Ecclesitheurge and Bonded Item?

[Palanan]

If I understand correctly, the wizard’s bonded item allows him to cast one spell per day that’s in his spellbook, but not prepared for that day. But how would this work for an Ecclesitheurge? Does he gain the ability to cast any one spell his deity grants? Does this need to be the same spell every day, or can he select a new one each day? And would it work together with Domain Mastery, allowing him to cast a spell from a domain he hasn’t selected that day?

Also, how many enchantments can the Ecclesitheurge lay on his bonded item? Assuming third level, with access to Craft Wondrous Item, is there a limit of what can be piled onto the bonded item, or is it just a question of gp and time? And which enchantments are considered “appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item”?

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[khadgar567]

Escali what theurge book name pls

[Necroticplague]

Casting for your different classes is separate. Thus, a Wizard's bonded item can't be used to cast one of his Cleric spells spontaneously. Since Ecclesitheurge is just a Cleric archetype, it's thus inapplicable.

Now, assuming we're instead talking about the Ecclesitheurge's Bonded Holy Focus, this becomes a more applicable question. To try and answer your massive barrage of questions:


If I understand correctly, the wizard’s bonded item allows him to cast one spell per day that’s in his spellbook, but not prepared for that day. But how would this work for an Ecclesitheurge? Does he gain the ability to cast any one spell his deity grants?
Well, according to the pfsrd

At 3rd level, an ecclesitheurge forms a powerful bond with a holy symbol of his deity, which functions identically to a wizard’s bonded object except it can be used to cast cleric and domain spells (instead of wizard spells) and the ecclesitheurge can grant his bonded holy symbol only magic abilities appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item.
So, instead of 'any spell in your book' it's 'any cleric or domain spell you can cast', which is quiet analogous.


IDoes this need to be the same spell every day, or can he select a new one each day?
It can be a different spell every time you use the ability, just as a wizard can use a different spell each time they use their bonded item.


IAnd would it work together with Domain Mastery, allowing him to cast a spell from a domain he hasn’t selected that day? Nope. For all purposes, his secondary domain's spell list habeen replaced with that of the chosen domain. Just as you can't cast from a domain you haven't selected, you can't use a Bonded holy Symbol to cast from a domain you haven't selected.


Also, how many enchantments can the Ecclesitheurge lay on his bonded item? Assuming third level, with access to Craft Wondrous Item, is there a limit of what can be piled onto the bonded item, or is it just a question of gp and time?
This depends on how much your table allows for making custom items. Essentially, a bonded item can be turned into any magical item of the same slot, as normal. If your DM is o.k. with you using the rules for magic items to just pile on effect after effect onto one item, then there's no real limit besides gold.


And which enchantments are considered “appropriate for a holy symbol or a neck slot item”? Anything that would either normally be an enchanted holy symbol (like the Malleable Symbol) or a neck-slot magic item (like an Amulet of Mighty Fists).

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by khadgar567
Escali what theurge book name pls

Sorry, this is from the Advanced Class Guide. It’s a cleric archetype on p. 91.


Originally Posted by Necroticplague
Now, assuming we're instead talking about the Ecclesitheurge's Bonded Holy Focus, this becomes a more applicable question. To try and answer your massive barrage of questions….

I mentioned wizard just to make the comparison, since the Ecclesitheurge description says the holy focus works exactly like the arcane bond. This would be for a divine-only caster.

Also, I didn’t know seven was “massive,” but I appreciate the answers nonetheless. :smalltongue:


Originally Posted by Necroticplague
Anything that would either normally be an enchanted holy symbol (like the Malleable Symbol) or a neck-slot magic item (like an Amulet of Mighty Fists).

Okay, thanks. I assume I can just look up items with the neck slot…but is there a list for enchanted holy symbols? I’m not familiar with that class of magic item.

[Florian]

Okay, thanks. I assume I can just look up items with the neck slot…but is there a list for enchanted holy symbols? I’m not familiar with that class of magic item.

