Skill Shrinkage

[tedcahill2]

I had another thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523470-Skills-How-many-is-too-many) discussion the quantity of skills and the merits of grouping some skills together. I want to have a focus group about what the skill groups should be.

The Goal: Reduce the skills list, by grouping skills, without losing the variety of skills that allow for flexibility and customization.

Background Skills: I plan to use the background skill variant, so I plan to leave in some skills that would otherwise be considered useless, however, feel free to bring them up for discussion because this skill set should apply to non-background variants too.

Here's what I'm working with so far. (Background skills are noted with a B)

Acrobatics (DEX): Combines Balance and Tumble, can also be used to make jump checks at a penalty.

AppriaseB (INT): I want to keep appraise because I like when players and shopkeepers can haggle over the price of rarities.

ArtistryB (WIS): like craft, this skill is many skills. It involves creating a piece of art, a poem, song, sculpture, painting, etc. I keyed it to WIS because I feel that art is an expression of self, and is better suited by WIS over INT.

Athletics (STR): combines climb, jump, and swim

Concentration (WIS): Unlike many I like the concentration skill for casting in combat, however, the ability to maintain focus has more to do with WIS than CON in my opinion, so I changed the stat it's keyed to. Additional, I'm working on a new use for the concentration skill here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523652-New-Use-for-Concentration-Combat-Focus&p=21971899#post21971899).

CraftB (INT): No changes

Deception (CHA): Combines Bluff and Disguise

Disable Device (INT): Combines Disable Device and Open Lock

Escape Artist (DEX): No changes

ForgeryB (INT): This is a skill that could easily be wrapped into a craft skill, but I don't think it should be a universal class skill the way craft is.

Handle AnimalB (CHA): I considered combining ride into handle animal, but they are really too different in my mind.

Heal (WIS): No changes.

Knowledge (INT)
-Divine (replaces religion)
-Dungeoneering
-Local
-Nature
-Psionics
-Cosmology (replaces the planes)
-EngineeringB
-GeographyB
-HistoryB
-NobilityB

LinguisticsB (INT): Decipher Script and Speak language. I think a language every 2 points may be excessive though, every 4 maybe?

Perception (WIS): Combines Spot and Listen

PerformB (CHA): No change.

My goal with Artistry, Craft, and Perform we cover all of the art and creation skills using each of the mental stats.

Persuasion (CHA): Combines Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate.

ProfessionB (WIS): No changes

Psicraft (INT): No changes

Ride (DEX): No changes

Search (INT): I considered combining search and gather information into a skill called Investigation.

Sleight of HandB (DEX): Use Rope is gone, and instead a sleight of hand check can be used in it's place. I considered calling this skill Thievery.

Spellcraft (INT): No changes

I'm still on the fence about combining Psicraft and Spellcraft into Magic Craft. I can't decide if I want there to be an inherent difference in spells/powers, or an inherent similarity. The same would apply to the Use Device skills below.

Stealth (DEX): Combines Hide and Move Silently.

Survival (WIS): The flavor of this skill lends itself to also being used in place of a Use Rope skill.

Use Magic Device (CHA): No change

Use Psionic Device (CHA): No change

[frogglesmash]

Here's some changes I would make to this.

1. Take jump out of acrobatics and replace it with escape artist. Jump doesn't make sense to me as a dex based action.

2. The usefulness of appraise is rather limited. Instead I'd make it a function of relevant craft, artistry and knowledge skills.

3. The Arts are the domain of charisma, knowledge is the domain of intelligence, and philosophy is the domain of wisdom. For this reason I think artistry should be cha based.

4. Combine concentration with autohypnosis so monks have a reason to put points into it.

5.I don't think bluff and disguise should be combined because the ability to make a convincing costume does not correlate with the ability to lie. Instead combine bluff, diplomacy, and gather information as these are all interpersonal skills.

6. I think combining handle animal and ride is a good idea, I also think it should be keyed off of wisdom as much of animal training is being able to observe and understand animal behaviour.

7. The ability to frighten, and the ability to make reasoned arguments/ask pertinent questions are not very similar, therefore intimidate should be kept seperate.

8. Players should have the option to use either charisma, or strength for intimidate checks for obvious reasons.

9. I don't think you should change the name of sleight of hand to thievery since that is not its only purpose.

10. Spellcraft should be a function of knowledge Arcana, and psicraft a function of knowledge psionics.

11. I'd combine survival and knowledge nature, the two skills seem far too similar to not be the same.

12. In games where you're using magic/psionics transparency I would strongly consider combining skills that are specific to either eg. Use magic device and use psionic device become one skill.

