Dex Barbarian Experiences?

[Jophiel]

I read the one Dex Barb guide although there wasn't much commentary after it and searched a little on the board but the only references to Dex Barbs seemed to be acknowledgement that it was, in fact, a thing that could exist. Has anyone actually played one or had one in group? How did it go?

I had a concept for a street urchin type who was kicked around and spent their youth alternating between street life or virtual slavery, always taking blows. Eventually they learned to either dodge the hits or to shut out the pain, but not a fur loincloth wearing murder-lumberjack. Variant human, starting stats: 13/16/16/8/12/8, unarmored AC: 18 with shield. Took Shield Master and proficiency in Athletics to help with slams. Rapier & shield though I picture the 'rapier' as more of a long thin metal spike than a fancy fencing sword. Rage will be for damage absorption purposes, Reckless Attacks likely will never happen.

There's basically a zero percent chance this adventure will run through to level 20; I'll be surprised if we hit level 10. Obviously not an optimized build but... viable? Without being a burden? I think we'll have a warlock and a monk and at least one other character TBD if not two.

[djreynolds]

The difference between a 13 (+1) and 16 (+3) is only +2 to hit.

So you can use strength to attack when you rage, its not much of a difference to hit and reckless attack will help those hits land

And then just plus up strength, you AC18 is a s good as chainmail and shield

[Jophiel]

The difference between a 13 (+1) and 16 (+3) is only +2 to hit.
So you can use strength to attack when you rage, its not much of a difference to hit and reckless attack will help those hits land
True. I might as well keep a STR weapon on me just in case. Though the only real benefit (I think) would be using Reckless Attack if I wanted since (using shield) a 1d8 melee + STR bonus + Rage with my scores is about the same as rapier damage with the high dex. At least I think it figured that way -- don't have book or char sheet in front of me.

And then just plus up strength, you AC18 is a s good as chainmail and shield
Well, if I'm leveling up STR over Dex/Con, I'm not being much a dex barbarian so much as a regular barbarian who made some poor starting stat allocations :smallbiggrin:

[DivisibleByZero]

The problem with a Dex built Barb is that your main feature requires that you use Str.
Not much is said about it in guides, or anywhere else for that matter, because it's a terrible decision.
At least with casters, they can dump their casting stat and focus on utility and defensive spells which don't require a casting stat.
A Barb can't do that and still be a great barbarian. He can be decent, it's viable, but he's at a *HUGE* disadvantage compared to every other barbarian ever rolled up in 5e.
No other class in 5e is tied to a single score like the Barb is to Str. Every other class can ignore their "main" stat and still be built to use their core features. For a Barb, this isn't true.

[Jophiel]

The problem with a Dex built Barb is that your main feature requires that you use Str.
Not much is said about it in guides, or anywhere else for that matter, because it's a terrible decision.
Haha, that's fair and I suspected as much but figured I'd ask and see if anyone has played/seen one out in the wild. I've always been the type to try something different or non-optimal if it brings something interesting with it but sometimes stuff just isn't done for a good reason and the one dimensional aspect of the barbarian might not allow for much deviation. I have other character and class concepts so this isn't anything I'd fight for but I was curious.

[Corran]

The problem with a Dex built Barb is that your main feature requires that you use Str.
Not much is said about it in guides, or anywhere else for that matter, because it's a terrible decision.
At least with casters, they can dump their casting stat and focus on utility and defensive spells which don't require a casting stat.
A Barb can't do that and still be a great barbarian. He can be decent, it's viable, but he's at a *HUGE* disadvantage compared to every other barbarian ever rolled up in 5e.
No other class in 5e is tied to a single score like the Barb is to Str. Every other class can ignore their "main" stat and still be built to use their core features. For a Barb, this isn't true.
Well, I was recently reading Yunru's guide to making a dex barbarian, and I have to say that I think that if GWM was not a thing, then the dex barbarian wouldn't be that much lacking against str ones. Ofc reckless attack immediately becomes a trap option (or at least a very situational one), but you get some other goodies by going dex (and some features do work well with a dex build). So, I think that in a featless game, a dex barbarian wouldnt be a bad option (and I think it is viable in a game that uses feats, though anything pretty much is).

