wisdom, or put a really low number in con (like, a 5). Still.

[Khrysaes]

If you're trying not to minmax, don't multiclass unless you are doing it for a story reason :smallwink:
If you are gonna multi assassin archer, underdark hunter spelless revised ranger (say that 10 times fast) is the way to go,
]

That was the plan. 3 Spelless Deep Stalker Revised Ranger is as good if not better than (if limited to 8 levels) fighter levels 6 -8. same number of maneuvers, more dice, darkvision, that extra attack first round and bonus to hide. Natural explorer, primeval awareness, and favored enemy.



That said, I think some of your class combinations (Rogue 11/ Fighter 5/ Ranger 4/Mystic 1, for example) only gets you 4 ASIs instead of 5. Also, in a way, MCing Mystic can be very cheesy, as the class lacks multiclassing requirements (as it is explicitly not designed to be multiclassed anyway, from the sidebar description).

Also be aware that MCing into Ranger makes you somewhat MAD, so you're likely going to take a hit to your starting CON in order to get 13 WIS (this costs you 5 points). If you want to MC into Warlock on to of that, you also need to blow another 5 point buy to get 13 CHA, making you quite MAD.


Yeah I know that mystic is pretty cheesy. but the sheer versatility Nomadic mind offers, and the fact the DM said anything published or UA is allowed... If it did have multiclass requirements, it is probably 13 int.

you can take the starting spread, 15/14/13/12/10/8, or 27 points(which can get you the same), and start with 13 cha and 13 wis, so long as you dump the 13 in one, and 12 in the other, and start with a race with a +1 to it. Say, Variant Human, Lightfoot Halfling, or Tabaxi. I think wood elf gets wis?

But yeah, MAD. If not going Warlock, I do not mind at all my 3rd highest stat being Wisdom for Ranger, seeing as how it is one of the strong saves.


Edit: Oh, Vuman. In that case some of the class combinations give you 6 ASIs instead, like Rogue 10/ Fighter 6/ Ranger 3/Mystic 1, so you'll have another ASI free for stat increases or another feat. Just be wary that the lack of Darkvision can really hose you over if your DM is particular about enforcing lighting and visibility conditions (non-spell lighting sources usually take up a hand and makes it hard for you to stealth, while going in blind makes it impossible to SA), so try to spring for a Googles of Night (or a pendant with Continual Flame cast on it as a low cost option) as soon as possible

Ranger 3 Deep Stalker gets darkvision 90ft.

Also, when planning and looking at the multiclassing, I was comparing them to feat equivalents for an ASI level.

1 warlock for example, is better Magical Initiate. so if you have the stats, and only have the ASI slot in your build, 1 warlock may interest you, especially since the raven queen one gets a familiar. you get 2 spells known, and 1 per short rest, rather than long rest.

It is the same concept with the 5 fighter/3 ranger vs 8 fighter above. The spell less variant, gets 3 more dice, a second fighting style, natural explorer, dark vision, an extra attack first round(2 with action surge), favored enemy and primeval Awareness. vs 1 dice, know thy enemy, and a feat.

Likewise, 1 mystic, with Nomad focus, Nomad mind discipline, and (I was planning on Diminutive and Nomadic arrow), and Mind Meld, gets telepathy at 120ft range, more versatile than the one you get at mystic 2, although the charm one or the invisibility one would also be good. You get 2 options/long rest to be proficient in, and 1 per bonus action. Skill, Language, or Tool. "Oh, no one in the party can read this? give me a moment." advantage on hide, and in combat never be disadvantaged on ranged attacks. Diminutive also makes you smaller, and has an option for a pseudo pass without trace that lasts 10 minutes. it only gives a +5, but its still +5 you didnt have. All of this for an ASI? Yes please.

The Ranger/Rogue/Fighter combo though was in the plan since the beginning. Although not the spell less variant. It is also why I am leaning towards 8/8/3/1. I may not get the extra attack of fighter 11, but I get all the dice, and maneuvers, and all the defensive abilities of the Rogue. I also get 5 ASI, +1 with variant human.

[Specter]

Rogues should never pigeonhole themselves.

In melee, use a rapier, out of it, use a shortbow or a crossbow. With bonus action disengage, and dash do what you think is best for the team.

Good feats for rogues in general? Alert, Lucky, Mobile, Skilled, Tough. Can't go wrong.

[djreynolds]

Max dexterity and use all weapons available. You must land that SA, gaining advantage allows you to roll twice. Hiding, spells, shoving are all ways to get advantage.