Could Xykon become a draco-lich?

[gooddragon1]

Just wondering if Xykon could become a draco-lich through some method or another?

With this thread we have would and could taken care of, but not should. Probably have to be another type of lich though.

[DataNinja]

Just wondering if Xykon could become a draco-lich

As far as I know, though I'm certainly no expert in 3.5e, you need to be a dragon to become a dracolich.

[factotum]

What Dark Shadow said. Draco-lich isn't an acquirable template, it's what you get when you convert a dragon into a lich.

[gooddragon1]

As far as I know, though I'm certainly no expert in 3.5e, you need to be a dragon to become a dracolich.


What Dark Shadow said. Draco-lich isn't an acquirable template, it's what you get when you convert a dragon into a lich.

I've heard that a non-beholder can become a beholder mage through cheese. Is it possible through cheese for Xykon to become a draco-lich?

[Razade]

I've heard that a non-beholder can become a beholder mage through cheese. Is it possible through cheese for Xykon to become a draco-lich?

He'd somehow need to...come back alive and become a half dragon through some means as that changes his type Dragon...and then he could? Maybe? He could...try to Reincarnate into a Kobold and then take Dragonwrought which would grant him the Dragon Type. Then he could do it. . Why though? The answer is Xykon can't become a Dracolich (there's no hyphen). Even if he could, he isn't. He's not going to become a Dracolich.

[gooddragon1]

He'd somehow need to...come back alive and become a half dragon through some means as that changes his type Dragon...and then he could? Maybe? He could...try to Reincarnate into a Kobold and then take Dragonwrought which would grant him the Dragon Type. Then he could do it. . Why though? The answer is Xykon can't become a Dracolich (there's no hyphen). Even if he could, he isn't. He's not going to become a Dracolich.

Why is a question for practical optimization. This is theoretical optimization (though maybe not actually optimization as much as theory). Why not?

[Kish]

If this is a question for theoretical optimization rather than something that actually relates to the comic, what's it doing in the OotS section?

[gooddragon1]

If this is a question for theoretical optimization rather than something that actually relates to the comic, what's it doing in the OotS section?

It's about an oots character rather than just a nonspecific lich. It's like semi humorous theoretical optimization. Like playing a psionic sandwich.

[Goblin_Priest]

Or, more interestingly: Could Xykon ascend to godhood?

:smallamused:

[goodpeople25]

Or, more interestingly: Could Xykon ascend to godhood?

:smallamused:
Can you really see Xykon retraining as a wizard? :smallbiggrin:

[Razade]

Why is a question for practical optimization. This is theoretical optimization (though maybe not actually optimization as much as theory). Why not?


If this is a question for theoretical optimization rather than something that actually relates to the comic, what's it doing in the OotS section?

Kish basically summed it up.


Or, more interestingly: Could Xykon ascend to godhood?

:smallamused:

The answer to this is yes. We already know that mortals have ascended in the form of the Elven Pantheon. So it seems OotS works on the concept of "Belief/Worship = Godhood" like Faerun. Who knows how it works exactly, but the lore is there.

[Riftwolf]

Or, more interestingly: Could Xykon ascend to godhood?

:smallamused:

He certainly could, but I doubt he would. Personality-wise, he's never cared much for amassing followers, much less listening to their needs (unless they directly served his and weren't being boring while doing it). Godhood would be an office job to him.

[Ruck]

Or, more interestingly: Could Xykon ascend to godhood?

:smallamused:

Could God-Lich Xykon make a cup of coffee so good even he could taste it?

[Razade]

Could God-Lich Xykon make a cup of coffee so good even he could taste it?

Yeah, because D&D Gods aren't omnipotent.

[Ruck]

That seems more like an argument for "No."

[dethkruzer]

Couldn't he just have a few instances of polymorph any object cast on himself so as to gradually turn himself into a dragon?

[Goblin_Priest]

That seems more like an argument for "No."

Yea, I was thinking the same.

[Porthos]

Couldn't he just have a few instances of polymorph any object cast on himself so as to gradually turn himself into a dragon?

Still has to deal with that pesky 'not-being-alive-or-dead' situation.

To sum up, Xykon have to come back to life (which FIRST involves someone killing him), THEN turn into a dragon permanently and THEN become a lich all over again.

Are there other shortcuts out there in 3.5? With dozens of splatbooks and other sources, I would be surprised if there weren't, mostly beginning and ending with wish engines. But functionally speaking far as I know it's the Become Alive ===> Become a Dragon ===> Become a Lich Again path.

