Agents of Shield VI: I am an Agent of SHIELD

[Giggling Ghast]

Greetings, fans of SHIELD! This thread picks up near the end of Season 4, which (at the time of this writing) may or may not be the final season of Agents of Shield!

Past Threads:

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?305229-Agents-of-SHIELD)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. II: It's a Magical Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?335470-Agents-of-S-H-I-E-L-D-II-It-s-A-Magical-Thread)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. III: Cut Off One Thread, Two More Shall Take Its Place (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?384621-Agents-of-S-H-I-E-L-D-III-Cut-off-one-thread-two-more-shall-take-its-place)
Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. IV: Oh, the Inhumanity! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?414582-Agents-of-S-H-I-E-L-D-IV-Oh-the-Inhumanity!)
Agents of SHIELD V: You Joined the Cavalry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?481426-Agents-of-S-H-I-E-L-D-V-You-Joined-the-Cavalry)

In general, please spoiler any discussion of episodes until at least a few days after each episode. Fans who are not up to date may want to tread carefully.

[Giggling Ghast]

I said all along that Mack would be the hardest to convince to return and it seems I was right.

:frown:

Regarding AIDA:

****ING HAX

That bitch gave herself Inhuman powers! :smallmad:

[Douglas]

So apparently Radcliffe's backdoor restores your memories in addition to sending you out. Convenient.

Forcing Fitz out was fully justified in my opinion, and really was getting to be the only plausible way he would ever leave, with how firmly entrenched and digging deeper he's been in his new role. Clever thinking on Radcliffe's part, and he just might have redeemed himself a little. I still wouldn't trust him without very close supervision, but he has learned at least part of the lesson he needs.

Mack... That's a real bittersweet moment, there. I really don't see the writers leaving him indefinitely in the Framework, though, so I predict he's going to either die or get out soon. My bet's on getting out - his body is protected by Coulson and May, his mind in the Framework is secure in Shield's main base, and the Framework hardware is with his body. Aida probably could still take back control of the Framework long enough to shut it down if she wanted to, but I think she just doesn't care about it rather than hating it. So, other options: Shield people in control of the Framework main hardware might be able to simply eject Mack via external controls; cruel but effective. A return trip into the Framework could conceivably capture and force him into the backdoor; good luck with that, he's a lot harder to physically restrain than Fitz. Or Shield could use Aida's device, which seems to be near the newly wakened Coulson and May, to bring Hope out with him; with that on the table, Mack would come willingly. So, my guess is Hope will get a real body soon.

I don't think Hydra's going to be a problem in the Framework much longer. Both of the top leaders disappeared simultaneously, at the same time as Shield sprang a surprise return and sparked a popular rebellion as well. With that going down, a return trip to talk with Mack and bring him out could be uneventful enough to be just one or two scenes.

I really did not see Aida's powers coming.

[Giggling Ghast]

So apparently Radcliffe's backdoor restores your memories in addition to sending you out. Convenient.

Forcing Fitz out was fully justified in my opinion, and really was getting to be the only plausible way he would ever leave, with how firmly entrenched and digging deeper he's been in his new role. Clever thinking on Radcliffe's part, and he just might have redeemed himself a little. I still wouldn't trust him without very close supervision, but he has learned at least part of the lesson he needs.

Mack... That's a real bittersweet moment, there. I really don't see the writers leaving him indefinitely in the Framework, though, so I predict he's going to either die or get out soon. My bet's on getting out - his body is protected by Coulson and May, his mind in the Framework is secure in Shield's main base, and the Framework hardware is with his body. Aida probably could still take back control of the Framework long enough to shut it down if she wanted to, but I think she just doesn't care about it rather than hating it. So, other options: Shield people in control of the Framework main hardware might be able to simply eject Mack via external controls; cruel but effective. A return trip into the Framework could conceivably capture and force him into the backdoor; good luck with that, he's a lot harder to physically restrain than Fitz. Or Shield could use Aida's device, which seems to be near the newly wakened Coulson and May, to bring Hope out with him; with that on the table, Mack would come willingly. So, my guess is Hope will get a real body soon.

I don't think Hydra's going to be a problem in the Framework much longer. Both of the top leaders disappeared simultaneously, at the same time as Shield sprang a surprise return and sparked a popular rebellion as well. With that going down, a return trip to talk with Mack and bring him out could be uneventful enough to be just one or two scenes.

I really did not see Aida's powers coming.

I think Mack has made his choice. Unless they can bring Hope out of that world, I don't think he'll leave.

I do respect Radcliffe for doing the right thing for once.

[Dragonexx]

I really did not see Aida's powers coming.

https://img.memesuper.com/90824125e7ea3a75e64a2b12f5534c9b_not-sure-if-serious-fry-meme-not-sure-if-serious_604-453.jpeg

[Douglas]

Completely serious, I assure you.
When Aida teleported out with Fitz, I spent a few moments just blinking and staring at the screen in surprise. I expected Aida's human body to be a prime specimen of humanity, in perfect health with 99th percentile or above in all normal human capabilities - strength, speed, reflexes, toughness, scientific/mathematical intelligence, etc. I did not expect her to have outright blatant superpowers.

New prediction:
Aida's newly acquired human feelings and emotions will be her downfall. She may even develop genuine love for Fitz, and sacrifice herself for his sake or be emotionally crushed (to the point of either suicide or fatal distraction) by him rejecting her.

[Dragonexx]

Strange. When I learned she was building a new body for herself, I immediately figured she'd give herself inhuman powers. I couldn't think of a reason for her not to.

[Giggling Ghast]

I admit, the sudden poof was a surprise.

It's somewhat ironic given that ...