[DivisibleByZero]

Well, I was recently reading Yunru's guide to making a dex barbarian, and I have to say that I think that if GWM was not a thing, then the dex barbarian wouldn't be that much lacking against str ones. Ofc reckless attack immediately becomes a trap option (or at least a very situational one), but you get some other goodies by going dex (and some features do work well with a dex build). So, I think that in a featless game, a dex barbarian wouldnt be a bad option (and I think it is viable in a game that uses feats, though anything pretty much is).

Sure, if you want to make a Barbarian that never uses his number one feature, Rage, then I guess it's fine.
But in that case, if you're playing a Barbarian that doesn't use Rage, then why aren't you playing a Fighter instead?

[Jophiel]

Sure, if you want to make a Barbarian that never uses his number one feature, Rage, then I guess it's fine.
Well, you'd use Rage plenty. Just primarily for its damage mitigation rather than damage dealing. Granted, you'd be self-nerfing Rage but you'd still be using it. The flip side would be higher Dex for more AC and better luck with Dex saves (combined with Shield master) for extra survivability. Not saying that it's an even trade but Rage (and then Bear totem, likely) would be an important part of the concept.

That said, I'm largely sold on it being a poor idea.

[DivisibleByZero]

Well, you'd use Rage plenty. Just primarily for its damage mitigation rather than damage dealing. Granted, you'd be self-nerfing Rage but you'd still be using it. The flip side would be higher Dex for more AC and better luck with Dex saves (combined with Shield master) for extra survivability. Not saying that it's an even trade but Rage (and then Bear totem, likely) would be an important part of the concept.

If you're playing in a game with Feats, then a Dex Fighter with Medium/Heavy Armor Master or Shield Master or Defensive Duelist or any combination thereof is almost as defensive, but he still gets more attacks and all of the fighter goodies to boot. If he's a Battle Master or an EK, then he can probably be built to be even tankier than what Rage's Resistance would offer. The same can even be said of the Champion, although that one would take 18 levels to see it.
If you want to play a Dex Barb, you're better off playing a Dex Fighter.


That said, I'm largely sold on it being a poor idea.

That was more in response to previous posters than yourself.
:smallsmile:

[Jamesps]

Strength is needed for most of a barbarian's offensive capabilities to function, but they have a few other things they can do besides straight offense. With a dex build I would focus on those.

Wolf barbarians make excellent support characters, and I would strongly suggest taking sentinel to force enemies to deal with your very high defensive capabilities. Further, going dexterity will open up some much better ranged options allowing you to deal with encounters that tend to be a source of frustration to most barbarians. Finally, if multiclassing is on the table a dex based barbarian can quickly catch up to a standard barbican in offensive capabilities by taking levels of rogue.

[jaappleton]

Well, I was recently reading Yunru's guide to making a dex barbarian, and I have to say that I think that if GWM was not a thing, then the dex barbarian wouldn't be that much lacking against str ones. Ofc reckless attack immediately becomes a trap option (or at least a very situational one), but you get some other goodies by going dex (and some features do work well with a dex build). So, I think that in a featless game, a dex barbarian wouldnt be a bad option (and I think it is viable in a game that uses feats, though anything pretty much is).

Ah, Yunru. I know him from back at the WOTC official boards. Him and mellored were among the best optimizers there, though Yunru often goes off the map to see viable things in what shouldn't necessarily be viable.

By going Totem Barb over Fighter, you can make the argument that Barb (at certain levels) is a better archer. Eagle at 6 SHOULD mean you never suffer disadvantage for attacking at long range... But that's an assumption. I like Yunru, I respect him and his work, but he often makes assumptions.

That said, is a Dexbarian viable? Yes. Optimal? No. Could you do worse? Yes. Could you do better? Absolutely.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Dex barb is probably not an *optimal* choice, but that only matters if your fellow players are optimizing and you want to keep up.

I'm not really qualified to comment on your build, but since you asked, here's how I did it:

Rogue 1 for Expertise, skills, Dex saves and Sneak Attack
Fighter 1 for Two-Weapon fighting style
Barbarian 5 for Extra Attack
after that you can stay with Barbarian or return to Rogue for at least 4 more levels, picking up more Sneak Attack and Uncanny Dodge.
Other party members are a Valour Bard, a Life Cleric and a ranged Fighter/Ranger. So far I've been tanking with my high AC, HPs and damage resistance, but as I go further down the Rogue path they're going to have to share that job.