[Mendicant]

Where's sense motive?

I don't like what rolling intimidate with diplomacy does to the design space. That's a piece of granularity that ought to remain.

Gather information could be rolled in with diplomacy, though I like it better as 4e's streetwise (wis). Kill kn. local and farm out its functions to other knowledges, survival, and streetwise.

[tedcahill2]

1. Take jump out of acrobatics and replace it with escape artist. Jump doesn't make sense to me as a dex based action.
I think being able to use Acrobatics (at say a -5) in place of Athletics makes sense. Yes jumping is more about strength, but there's also a form to it. I think acrobatics does a good job of capture that form. Escape artist however makes no sense to me.


2. The usefulness of appraise is rather limited. Instead I'd make it a function of relevant craft, artistry and knowledge skills.
How would this work? You can't craft a gemstone, what skill would appraise gems.


3. The Arts are the domain of charisma, knowledge is the domain of intelligence, and philosophy is the domain of wisdom. For this reason I think artistry should be cha based.
I disagree that the arts are the domain of CHA. Performing is absolutely the domain of CHA, but you don't need to be charismatic, in any sense of the word, to be able to paint. If INT is what you know and CHA is how you're perceived, then WIS is who you really are. Thus WIS is truly important to expressing oneself.


4. Combine concentration with autohypnosis so monks have a reason to put points into it.
Concentration does indeed encompass both Autohypnosis as well as Control Shape.


5.I don't think bluff and disguise should be combined because the ability to make a convincing costume does not correlate with the ability to lie. Instead combine bluff, diplomacy, and gather information as these are all interpersonal skills.While I agree with this in many ways, to Disguise is less about crafting the costume, and more about acting the part.


6. I think combining handle animal and ride is a good idea, I also think it should be keyed off of wisdom as much of animal training is being able to observe and understand animal behavior. I'm not an animal trainer, but isn't it more about being able to influence the actions of the animal?


7. The ability to frighten, and the ability to make reasoned arguments/ask pertinent questions are not very similar, therefore intimidate should be kept separate.

8. Players should have the option to use either charisma, or strength for intimidate checks for obvious reasons.
As a whole I agree, but they both come down to how persuasive you can be. Using the intimidation action would allow the use of STR over CHA however. So even though a Paladin and a Barbarian may technically have the same ranks in the skill, it's very likely the the Paladin with be much better at Diplomacy and the Barbarian much better at Intimidation.


9. I don't think you should change the name of sleight of hand to thievery since that is not its only purpose.
I considered calling it Thievery, and having it combine Use Rope, Sleight of Hand, and Escape Artist.


10. Spellcraft should be a function of knowledge Arcana, and psicraft a function of knowledge psionics.

12. In games where you're using magic/psionics transparency I would strongly consider making combining skills that are specific to either eg. Use magic device and use psionic device become one skill. Yes to these. I'm still deciding if I want magic and psionics to be captured under the term magic, or kept seperate.


11. I'd combine survival and knowledge nature, the two skills seem far too similar to not be the same.
Thought of this too. Still unsure.

[tedcahill2]

Where's sense motive?

I don't like what rolling intimidate with diplomacy does to the design space. That's a piece of granularity that ought to remain.

Gather information could be rolled in with diplomacy, though I like it better as 4e's streetwise (wis). Kill kn. local and farm out its functions to other knowledges, survival, and streetwise.

I straight up forgot Sense Motive. Although I considered an Investigation skill that combines Search, Gather Information, and Sense Motive. I kind of like Streetwise to replace Kn (local).

[rel]

a few thoughts:

- Can you think of any stories that would be improved by an ability to know if someone was lying? Remove both sense motive and bluff, no one need ever be sure if someone is lying.

- combine all crafts into a single universal craft skill. So the PC crafter can forge a sword and still make a sled to drag loot out of the dungeon. This can also cover artistic stuff that is made before being displayed, sculpture, painting, etc.

-break acrobatics into athletics (strength based stuff; jump, climb, swim) and acrobatics (dex based stuff; tumble, escape artist, use rope )

-roll forgery into craft probably opposed by knowledge

-make disguise / perform the same skill and have it cover anything artistic that is done in real time while your audience watches; singing, speaking, dancing, acting.

-autohypnosis + concentrate makes sense if you are combining skills

-roll decipher script into knowledge engineering

-roll survival into knowledge nature

-remove appraise and handle haggling as part of persuasion.