... as Madame Hydra, she oppressed Inhumans in the Framework.

[Douglas]

Strange. When I learned she was building a new body for herself, I immediately figured she'd give herself inhuman powers. I couldn't think of a reason for her not to.
It didn't occur to me that she might be able to. It combines multiple things that were previously unsolved problems that hadn't even had anyone trying to solve, much less making any progress on, none of which relate to any of her prior work.

[huttj509]

I admit, the sudden poof was a surprise.

It's somewhat ironic given that ...

... as Madame Hydra, she oppressed Inhumans in the Framework.

Oppressed them, collected them, dissected them, studied them.

No wonder she had to catch em all.

[LaZodiac]

Oppressed them, collected them, dissected them, studied them.

No wonder she had to catch em all.

You know, that's perfectly sensible and explains how she was able to do this. Our heroes were so focused on Project Looking Glass that they didn't realize that she could of easily been studying other things as well. I like it.

This episode was great, and I feel SUPER bad for Mack. It looks like the only way he's getting out is if they make Hope a body...I wonder how that'll go.

Also, I made a bet with my Dad that Mace would come back. He's pretty clearly not. I'm gonna enjoy that ten bucks.

[Chen]

You know, that's perfectly sensible and explains how she was able to do this. Our heroes were so focused on Project Looking Glass that they didn't realize that she could of easily been studying other things as well. I like it.

This episode was great, and I feel SUPER bad for Mack. It looks like the only way he's getting out is if they make Hope a body...I wonder how that'll go.

Also, I made a bet with my Dad that Mace would come back. He's pretty clearly not. I'm gonna enjoy that ten bucks.

I have no idea how they'd make Hope a body though. She's not a real mind put into the framework. She's just a constructed program that emulates a human. I have to imagine there are plenty of things "missing" in her that work fine in the framework but wouldn't work so well outside.

[Red Fel]

It didn't occur to me that she might be able to. It combines multiple things that were previously unsolved problems that hadn't even had anyone trying to solve, much less making any progress on, none of which relate to any of her prior work.

A bit of this. I'm not sure that studying Inhumans inside the Framework counts, given that you're studying digital approximations of Inhumanity instead of actual, factual Inhumans. And I also didn't anticipate that Project Looking Glass would be able to simulate not only humanity, but Inhumanity post-Terragenesis.

Honestly, I just figured she was somehow tapping into the Other Place that Robbie's uncle tapped into, but instead of pulling stuff out of it, she was sliding through it to teleport. Because, you know, Darkhold. *handwave*

It's time for my favorite game: I called it!
The core team escapes the Framework. Duh. Per the rules, everyone who was in the first episode will need to be present for the finale. Well, Ward is a bust, but otherwise, everyone else got out. You know, except...
Mack has the toughest time leaving. Admittedly, I figured he would leave - and I still do, see my predictions below - but I knew he would want Hope more. Called it.
Radcliffe's redemption. Yeah, I figured he'd only go along with what we saw in the teaser last week in order to kick Fitz out.
Fitz is a mess. No kidding. They weren't just 1s and 0s, he legitimately real-world-killed Mace. If that doesn't have long-term consequences for him I'm going to be very disappointed in the writers.
You may all Marvel at my prophetic powers now.

You know, I may have complained about the linearity of the plot, but this episode did a good job of switching things up. We knew that the team would ultimately escape the Framework; we just didn't know how, when, or in what condition. Hinting that they might not get Fitz out on this go-around was a nice touch. Using that to red herring the fact that it was Mack who didn't leave was also nice. Getting Fitz out by force, instead of by a revelation induced by the obnoxious power of true love, was immensely gratifying.

I thought Simmons' method of trying to reach Fitz, while certainly demonstrative of her desperation, was stupid. Yeah, she was desperate, but she really ought to know better, and it's frustrating that even though she has started to accept that this world was real to the people in it, she was still blindly convinced that Fitz would simply be her Fitz again, just because she wanted it really badly. It should be no surprise to anyone, including her, that it ended the way it did.

I thought Mack's conflict was genuinely powerful. Guy has some of the best moments on the show, and plays them to the hilt. On a related note, I am going to miss Evil!Fitz. That character was so damned great, it was an absolute pleasure to watch.

As much as I loathed stonefaced-martyr Evil-ish!May, I really hope she doesn't snap back over into bubbly-giggly-flirt!May. There's got to be a middle-ground.

Ultimately, this arc started off rough for me, but it really developed well. Mostly, I just hope we can get back to a normal color palette now.

Alright. We have two more episodes this season, and I have some pretty confident ideas about how they will play out.
This upcoming episode will be comprised mostly of:
The Zephyr attempts to evade (and ultimately succeeds at it) its attackers, and gets to the sub.
The Zephyr and/or Quake damages the sub.
The inside team manages to subdue, but not destroy, the Russian, who will be trapped in a sinking sub.
Mack will sink inside the sub, killing him. Bear with me, because I have a hunch.
This will cover most or all of the episode, with a bit at the end showing a thoroughly mentally-messed-up Fitz and a creepy yandere Aida.
The finale will consist of:
The team goes to rescue Fitz.
Fitz has a meltdown over whether he is a good person, considers killing himself with Aida.
Simmons gets through to him, Fitz chooses her over Aida.
Aida loses her **** mind.
Mack returns. Hey, do you remember that time Mack was possessed by a flaming skull guy and sort of made a compact with him? I don't think Mack gets to die that easily.
Aida gets what's coming to her.
Cliffhanger reveal.
We'll see.

[LaZodiac]

I actually really like your idea that Mack gets removed by the framework by him dying...and the Spirit of Vengeance saying "no". That's fascinating an idea. I don't think it'll happen, but wow.

