Help in Druid feats

[Blu]

So, I will play a Druid for the first time in a new table in the Forgotten Realms setting.
The DM was not very generous in the stat distribution and i ended up with Str 13, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.

I decided to go with Lesser Aasimar for that sweet +2 Wis, and others.

My doubt is what feat to take, since we are starting at level 1.
The DM let me use all the Forgotten Realms books, PHB, DMG, MM and all the Completes.
Do you guys have an idea?

[Rebel7284]

There is a veritable novel of a handbook on this topic: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?439991-Being-Everything-Eggynack-s-Comprehensive-Druid-Handbook

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Greenbound Summoning, Lost Empires of Faerun.

Summon Nature's Ally I gets a Greenbound Dire Rat, which immediately uses its Wall of Thorns (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfThorns.htm) spell-like ability. At its caster level of 1st it can cover two adjacent 10 by 10 by 5-foot-tall areas with that spell, which lasts ten minutes. It can be cast on occupied squares to automatically trap anyone standing there for a hundred rounds. There's no minimum caster level for spell-like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities), and even though the summon spell lasts only a single round anything it does will persist after it's gone.

At 3rd level get Natural Bond in Complete Adventurer, so at 4th level you can get a 'Level -3' companion and still count your full Druid level toward its benefits. The best choices are a Fleshraker dinosaur (MM3) or a Dire Eagle (Races of Stone).

At 6th level you'll take Natural Spell, of course.

After that you can take whatever feats will improve your primary role. Rashemi Elemental Summoning in Unapproachable East can be good, but Greenbound Summoning is a lot better and they can't both apply to a single summoned creature. Combat Reflexes and Multiattack are quite good for a primary melee role with Wild Shape.

[Blu]

Thanks for the tips.

For the level 3 and 6 feats i already decided on Natural Bond and Natural spell. My issue is the lvl 1 feat. Greenbound Summoning seems nice, after that i think my second choice would be maybe Extend spell.

[Rebel7284]

How easy is it to get specific items in your campaign? Extend Spell is good, but it's pretty cheap to pick it up in metamagic rod form.

[Blu]

First time with this DM, and the table will start at level 1. So i don't have much of a clue on how he handles items.
From what i gather, he rolls random loot but follows the WBL guidelines.

[eggynack]

For the level 3 and 6 feats i already decided on Natural Bond and Natural spell. My issue is the lvl 1 feat. Greenbound Summoning seems nice, after that i think my second choice would be maybe Extend spell.
Should maybe be careful with greenbound. As was implied, it's really really really really good. At early levels, it's, "Best feat in the entire game, with the possible exception of something incredibly cheesy," good. You're getting spontaneous access to a 5th level spell at first level, and it's a good 5th too. And that's on top of stat buffs that exceed just about anything out there. It's less good later on, because you're losing access to animal growth (and a couple of other animal specific buffs), and wall of thorns is comparing against bigger and better things, but it's still kinda insanity.

For a sense of scale, augment summoning is a +4 to strength and constitution, and costs two feats. It's a bit underwhelming in broad book contexts, but it's a solid piece of featery. Greenbound gives +6 strength, +4 constitution, +2 dexterity, and +4 charisma. And +6 AC. And damage reduction, which incidentally allows the creature to bypass DR/magic. And fast healing 3. And a +4 to grapple checks. And cold and electricity resistance. And tremorsense. And big stealth bonuses in forested areas. And plant immunities. And a couple spells that are not wall of thorns. And wall of thorns. It's a lot, and it costs only one feat.

Way back when, I remember we were doing some fighter versus druid comparisons, adventuring style at like 8th level. I was putting together the high op everything goes druid, and there was a more normal druid, a high op fighter, and a normal fighter. My druid was running greenbound summoning, cause that's what goes when everything goes. We didn't really get very far in doing actual testing, but my big takeaway was when I was comparing the high op fighter to my druid's summoned creature. In particular, the summoned creature was better. I think it was actually better in just about every way. Better and stronger attacks, better defenses all around, and while the fighter had some lock-down tricks, it wasn't really enough to do better than wall of thorns. I don't think there was a single metric, no matter how small, where the fighter was ahead, and this was a pretty well designed fighter, albeit one with all levels in that class. Could someone outdo that summoned creature? Very probably. But this is one creature of possibly many, and it's scary to consider straightforward combat power on that scale gained so easily.

And this was at around eighth level. Early levels are far worse. For a lark, try constructing a third level melee character that can outdo, I dunno, a greenbound black bear or something. Even without wall of thorns, it's likely very challenging. With wall of thorns, I'd expect it to take crazy optimization skills. Worth thinking about, depending on how optimized you expect the party to be.

[Blu]

Thanks for the input. I liked your guide :smallbiggrin:

Well... seeing from that angle, Greenbound can really strech it, because party will probably be composed of fighters and rogues(not even kidding, out of 5 players, there are 2 fighters, 2 rogues and me).


