Can I do the same things as a rogue?

[dnd2016]

Can my 5th level bard do the same things as a rogue? I am proficient in perception,investigation and thieves tools(criminal background). Can't I check for traps,hidden doors, etc, and disable them just as good as a rogue?

[Sans.]

Well. Yes.

[nickl_2000]

5E really got rid of the concept of a required Party. When I played 3 and 3.5 if you were in a party without a Cleric, Rogue, Magic User, and Fighter you may as well not even bother. Now you have lots of different options.

A Bard and Druid can heal as well as a cleric. There is no reason a Monk can't be prof in all the traditional Rogue skills (in fact, they make very good thieves). If you want to do something, you can pretty much find a way to do it with any class.

[Innocent_bystan]

Only rogues can take expertise on thieves' tools. And at higher levels, they can take 15 on skill checks IIRC. That aside, every class can be just as good at trapping, assuming they are proficient in the right skills.
Bards even get expertise as a class feature to seal the deal.

The need for rogue levels to find and disable difficult traps was a thing from 3rd edition that, thankfully, got scrapped.

[DivisibleByZero]

If you want to do something, you can pretty much find a way to do it with any class.

This.
In 5e, personality and background covers "what I do," while class covers "how I get it done."
If you have a concept, class is almost an afterthought. Pretty much any class can be built to do anything you want, with only a couple of minor limitations.

[Drackolus]

And if your dm allows ua, you can take the burglar feat from the first feat ua, giving you thieve's tools expertise.

You won't get the "never roll below 10," but that is a level 11 ability anyway. Peerless skill is pretty good too, if you're a lore bard.

[dnd2016]

So the only edge he has on me is expertise vs.my proficiency in thieves tools?

[Ninja_Prawn]

So the only edge he has on me is expertise vs.my proficiency in thieves tools?

Which isn't exactly a big deal. A lot of rogues won't even spend an expertise on Thieves' Tools. Equally you could get it with a 1-level dip.

As a houserule, I allow the Skilled feat to be 'either 3 skills or 1 expertise'. Maybe your DM would be open to that?

[Waazraath]

So the only edge he has on me is expertise vs.my proficiency in thieves tools?

No, the rogue can do decent sustained damage, the bard cannot. The bard's weak point is damage. It has a few spells, and can use magical secrets to get a few other damage options, but in general, its bad in combat. Also more squishy than rogue (and lots of other classes, bard doesn't have many strong defensive buffs on its list, especially spell level 1-3). The rogue can keep going all day, and hardly has expendable resources.

[dnd2016]

No, the rogue can do decent sustained damage, the bard cannot. The bard's weak point is damage. It has a few spells, and can use magical secrets to get a few other damage options, but in general, its bad in combat. Also more squishy than rogue (and lots of other classes, bard doesn't have many strong defensive buffs on its list, especially spell level 1-3). The rogue can keep going all day, and hardly has expendable resources.

I was talking about in regards to searching for and disarming traps and hidden doors Etc

[Waazraath]

I was talking about in regards to searching for and disarming traps and hidden doors Etc

In that case: yes.

[JellyPooga]

Likewise, a Cleric with 20 Wisdom and no proficiency in Perception can do the exact same thing as a Rogue, in regards to finding traps and all things Perception related, as Rogue with Expertise in Perception and 12 Wisdom (assuming 1st level).

Classes do not dictate what those Classes can do beyond the specific abilities they describe. Skills are delineated by their modifier and only that; there's no "trapfinding" ability or similar, like there was in 3ed.

[Zanthy1]

No, the rogue can do decent sustained damage, the bard cannot. The bard's weak point is damage. It has a few spells, and can use magical secrets to get a few other damage options, but in general, its bad in combat. Also more squishy than rogue (and lots of other classes, bard doesn't have many strong defensive buffs on its list, especially spell level 1-3). The rogue can keep going all day, and hardly has expendable resources.

I disagree to the point where you say that Bards are bad in combat. While they have a limited pool of resources, those resources are fantastic, and they offer many other ability such as inspiration dice to saves and checks, and if you go valor even to attacks. They themselves are not dishing out massive damage all the time (unless you multiclass or take a feat such as sharpshooter or crossbow expert), but they are amazing to have on your side in aa combat.

[JAL_1138]

I disagree to the point where you say that Bards are bad in combat. While they have a limited pool of resources, those resources are fantastic, and they offer many other ability such as inspiration dice to saves and checks, and if you go valor even to attacks. They themselves are not dishing out massive damage all the time (unless you multiclass or take a feat such as sharpshooter or crossbow expert), but they are amazing to have on your side in aa combat.