[Beleriphon]

On Aida

I assumed the teleport was something she picked from Darkhold.

[Red Fel]

I actually really like your idea that Mack gets removed by the framework by him dying...and the Spirit of Vengeance saying "no". That's fascinating an idea. I don't think it'll happen, but wow.

Actually, my reason for this is a pretty major spoiler that's been revealed for the season finale.

Don't open the spoilers below (or quote this post) unless you want a pretty big spoiler.


Robbie Reyes will be making an appearance in the season finale. Source (http://tvline.com/2017/05/01/agents-of-shield-season-4-finale-ghost-rider-returns-gabriel-luna/).

Way I see it, if Mack is still in the Framework and/or dead, the Rider will more or less pull him out.

[Swaoeaeieu]

How did we miss the obvious thread name?
Agents of shield: Cut off Brett Dalton and another one shall take his place? (or somesuch hydra sentence)
i mean, that dude just keeps coming back to the show doesnt he? XD

[Reddish Mage]

On Aida

I assumed the teleport was something she picked from Darkhold.

I also figured the teleportation was magical. I don't think Aida is Inhuman. After all, she wants to "be human," why go halfway when the Darkhold could let her be human and give her magic powers too.

We've already seen that other humans who have used the Darkhold acquire powers.

[LaZodiac]

I also figured the teleportation was magical. I don't think Aida is Inhuman. After all, she wants to "be human," why go halfway when the Darkhold could let her be human and give her magic powers too.

We've already seen that other humans who have used the Darkhold acquire powers.

This is definitely one of those "well find out next time" questions. I'm leaning a bit towards "it's magic". But it might be Inhuman, and this could be a lead in to the Inhuman series which is happening by the way.

[Yana]

I'm hoping against hope that the Human 3-D printer will be used to res someone else once Aida is dealt with. As much as I'd love Brett Dalton to come back, it strikes me as unlikely that the rest of the team will want even Good!Ward on their side.

[The New Bruceski]

I think we're gonna get Hope. Maybe opening up for Devil Dinosaur next season.

[Chen]

I'm hoping against hope that the Human 3-D printer will be used to res someone else once Aida is dealt with. As much as I'd love Brett Dalton to come back, it strikes me as unlikely that the rest of the team will want even Good!Ward on their side.

As mentioned before that new printer should only work to bring actual minds back out of the Framework. I find it laughable that Aida would have somehow created full minds for absolutely every being in her created Framework.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

As mentioned before that new printer should only work to bring actual minds back out of the Framework. I find it laughable that Aida would have somehow created full minds for absolutely every being in her created Framework.

No, but she needs to create them for every person that interacts with the real humans she stuck in the simulation, because Mac would get really suspicious if his daughter didn't act like a real child. Aida can get away with not simulating anyone in India as long as her captives don't interact with any of them, and probably take shortcuts with most people around the heroes, but the moment they regularly interact with someone, that someone needs a full mind.

IIRC, each of us tends to interact with about 50-odd people on a regular basis; for 6 prisoners, that's 300 minds. Say she's careful and goes for a couple thousands, just in case. Still a far cry from having simulated 7.5 billion minds.

GW

[Spacewolf]

As mentioned before that new printer should only work to bring actual minds back out of the Framework. I find it laughable that Aida would have somehow created full minds for absolutely every being in her created Framework.

I dunno this is supposed to be a magic quantum computer, with the level of personality we've seen from some of the inhabitants it seems like it could qualify as it's own universe.

[MikelaC1]

If this is indeed the last season of SHIELD as some are implying, I have just one request. NO CLIFFHANGER endings that will never be resolved. TV has too many of them.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

If this is indeed the last season of SHIELD as some are implying, I have just one request. NO CLIFFHANGER endings that will never be resolved. TV has too many of them.

FWIW, Cancellation Bear (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-abc-week-31-agents-of-shield-will-get-one-more-run/) thinks they'll get one more season. Still a rumour, but one with a significant expertise behind it.

GW

[The New Bruceski]

Every year has had folks loudly and confidently claiming it'll be the final year. I agree about cliffhanger finales (man, The Finder was a downer note), but don't go jumping the gun.

[Rogar Demonblud]

FWIW, Cancellation Bear (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/renewcancel/cancel-bear-vs-abc-week-31-agents-of-shield-will-get-one-more-run/) thinks they'll get one more season. Still a rumour, but one with a significant expertise behind it.

GW

Cancel Bear has a sub-30% success rate on predictions, FWIW. Hard to predict what the suits will do these days.

edit: for example, CB wasn't predicting Emerald City would get the axe last time I checked, but it did.

[Zalabim]

As mentioned before that new printer should only work to bring actual minds back out of the Framework. I find it laughable that Aida would have somehow created full minds for absolutely every being in her created Framework.

Aida herself is completely artificial, and it worked for her.

[hustlertwo]

Completely serious, I assure you.
When Aida teleported out with Fitz, I spent a few moments just blinking and staring at the screen in surprise. I expected Aida's human body to be a prime specimen of humanity, in perfect health with 99th percentile or above in all normal human capabilities - strength, speed, reflexes, toughness, scientific/mathematical intelligence, etc. I did not expect her to have outright blatant superpowers.

New prediction:
Aida's newly acquired human feelings and emotions will be her downfall. She may even develop genuine love for Fitz, and sacrifice herself for his sake or be emotionally crushed (to the point of either suicide or fatal distraction) by him rejecting her.