I was wanting to play Druids in some time and i admit i grabed the chance when discussing with DM the idea of playing a Scout to be around the same level of power the party is. DM kind of frown upon it while saying that moving around in combat was situational, so i just choose Druid instead. Not to mention the versatility in the spell selection that allows me to go from support, to offensive caster to melee.

Thing is, with only that books allowed i don't find much of other options to go around, my other idea was Exalted Companion, to later pick VoP with the companion, but BoED seems like a no go.

[ksbsnowowl]

Greenbound Summoning, Lost Empires of Faerun.

Summon Nature's Ally I gets a Greenbound Dire Rat, which immediately uses its Wall of Thorns (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfThorns.htm) spell-like ability. At its caster level of 1st it can cover two adjacent 10 by 10 by 5-foot-tall areas with that spell, which lasts ten minutes. It can be cast on occupied squares to automatically trap anyone standing there for a hundred rounds. There's no minimum caster level for spell-like abilities (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities), and even though the summon spell lasts only a single round anything it does will persist after it's gone.

This is incorrect.

Summon Nature's Ally spells are Conjuration (Summoning) spells. Spells of the Summoning subschool follow the rules of said subschool:

Summoning
A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.

"But it's an SLA, not a spell," you might say...


Spell-Like Abilities (Sp)
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A few spell-like abilities are unique; these are explained in the text where they are described.

A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus or have an XP cost. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability’s use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell

[happycube]

As a possible candidate for your first level feat, you might look at Companion Spellbond (PHB II). It allows for significantly more maneuvering in combat than the base share spells ability by extending that out to 30 feet (as opposed to the base 5) and allowing you to cast touch spells on your animal companion at short range.

[Blu]

As a possible candidate for your first level feat, you might look at Companion Spellbond (PHB II). It allows for significantly more maneuvering in combat than the base share spells ability by extending that out to 30 feet (as opposed to the base 5) and allowing you to cast touch spells on your animal companion at short range.

Can't use PHB II. :smallfrown:

[Hiro Quester]

Druid (with animal companion) can be one of the more overpowered members of a party. So be careful in adding too much power. Greenbound summoning is awesome, but some DMs (depending on the rest of your party) might consider it too much.

Natural bond is also good. But can again be somewhat overpowered at low levels. Esp if you take a fleshraker AC (which itself is relatively overpowered). Taking it at higher levels to improve the bonuses of your tiger AC might be good, though.

A lot will depend on your role in the party. If you are primarily BFC and buffing, that will be very different from if you are playing frontline Melee (in wildshape).

A good slightly less overpowered feat is augmented summoning, which adds +4 Str and Con to all your summoned allies. It has a prerequisite of spell focus (conjugation) though.

Another thing to consider is going first. If your druid is going to be doing a lot of BFC and /or buffing allies (you can be very good at both) then Improved Initiative is also good.

One other excellent feat is Companion Spellbond, which enables you to share spells with your animal companion to a range of 30 feet, instead of only 5 feet.

If you are riding your riding dog AC you might not need this, but if you want to be able to fight independently, or together flank an enemy, being able to share buff spells at a distance greater than 5 ft is a very useful feat to have.

Edit: apologies, I didn't see the PHB II restriction initially.

Further Edit: given your party is all mundane types, you are going to be healer as well, I guess. If that's the case, you might consider the spontaneous healer feat (complete divine).

It enables you spontaneously convert your spells to 'cure' spells. Takes 4 ranks in knowledge religion, but can be helpful in freeing you from having to prepare cure spells. Out of combat you would use wands, of course, but being able to heal in combat, or while in wildshape, while preparing the non-heal spells you may need, adds significant versatility.

[ATHATH]

Further Edit: given your party is all mundane types, you are going to be healer as well, I guess. If that's the case, you might consider the spontaneous healer feat (complete divine).

It enables you spontaneously convert your spells to 'cure' spells. Takes 4 ranks in knowledge religion, but can be helpful in freeing you from having to prepare cure spells. Out of combat you would use wands, of course, but being able to heal in combat, or while in wildshape, while preparing the non-heal spells you may need, adds significant versatility.
Eh, what's an extra d8 or so of healing really going to do? A tap with a Wand of CLW (keep one on-hand alongside your Wand of Lesser Vigor) should be fine for getting most people out of negatives, which is one of the main uses of in-combat healing.

Is Lords of Madness a Forgotten Realms book? I can't remember if it is or not. If so, you might want to take the Aberration Blood feat at 1st level in preparation for taking the Aberration Wild Shape feat at 9th level. See if you can get your DM to allow stuff from the Spell Compendium; Enhance Wild Shape combos really well with Aberration Wild Shape. See the section in eggynack's handbook for more details.

[Blu]

See if you can get your DM to allow stuff from the Spell Compendium; Enhance Wild Shape combos really well with Aberration Wild Shape. See the section in eggynack's handbook for more details.
Already tried to talk to DM about, Spell Compendium is a no go too.

From what i gather my best options are:

Greenbound: Maybe too much powerfull for this party, i think the DM will not enjoy.

Imp. Initiative: Good old +4 to initiative

Extend spell: Not much to talk about here.

