Having opposite reactive spells be a level lower than their proactive counterpart?

[heavyfuel]

Ok, so this question is a bit confusing, let me elaborate:

There are some spells with a clear reactive counterpart (invisibility -> see invisibility; dimension door -> dimension anchor; sleep -> rouse; to name a few)

The thing is, these "reactive" spells are always (at least usually) the same level as the "proactive" spell. And since in DND, a good offence is pretty much always better than a good defense, this means that the "reactive" spells are never ever prepared/learned, at least in my tables. The PCs might have a scroll of it lying around somewhere in their magic bag, but still.

So the idea is to make the reactive spells a level lower. So See Invisibility would now be a level 1 spell. Dimension Anchor would be level 3. So on.

Sure, this makes casters even stronger, but on a kind of ironic way, it also makes them weaker, as now you don't need to be as high level as the opponent caster to be able to react to their spells.

[daremetoidareyo]

I still don't think players will prioritize these spells over active ones. They...aren't fun.

[Socksy]

Ok, so this question is a bit confusing, let me elaborate:

There are some spells with a clear reactive counterpart (invisibility -> see invisibility; dimension door -> dimension anchor; sleep -> rouse; to name a few)

Those reactive spells also work on higher level spells, though.
Thinking about wizards and sorcerers here, who are the ones with limited spells they know:



Improved Invisibility (4)
See Invisibility (2)
Invisibility Purge (3)


Plane Shift (7)
Dimensional Anchor (4)


Sleep (1)
What?! Just slap them awake or make a loud noise!


Symbol of Sleep (5)
Rouse (1)

[Psyren]

Those reactive spells also work on higher level spells, though.
Thinking about wizards and sorcerers here, who are the ones with limited spells they know:



Improved Invisibility (4)
See Invisibility (2)
Invisibility Purge (3)


Plane Shift (7)
Dimensional Anchor (4)


Sleep (1)
What?! Just slap them awake or make a loud noise!


Symbol of Sleep (5)
Rouse (1)



This, and there are other examples like Silence > Blasphemy and Pro:Evil > Dominate Monster. So the existing "silver bullets" are fine where they are really, no need to buff spellcasters even more.

[MHCD]

This, and there are other examples like Silence > Blasphemy and Pro:Evil > Dominate Monster. So the existing "silver bullets" are fine where they are really, no need to buff spellcasters even more.

If this causes noticeable changes in balance, I imagine it would do so in an inconsistent manner. Prepared casters with large "spells known" lists would benefit much more than spontaneous casters who pick spells known, since the former already draw much strength from their ability to generalize for reactivity / change their spells for the next day, while the latter typically invests in specialized styles / those few great multi-threat or versatile spells.

Interestingly, classes like rogue, factotum, and warlock would receive a boost, as utility-UMD becomes cheaper and more useful. One could argue that those classes would receive a bigger bump than sorcerer, at least proportionally.

It might also make artificer a little more friendly at lower levels.

[icefractal]

This, and there are other examples like Silence > Blasphemy and Pro:Evil > Dominate Monster. So the existing "silver bullets" are fine where they are really, no need to buff spellcasters even more.Depends on what you mean by "fine". IME, See Invisibility might be something you eventually consider worth a 2nd level slot, but it's never what you're going to pick at 3rd level or even 5th level. If it was a first-level spell, I could see that happening.

And I don't think this would make casters stronger, maybe the reverse. Making these spells lower-level makes them a lot more usable for wands and potions - ie. putting them in the hands of non-casters too.

[Psyren]

Depends on what you mean by "fine".

By "fine" I mean "the levels those spells currently have are already balanced for what they are capable of." In short, "fine."



And I don't think this would make casters stronger, maybe the reverse. Making these spells lower-level makes them a lot more usable for wands and potions - ie. putting them in the hands of non-casters too.

Definitely not the reverse. Who do you think are making those wands and potions? And on top of increasing the casters' effective wealth, you've also increased the ease with which metamagic can be applied to them. Not broken, but in my view, unnecessary.