Focused on Dex and Con, only took Str to 13 so I could multiclass. I'm playing a kobold, and enjoying Pack Tactics, but my DM was kind and waived the -4 to Str because she liked the concept. Kobold is not necessary for this to more or less work.

[Jophiel]

Finally, if multiclassing is on the table a dex based barbarian can quickly catch up to a standard barbican in offensive capabilities by taking levels of rogue.
Dex barb is probably not an *optimal* choice, but that only matters if your fellow players are optimizing and you want to keep up.

I'm not really qualified to comment on your build, but since you asked, here's how I did it:
I'd be hesitant to multiclass because of real world issues: We only meet for about four hours per session twice a month so progression is rather slow as is (hence my guess that we'll never see levels 10+). While multiclassing certainly seems like it'd make it more viable (not optimal) the delay in getting the concept really rolling would probably make it not much fun. I'd really want something that worked more or less out of the box. If we played eight hours a week every week then my opinion would change.

Thanks for the feedback though, especially Weevil's personal plan and experience. Also, of course, by all means continue discussing it :smallbiggrin:

[PeteNutButter]

The best way to play a dex barbarian is to leave barbarian after one level. The late game AC boost will be worth it and 2/day resistance to physical damage for a minute is a fair bargain for a one level dip.

But from there, go do something better with your life, like fighter, ranger or rogue.

[Corran]

I put thise in spoiler since the OP asked specifically for experiences with a dex based barb, which I have none since I never played one nor have I seen one in play. So I am heading off-topic. I will eagerly read any replies but will not continue with this conversation only due to that it is off-topic.


Strength is needed for most of a barbarian's offensive capabilities to function, but they have a few other things they can do besides straight offense. With a dex build I would focus on those.

Wolf barbarians make excellent support characters, and I would strongly suggest taking sentinel to force enemies to deal with your very high defensive capabilities. Further, going dexterity will open up some much better ranged options allowing you to deal with encounters that tend to be a source of frustration to most barbarians. Finally, if multiclassing is on the table a dex based barbarian can quickly catch up to a standard barbican in offensive capabilities by taking levels of rogue.
You can use rage, sure, you are missing on the damage boost, but getting resistance is the big deal. Now, I admit that it is anti-synergetic to build AC since you can have resistance, but it is nice in a way that you can push it a lot as far as the durability of your character is concenred. I think the big blow comes from losing the advantage from reckless attack (not only due to using dex instead of str, but also because you wouldnt want to grant advantage since you went out of your way to build a good AC). But reckless attack is imo so highly praised, mainly due to how powwerful GWM is, that's my point. If you are not using this feat in your game, or if you have tweked it, then the dex barbarian instantly becomes more appealing. Anti-synergy bwteen rage and a good AC is still an issue as far as optimization goes, but there is some value in pushing the boundaries of how durable your character is, particularly in corner cases when you are in a party full of squichies.
I dont think we disagree on anything, my main point is that the dex barb would be a lot better if GWM was not a thing.


Ah, Yunru. I know him from back at the WOTC official boards. Him and mellored were among the best optimizers there, though Yunru often goes off the map to see viable things in what shouldn't necessarily be viable.

By going Totem Barb over Fighter, you can make the argument that Barb (at certain levels) is a better archer. Eagle at 6 SHOULD mean you never suffer disadvantage for attacking at long range... But that's an assumption. I like Yunru, I respect him and his work, but he often makes assumptions.

That said, is a Dexbarian viable? Yes. Optimal? No. Could you do worse? Yes. Could you do better? Absolutely.
Didnt read yet the archer approach, though I think I saw it mentioned. Will go back at some point and give it a proper read. I like guides that try to optimize a concept, or to put it in another way, that start with a fixed basis (no matter how optimal it is or not) and try to optimize based on the restrictions this basis imposes. Better if this basis can be worked into a workable concept (in a loose sense, and partly from a mechanics point of view), and I think the dex barbarian is appealing because it breaks such a well-established (and for good reason, I admit) norm. Agreed it is not optimal, yet for some reason, it has some flavour that I really like.

[Jophiel]

The best way to play a dex barbarian is to leave barbarian after one level. [...] But from there, go do something better with your life, like fighter, ranger or rogue.
Naked rangers. Let's do it.