Right. They're only bad at direct damage without spending spell slots each round (and at least one Magical Secret on a better damage spell), unless you take some very specific build paths and/or multiclasses (even Valor Bards usually need to either dip Paladin or Fighter and take a feat or two and the right Magical Secrets picks to do respectable damage). But Bards have a fantastic range of debuff spells and a couple of good buff spells that can cometely change an encounter. Hypnotic Pattern, for example, is one of the most useful control spells in the game; Greater Invisibility is a fantastic buff for a Rogue; Polymorph can turn an ally into a T-Rex; etc., etc., so on and so forth.


As to the OP's question, Rogues get a few features that make them particularly good at disarming traps, but any character can be proficient with Thieves' Tools via background. There are no class prohibitions on skills or tool use; anybody can be proficient in a skill or tool set, and can make a check to use said skill or tool set.

[iTreeby]

Unfortunately only rogues get to use the thieves tools as a bonus action.

[Kane0]

Proficiency in Thieves Tools is so common my group actually just adds 'Thievery' as a skill under Survival.

[JAL_1138]

Proficiency in Thieves Tools is so common my group actually just adds 'Thievery' as a skill under Survival.

Might be better to call it "open lock/disarm trap" or just keep it as "Thieves' Tools" (but keep it on the skill list after Survival) since a fair amount of "thievery" is accomplished via different skills, such as Sleight of Hand (pickpocketing, stealthily stealing small valuable items, etc.), rather than with Thieves' Tools. That way people are less likely to try and roll "Thievery" to pick pockets or make off with the silverware.

[Kane0]

True, though nobody really does that at my table. Maybe we just aren't klepto enough.

[redd6425]

Piggybacking off of this. If I'm proficient in Stealth and I tried to hide on my wizard (Bladesinger), shouldn't I still get advantage on my next attack after hiding?

DM said because I'm not a rogue, I can't do that.

[Laserlight]

Piggybacking off of this. If I'm proficient in Stealth and I tried to hide on my wizard (Bladesinger), shouldn't I still get advantage on my next attack after hiding?

DM said because I'm not a rogue, I can't do that.

Rogues can get the Hidden condition more easily (on a bonus action), but once Hidden, it doesn't matter whether you're a rogue or not.

Note however that if you have to step out of concealment to make your attack, your DM may rule that you're no longer Hidden. Shoot someone from behind a bush, that's an attack from Hidden, but if you charge 30ft to make contact, they're likely to notice you.

[Coffee_Dragon]

Note however that if you have to step out of concealment to make your attack, your DM may rule that you're no longer Hidden. Shoot someone from behind a bush, that's an attack from Hidden, but if you charge 30ft to make contact, they're likely to notice you.

And in between those there's DM adjudication. But if he says no specifically because you're not a rogue, he's house ruled in a new class feature for rogues.

[Vorok]

Unfortunately only rogues get to use the thieves tools as a bonus action.


Iirc, that's a Thief archetype thing, not all rogues can do it as a bonus action.

[Waazraath]

I disagree to the point where you say that Bards are bad in combat. While they have a limited pool of resources, those resources are fantastic, and they offer many other ability such as inspiration dice to saves and checks, and if you go valor even to attacks. They themselves are not dishing out massive damage all the time (unless you multiclass or take a feat such as sharpshooter or crossbow expert), but they are amazing to have on your side in aa combat.

Agreed, "bad in combat" I wrote down to carelessly. Even without magical secrets stuff like sleep and polymorph (and many more) can be great. My point should have been: no sustained damage, and squishy (but nevertheless can do good things in combat).

[CaptainSarathai]

Piggybacking off of this. If I'm proficient in Stealth and I tried to hide on my wizard (Bladesinger), shouldn't I still get advantage on my next attack after hiding?

DM said because I'm not a rogue, I can't do that.

Your DM is an idiot.
You absolutely get Advantage for being hidden, if you are attacking from hiding.

Rogues like to Hide, so that they get Advantage because when they have Advantage, they get Sneak Attack damage.
It's not the fact that hiding gives Advantage, that causes rogues to hide. It's the fact that Rogues get better rewards for having advantage.

[Ruslan]

The only things a low-level Rogue can do that absolutely no one else can't are:

Hide as a Bonus Action
Apply Sneak Attack damage


And that's it. Anything else can be more-or-less emulated by other classes. Even Uncanny Dodge can be functionally emulated by Defensive Duelist.