Boss Battle Feeling Bare-Boned

[DragonBaneDM]

Heya Playground,

So my players (fresh level 5 blastlock, Devotadin, Alchemist, and Mastermind Rogue) are coming up on their first real dungeon soon, and it's pretty cool! Giant spiders up front, dwarven bandits cooperating with a squadron of goblins, and all of it is being orchestrated by a Hobgoblin Captain who's tricked a young black dragon into thinking she's the goblins' leader instead of just their secret weapon. I've got those last two in a really cool room (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/eb/7a/ce/eb7ace251fbe95828de465aa011a8d6b.jpg) with a bunch of ledges to climb for advantage, a pit to avoid, braziers to knock over, huge pile of knives for the Alchemist to send flying with her Thunderstones, and lots of cover for the warlock and rogue to have fun with.

The problem that I'm having is that the encounter just feels super bare bones right now. I've got two powerful monsters, and because it's already a Deadly encounter I don't wanna add more to get a big multiplier. Also, I'm shy about using breath weapon totally advantageously since it can outright knock people the heck out in one lucky roll.

The dragon's name is Razor, and she's especially sadistic. She hoards knives, and is going to use a lot of her actions to pick up players and plunge them into the pile of knives. It'll be fun, and hopefully terrifying, but I'm not sure if that's a big enough "change" from the standard Young Black Dragon. Maybe I'll replace the pit with an underground river for her to hide in?

The challenge of the dragon is also a problem. I loathe the idea of having her on her own, but the second I add another monster the encounter challenge jumps up from Medium to Deadly. Even a little 1/2 CR Hobgoblin does this on it's own, let alone the CR 3 Captain. How much attention should I pay to this? I want a challenging fight, not an impossible one. I've tried hard to shy away from Deadly challenges so far. Do I rebuild my own custom CR 5 or 6 black dragon? Maybe I (reluctantly) swap her out for a White Dragon?

The goal of the dungeon is reach a dwarven town that's been blocked off by the goblins, so even if the party just books it past them without dying, they'll accomplish that goal.

Is this enough? I'm used to stuff like multistaged boss fights with paragon monsters, lots of ways to use skills that are 100% unique to the fight, and players have responded well to those in the past. I feel like I've got a cool boss here, but it just also feels a little "eh" in terms of actual mechanics, and might actually be way too hard.

[Unoriginal]

How about giving the dragon the power to animate her knives into mooks fighting for her?

Make so that it requires her to spend her breath to power them. Great way to add flavor while giving a reason why your dragon hasn't breathed on the heroes.



Aslo, remember than an adventuring group should be able to handle several Deadly encounter each adventuring day.

[DragonBaneDM]

How about giving the dragon the power to animate her knives into mooks fighting for her?

Make so that it requires her to spend her breath to power them. Great way to add flavor while giving a reason why your dragon hasn't breathed on the heroes.

That's actually kinda splendid. A really cool knife attack would let her move a pile of knives around the battlefield as well as give her something to do!


Aslo, remember than an adventuring group should be able to handle several Deadly encounter each adventuring day.

Hey thanks, I didn't know that actually. The DMG makes it seems like the adventuring day should be a rotation between Medium and Hard fights six times, so that's what I've been aiming for. What part of the rules say that, or are you just speaking from experience?

[Mith]

My perspective on Deadly encounters is that they can easily swing one way or another depending on the dice.

[DragonBaneDM]

My perspective on Deadly encounters is that they can easily swing one way or another depending on the dice.

I mean sure, I've seen Easy encounters beat up the same players who had to put half the resources and effort into Hard ones before from die rolls. Bonded accuracy is cool like that. That's why I'm kinda worried here. If I was going over the Deadly XP for my group's party by like one or two hundred I wouldn't be asking about it.

But this is going to 5,400 XP when the Deadly threshold is 4,400. Heck, since the Easy(1000), Medium (2K), and Hard (3K) are all going up by 1000 each time,

The plus side is that the Hobgoblin is rarely going to be able to take advantage of the Martial Advantage ability, and the dragon is going to be spending time/resources drowning people in knives, so the damage values aren't actually as scary as their CRs would have me believe.