I fell somewhere between you and Dragonexx. Fitz talking about her new body being strong made me instantly assume she would be powered. But I took that literally, and figured we would have another person with Mace-level muscles, maybe enhanced durability so killing her would be tough. The bamf still completely surprised both me and my wife, and I guess means she could have any number of powers tucked away in her new frame.

[Dilvish]

I was going to post something different, but my thoughts wandered to how Coulson and Carlson sound similar, which led to an idea of Coulson in the Framework running a radio station in Cincinnati. WSHD in Cincinnati... :)

[MikelaC1]

Well that was an unsatisfying semi-end of the arc. There was no reason for Mack to stay behind, in character Mack is a pragmatist, and would never accept living a lie. That's not his daughter and he knows it, its a computer program with its responses categorized by 100100110, not any sort of emotion or feeling. If he didn't know it, he might have been able to accept it, but knowing, theres no way. If you want to write a character out, have him die...don't have him behave completely out of character to take him off the show. And what, after they deal with Aida, they are going to let this giant computer keep on running? Reality check, please.
As for Aida escaping, that was bogus. She cant just "give" herself powers, those only come from undergoing the transformation ritual and then only usable with lots of practice, trial and error. Even having them, and full blown at that, is a crock. And Fitz's reaction, he was horrified at what he had done in the simulation and then he comes face to face with the thing that made him do it...and just stands there? He would have been trying to tear her limb from limb. You want to keep her "alive", have her arrive at some other place, or make her escape while the rest are still coming to grips with their return. Not this bogus set up.

[Ping Pong Along]

Well that was an unsatisfying semi-end of the arc. There was no reason for Mack to stay behind, in character Mack is a pragmatist, and would never accept living a lie. That's not his daughter and he knows it, its a computer program with its responses categorized by 100100110, not any sort of emotion or feeling. If he didn't know it, he might have been able to accept it, but knowing, theres no way. If you want to write a character out, have him die...don't have him behave completely out of character to take him off the show. And what, after they deal with Aida, they are going to let this giant computer keep on running? Reality check, please.
As for Aida escaping, that was bogus. She cant just "give" herself powers, those only come from undergoing the transformation ritual and then only usable with lots of practice, trial and error. Even having them, and full blown at that, is a crock. And Fitz's reaction, he was horrified at what he had done in the simulation and then he comes face to face with the thing that made him do it...and just stands there? He would have been trying to tear her limb from limb. You want to keep her "alive", have her arrive at some other place, or make her escape while the rest are still coming to grips with their return. Not this bogus set up.

I disagree with pretty much all of your points. It's not like Mack has some knowledge of what life outside of the Framework is like.
Literally the only thing he knows about it is that his daughter is dead there. Doesn't seem like a stretch at all that he would prefer to stay where the person he loves the most is alive. We also don't know that he's being written out. There are still two more episodes and the teaser for next week shows that Mack's story isn't done yet.

As for AIDA, she 3D printed herself a human body. If she has that capability, why not make it an Inhuman body? Is it really that outrageous?
Fitz and Hydra had been studying Inhumans after all. Terragenesis wouldn't necessarily be required if the body were constructed to have already undergone it. I'll give you that we didn't see her practicing with her powers. She could have set up a program to practice as kind of an "I know kung fu" kind of situation.

Fitz was in shock. He couldn't believe what he'd done, been willing to do, how merciless he had been. He could have been aggressive about it, sure. He's just been through the most traumatic thing in his entire life, even worse than his near death experience. And in the framework, he loved Ophelia. It wasn't real, but it felt real. And now the two realities crash before his eyes as he comes face to face with his captor, his manipulator, and his love. Because the love he felt was real, even though everything about it was a lie.

[Giggling Ghast]

OK, it's a week past, so I'm dropping the spoilers.

First off, Framework Mack had no memory of being an Agent of SHIELD, so it's understandable that he would be hesitant to trade the virtual world where he had a daughter for a world he knew nothing about (except that Hope wasn't there).

Secondly, the pain and regret he felt over losing Hope was enough to sustain the friggin' Ghost Rider, so I would say her death left a pretty sizeable hole in his heart.

[MikelaC1]

But he is a pragmatist. He cut Coulson's arm off with an axe, for crying out loud. All the way to the escape point, he could deny the other world, but when faced with Daisy using Inhuman powers and showing the portal clearly, the lie of the world he was in could not be denied. And Mack would never believe in a lie. Its a plot armor character change, and its phony.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It's a fishnet-thin justification for the return of Ghost Rider. Hardly the worst thing this series has done (Yes Men, anyone?).

[Giggling Ghast]

But he is a pragmatist. He cut Coulson's arm off with an axe, for crying out loud.

So would I. So would anyone with an ounce of sense. That's not pragmatism, that's doing the only thing that would save Coulson's life.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

But he is a pragmatist. He cut Coulson's arm off with an axe, for crying out loud. All the way to the escape point, he could deny the other world, but when faced with Daisy using Inhuman powers and showing the portal clearly, the lie of the world he was in could not be denied. And Mack would never believe in a lie. Its a plot armor character change, and its phony.

No, he's a pragmatist in the real world because in the real world he has lost Hope. In the virtual world, he has a reason to live other than pure pragmatic duty. And from where I'm standing, if I was forced at gunpoint to choose between my cub and "the more real world", I'd pick like Mack did in a heartbeat, because of the brain-in-a-jar philosophical thought experiment: you can never be sure that what you think as reality "is really real". For all anyone can know, Daisy is delusional about living in the real real world, and is simply pulling him to a different computer simulation.

GW

[MikelaC1]

What do they say about a woman scorned. Aida has it REAL bad

[Giggling Ghast]

It's Sunday. Screw spoilers.

Ophelia's freak-out was genuinely scary. Making her human actually made her worse, because now she's completely unhinged.