-roll profession into knowledge as appropriate

-roll heal into knowledge as appropriate i.e. to heal a creature roll the knowledge you use to identify it

-if you decide to split diplomacy and intimidate make them function differently. i.e. diplomacy sometimes works, he roll is to determine if it does. Intimidate always works, the roll is to stop the intimidated from acting against you in the future

-wrap handle animal into knowledge as appropriate or persuasion

[Deophaun]

How would this work? You can't craft a gemstone, what skill would appraise gems.
And gemcutters around the world wept.

I disagree that the arts are the domain of CHA. Performing is absolutely the domain of CHA, but you don't need to be charismatic, in any sense of the word, to be able to paint. If INT is what you know and CHA is how you're perceived, then WIS is who you really are.
CHA is not how you are perceived: it is your sense of self.

I considered calling it Thievery, and having it combine Use Rope, Sleight of Hand, and Escape Artist.
I have zero idea what Use Rope has to do with Sleight of Hand or Escape Artist. It has everything to do with Survival; try climbing mountains, casting ridge lines, or setting snares without using rope. Now go to Vegas and escape from a straight jacket while juggling flaming swords and forcing Penn Jillette to pick the Ace of Clubs without using rope.

[frogglesmash]

I think being able to use Acrobatics (at say a -5) in place of Athletics makes sense. Yes jumping is more about strength, but there's also a form to it. I think acrobatics does a good job of capture that form. Escape artist however makes no sense to me.

The "form" is represented by your ranks in athletics. I think of athletics as the ability to perform certain actions in as efficient a manner as possible, whereas acrobatics is the ability to have total awareness/control over your body. If you think about it like this putting escape artist in acrobatics makes more sense, and allowing it to be used for jump checks makes less sense.


How would this work? You can't craft a gemstone, what skill would appraise gems.

Craft Jewelry. Profession Skills should also be able to appraise now that I think about it, so profession jewel cutter could also work.


I disagree that the arts are the domain of CHA. Performing is absolutely the domain of CHA, but you don't need to be charismatic, in any sense of the word, to be able to paint. If INT is what you know and CHA is how you're perceived, then WIS is who you really are. Thus WIS is truly important to expressing oneself.

This one is mostly a matter of opinion so we might as well agree to disagree.


Concentration does indeed encompass both Autohypnosis as well as Control Shape.

Neato.


While I agree with this in many ways, to Disguise is less about crafting the costume, and more about acting the part.

You make a valid point, however I still think combining it with bluff is a bad idea, especially since I think it make much more sense to combine bluff with diplomacy, and gather information. A better solution would be to combine it with perform (acting)


I'm not an animal trainer, but isn't it more about being able to influence the actions of the animal?

To influence an animals behaviour you have to understand what makes it behave as it does, this makes handle animal/ride very similar to sense motive in my mind.


As a whole I agree, but they both come down to how persuasive you can be. Using the intimidation action would allow the use of STR over CHA however. So even though a Paladin and a Barbarian may technically have the same ranks in the skill, it's very likely the the Paladin with be much better at Diplomacy and the Barbarian much better at Intimidation.

The main difference between bluff/diplomacy/gather information and intimidate is that the former all require you to have some understanding of human behaviour i.e. what what they want/don't want, and how they think, whereas the latter only requires you to understand how to elicit fear. In other words: One makes people want to do as you say, and the other makes them afraid of not doing what you say. The end result is the same, but the methods are very different.



I considered calling it Thievery, and having it combine Use Rope, Sleight of Hand, and Escape Artist.

I still wouldn't Call it thievery though, as these skills have much more diverse applications than that name would suggest. I do think that this is an appropriate place for acrobatics, though I still think it makes more sense as a part of acrobatics.



Yes to these. I'm still deciding if I want magic and psionics to be captured under the term magic, or kept seperate.

This should probably change from campaign.


Thought of this too. Still unsure.

My reasoning behind this one was that it seems silly for a character to be able to know all there is about plants and animals, including their properties, their prefered environments, and their appearance, but still be completely unable to locate any of them when they're in an actual forest.




a few thoughts:

- Can you think of any stories that would be improved by an ability to know if someone was lying? Remove both sense motive and bluff, no one need ever be sure if someone is lying.

The purpose of the rules is to provide an unbiased way of determining whether or not lies are believable from the perspective of PCs and NPCs. You may not like this, but many do.