The augmented summoning line is kind of out of bounds, since for my lvl 3 feat i'm going for natural bond and lvl 6 is natural spell, so i would only be able to get Agumented summoning by level 9.

[Hiro Quester]

The augmented summoning line is kind of out of bounds, since for my lvl 3 feat i'm going for natural bond and lvl 6 is natural spell, so i would only be able to get Agumented summoning by level 9.

You might consider that the other way around. It might depend on what type of AC you choose.

Choosing natural bond is only worth it if you get a new higher-level AC at 4th or 7th level.

A riding dog AC will be a strong member of your group for a while. As your level rises it stats fairly competitive, and if you ride it has lots of utility, for many levels. A dire bat is a good aerial mount at 4th. But if you don't go that route and don't take fleshraker, then at 7th level then you can get a tiger or something like that. Then natural bond will enhance it significantly at 9th level.

[weckar]

The handbooks out there focus a tad much on Wild Shape/Summoning for my take. Druids can do so much more with their feats, especially if they get to cast their spells as arcane through one of a myriad of methods.

[Darrin]

Extend spell: Not much to talk about here.


I usually prefer grabbing Sudden Extend (Complete Arcane), particularly for the lower levels where increasing the spell level just isn't possible. At higher levels, it's mostly just a prereq for Sculpt Spell or Energy Substitution. If you need more than one Extend per day, then Fairy Dust (100 GP, Complete Mage) or metamagic rods are generally easy enough to acquire.

Improved Initiative is a good fallback feat if you can't find anything else you like. Spellcasting Prodigy (PGtF) might also be worth a look.

Something else to consider... you can take Natural Bond at 1st. You don't really get any benefit from taking it early, but it does open up some additional options at 3rd, such as taking a reserve feat or something else requiring CL 3: Craft Wondrous Item, Winter's Blast (Complete Mage), or Zen Archery (Complete Warrior).

[eggynack]

The handbooks out there focus a tad much on Wild Shape/Summoning for my take. Druids can do so much more with their feats, especially if they get to cast their spells as arcane through one of a myriad of methods.
I'm honestly very doubtful that you can do so much more, or more at all, really (absent something like leadership, I suppose). Middle of the road wild shape and summoning feats, like I guess frozen or vermin in the former case and augment summoning or ashbound in the latter? Sure. But what are you doing that's better than greenbound summoning or aberration wild shape? What are you doing that's close? Even if you go down a level to rashemi elemental summoning and dragon or exalted wild shape, it's hard to imagine. Now, when you already have one of each of those categories of feats, and natural spell of course, absolutely do something else. You can't greenbound and rashemi a summoned creature at the same time, and neither can you be dragon and aberration simultaneously. But for a high op druid? These feats are an absolute must. These aren't just great druid feats. These are some of the best feats in the entire game.

[Elkad]

Greenbound Summoning is OP as written, since they left the important bit out.
As the author intended (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?128424-What-have-i-missed-about-Greenbound-Summoning/page5&p=2195156&viewfull=1#post2195156) ( a +2 Metamagic) it's better. The Wall of Thorns is still somewhat of a problem at low levels.

[weckar]

I'm honestly very doubtful that you can do so much more, or more at all, really (absent something like leadership, I suppose). Middle of the road wild shape and summoning feats, like I guess frozen or vermin in the former case and augment summoning or ashbound in the latter? Sure. But what are you doing that's better than greenbound summoning or aberration wild shape? What are you doing that's close? Even if you go down a level to rashemi elemental summoning and dragon or exalted wild shape, it's hard to imagine. Now, when you already have one of each of those categories of feats, and natural spell of course, absolutely do something else. You can't greenbound and rashemi a summoned creature at the same time, and neither can you be dragon and aberration simultaneously. But for a high op druid? These feats are an absolute must. These aren't just great druid feats. These are some of the best feats in the entire game.My whole point was that there was things a Druid could do OTHER than summoning and wild shaping (lots of nasty environmental control spells and worse-than-death spells).

[ksbsnowowl]

I've found the Fiery Burst [Reserve] feat to be a decent 3rd level feat option for a Druid. Not crazy powerful, but useful.

[eggynack]

My whole point was that there was things a Druid could do OTHER than summoning and wild shaping (lots of nasty environmental control spells and worse-than-death spells).
Of course. A druid wouldn't be on nearly the same power level without their array of crazy spells. It just so happens that summoning and wild shape are still better to augment with feats, because the options to augment those abilities are so potent. And, critically, these other now enhanced abilities don't get in the way of BFC's and SoD's or whatever else you're trying to do. They make them better. By a lot. Y'know what's a real useful base for spellcasting? A form that grants golem style magic immunity and flight, or an extra standard action every round, or always on true seeing, or a dimension door every round that doesn't interfere with casting. Y'know what's really useful once you've locked down the battlefield? Burly melee monsters that can turn that stall into inevitability based victory. Wild shape especially does the opposite of interfere with other druid stuff. Summoning does eat actions, but the feats are powerful enough to be extremely worth taking even if you only summon sometimes.