Go over to the http://archivesofnethys.com click on "search", select magic items and enter "holy symbol" in the search field.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Necroticplague
If your DM is o.k. with you using the rules for magic items to just pile on effect after effect onto one item, then there's no real limit besides gold.

In this case I'm the GM, so my only concern is that stacking enchantments would be abusing one rule or another.

But from what you're saying, it sounds like there's no reason the holy focus couldn't have two or three enchantments at least.


Originally Posted by Florian
Go over to the http://archivesofnethys.com click on "search", select magic items and enter "holy symbol" in the search field.

Very helpful, thanks. Suddenly I have more options than I can shake a scepter at.

:smalltongue:

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[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Necroticplague
Anything that would either normally be an enchanted holy symbol (like the Malleable Symbol) or a neck-slot magic item (like an Amulet of Mighty Fists).

So, about those neck-slot magic items:

A number of them seem to be one-use items, such as the Drowning Medallion, Lesser Talismans, etc. Obviously you wouldn't want your holy focus to crumble to dust after one use—but is there another version of these enchantments that would work for repeated uses? Would that require a different feat, more gp for crafting, something else?

[Necroticplague]

So, about those neck-slot magic items:

A number of them seem to be one-use items, such as the Drowning Medallion, Lesser Talismans, etc. Obviously you wouldn't want your holy focus to crumble to dust after one use—but is there another version of these enchantments that would work for repeated uses? Would that require a different feat, more gp for crafting, something else?

Hard rules? Not that I'm aware of.

However, if you fiddle around a lot with the 'Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values' table, you can get something that approximates fair. A single use item is 1/15th the cost of a 50-charge item, which is half the cost of an unlimited-use item. So single use->Unlimited is roughly a x30 multiplier. Cost for daily charges is a portion of that based on charge amount (unlimited/5/daily charge amount). So a once-per-day version of a single-use item is roughly 6 times as expensive, going by the tables.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Necroticplague
So a once-per-day version of a single-use item is roughly 6 times as expensive, going by the tables.

This is extremely helpful, thanks.

Are there any AC-boosting enchantments that could work here? I’m having trouble finding neck-slot items that are powered by cleric spells; I’d been hoping to create an amulet of natural armor, until I realized that requires Barkskin. And while Shield of Faith provides a deflection bonus, that usually goes into a ring of protection, i.e. not a neck-slot item.

Is there an obvious one I’m missing here? Or even an obscure one? I’ll take either.

[Florian]

@Palanan:

The general trick here is to look out for items that can also act as a holy symbol, use them as your bound item and then use the regular crafting rules to improve them.

[SaintNick]

@Palanan:

The general trick here is to look out for items that can also act as a holy symbol, use them as your bound item and then use the regular crafting rules to improve them.

I've been somewhat curious if a Tattoo Holy Symbol would qualify as the bonded item.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Florian
The general trick here is to look out for items that can also act as a holy symbol, use them as your bound item and then use the regular crafting rules to improve them.

Right, but the crafting rules require that the cleric be able to cast the spell involved. I’m having a hard time finding spells that are available to a cleric and suitable for a neck-slot item.

Fact is, I’ve never done anything with crafting in Pathfinder, so I don’t have any sense of what spells are useful. This is getting a little frustrating, because free enhancements to a holy focus sound great, but I don’t know what spells would be useful here. Ideally I’d like something that would add an AC bonus, but at this point I’ll take anything.

[Psyren]

Right, but the crafting rules require that the cleric be able to cast the spell involved. I’m having a hard time finding spells that are available to a cleric and suitable for a neck-slot item.

For wondrous items you can simply ignore that requirement (+5 DC per spell you don't have.) Clerics can craft Amulet of Natural Armor just fine.

It's only spell trigger, spell completion and potions where you need the spell.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Psyren
For wondrous items you can simply ignore that requirement (+5 DC per spell you don't have.) Clerics can craft Amulet of Natural Armor just fine.

Lo! The sunlight pierces the gloom! Upon the light-starved lands below, yea verily, the celestial brilliance sheds its welcome glow!

Thank you. :smalltongue: