How would you Red Mage?

[Garret Dorigan]

I'm making an NPC that might, under certain circumstances, become a DMPC for a fight to help the party depending on their decisions. The idea, if you haven't yet pulled it from the title, is that I've introduced him as dressing like a FF1 Red Mage... yeah, I know, super original.

But that comes to the question: Since I'm statting him out, how would you go about it? My thought is Life Cleric 4/Eldritch Knight 6 with a Sun Blade, but a Valor Bard or Sorcadin/Hexbladeadin also would fit, as well as a couple others.

The question I guess, since it can be done so many ways, is what is the most "Red Mage" Red Mage to you?

[N810]

Clearly the https://68.media.tumblr.com/avatar_6558882fa284_512.png was supposed to be a Bard of some sort.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

I've actually described the 5e bard as being similar to a Final Fantasy Red Mage for players who didn't like the idea of playing a music wizard. They can use healing, damaging, and support magic and can fight about as well any magic user can hope to in this edition (especially if you pick the College of Valor).

[Matticusrex]

Mystics are the true red mages.

[mephnick]

I wonder why they haven't made an arcane half-caster skill monkey type character yet. Seems like it's the only kind of build they haven't approached yet.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I've actually described the 5e bard as being similar to a Final Fantasy Red Mage for players who didn't like the idea of playing a music wizard. They can use healing, damaging, and support magic and can fight about as well any magic user can hope to in this edition (especially if you pick the College of Valor).

Valor or Lore bard is redmage. You get potentialy any spell, can fight decently, and is good at skills. i lean towards lore, but if you want to fight decently valor or swords, or be weird with satire,

[JAL_1138]

If I remember FF1 right, the defining characteristic of the red mage is that they can cast some "white magic," which generally means healing and buffs; and some "black magic," which generally means damage and debuffs; and they can use weapons to a reasonable degree. That's the 5e bard in a nutshell, particularly the Valor Bard (and a few of the UA bards as well). Arguably Valor needs to dip Fighter 1 or 2, Ranger 2, or Paladin 2 to really do its job as a damage-dealer; without them it's pretty weak with weapon damage even with Extra Attack. Lore can be reasonably decent for a spellcaster without Extra Attack in weapon combat via Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade (picked up as a Magical Secret, or via feat or racial cantrip), and of course Lore is a much better skillmonkey, somewhat better spellcaster, and has the better Bardic Inspiration variant compared to Valor.

[Sabeta]

Red Mages are plainly a Jack-of-All Trades.

They would have access to some swords, some armors, some white magic, and some black magic. In D&D sense this would be to me

A) Limited Martial Proficiency, at least with Longsword/Rapier
B) Medium Armor Proficiency
C) No less than Half-Caster

The overall concept of White and Black magic don't necessarily hold up so well in D&D terms, but I'll try.

Use only spells of Thunder, Cold, and Fire damage. Possibly open to the possibility of Force.
Take a handful of healing spells whenever possible, and some limited buffs such as Haste, Slow, and maybe Blur.

I think Bard probably suits that best. Maybe specific Cleric builds.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

Arguably Valor needs to dip Fighter 1 or 2, Ranger 2, or Paladin 2 to really do its job as a damage-dealer; without them it's pretty weak with weapon damage even with Extra Attack. Lore can be reasonably decent for a spellcaster without Extra Attack in weapon combat via Greenflame Blade or Booming Blade (picked up as a Magical Secret, or via feat or racial cantrip), and of course Lore is a much better skillmonkey, somewhat better spellcaster, and has the better Bardic Inspiration variant compared to Valor.You have some good points, though it is probably worth pointing out that a Valor Bard's inspiration dice can be applied to damage so even if it has to take a side path through another character, a Valor Bard can generate an extra d6/8/10/12 of damage per point of charisma (with short rest recharge once you hit level 5). It's not the best extra damage source (tying up your inspiration dice among other downsides) but it's still not bad.

[StorytellerHero]

The question I guess, since it can be done so many ways, is what is the most "Red Mage" Red Mage to you?

I have a Swordmage product on my DMsGuild channel that might be useful to you. Spells from the Artificer book might also be useful.

Link is in my forum signature.

[JAL_1138]

You have some good points, though it is probably worth pointing out that a Valor Bard's inspiration dice can be applied to damage so even if it has to take a side path through another character, a Valor Bard can generate an extra d6/8/10/12 of damage per point of charisma (with short rest recharge once you hit level 5). It's not the best extra damage source (tying up your inspiration dice among other downsides) but it's still not bad.

When I pass out Combat Inspiration, I usually recommend people save it to add to their AC against an attack for a poor-man's Shield spell, or to a saving throw, instead of using it to add a mild amount of damage. The exception being if they crit, where it can be doubled.

