More questions on crafting magical items

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all

In my quest to populate my world with a host of player-ready NPCs who can do anything RAW legally, but not stretch the bounds of "Why the hell hasnt this lowly peasant taken over the kingdom if he is a 20th level caster?", I keep hitting snags in understanding exactly how the rules work.

My latest problem is understanding the actual process of creating magical arms and armo(u)r.

As far as I can tell, no craft check is actually required for making the enhancement, but I dont know if I am correct in that.

For example. I have a Blacksmith NPC. He is mundane (and level 3 expert if that matters). A party approaches him and asks him to make a +1 magic weapon. "Sure" he says, "but I will need to find a guy to do the enchanting. I happen to know someone. Ill let you know when its done." (I will probably have commissioned items be 75% total cost. This means its a cheaper option that simply buying off the shelf, but doesnt invalidate party crafting, especially as I dont have XP costs in my games.)

Ok, so far so good. The blacksmith needs to make a masterwork component, and then the rest of the weapon. (You can certainly take a 10 on craft I believe!). Well, taking a 10 with my level 3 NPC gives a DC of 23, which meets the MW component. 23x20 is 460 sp. A MW component is 3000 sp. So you take 6.5 (really? 6.5?) weeks to make the MW component. The rest of it takes about a week on average (a typical weapon is maybe 200 sp, while taking a ten nets 345 sp). So 7.5 weeks for the base sword.

Then the blacksmith gets on the sending stone to old Jim Stormcloak, the local hedge wizard. "Hi Jim, got a sword some guy wants +1 on. Can you come down here and gimme a hand?" "Sure, Ill be right over".

Jim comes over. Jim has the Craft Arms and Armor feat. Jim takes the MW weapon. And here I sorta lose the plot a bit.

As far as I can tell, for just +1, Jim pays 1000 gp (half of the price of the enhancement). He doesnt need to pay half of the MW weapon, because he already has that, right?

Then he spends 2 * 8 hour work days enhancing the item. Right?

Then what? Is it just done? Does Jim need to make a check of some kind?

Jim also needs to be at least CL 3 to make the item (correct?).

So the weapon takes roughly 8 weeks. If the blacksmith has an apprentice, maybe the apprentice makes the non-MW parts, so we can knock off a week. 7 weeks. And maybe the shop is particularly well equipped, or the blacksmith is a little more experienced. So maybe its 6 weeks, or 5. Anyway, I can worry about blacksmith optimisation later (though if anyone has any ideas, its a level 3 template NPC expert that can be applied to more or less any race with 14 Int, skill focus "craft", which I know should only affect one craft, but I am having affect all the Blacksmithing type crafts for simplicity, and a MW set of tools, plus full ranks. Optimisation cant be race dependent because, well, flavour).

Any help with the magical aspect? It seems kinda weird no check is made, but I can see it being a thing.

Thanks.

[Rainshine]

That is essentially correct for 3.5; you did neglect to mention that Jim also has to spend 80xp to do that, but that's a pretty negligible amount. He also has to be at least 3rd level as well (3*1).
Pathfinder takes away the xp cost for item crafting, and makes you make a check, usually spellcraft, at the end of the item creation. There's also variant subsystems for crafting, to make it more of a minigame thing, but honestly, most of the time the PCs just want their new gear and don't care about the story about the forge exploding by accident or somesuch.

[Albions_Angel]

Ok, thanks. I did mention I done use xp costs in my games and he needs to be cl 3, but it was a bit of a wall of text.

[Gildedragon]

Re the masterwork component: it is made concurrently with the armor.

Apprentice can Aid Another to boost the checks and cut down time.
Circumstance bonuses: say masterwork tools (+2), a well stocked forge (another +2), maybe a magic item of magecraft (+5) and his apprentice's help (managing a DC 10 for +2)

Increase the DCs by 10 for faster crafting

[KillianHawkeye]

As far as I can tell, for just +1, Jim pays 1000 gp (half of the price of the enhancement). He doesnt need to pay half of the MW weapon, because he already has that, right?

Correct.


Then he spends 2 * 8 hour work days enhancing the item. Right?

Right. It takes one day (8 hours) for every 1,000 gp in the enchantment's market value.


Then what? Is it just done?

Yes.


Does Jim need to make a check of some kind?

No, there's no failure condition for crafting magic items. You simply spend the time and pay the gold/xp, and at the end you have a magic item.


Jim also needs to be at least CL 3 to make the item (correct?).

Yeah, but he already had to be CL 5 to take Craft Magic Arms & Armor, so that's not an issue for simple +1 enhancement bonuses.

[Coidzor]

Re the masterwork component: it is made concurrently with the armor.

Apprentice can Aid Another to boost the checks and cut down time.
Circumstance bonuses: say masterwork tools (+2), a well stocked forge (another +2), maybe a magic item of magecraft (+5) and his apprentice's help (managing a DC 10 for +2)

Increase the DCs by 10 for faster crafting

Take 10 + 7 ranks + 3 Skill Focus + 2 MWtools + 5 Magecraft + 2 apprentice + 2 Int

Adds up to 31 final.

31*25 = 775 weekly progress in sp on longsword (15/77.5 = 0.193548387 weeks OR 77.5/15 = 5.16666667 so it's done in 1/5th of a week. Around 11.2 work hours or 1.4 days of work)

31*30 = 930 weekly progress in sp on MW (300/93 = 3.225 weeks)

So about 22 work days and then it finishes halfway through the 23rd.

With 3 total apprentices (or 2 and being a dwarf) he'd have DC 35.

35*35 = 1225 weekly progress in sp (122.5/15 = 8.167, so done in 1/8th of a week. So 7 work hours.)

35*30 = 1050 weekly progress in sp. (300/105 = 2.857)

So essentially 3 weeks between most of 1 day and then 2.85 weeks for the rest. Call it 20 work days.

I suppose the 2 additional apprentices aren't actually worth it in this case.

Probably are for something like Fullplate, though, where the item is valuable enough that more minor increments in progress add up over the total length of time.

Yeah, with a moderate bit of optimization we can get the total time for making the MW sword down to around 20-23 days. This is assuming he's managed to save up enough or been floated a loan or got a good deal from the Wizard who he works with to get that item of Magecraft.