Dragonfire Adept w/VoP (Modified to take Draconic feats in place of Exalted)

[Enochi]

Okay. DM is letting us go hog wild. And frankly we need it. I am the only player who has played more then one campaign most are fairly new. And its been rough. We have had TPK 3 times now. So this is Character number 4. Seen enemies as high as CR 13. Party is level 3. Lost my 2nd character to a CR 8 Bodak's gaze attack. All 3.5 feats allowed including 3rd party (Which I do not have much experience with.) Mainly going to be a dungeon crawl, Undermountain. He is the type of DM that is going to make us keep full track of gear and food supplies. Also going to be a low magic campaign. Not allowed to start with magic items.

Stats are 34 point buy. 2 Flaws allowed. Starting stats are 8. (Using a modified point buy 1 point for 1 stat point no scale ie 10 points for an 18 in a stat.) Also DM has allowed if wish to take Vow of Poverty and exchange the bonus exalted feats for Draconic feats including Meta breath feats.

My thoughts are running something like this.

Dragonborn Mongrelfolk for Race. (Acid Breath)

Stats:

Hit points are max 1st level. 80% of max after that.

0 STR: 8
6 DEX: 14 -2
10 CON: 18 +6
10 INT: 18 -2
6 WIS: 14
2 CHA: 10 -4

Feats:
1: Power Surge
F: Sacred Vow
F: Vow of Poverty
VOP1: Lingering Breath
VOP2: Shape breath or Exlarge Breath
3: Entangling Exhalation

Breath effect:
Sickening or Frost

Invocations:
Endure Elements
(Draconic Knowledge or See the Unseen maybe Magic Insight)


Should give me 43 HP, AC of 20 (+5 AC, +1 Dex, +2 Natural Armor, +2 Wooden Shield in place of simple weapon)
DC 18 for breath weapon (19 Power surge)

Any help would be apperciated. And yes I have looked over the Dragonfire Adept handbook just looking for ideas on the best way to take this.

[animewatcha]

Wooden shield means no more VOP.

[Inevitability]

Wooden shield means no more VOP.

It says he can use it instead of simple weapons.

[Dagroth]

Yeah... um... Level 3 party vs. CR 8-13 monsters?

I'm not sitting at that table. Not even if we're playing Tri-sault characters with double WBL.

And this is the introduction some of these players are getting to RPGs? :smallmad:

No... just... no.

[weckar]

I think your DM may be hinting that some encounters you should run from rather than fight.

[Dagroth]

I think your DM may be hinting that some encounters you should run from rather than fight.

Enemies as high as CR 13? Encountering a Bodak at level 3?

I think the DM may be hinting that he enjoys killing characters and setting up impossible challenges.

[Inevitability]

Enemies as high as CR 13? Encountering a Bodak at level 3?

Playing devil's advocate here, but if you absolutely must include high-CR monsters in your game, a bodak isn't too bad. It's relatively slow, only dangerous if you get within 30 feet, relatively easy to learn about (DC 19 knowledge is doable at ECL 3) and if all else fails avoidable by going outside.

Sure, the death gaze sucks, but it's not like other CR 8 monsters are any different in terms of ability to kill level 3s.

[Dagroth]

Playing devil's advocate here, but if you absolutely must include high-CR monsters in your game, a bodak isn't too bad. It's relatively slow, only dangerous if you get within 30 feet, relatively easy to learn about (DC 19 knowledge is doable at ECL 3) and if all else fails avoidable by going outside.

Sure, the death gaze sucks, but it's not like other CR 8 monsters are any different in terms of ability to kill level 3s.

But not defeatable by level 3 characters in any real measure of the word.

[Enochi]

Glad yall are taking an interest in the thread but I would really appreciate some suggestions one where to go from here.

[Inevitability]

Glad yall are taking an interest in the thread but I would really appreciate some suggestions one where to go from here.

Just keep taking DFA levels. PrCs and such aren't really that useful as none advance breath effects, and multiclassing out doesn't mesh well with a class that eats your standard action if you want it to contribute either.

[lylsyly]

My self, I would take entangling exhalation at lvl 1 instead of power surge.

[Segev]

No real advice here, but I wanted to chime in and say that, just from your title, I envisioned a character who insisted on keeping his share of loot...as a hoard he never used other than to admire or sleep on it. And I think that's awesome. Well played, OP. Well played!

[weckar]

Just keep taking DFA levels. PrCs and such aren't really that useful as none advance breath effects, and multiclassing out doesn't mesh well with a class that eats your standard action if you want it to contribute either.
If you can qualify, swiftblade isn't an awful move for a DFA. It shores up the deficiencies, advances invocations and eventually allows two breaths a round, albeit weaker (just focus on status effects!). What's not to love?

[Inevitability]

If you can qualify, swiftblade isn't an awful move for a DFA. It shores up the deficiencies, advances invocations and eventually allows two breaths a round, albeit weaker (just focus on status effects!). What's not to love?

How exactly would you qualify? Faustian cheese?

[weckar]

Practically, yes. I saw an intriguing build once that used a Trapsmith dip, but I fear I scarcely recall the details.

[Inevitability]

Practically, yes. I saw an intriguing build once that used a Trapsmith dip, but I fear I scarcely recall the details.

That'd help you get the spell, but it only lets you qualify if you're going by the debatable assumption that 'must use all 3rd-level spell slots to cast haste' works if you don't have any 3rd-level spell slots.

Though I suppose that by adding a faustian pact that issue can be fixed, that would probably work poorly with being Exalted. Maybe try to get a deal out of performing Lawful acts as a CG individual?

[Dagroth]

That'd help you get the spell, but it only lets you qualify if you're going by the debatable assumption that 'must use all 3rd-level spell slots to cast haste' works if you don't have any 3rd-level spell slots.

Though I suppose that by adding a faustian pact that issue can be fixed, that would probably work poorly with being Exalted. Maybe try to get a deal out of performing Lawful acts as a CG individual?

Actually, there's a specific statement by the designer of the Swiftblade PrC that if you cast Haste using a different level spell slot it's fine.

[Inevitability]

Actually, there's a specific statement by the designer of the Swiftblade PrC that if you cast Haste using a different level spell slot it's fine.

Link, please?

[Dagroth]

Link, please?

Sorry, not something I kept. I remember reading about it here and following a link someone provided.

[icefractal]

It sounds like you should be optimizing for avoiding fights as well as winning them. Which Entangling Exhalation is good for, so no complaint there. And I assume you're maxing out Spot/Listen. Walk Unseen may be worth picking up when you can get it, especially if you manage to get a decent Move Silently.