Seeing Fitz sad was a tearjerker, but I think it was worse seeing Gemma fighting back tears when Fitz said that his relationship with her was over.

Good news: AoS finally got renewed. We got one more season to wrap things up.

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/agents-of-shield/48879/agents-of-shield-renewed-for-season-5

[Douglas]

Aida's new emotions, of all kinds, are overwhelming her because of how total her inexperience with them is. If Fitz had chosen her over Jemma, I could easily see her becoming a long term blissfully/deliriously happy powerful ally of Shield. Right up until her first argument with Fitz, at which point it would all depend on whether Fitz could convince her, in the middle of an emotionally distraught breakdown, that it was just a temporary interruption of the long term status quo.

So, she'd be a ticking time bomb for quite a while, with all the lack of emotional stability of a newborn baby, combined with the power of many different Inhumans all put together.

...yeah, this never had good odds of turning out well. Good try, Fitz, and at least you got her to save Mack before the breakup.

On the subject of Aida's powers, I find it interesting that she can regenerate from actual bullet wounds easily, but has no apparent resistance to ICER rounds. That's quite a hole in her Inhuman defenses if anyone thinks of it.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

On the subject of Aida's powers, I find it interesting that she can regenerate from actual bullet wounds easily, but has no apparent resistance to ICER rounds. That's quite a hole in her Inhuman defenses if anyone thinks of it.

Where there ICERs in the framework? I wouldn't imagine they'd be standard Hydra issue, even if Fitz did manage to invent them before Hydra took over, so there would not have been any chance to identify which inhuman power granted immunity to it.

GW

[Yana]

This is HYDRA we're talking about here. Why would they bother with non-lethal weaponry?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

This is HYDRA we're talking about here. Why would they bother with non-lethal weaponry?

They do need the inhuman alive for experimentation. So they needed non-lethal, I just can't imagine there being an outright R&D project to develop it.

GW

[Giggling Ghast]

They do need the inhuman alive for experimentation. So they needed non-lethal, I just can't imagine there being an outright R&D project to develop it.

Well, Icers are meant to incapacitate without hurting the individual. HYDRA never had to worry about being that gentle.

[LaZodiac]

They do need the inhuman alive for experimentation. So they needed non-lethal, I just can't imagine there being an outright R&D project to develop it.

GW

In the Hydra handbook that's called a leg shot.

[Giggling Ghast]

C'mon guys, you saw Hydra's approach to non-lethal takedowns.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9phxUGRV0PY

[Rogar Demonblud]

I wonder if this means we'll be seeing the return of the ICER grenade from T.R.A.C.K.S. back in S1.

Crap was that a long time ago.

[Giggling Ghast]

Robbie Reyes has seen some s**t.

Sneak peak of season finale (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5_eCZsZ7l1k)

[Rogar Demonblud]

Just saw that Powers Boothe, who was so much fun as Gideon Malick last season, has passed.

[Palanan]

—Okay, emergency question: what happened in last week’s stinger?

I caught the episode, but managed to miss the stinger, and I’m sure it’s something frightfully relevant. Can anyone fill me in? (Spoilered, of course.)

[JadedDM]

After thoroughly searching the SHIELD base, Talbot and his men find nothing and depart. Moments later, Ghostrider steps through a portal and walks off.

[Douglas]

After thoroughly searching the SHIELD base, Talbot and his men find nothing and depart. Moments later, Ghostrider steps through a portal and walks off.
Specifically, the portal Aida built to bring Coulson and Fitz back, back when Eli was the main bad guy. The device that makes that portal is at least structurally intact, and it reactivates and then Ghostrider walks out from it.

[LaZodiac]

And so the season ends, and I make ten bucks.

That was a really good ending, I think. Lotta good build up, lotta good action, some trickery by our heroes and Phil making some secret deal with the good satan. And then...SPACE BASE. Which is probably going to tie into the Inhumans series, which they teased at the end. Nice.

Especially good and nice points for the ending of Radcliffe. This is how the world ends, with a-

[Dilvish]

And so the season ends, and I make ten bucks.

That was a really good ending, I think. Lotta good build up, lotta good action, some trickery by our heroes and Phil making some secret deal with the good satan. And then...SPACE BASE. Which is probably going to tie into the Inhumans series, which they teased at the end. Nice.

Especially good and nice points for the ending of Radcliffe. This is how the world ends, with a-

It was a really good ending. The combination of the last scene and the stinger confused me. We have to see what happens between the diner scene and the space base.

And then there is the whole thing between Coulson and Robbie. Something to do with Coulson having come back from the dead, I assume.

[Giggling Ghast]

General thoughts:

It was immeasurably satisfying seeing AIDA fry. Evil bitch. :smallbiggrin:

However, watching Hope fade was considerably less satisfying. Poor Mack.

I kinda wish they'd did a fade to black after Radcliffe died. That woulda made that scene perfect.

And, uh, I guess Framework Ward is dead now too? Geez.

So ... who wants to guess Coulson's secret?

My money is on him dying. Again.

[Palanan]

Well, that happened.

As finales go…not great.



Ahh, Skullboy. Possibly my least favorite character in the MCU, apart from the entire cast of a movie that just opened.

I figured Skullboy would be key to destroying Aida, but the actual fight was anticlimactic. Swish, bamf, burn Aida with chain.

And how exactly did Skullboy’s better half get into Coulson?

Did Fitz know that Aida was torturing a Jemmabot? Is he really that good at faking desperate misery?

And if not—if he thought Aida killed Jemma—then why wasn’t Fitz overcome with joy, relief, confusion and even more guilt when he sees the real Jemma is alive?