[Mith]

That is fair. I was more responding to the idea of parties taking on "several" Deadly encounters.

A way to add to the encounter may be to give them terrain to exploit both ways.

[Vorpal Pete]

How about adding an ally for the PCs? Maybe the hobgoblin has a bear/ape/tiger chained to the floor and has been trying to break its spirit for training? Make it clear from the beast's attitude that it hates the goblin and the dragon and is not an ally of theirs - growling and swiping at them whenever they come near. The PCs would need to free it and stay clear of it during the fight while still lumping up on the baddies.

[denthor]

change the dragon you gave it one personality now add to she is a sadistic coward. She flees in Terror after 1/4 of her hit points are taken to her treasure hoard. There she fights to the death.

Along the way to the lair 4 cells each with a single dwarf from the village they are trying to reach. simple pull up gates 15 str. each one begs to be let out as they pass. If they stop and take them to the village good deed extra experience points. if they do not save the innocent chase the dragon let the dice decide. You gave them a chance to continue twice towards their mission completion . Parties die by making wrong choices say that before the session. You can add my job is to make it possible for you to make bad choices you choose what to do.

[DragonBaneDM]

How about adding an ally for the PCs? Maybe the hobgoblin has a bear/ape/tiger chained to the floor and has been trying to break its spirit for training? Make it clear from the beast's attitude that it hates the goblin and the dragon and is not an ally of theirs - growling and swiping at them whenever they come near. The PCs would need to free it and stay clear of it during the fight while still lumping up on the baddies.

I was thinking about the idea of an ally, but not through this lens. This is a really cool and unique idea, and I may end up using it!

Thank ya!

EDIT: Ooooo, maybe an alligator? I work with them at my job so they're one of my favorite beasties. Also, the idea of a black dragon giving the hobgoblins the order to go out and bring her a swamp predator makes sense!

[Temperjoke]

You could also add in reusable lair traps/triggers; not instant death, but ones that could make things hard for the party, or the dragon. After all, the hobgoblin in charge would have had backup plans in case the dragon started causing trouble.

Examples: stepping on a particular spot causes metal cage bars to drop in a line across the room, with space wide enough for humanoids, but close enough to hinder the dragon, taking your foot off causes them to retract. A clever party could use this trigger to either hit the dragon, or interfere with it's movements, but if they're unlucky, something that lands on it could trap them in closer to the dragon. Another trigger drops a ton of daggers into the room (emergency bribe offering for the dragon installed by the hobgoblin), maybe they'll hit the dragon, maybe they'll hit the party.

[DragonBaneDM]

You could also add in reusable lair traps/triggers; not instant death, but ones that could make things hard for the party, or the dragon. After all, the hobgoblin in charge would have had backup plans in case the dragon started causing trouble.

Examples: stepping on a particular spot causes metal cage bars to drop in a line across the room, with space wide enough for humanoids, but close enough to hinder the dragon, taking your foot off causes them to retract. A clever party could use this trigger to either hit the dragon, or interfere with it's movements, but if they're unlucky, something that lands on it could trap them in closer to the dragon. Another trigger drops a ton of daggers into the room (emergency bribe offering for the dragon installed by the hobgoblin), maybe they'll hit the dragon, maybe they'll hit the party.

So I got another idea for this: I was going to try to have stalactites on the ceiling. First time someone's attack or spell misses, they hit a stalactite and it falls harmlessly, creating some difficult terrain. The party can take advantage of that if they want, and the hobgoblins are only going to follow suit if the party shows them how it works, first.

[lunaticfringe]

Make the captain a Stealther to harass the Cover exploiters? A largely glossed over aspect of mechanics is that it's hard to keep an eye of someone when something bigger & scarier is around.

If I had a Dragon on my side I'd try to sneak around & flank the enemy. Flush them outta cover or kick them off a ledge when they aren't looking.