[Deliverance]

I've heard that a non-beholder can become a beholder mage through cheese. Is it possible through cheese for Xykon to become a draco-lich?
Only through digesting copious amounts of Rocquefort, so if your campaign setting doesn't include southern France you are out of luck. Even if it does, the caves necessary to the production process in a pre-industrial society may be inhabited by living dragons, who are unwilling to give up their cheese, so you should expect to have a fight on your hands.

[littlebum2002]

Hey guys, so I've got this human fighter, but I want him to be BIG. Like he would be awesome as Large, but Huge would be even better. Is there any way to permanently change my character's size? I'm allowed to use any official splatbooks.

Wait, what? Why does this belong in this forum? Uhhh. the fighter is Roy! Yea, that's right! Can ...umm....Roy permanently change his size if he wants to?


My point is, just because you named your theoretical Lich "Xykon" in no way makes this thought experiment related to this comic and therefore this thread doesn't belong here.

[TheNecrocomicon]

If this is a question for theoretical optimization rather than something that actually relates to the comic, what's it doing in the OotS section?


My point is, just because you named your theoretical Lich "Xykon" in no way makes this thought project related to this comic and therefore this thread doesn't belong here.

But they're asking about Xykon, or at least relating their thought experiment specifically to him, so really there's not enough grounds to summarily banish this to the outer darkness where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And meanwhile, a thread about "when the Sapphire Guard learned about the Crimson Mantle" has now devolved into a tangled mess of assertions and counter-assertions about the tactical outcome of a battle between a theoretical lich that happens to be named Xykon and a theoretical mass of soldiers that happens to be named the Azure City armed forces.

So really, where does this train of thought stop? How many threads are irrelevant in your view? Good thing they don't hire you as mods, because then the board would be even more dead between comics.

[littlebum2002]

But they're asking about Xykon, or at least relating their thought experiment specifically to him, so really there's not enough grounds to summarily banish this to the outer darkness where there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Right, in the same way my thought experiment was asking about Roy.

They're not really asking about Xykon. This has nothing to do with him. This question should just be "should any Random Lich be turned into a dracolich?"

If you think this is about Xykon, answer me one question and I'll admit you're rightt. How does the answer to the question "Could Xykon be turned into a dracolich?" differ, at all, from the answer to the question "Could a Random Lich be turned into dracolich?"

I'll go ahead and assume your answer will be "It doesn't", which means this question isn't really about Xykon. It's about a Random Lich who OP happened to call "Xykon" to try and post in a more active forum. Does this Random Lich have any of Xykon's qualities? It doesn't matter, because the Random Lich's personality, spells, level, or stats have no bearing on the question at hand. Just like how none of Roy's attributes mattered in my question about a Random Fighter guy.

Now, if the question would be "If Xykon had the ability, would he want to become a dracolich?", this would be a totally different case, and that thread would definitely belong here, because that question would be different for Xykon than for any other Random Lich.





So really, where does this train of thought stop? How many threads are irrelevant in your view? Good thing they don't hire you as mods, because then the board would be even more dead between comics.

So where does THIS train of thought stop? How many threads are relevant in your view? Should we just open this forum up to any thread about any subject?

[Psyren]

Couldn't he just have a few instances of polymorph any object cast on himself so as to gradually turn himself into a dragon?

Immune to polymorph.


Can you really see Xykon retraining as a wizard? :smallbiggrin:

Ba-dum-tish



So really, where does this train of thought stop? How many threads are irrelevant in your view? Good thing they don't hire you as mods, because then the board would be even more dead between comics.

There's a lot more active subforums than this one, including one where there's a whole pile of optimizers who would gladly help the OP cram Xykon into a dragon body by whatever convoluted RAW you can possibly dream of.

[DataNinja]

To be fair, this thread was probably imagined to be in the same vein as the "Would Xykon become a demilich?" thread. Though "would" is definitely a lot more character-specific than "could".

[Deliverance]

There's a lot more active subforums than this one, including one where there's a whole pile of optimizers who would gladly help the OP cram Xykon into a dragon body by whatever convoluted RAW you can possibly dream of.
Indeed, and they'd come up with a lot more mentally disturbing or just plain out implausible solutions than my Rocquefort solution too, but they'd work by RAW even if it required retraining as a lefthanded albino dire kobold pipewelder, or whatever. Some of those folks are scary in their dedication to optimization.