Seriously, she needs a Starfleet uniform after that speech at the end about staying with the team.

It wasn’t much of a speech in itself, and at that point in the episode it was just one more thing piled in. They tried to do way too much here, and everything was crammed in at odd angles.

Agreed that Radcliffe’s final line was the best scene in the episode.

And it would’ve been perfect if that had been the very last scene.

Okay…who was it that caught the team at the end? And used the green flash drive thingy to paralyze them?

And the stinger. I really don’t get the stinger. Is Coulson now a brainwashed asteroid miner? Is this yet another mind-trapped-in-fake-world scenario? Because the Framework was fun, but come on now.


So…about the Inhumans media…project…thing.

It’s a movie…but it’s also a TV series? A movie leading directly to a TV series? Or the pilot episode shown in theaters?

[Giggling Ghast]

Clearly those guys at the end ...

... were aliens. Beyond that, I have no idea what their deal was.

Another LMD-related thought:

The Superior is still active, isn't he? Several of his bodies were destroyed, but his brain is still preserved.

[LaZodiac]

General thoughts:

It was immeasurably satisfying seeing AIDA fry. Evil bitch. :smallbiggrin:

However, watching Hope fade was considerably less satisfying. Poor Mack.

I kinda wish they'd did a fade to black after Radcliffe died. That woulda made that scene perfect.

And, uh, I guess Framework Ward is dead now too? Geez.

So ... who wants to guess Coulson's secret?

My money is on him dying. Again.

It...did fade to black though.


Well, that happened.

As finales go…not great.



Ahh, Skullboy. Possibly my least favorite character in the MCU, apart from the entire cast of a movie that just opened.

I figured Skullboy would be key to destroying Aida, but the actual fight was anticlimactic. Swish, bamf, burn Aida with chain.

And how exactly did Skullboy’s better half get into Coulson?

Did Fitz know that Aida was torturing a Jemmabot? Is he really that good at faking desperate misery?

And if not—if he thought Aida killed Jemma—then why wasn’t Fitz overcome with joy, relief, confusion and even more guilt when he sees the real Jemma is alive?

Seriously, she needs a Starfleet uniform after that speech at the end about staying with the team.

It wasn’t much of a speech in itself, and at that point in the episode it was just one more thing piled in. They tried to do way too much here, and everything was crammed in at odd angles.

Agreed that Radcliffe’s final line was the best scene in the episode.

And it would’ve been perfect if that had been the very last scene.

Okay…who was it that caught the team at the end? And used the green flash drive thingy to paralyze them?

And the stinger. I really don’t get the stinger. Is Coulson now a brainwashed asteroid miner? Is this yet another mind-trapped-in-fake-world scenario? Because the Framework was fun, but come on now.


So…about the Inhumans media…project…thing.

It’s a movie…but it’s also a TV series? A movie leading directly to a TV series? Or the pilot episode shown in theaters?

Fitz is just that good an actor, yes. He knew. What's funny is that if you're watching this and paying attention...there are inconsistent things there that show you it's a fake Jemma. Fitz's "No, not Jemma" wasn't quite as emotional as it should be. Jemma saying "this is all your fault Fitz" made no sense. But Aida is a human now. She can't TELL when people are ****ing with her. It shows just how powerless she really is now that she's no longer a machine.

As for the Inhuman stuff coming, it was originally going to be a feature length movie. It's now going to be a TV series, with the pilot episode coming to cinemas before hand.


Clearly those guys at the end ...

... were aliens. Beyond that, I have no idea what their deal was.

Another LMD-related thought:

The Superior is still active, isn't he? Several of his bodies were destroyed, but his brain is still preserved.

Yup, Superior should still be active. That'ts a plot thread to touch on later!

[The New Bruceski]

So I guess next year will be Agents of S.W.O.R.D?

[Giggling Ghast]

Thinking about it, I'm semi-amused by how easily Ghost Rider curb-stomped every opponent this season, even though they kept under-selling his power level.

"Can you beat Aida?"

"I dunno, she's pretty strong."

*FIVE SECONDS LATER*

"Who wants her jawbone as a trophy?"

BTW, he had some gruesome robot kills this episode. Yeesh.

[Red Fel]

Ahh, Skullboy. Possibly my least favorite character in the MCU, apart from the entire cast of a movie that just opened.

I figured Skullboy would be key to destroying Aida, but the actual fight was anticlimactic. Swish, bamf, burn Aida with chain.

And how exactly did Skullboy’s better half get into Coulson?

First, answer to the question: It's been shown (see e.g. Mack) that the Rider can temporarily make a contract with somebody else. What we don't know is what Coulson gave it in exchange for the temporary contract.

Moving on: I really disliked how they used Robbie in this episode. I feel they squandered the character's potential. I mean, I get using him - it ties the season together nicely. But... Well, let me step back.

Season starts, Daisy is on her own, we have the ghosts on one hand and the Rider on the other. Book is revealed, ghosts are destroyed, Uncle goes nuts, Rider destroys Uncle (and himself vanishes in the process). However, due to ghost-exposure, Radcliffe does brain-stuff to May, ultimately leading to the basics of Aida's intelligence; Aida then reads the Book and develops the framework for the Framework, setting off an LMD crisis and the entire second half of the season. So it makes sense that Robbie would return, so that the Rider could finish the last of the Book-related madness. It puts a nice, neat little bow on things, and it's infuriatingly contrived.

But as I said, disliked how they used Robbie. He shows up, announces that he's been going on an awesome and lonely Hell adventure and is now a gigabadass, and proceeds to curb-stomp things, even without the Rider. It feels like the writers painted themselves into a corner with the unkillable regenerating teleporting lightning-rod villain, so they just brought in their unkillable anything-killer to clean it up.


