Newbie help with 3.5 module "Scourge of the Howling Horde"

[SPowell42]

Hi, I'm an old 2nd edition player, and my wife and I were trying to get my son up to speed on D&D in general, and 3.5 edition specifically. He wanted to DM, so we said "ok", figuring I could work through any differences from the old 2nd edition and figure out what was going on.

Unfortunately, we're trying to play through the module "Scourge of the Howling Horde" and can't figure out the monster weapons listings. For example, the first listing in the module (Goblin Raiders, under Part 1) shows:

Melee: Morningstar +3 (1d6)
Ranged: Javelin +3 (1d4)

My son was treating these as +3 weapons, and our group was constantly getting slaughtered. Obviously groups of low level goblins shouldn't have +3 to hit / +3 damage weapons. Then I thought maybe it's the count of how many they carry, but no reason why the goblins would carry 3 morning stars each (and if this means "1 morning star for each of the 3 goblins", then the +3 for javelins doesn't make sense because the possessions clearly do say each goblin has 3 of those).

Is this number an initiative bonus? Something else?

Tried looking in both the module and the monster manual, couldn't figure this out. Any help is appreciated - thanks!
Scott

[the_david]

It's +3 to hit, 1d6 damage. I happen to know that there's a heap of errors in this module though. You might want to see if you can find the errata.

It's probably written for a group of 4 players, so that might affect the slaughtering part as well.

[Swaoeaeieu]

When monsters are statted they way you mentioned i think it works like this:

Attacks:
Melee: Morningstar +3 (1d6)
Ranged: Javelin +3 (1d4)

meaning they can attack in melee with a morningstar, the attack roll is a d20 +3 and does 1d6 damage. the +3 being from bab, str and other modifyers. In range they can use a javeling d20+3 for 1d4 damage because of their bab, dex and whatnot.

if they do have magical weapons, that is usually mentioned in the equipment part of the monsters stats.

(if they do have a +x weapon, the damge would also have +x mentioned in it)

hope that helps!

[daremetoidareyo]

Hi, I'm an old 2nd edition player, and my wife and I were trying to get my son up to speed on D&D in general, and 3.5 edition specifically. He wanted to DM, so we said "ok", figuring I could work through any differences from the old 2nd edition and figure out what was going on.

Unfortunately, we're trying to play through the module "Scourge of the Howling Horde" and can't figure out the monster weapons listings. For example, the first listing in the module (Goblin Raiders, under Part 1) shows:

Melee: Morningstar +3 (1d6)
Ranged: Javelin +3 (1d4)

My son was treating these as +3 weapons, and our group was constantly getting slaughtered. Obviously groups of low level goblins shouldn't have +3 to hit / +3 damage weapons. Then I thought maybe it's the count of how many they carry, but no reason why the goblins would carry 3 morning stars each (and if this means "1 morning star for each of the 3 goblins", then the +3 for javelins doesn't make sense because the possessions clearly do say each goblin has 3 of those).

Is this number an initiative bonus? Something else?

Tried looking in both the module and the monster manual, couldn't figure this out. Any help is appreciated - thanks!
Scott

It is their bonus to hit. They roll a d20, add that bonus and if it beats the PCs Armor Class (AC), they hit. If they hit, they then roll that die in damage.

[SPowell42]

Ok, thanks for the info everyone, much appreciated. I still need to go through and figure out if the +3 is correct...seems like +3 to hit for a first level monster is still pretty huge. I don't think any of our characters get +3 to hit...but maybe I'm mis-remembering (we shelved the game for a few weeks until we got an answer to this question).

Is there an official errata for this module - I looked and found an "unofficial" one, but nothing official.

Thanks and we appreciate the help!
Scott

[ngilop]

The +3 is correct.

they get +1 Base Attack Bonus +1 for weapon focus and another +1 for Strength if memory serves me correctly


If you are not front line characters (barbarian or Fighter) you might not have a +3 to hit, maybe +2 or less

If you are a fighter or barbarian you could be getting +5 or more to hit at first level.


Other than that (the small errors) howling horde I feel is a great into adventure just about every page has a little blurb box that explains things out in a simplistic manner

[Rizban]

Magic weapons are listed as "+# weapon". A magic longsword with a +1 enhancement bonus is always referred to as +1 longsword.

For example, we'll use an orc who is a 2nd-level Warrior and has 14 Strength and a +1 longsword. His attack entry in that format would read:
+1 longsword +5 (1d8+3)

"+1 longsword" is the weapon, a longsword with a +1 enhancement bonus
"+5" is the attack bonus added to his d20. He has +2 from Strength, +2 from BAB, and +1 from his magic weapon.
"1d8+3" is the amount of damage he does: 1d8 is base weapon damage, +2 from Strength, and +1 from his magic weapon.

[ksbsnowowl]

The +3 is correct.

they get +1 Base Attack Bonus +1 for weapon focus and another +1 for Strength if memory serves me correctly


If they are Goblin Warriors, then it would be +1 BAB, +1 Str or Weap Foc*, and +1 because the Goblin is a Small creature.

* Typically NPC's are built on a stat array of 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8. Even if they put the 13 into Strength, their racial –2 penalty would mean they would only have an 11 Strength, and get no bonus. As such, I suspect that it is a +1 from Weapon Focus (also note that the damage listing doesn't included a bonus from Strength...)
Edit: It was Str 11 and Weapon Focus, as I suspected.


Ok, thanks for the info everyone, much appreciated. I still need to go through and figure out if the +3 is correct...seems like +3 to hit for a first level monster is still pretty huge. I don't think any of our characters get +3 to hit...but maybe I'm mis-remembering (we shelved the game for a few weeks until we got an answer to this question).

Is there an official errata for this module - I looked and found an "unofficial" one, but nothing official.

Thanks and we appreciate the help!
ScottIt is correct; I just pulled out my copy of Scourge of the Howling Horde and "audited" the stat block for the first encounter. The only mistake in the stat block is in the skills; compared to the MM stat block they forgot to lower the Spot & Listen modifiers when they swapped out Alertness for Weapon Focus (never mind that the skills of the Goblin in the SRD/MM stat block are wrong, too...)
No, that's pretty standard for a CR 1/4 to CR 1/2 monster that you'd typically face at first level. Kobolds hit at +1 or +3 (melee/ranged), and orcs hit at +4. Assuming you weren't an entire party of unarmored mages, the goblins should only have had a ~40% chance to hit you (assume Human Fighter with a Dex of 12, a Heavy Wooden Shield, and Studded Leather Armor... That's an AC of 16, so on a d20 roll of 12 or less the Goblin would miss.)
That would depend entirely upon what your characters are. A Halfling Rogue 1 probably has a +4 or +5 to hit with a sling or a javelin (quite easy to start with a 16 Dex [+3] because of the racial bonus to Dex, and you get a +1 for being Small, and a racial +1 bonus with slings and thrown weapons). A wizard or a cleric probably only has a +2 to hit, at best, with either melee or ranged, but not both.

[Fizban]

Don't forget that 1st level is the most lethal level in dnd, often called russian roulette. 1st level characters simply have so few hit points that anyone with a weapon can kill them in only a couple hits, no matter how weak the game says they are. Meanwhile, the fractional CR of low level monsters makes people throw gobs of them at once, making it likely that multiple monsters will go first, hit, and kill a PC before the party has a chance to do anything.