- combine all crafts into a single universal craft skill. So the PC crafter can forge a sword and still make a sled to drag loot out of the dungeon. This can also cover artistic stuff that is made before being displayed, sculpture, painting, etc.

This could be appropriate for campaigns where the PCs craft very little, but otherwise it lacks too much realism for my tastes.


-break acrobatics into athletics (strength based stuff; jump, climb, swim) and acrobatics (dex based stuff; tumble, escape artist, use rope )
Use rope really doesn't belong there.


-roll forgery into craft probably opposed by knowledge

I think OP wants to Forgery to remain Somewhat exclusive to certain classes.


-make disguise / perform the same skill and have it cover anything artistic that is done in real time while your audience watches; singing, speaking, dancing, acting.
Thi makes sense so long as long as musical instruments are not included, otherwise see my thoughts on your proposed changes to Craft.


-autohypnosis + concentrate makes sense if you are combining skills

Yup.


-roll decipher script into knowledge engineering

I have no idea how this is supposed to make any sense.


-roll survival into knowledge nature

Yup.


-remove appraise and handle haggling as part of persuasion.

Appraisal is not haggling, it's the ability to assess an item's worth,


-roll profession into knowledge as appropriate

It would make more sense to combine Profession with Craft as appropriate.


-roll heal into knowledge as appropriate i.e. to heal a creature roll the knowledge you use to identify it

This makes no sense, knowledge of a creature is not even close to the same as knowledge of medicine.


-if you decide to split diplomacy and intimidate make them function differently. i.e. diplomacy sometimes works, he roll is to determine if it does. Intimidate always works, the roll is to stop the intimidated from acting against you in the future

This seems unnecessary.


-wrap handle animal into knowledge as appropriate or persuasion

Persuasion makes far more sense than knowledge as far as I'm concerned.

[frogglesmash]

I have zero idea what Use Rope has to do with Sleight of Hand or Escape Artist. It has everything to do with Survival; try climbing mountains, casting ridge lines, or setting snares without using rope. Now go to Vegas and escape from a straight jacket while juggling flaming swords and forcing Penn Jillette to pick the Ace of Clubs without using rope.

I think the idea is to put all the stuff that requires manual dexterity in the same skill, although that does leave escape artist in a slightly awkward position.

[Waker]

Others have mentioned some fixes for other skills, but one you should consider combining is Forgery with Artistry. At its core, Forgery is about being able to mimic the handwriting of another individual, duplicating seal used on a document and otherwise just making something that looks as good as the original.

[Mendicant]

Jump should be broken up. Most of its functions could be rolled into athletics, but jumping down without damage should be acrobatics.

I also think you're overestimating the functional difference that Str vs. Cha to persuade will make. Leaving the other arguments for keeping intimidate separate from diplomacy aside, the choice is a satisfying one from a player perspective, and I think that's what it really comes down to when your talking skill list consolidation. The number of players who want to make a character who is good at hiding but not at walking quietly is pretty small. The number who want to be good at climbing but not using ropes is probably nonexistant. The number of people who want to be good at charming people but not at being scary, and vice-versa, is actually pretty big, though. I think the game loses something without that distinction really available.

[Seerow]

Just separating these out for my own sanity to make it easier to tell what is where


AppriaseB (INT): I want to keep appraise because I like when players and shopkeepers can haggle over the price of rarities.
ArtistryB (WIS): like craft, this skill is many skills. It involves creating a piece of art, a poem, song, sculpture, painting, etc. I keyed it to WIS because I feel that art is an expression of self, and is better suited by WIS over INT.
CraftB (INT): No changes
ForgeryB (INT):
Handle AnimalB (CHA):
Knowledge (INT)
-EngineeringB
-GeographyB
-HistoryB
-NobilityB
LinguisticsB (INT): Decipher Script and Speak language. I think a language every 2 points may be excessive though, every 4 maybe?
PerformB (CHA): No change.
ProfessionB (WIS): No changes
Sleight of HandB (DEX): Use Rope is gone, and instead a sleight of hand check can be used in it's place. I considered calling this skill Thievery.



So my thoughts on this list: more skills than I'm used to seeing. I like the idea of separating Craft and Artistry. I feel like Forgery is a very good skill to make into a background skill (remember, it gets opposed only by Forgery. While it's underused in many campaigns, just as many campaigns can be completely turned on their head by one character training the skill and making liberal use of it), though I do like the idea of rolling the general principle into Artistry and using Deception alongside it. (So a successful forgery has to pass inspection with an Artistry vs Whatever check, then the lie behind it has to make sense with a Deception vs Sense Motive check. So forging a deed to an established keep or a decree of judgement from the King needs to be believable or you have to have a good enough bluff to make it work regardless).