Did Fitz know that Aida was torturing a Jemmabot? Is he really that good at faking desperate misery?

And if not—if he thought Aida killed Jemma—then why wasn’t Fitz overcome with joy, relief, confusion and even more guilt when he sees the real Jemma is alive?

I think he knew it was a Jemma!Bot and he was just good at acting. You notice how quickly he got his chill back as soon as Aida left. And as mentioned, the "It's all your fault" comment is so completely out of character for Jemma that it would have been obvious to anyone but Aida.


Seriously, she needs a Starfleet uniform after that speech at the end about staying with the team.

It wasn’t much of a speech in itself, and at that point in the episode it was just one more thing piled in. They tried to do way too much here, and everything was crammed in at odd angles.

Once again, the bookends, and obnoxious ones at that. It annoyed me for two reasons. First, it annoyed me because it was a cliche anvil, and I don't need cliche anvils - or any other kinds of anvil - dropped on me by a late-night spy-fi program. Second, it annoyed me because it hearkened back to when Daisy was playing the lone wolf, and it was annoying and stupid when she did it then, too. I get that Fitz should be mildly traumatized by what he did in the Framework, I totally get it. But his reaction - his stubborn refusal to say anything but, "Nope, that was me, I'm a monster, the end," instead of acknowledge anything anybody says - whether it actually helps him or not - is annoying and stupid, and tying it back to Daisy at the beginning of the season only hammers that home. Ugh.


Agreed that Radcliffe’s final line was the best scene in the episode.

And it would’ve been perfect if that had been the very last scene.

I don't know about perfect last scene, but it was absolutely brilliant, and gave his arc closure.

From the moment we met Radcliffe, he was seeking immortality. We first met him as a black market transhumanist scientist specializing in cybernetics, which we later found out stemmed from his desire for immortality. We then found out why he wanted immortality - he wanted to save the woman he loved, and he couldn't bear to stay and watch her die. Later, he developed a rapport with Fitz, and you realize that Fitz could have been his immortality - his living legacy - if he didn't succeed. Finally, he completes the Framework, and although frustrated when he's murdered in real life, he's content to spend his eternity with the woman he loves. When she is killed, it breaks him completely. That last scene is him finally acknowledging that immortality is beyond his reach, and that it would be meaningless without the woman who motivated the entire thing. It's beautiful, and brings him to a perfect close.


Okay…who was it that caught the team at the end? And used the green flash drive thingy to paralyze them?

And the stinger. I really don’t get the stinger. Is Coulson now a brainwashed asteroid miner? Is this yet another mind-trapped-in-fake-world scenario? Because the Framework was fun, but come on now.


https://agnostichumor.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/th-56.jpg


So…about the Inhumans media…project…thing.

It’s a movie…but it’s also a TV series? A movie leading directly to a TV series? Or the pilot episode shown in theaters?

There have been articles up about it. It's expected to be a TV series. I'm guessing they're airing a movie-length pilot in theaters as a big premiere event.

The cast is good, so that's something, at least.

Don't be confused by its placement at the end of this episode. It's not expected to have anything to do with AoS other than the use of Inhumans.

One last thing. On the one hand, I get how Hope ultimately being deleted was basically the only thing that would get Mack to leave the Framework. I get that, and it was suitably heartbreaking.

What annoys me is how quickly he got over it. Gets back to the real world, and he's fine. He's chill. Hells, the way he's looking at Yo-Yo you'd think he's just about ready to make Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope.

Look at May, who still grimaces at what she did in the Framework, and was legitimately horrified when she realized her role in Mace's real-world death. Look at Fitz, who's a hot mess over it. Look at Jemma, who has a whole lot of unresolved rage issues. Dakka dakka dakka.

Now look at Mack, who just lost his daughter for a second time. And he's... Fine? Because those years he had with her are a part of him, now, so it doesn't hurt at all, really? That's some bunk right there. I could see him and Yo-Yo embracing while he sobs silently, the whole "finding comfort in her arms" thing would be totally fitting and tragic and great. Instead, it's just, "Nah, I think I can start a real family now, here, with you, perhaps, let's find a room and get on that." The tonal shift is a bit much, is my point.

One more last thing. That last scene? Pie in a diner? Totally expecting Kyle McLachlan to show up. Way to let me down, show.

[huttj509]

One last thing. On the one hand, I get how Hope ultimately being deleted was basically the only thing that would get Mack to leave the Framework. I get that, and it was suitably heartbreaking.

What annoys me is how quickly he got over it. Gets back to the real world, and he's fine. He's chill. Hells, the way he's looking at Yo-Yo you'd think he's just about ready to make Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope.

Look at May, who still grimaces at what she did in the Framework, and was legitimately horrified when she realized her role in Mace's real-world death. Look at Fitz, who's a hot mess over it. Look at Jemma, who has a whole lot of unresolved rage issues. Dakka dakka dakka.

Now look at Mack, who just lost his daughter for a second time. And he's... Fine? Because those years he had with her are a part of him, now, so it doesn't hurt at all, really? That's some bunk right there. I could see him and Yo-Yo embracing while he sobs silently, the whole "finding comfort in her arms" thing would be totally fitting and tragic and great. Instead, it's just, "Nah, I think I can start a real family now, here, with you, perhaps, let's find a room and get on that." The tonal shift is a bit much, is my point.



Mack is grieving over something he already grieved over, and now remembers grieving over. His regrets from the framework aren't "I did horrible things" but "I lost something, my child, my family. I want a new one."

