Artificers and caster level

[weckar]

Quite simply, a part of the Artificer class confuses me. Under Item Creation, there is the line
For purposes of meeting item prerequisites, an artificer's effective caster level equals his artificer level +2.
For the life of me, nowhere in the Item Creation rules can I find anything about any item having a caster level requirement to craft. Does this refer to the caster level required to cast the required spells, only?

[Fizban]

You need a high enough caster level to cast the spell. You need a caster level of 3x the enhancement bonus of the armor or weapon (amusingly, retained even after they dropped GMW/V scaling to 1/4). You need a caster level of 15 to make an intelligent item.

As far as I've been able to find, there is no actual rule that says you need to have the same caster level as the item is listed with, but there are passages which assume this is the case and it's a popular DM position. Most of the time if you have the caster level for the spell you'll already meet it anyway, aside from some weird items like Universal Solvent (50gp, supposedly available everywhere, requires Disintegrate to craft and has a cl of 20 on the item), Sovergein Glue (similar but with cl 20 Make Whole), and Salve of Slipperiness (cl 6 Grease). Basically there's a bunch of legacy items that just have arbitrary caster levels and the occasional item that's using a spell above the minimum, and people assume you have to meet that to craft it for obvious reasons.

[weckar]

You need a high enough caster level to cast the spell. You need a caster level of 3x the enhancement bonus of the armor or weapon (amusingly, retained even after they dropped GMW/V scaling to 1/4). You need a caster level of 15 to make an intelligent item. Can you please provice page/book references for the latter two? Thank you very much. The matter of enhancement bonus concerns me in particular, because does that mean you need a WAY epic artificer to create a +10 equivalent item (CL30)?

[torrasque666]

You need a high enough caster level to cast the spell. You need a caster level of 3x the enhancement bonus of the armor or weapon (amusingly, retained even after they dropped GMW/V scaling to 1/4). You need a caster level of 15 to make an intelligent item.
Can you please provice page/book references for the latter two? Thank you very much. The matter of enhancement bonus concerns me in particular, because does that mean you need a WAY epic artificer to create a +10 equivalent item (CL30)?

The rule about requiring caster level 3x the enhancement bonus is on DMG pages 285-286 (Armor, then weapons) while the rule about intelligent magic item creation is on page 288.

[Fizban]

DMG p285-6 and 288. Other bonus equivalent abilities are not enhancement bonuses, you use the higher of the enhancement or the special ability (the ability will require some spell which will have a minimum caster level).

[torrasque666]

DMG p285-6 and 288. Other bonus equivalent abilities are not enhancement bonuses, you use the higher of the enhancement or the special ability (the ability will require some spell which will have a minimum caster level).
Well, specifically the property itself has a minimum level. Listed after the aura strength in DMG format, listed after the property line in MIC format. For example, the Ethereal Reaver enhancement has a CL of 12, when its requisite spell, see invisibility, is a Sorc/Wiz 2/Bard 3 and thus has a CL requirement of 3 (or 5 for a bard). Another example is the Distance property which has CL of 6 but its requisite spell, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, has a CL of 8. So Distance actually has a lower CL than its requisite spell.

[weckar]

Ah, that makes more sense then. Grazi.

Still think the Artificer description could have made this a tad clearer, or have provided a better reference...

[weckar]

Well, specifically the property itself has a minimum level. Listed after the aura strength in DMG format, listed after the property line in MIC format. For example, the Ethereal Reaver enhancement has a CL of 12, when its requisite spell, see invisibility, is a Sorc/Wiz 2/Bard 3 and thus has a CL requirement of 3 (or 5 for a bard). Another example is the Distance property which has CL of 6 but its requisite spell, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, has a CL of 8. So Distance actually has a lower CL than its requisite spell.But there is no rule that you need the enhancement's CL to be able to create it, right?

[torrasque666]

But there is no rule that you need the enhancement's CL to be able to create it, right?

Hmm.... technically true. The caster level in the description is the caster level of the item, period. So if someone tries to dispel a +1 Distance bow, they need to contend against a CL 6. If they wanted to try to dispel a +3 Distance Bow, it would be against a CL 9, because even when improving items you need to meet the prereqs as if you were creating it from scratch.

Sorry, did I start to ramble? Its late here.

[weckar]

No, please, ramble. You're being interesting.

What you're saying is that if you're improving an item with a new ability, you should have been able to create the Original abilities? Interesting indeed.