Also, as a background skill I feel like Decipher Script and Speak Language are both good enough on their own. Combining them together makes them notably better than most other background skills (but still too weak for an active skill).

In the thread you linked, I mentioned I use Background skills as well. Personally I made all Knowledges background skills. Half becoming background and half staying active is just weird. Whether you study geography or the plains, it should be the same investment. The real problem is the ones you kept as active have a meaningful use for monster identification. Make that a single Lore skill, and keep all of the Knowledges as background skills.

Not a big fan of Handle Animal as a background skill, though if it stays exactly as is it fits. Personally I feel like Mundanes need a way to get mounts that are more durable than tissue paper without a special class feature. Handle Animal being usable to grant bonus hit dice to a creature should be a thing.


Acrobatics (DEX): Combines Balance and Tumble, can also be used to make jump checks at a penalty.
Athletics (STR): combines climb, jump, and swim
Concentration (WIS): Unlike many I like the concentration skill for casting in combat, however, the ability to maintain focus has more to do with WIS than CON in my opinion, so I changed the stat it's keyed to. Additional, I'm working on a new use for the concentration skill here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?523652-New-Use-for-Concentration-Combat-Focus&p=21971899#post21971899).
Deception (CHA): Combines Bluff and Disguise
Disable Device (INT): Combines Disable Device and Open Lock
Escape Artist (DEX): No changes
Heal (WIS): No changes.
Knowledge (INT):
-Divine (replaces religion)
-Dungeoneering
-Local
-Nature
-Psionics
-Cosmology (replaces the planes)
Perception (WIS): Combines Spot and Listen
Persuasion (CHA): Combines Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate.
Psicraft (INT): No changes
Ride (DEX): No changes
Search (INT): I considered combining search and gather information into a skill called Investigation.
Spellcraft (INT): No changes
Stealth (DEX): Combines Hide and Move Silently.
Survival (WIS): The flavor of this skill lends itself to also being used in place of a Use Rope skill.
Use Magic Device (CHA): No change
Use Psionic Device (CHA): No change


As mentioned above, I don't like Knowledge Skills here. Unlike others, I generally like the break of Deception/Influence, it is something I picked up from Shadowrun and have liked for some time. That said, I typically see Influence as more of a 1 on 1 thing, so Gather Information I prefer to leave separate. I can understand some of the arguments for keeping Intimidate/Playing nice separate, but I think they easily fit as different uses of the same skill. Make intimidating have more situational modifiers (including one for being able to use Str if yours is higher), but prompt a more hostile reaction, while Diplomancing is reserved more for calm talky situations but has the possibility of leaving everyone leaving feeling good about the result.

Personally I also use Athletics, but have it also grant the ability to increase run speed (every DC 10 for +5ft on a run check, +5ft for every 5 after that). Not sure I like Acrobatics having jump, I get that Pathfinder did it, but I don't like it there either. Str has just the one skill, at least let it keep what that skill does somewhat unique.

Not a big fan of the idea of combining Search/Gather Information. I've seen a lot of people combine Search and Perception, not a big fan of that either. Search in general is just a skill that is worth enough to be its own thing, between trap finding, secret doors, and loot, it does a lot of things adventurers typically want.

I don't think UMD and UPD deserve to remain separate, they are both doing effectively the same thing and there are so few psionic items out there just roll em together. I know UMD is really powerful, but making the merge keeps things cleaner, maintains transparency, and doesn't noticably increase the power level of UMD.

If Heal is sticking on the active list, it needs to be improved. Even just something like use a healing kit charge as a full round action to give a bunch of temp HP (to a max of the target's max HP) would be a pretty solid starting point. Or even let healing ranks improve magical healing somehow. Whatever. As it stands now nobody takes it, and even with increased skill access from condensed skills and background skills, nobody will take it.

[Deophaun]

I think the idea is to put all the stuff that requires manual dexterity in the same skill, although that does leave escape artist in a slightly awkward position.
As someone with sausages for hands, rope use doesn't require manual dexterity. It just requires knowledge of the various knots.

[heavyfuel]

8. Players should have the option to use either charisma, or strength for intimidate checks for obvious reasons.


Is it obvious? In D&D you can have 20 Str and have your ass handed to you by a guy with 8 Str and a third your size.