I put thise in spoiler since the OP asked specifically for experiences with a dex based barb, which I have none since I never played one nor have I seen one in play. So I am heading off-topic. I will eagerly read any replies but will not continue with this conversation only due to that it is off-topic.
It's likely that "real life" experiences with the concept will remain very minimal so I welcome any discussion on the concept in general and don't personally consider it off-topic. Theoretical discussions are still more useful than a silent thread because no one has the experience to share.

[PeteNutButter]

Naked rangers. Let's do it.

It's likely that "real life" experiences with the concept will remain very minimal so I welcome any discussion on the concept in general and don't personally consider it off-topic. Theoretical discussions are still more useful than a silent thread because no one has the experience to share.

I have actually seen it tried for one adventure. One of the regulars in our AL group gave it a shot. Played a goblin barb 3. The general consensus was it was ok but just worse than using str. You are talking two ASIs before he even has better AC than half plate at the cost of the loss of significant damage and attack potential.

[cakesoldier]

Possible? Of course. Capable of dealing damage? Yes. Useful? Not really. If you want higher AC then just wear medium armor and use a shield. Rage damage, advantage on strength checks, and reckless attack depend on having strength. If you want to do a dex based melee ****kicker, go fighter.

[Diebo]

I’m playing a 9th level halfling shield-master bear barbarian in Curse of Strahd. My character has 16 Str, 16 Dex, and 16 Con.

Here’s the nice thing about shield master with a bear barbarian w/skill in athletics. Since you’ll most always have advantage, you don’t really need higher strength OR dexterity. You are going to hit most of the time anyway. 14 Strength will hit more often than a 20 STR GWM recklessly attacking, and you can take a lot more damage (because you get hit less often). The downside is you do less damage.

And shield master works so well with danger sense. You can wade into a crowd, draw aggro, and have the mage drop a fireball. Using your reaction, you can likely walk away with no damage, or if you are bear totem and fail your save (which you have advantage on!), 1/2 damage.

Anyway, from my experience, you have a character that is pretty hard to drop. I’ve concluded that unless you are playing with super-optimal players, you can spend your ASIs on feats for the most part. GWM NEEDS the Strength to hit. You don’t. You’ll almost always have advantage. Take resilient WIS to buff your WIS save, or Lucky. I’d be happy with 14 STR, 16 DEX on my character, and better off with resilient WIS. Sentinel gives you another likely attack as a reaction. You always have a bonus action (shove) from the shield.

Optimal? Perhaps not. But it works, and you are extra-hard to kill. I agree that wearing armor makes more sense, but what self-respecting barbarian wears armor? 18 is plenty!
I’d agree with others that multi-classing is optimal. A level of rogue for expertise in athletics and the sneak attack is super-nice. Or a level of fighter if you want to dual-wield instead of shield master. But I’m playing single-class, and appreciating having enough rages to actually use them (4/long rest) as well as fast movement, feral instinct, danger sense, and brutal critical. My halfling can lift ~1,000 lbs with bear aspect of the beast! If it is too big to shield bash, just jump on their back and start whapping or stabbing. Athletics will keep you on, and keep them from shaking you off.
5E makes it pretty hard to go wrong.

[wilhelmdubdub]

How available are magic items? Gauntlets of ogre/giant strength might come along.

[Klorox]

How available are magic items? Gauntlets of ogre/giant strength might come along.

IIRC, this is also an assumption of the guide.

Do these gauntlets help? Absolutely. But it negates the entire concept and it is very dangerous to assume you'll find a certain magic item if you consider it essential to your character idea.

I think the idea behind a dexterity based barbarian is people see the ridiculous AC that can be achieved with no armor at all.

That being said, if you play a barbarian with a high-ish constitution and you're smart about when you rage, you won't hardly ever need to worry about your AC. The multiple hits you take are easily shrugged off.

[Giant2005]

It really depends on how well you roll your attributes. I you roll well enough to get two incredibly high attributes, then the Dex Barb is the stronger of the two. If you only have one high attribute (or a bunch of slightly above average ones) then the Str Barb is the stronger.

However there is one notable aspect which limits the Dex Barb somewhat - that aspect being that Barbarian is basically a dip only class (it gets everything of worth within just 1 or 2 levels). The Dex guy has a harder time multiclassing due to requiring 13 Str that he has no intention of using. Although the Str guy needs 14 Dex in order to max out his AC, so I guess it comes out a wash.