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Pauwel
2007-07-31, 03:45 PM
I just looked through Races of Destiny, and I found a race called skulks.

They're awesome for stealth.

They get +8 Move Silently, +15 (!) Hide and they can use the Run action while hiding with no penalties.

I don't think they're overpowered, since they aren't good at anything else and they have 2 HDs and a +1 LA, but I never see anyone mentioning them here. How come?

lukelightning
2007-07-31, 03:48 PM
'Cuz hiding isn't that great in D&D. There are too many ways to be detected.

JellyPooga
2007-07-31, 06:08 PM
'Cuz hiding isn't that great in D&D. There are too many ways to be detected.

What, like the Spot skill? Sure, it's easy to detect a magically invisible person, but plain ol' hidin' with the Hide skill (AFAIK) is only 'countered' by the Spot skill. Sure, someone with Scent could realise that you're there somewhere, but would still have to actually find you, same goes for someone with Tremorsense or maybe Blindsense/sight (depending). Darkvision sure ain't gonna do squat, neither is Low-Light vision or any of the magical doo-dahs like True Seeing or Detect Invisibility (or whatever it's called).

The Skulks +15 to Hide checks is the one reason I won't play them...it's too good. Even at level 1 (ECL 4) they're averaging 30's (with the potential for 40's) on their Hide checks if they take a Class with Hide as a class skill. Added to their other abilities, it means that they are all but undetectable...sure it's cool, but I get the distinct impression that it wouldn't be particularly fun to play as a PC...I see them more as NPC's really; the "Assassin the Heroes have to track down and question regarding the Kings murder" or whatever.

Fax Celestis
2007-07-31, 06:14 PM
Dark Skulks are even worse. ECL 4, I have HiPS and a +23+Dex on my hide check.

Collin152
2007-07-31, 06:24 PM
Dark Skulks are even worse. ECL 4, I have HiPS and a +23+Dex on my hide check.

Gasp! You may as well let them become invisible at will without being subject to effects that see through invisibity!
After all, isn't invisibility just a +40 to your hide check with the ability to hide without cover?

Arbitrarity
2007-07-31, 07:19 PM
Nope, it's +20 when not active, +40 when not moving. If not attacking/running, etc, they're effectively invisible, however, with a probable +27 or so. Furthermore, get them the darkstalker feat. Then they can be one of those builds that killed nearly any challenge by virtue of bypassing all defenses.

TheDarkOne
2007-07-31, 07:25 PM
What, like the Spot skill? Sure, it's easy to detect a magically invisible person, but plain ol' hidin' with the Hide skill (AFAIK) is only 'countered' by the Spot skill. Sure, someone with Scent could realise that you're there somewhere, but would still have to actually find you, same goes for someone with Tremorsense or maybe Blindsense/sight (depending). Darkvision sure ain't gonna do squat, neither is Low-Light vision or any of the magical doo-dahs like True Seeing or Detect Invisibility (or whatever it's called).

Detect Magic with 3 rounds of concentration, or better, arcane sight, will let you know exactly where a character who is just hidden is, assuming he has any magical items. Although, you still can't see them unless you get a good spot roll.

Also, you can't hide from something with blindsight unless you have the feat from lords of madness that lets you do that, and there's a relatively cheap item in the magic item compendium that gives you blindsight 30ft I think.