[Psyren]

Indeed, and they'd come up with a lot more mentally disturbing or just plain out implausible solutions than my Rocquefort solution too, but they'd work by RAW even if it required retraining as a lefthanded albino dire kobold pipewelder, or whatever. Some of those folks are scary in their dedication to optimization.

...I think you just gave me my next character idea.

[gurrumph]

...I think you just gave me my next character idea.

So along with the character idea, you just need you primary character motivation be to seek out rocquefort cheese AT ALL COSTS!!! Especially life. That way you can come back as a left handed albino dire kobold dracolich with a penchant for plumbing. Also helpful if your DM encourages your hunt for the mythical cheese of medieval lower France by including a magic subterranean portal found in an obscure portion of the plane of earth, or cheese. Plane of cheese sounds good, right?

[littlebum2002]

To be fair, this thread was probably imagined to be in the same vein as the "Would Xykon become a demilich?" thread. Though "would" is definitely a lot more character-specific than "could".

That thread fit the sub perfectly, though. It relied on what we know about Xkyon to determine if his personality would lead to him deciding to become a demi-lich. However, OP was very clear that he didn't want Xykon's personality to play any part in this thought experiment at all.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I get the sense that posters branching out into topics which have questionable relevance to the subforum might simply be a symptom of efforts to stave off boredom when there hasn't been a new strip of the webcomic to nitpick relentlesslydiscuss in three (going on four) weeks now. I at least find it understandable how people would get a little loopy with their theories while trying to keep entertained.

At least it's better than the threads that are straight-up spam and somehow keep eluding the mods' notice.

[Dellis]

That thread fit the sub perfectly, though. It relied on what we know about Xkyon to determine if his personality would lead to him deciding to become a demi-lich. However, OP was very clear that he didn't want Xykon's personality to play any part in this thought experiment at all.

It might be the language barrier doing its job, but I read "this thread deals with 'could' and 'would', but not 'should'" as "you may discuss wether it is possible, In Comic and in RAW or RAI (Could), and wether Xykon'd actually do that according to what we know of his motivations (Would), but not say 'this shouldn't happen or the comic would take a turn which I don't care to read' (Should)."

With this reading, it does pertain to Xykon's personality (or in the case of Could, to the comic-established oots rules supported, when lacking or silent, from sourcebooks).

[kaoskonfety]

spippy... wether Xykon'd actually do that according to what we know of his motivations (Would), snip

If he knew how and had the means he'd be ALL over this. It would be totally super badass.

He'd need a bigger crown tho http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0434.html

Is it likely to happen: I've got to go with nope.

Is is technically do-able in the D&D 3.x rule set: this varies on how you define ruleset, but at the Character Resource level: be resurrected, change into a dragon, re-become a lich should work? I seem to recall the Dracolich requirements being somewhat different than the standard Lich ones tho. I'm sure there is some other way(s), some of them bypassing the "being alive" part. Tiamats' (who exists in comic) direct intervention comes to mind. *ZARK* Draco-lich party in the house.

[Riftwolf]

My personal train of thought on this topic is whether Xykon could become a dracolich WITHOUT 3.5 rules. Not sure which forum I should take this to though.

[Dellis]

If he knew how and had the means he'd be ALL over this. It would be totally super badass.

[SNIP]*ZARK* Draco-lich party in the house.

... which is a totally cool name for an awesome metal band

Sorry, I had to say this xD

(On the other things, I agree)

[Kish]

Without 3.5 rules? You mean Rich just writing Xykon as a dracolich from his next appearance on, no justification given at all? Sure--Rich has demonstrated he can draw undead dragons already, if he wanted to.

[Riftwolf]

Without 3.5 rules? You mean Rich just writing Xykon as a dracolich from his next appearance on, no justification given at all? Sure--Rich has demonstrated he can draw undead dragons already, if he wanted to.

I was thinking more alternative rule sets. Doing something crazy in 3.5 is like tennis without the net. Don't know about 1+2e; doubt it's possible in 4+5e, at least for playable characters (don't know/can't remember how monsters work in those). M:TG; If Xykons a player, Form of the Dragon and Lich isn't the worst combination, though the plot would wrap up as soon as Roy pulled out a Nature's Claim. If Xykon is a Legendary Creature, Wings/Blades of Velis Vel or Mirror Entity would give him the Zombie, Wizard and Dragon subtypes.

[atemu1234]

I mean, if he somehow gains 18 psion levels, he could use Fusion + Astral Seed to fuse himself permanently with a dragon, then gain Dracolich? He'd have to Shapechange himself into a larger dragon, but a at his level, that's pretty easy.