Str means very little in a game with levels, magic, and other sources of damage. Force of personality (Charisma) is much better in these situations, as you may give off the idea that you're much stronger than you actually are (hence why Bluff gives you a synergy bonus to intimidate)



I don't like what rolling intimidate with diplomacy does to the design space. That's a piece of granularity that ought to remain.

Gather information could be rolled in with diplomacy, though I like it better as 4e's streetwise (wis). Kill kn. local and farm out its functions to other knowledges, survival, and streetwise.

Many videogames have them both rolled into one skill, but yeah, I don't really like this idea. People can be very diplomatic, but couldn't intimidade a child. Sure, high charisma helps both, but in general they should be different.

I only played 4e once, but the streetwise skill was totally cool.

[Deophaun]

Is it obvious? In D&D you can have 20 Str and have your ass handed to you by a guy with 8 Str and a third your size.
Intimidation isn't just about physical threats, either. I don't have to be muscular to threaten your job, or your reputation, or your family. In fact, a beating is probably one of the less scary things to threaten someone with.

[Elkad]

Jump should be broken up. Most of its functions could be rolled into athletics, but jumping down without damage should be acrobatics.

Str-based is fine too.

https://i.imgur.com/NWUe0YE.gif

[Mendicant]

Or even let healing ranks improve magical healing somehow. Whatever. As it stands now nobody takes it, and even with increased skill access from condensed skills and background skills, nobody will take it.

Which is too bad, because people want to. My current hack is to:
A: Allow a minute-long Heal check to accompany cure spells. DC 15 empowers the spell, and DC 20 empowers and maximizes. You can make this a full-round action by upping the DC by 5. The idea being that someone actively setting a bone or stitching a wound covers some of the ground the spell would have to, letting it mostly just finish the job by accelerating the body's natural ability to heal. For fluff purposes, this also reduces scarring.

B: With a skill trick, Treat Deadly Wounds (https://sites.google.com/site/pathfinderogc/skills/heal#TOC-Treat-Deadly-Wounds-) also acts as Lesser Restoration if you beat DC 25.

Not sure if gating it with a skill trick is really necessary. (I came up with this while brainstorming skill tricks, rather than as a ground-floor fix for heal.)

[Gildedragon]

Which is too bad, because people want to. My current hack is to:
A: Allow a minute-long Heal check to accompany cure spells. DC 15 empowers the spell, and DC 20 empowers and maximizes. You can make this a full-round action by upping the DC by 5. The idea being that someone actively setting a bone or stitching a wound covers some of the ground the spell would have to, letting it mostly just finish the job by accelerating the body's natural ability to heal. For fluff purposes, this also reduces scarring.
I'd do this. (Healing) spells can be buffed with a heal check. I'd even allow it to negate the level loss from Raise Dead.

And I'd let mundane healing checks let remove status effects, even negative levels, etc...

Alternatively remove Heal and Kn Local... fold much of Kn Local into Gather Information and create Kn Medical (Wis or Int) to identify humanoids and do all the stuff Heal can do (first aid etc)

[zergling.exe]

So people were suggestion rolling disguise into perform. I'll just point out that RAW has two factors to actually disguising yourself: Disguise for appearing to be someone else, and Bluff for acting like someone else.

[rel]

and one thing I forgot to mention. Remove linguistics as a skill. It doesn't function like other skills and doesn't see much use.

Give everyone 3 or 4 languages by default and add a feat to let you talk to anyone.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Not sure quite which of your threads is most appropriate for this, but here goes:

The biggest difficulty with consolidating skills, methinks, is that the system wasn't designed for that. It forces you to do a lot of translation for when PrCs require, say, 5 ranks of Jump and 8 ranks of Balance, and you have an item of +10 Tumble, but you combined those into one skill. It's not exactly difficult, but it is clunky... and as you noted in your other thread, the lack of granularity sometimes hurts.

My solution for a while now has been what I call "linked skills." Rather than officially merging, say, Open Lock and Disable Device into Thievery, you declare the skills "linked." Investing ranks in one skill gives you an equal number of ranks in all linked skills, up to the normal cap. You get the most important benefit of merging (skill points go farther) while retaining the granularity that comes from the long list and skill-specific bonuses.

I link

Autohypnosis and Concentrate
Balance and Tumble
Bluff and Disguise
Climb, Jump, and Swim
Disable Device and Open Lock
Handle Animal and Ride
Hide and Move Silently
Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft
Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Geography), and Survival.
Listen, Search, and Spot

and it works pretty well; characters with 4+Int ranks generally come out decently rounded, while those with more wind up seriously tricked-out.