[Garret Dorigan]

I guess I should have made it clearer, but this was meant as a curiosity not plea for help.

I agree with the consensus that Valor Bard is probably the best fit overall, but there are many ways to build that "I can do everything" sort of character. My own idea of Life 4/EK 6 was informed by other portions of the narrative in the game, just curious as to what everyone else had in their minds as the most ideal version of that.

Seems that like me Valor Bard is the winner. :smallsmile:

Now of course if you're wanting to do a Red Mage from later Final Fantasy games, you have to include Sorcerer in the mix due to the Red Mage's inherent ability of Dualcast.

[Sigreid]

For a real red mage, don't forget to have him stay out in the sun way too long on a regular basis.

[Lord Il Palazzo]

I guess I should have made it clearer, but this was meant as a curiosity not plea for help.

I agree with the consensus that Valor Bard is probably the best fit overall, but there are many ways to build that "I can do everything" sort of character. My own idea of Life 4/EK 6 was informed by other portions of the narrative in the game, just curious as to what everyone else had in their minds as the most ideal version of that.

Seems that like me Valor Bard is the winner. :smallsmile:

Now of course if you're wanting to do a Red Mage from later Final Fantasy games, you have to include Sorcerer in the mix due to the Red Mage's inherent ability of Dualcast.Well, if we're giving the trophy to Valor Bard, we might as well talk about runners up.

War or Tempest Clerics could probably be built as Red Mages, mixing a cleric's healing power with full weapon and armor proficiencies and some reasonable blasting. The choice between War and Tempest basically would come down to how you want to balance the fighter and black mage elements of a Red Mage.

The original Favored Soul Sorcerer (from the Modifying Classes article) would be a pretty good base to build on too (and come on, how can a caster with a hat like that NOT be charisma based?) The full sorcerer spell list, plus a cleric domain (Life seems kind of obligatory to get your dose of white magic) and proficiency with medium armor, shields and simple weapons. A level of fighter or bard might be in order for a few more weapons to work with, but otherwise you have all the hallmarks of a red mage (including metamagic so you can Dualcast, as you point out).

[Dappershire]

I've made a terrible mistake.
I entered, with knowledge of Thay in my fingertips, and leave disappointed.

[Zyrxan]

Since this thread appears to be forgotten, I am hijacking it.

I have a character who I've based upon the Final Fantasy Red Mage as well. Backstory is that she is a student on magical theory, and she does not believe the eight schools properly classify all spells. So, she has developed her own theory on another way to classify spells, which is essentially the Black, White, Green, etc. magic of the FF games. So, she has begun travelling in order to see as many spells casted as possible and learn as much as she can about them so she can classify them under her system.

I gave this backstory to my GM, and explained to him that I would like to swap Charisma and Intelligence when considering my spellcasting, since Charisma doesn't fit my concept. End result is that my DM has allowed me to use Intelligence rather than Charisma for my spellcasting.

Rolled stats are 9, 15, 13, 15, 14, 12, Variant Human with Resilient (Con) for stats of 9, 16, 14, 16, 14, 12. She has her first level in Bard, I am planning on multiclassing into Draconic Sorcerer for the four cantrips (to simulate Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder, at the minimum, possibly Water if I can find an appropriate spell) but after that is where I hit a snag. I don't know whether I should go to Sorcerer 3 for Metamagic, or whether I should pick up Fighter for the fighting style and Action Surge (to simulate Dualcast). I'm planning on taking full Bard afterwards so I can have the versatility of a Red Mage. Any advice on this would be appreciated.

Currently only have one party member: a monk with almost the exact same stats I do, planning on either going Open Palm or the revised Kensai.

[rbstr]

I think a Light cleric might actually fit best in terms of the Spell List. Gotta have some blasty spells and the bard doesn't so much
Like Valor Bard is pretty much perfect flavor...except their spell list doesn't do enough blasting or healing. I mean, Secrets sort of makes it work at level 10, but overall the list isn't what we're looking for.

But the other thing is that Red Mage shouldn't really be a full caster. They don't get to pick up the final tier or two of spells.
Ranger or Paladin have the heals you need. Add in some Burning Hands, Fireball ect as bonus spells would put the spell list where you need it. EK is too good at stabbing.
Blade Warlock with a Patron's list that was half blast half heal would fit the bill too, since they are limited in how high thier "normal" slots go. Having cantrips really helps them get the whole set of elements in too.

[King539]

http://media.wizards.com/2017/dnd/downloads/UA-RevisedSubclasses.pdf

Swords bard.

[Zyrxan]

I'm kinda stuck in the Bard/Sorcerer already due to the game already having started. I've decided on throwing Fighter in for Action Surge for Dualcast (Action Surge). I appreciate the input.