He spent years in the real world wondering what dad life would have been. Wondering what Hope would have been like, thinking about what might have been.
He got it. He got to know her, the child he had lost. It hurts to lose her again, but now instead of wondering what might have been, if he'd have done right by his daughter, what he'd be like as a dad, he knows. And he's ready to make it real.

[Red Fel]

Mack is grieving over something he already grieved over, and now remembers grieving over. His regrets from the framework aren't "I did horrible things" but "I lost something, my child, my family. I want a new one."

He spent years in the real world wondering what dad life would have been. Wondering what Hope would have been like, thinking about what might have been.
He got it. He got to know her, the child he had lost. It hurts to lose her again, but now instead of wondering what might have been, if he'd have done right by his daughter, what he'd be like as a dad, he knows. And he's ready to make it real.

See, I can see that. I can totally see that. I just see it taking more time.

Think about how long it took the rest of the team to assimilate having lived two lives. And for the most part, they were able to dismiss some of the pain of it, with the mantra of "it wasn't real."

Mack just wakes up, sheds a single tear, and a scene later he's already moving forward. I agree that, now that he has those memories, he's ready to move forward instead of letting doubt hold him back. But I feel like it would take more time to get him there. Cramming it into this episode just feels too rushed, the emotional growth doesn't feel genuine.

[LaZodiac]

See, I can see that. I can totally see that. I just see it taking more time.

Think about how long it took the rest of the team to assimilate having lived two lives. And for the most part, they were able to dismiss some of the pain of it, with the mantra of "it wasn't real."

Mack just wakes up, sheds a single tear, and a scene later he's already moving forward. I agree that, now that he has those memories, he's ready to move forward instead of letting doubt hold him back. But I feel like it would take more time to get him there. Cramming it into this episode just feels too rushed, the emotional growth doesn't feel genuine.

This might be related to the fact that this is the final episode and they'll have him touch more on his feelings later. One could argue his rushing to start a family with Yo-Yo is because he IS grief struck. This is his method of coping, hiding it inside and trying to move on as quickly as possible. It could also be a religion thing, cause I'm pretty sure the people who've shown the most horror at the framework are the people who are pretty clearly non religious? That might just be silly though.

Another potential silly idea is that the Spirit of Vengeance consumed a lot of the pain tied to that, so while it still affects Mack, it isn't affecting him as much as it normally would because our good friend a skull ate his grief.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

See, I can see that. I can totally see that. I just see it taking more time.

Think about how long it took the rest of the team to assimilate having lived two lives. And for the most part, they were able to dismiss some of the pain of it, with the mantra of "it wasn't real."

Mack just wakes up, sheds a single tear, and a scene later he's already moving forward. I agree that, now that he has those memories, he's ready to move forward instead of letting doubt hold him back. But I feel like it would take more time to get him there. Cramming it into this episode just feels too rushed, the emotional growth doesn't feel genuine.

While I agree that it probably should have taken a bit more time - in the form of a single chest-beating scene to let us know it did happen - the episode was already crammed to the gills and I suspect it might have been left in the cutting floor.

However, to play's Devil's Advocate, you could argue that he did have the time: once he woke up, he recovered the memories of 10 years of dealing with the death of his actual daughter. He had, in some manner, already moved on and managed to deal with the grief in this reality, and when he woke up, all those memories and "movings on" where back in his head, after being repressed. This is not comparable to Fitz, who had never been an evil a-hole before he went into the matrix, nor May, who was never an enforcer for the nazis.

Mac was a father who had lost his daughter outside, and he just was forced to go through the whole thing a second time - but when he woke, it wasn't a shift to what he used to be, just two sets of lives going through the same trauma, time shifted by about 8 years. Instead of having to deal with the fact that, if things had gone different he'd be an evil bastard (like Fitz or May), he is just, painfully, being reminded that he could have had a daughter, and she would have been great. But he has been dealing with that pain before the matrix, just with a fresh coat of paint on it.
Grey Wolf

[Rogar Demonblud]

Just a quick note that up fronts are out, and it looks like ABC is moving the Marvel shows to Friday night (the 9/8 slot opposite Hawaii Five-0).

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Just a quick note that up fronts are out, and it looks like ABC is moving the Marvel shows to Friday night (the 9/8 slot opposite Hawaii Five-0).

That's the slot of death, right?

I'd be fine with that, if they really do let the series end. A good last season, give the characters a happy ever after or a hero's death, and call the story complete.

GW

[Bowerbird]

Don't think this needs a spoiler, but just in case:
Did anyone else catch the off-hand comment from the Superior about how his body was designed "Only for Killing" One could almost say that he's a Mechanical-Organism, Designed Only for Killing, perhaps?

[Giggling Ghast]

That's the slot of death, right?

I'd be fine with that, if they really do let the series end. A good last season, give the characters a happy ever after or a hero's death, and call the story complete.

GW

In all likelihood, Season 5 will be the last outing for Agents of Shield. Which is perfectly OK — the story has to end at some point, and it feels like we're nearing the point where at least some of the characters are ready to ride into the sunset.


Don't think this needs a spoiler, but just in case:
Did anyone else catch the off-hand comment from the Superior about how his body was designed "Only for Killing" One could almost say that he's a Mechanical-Organism, Designed Only for Killing, perhaps?

No, I missed that! Good catch! But if you think about it, the Russian is kind of is a perfect stand-in for that character, since he's just a head now.

[Giggling Ghast]

Don't think this needs a spoiler, but just in case:
Did anyone else catch the off-hand comment from the Superior about how his body was designed "Only for Killing" One could almost say that he's a Mechanical-Organism, Designed Only for Killing, perhaps?

I looked up some information online and discovered that at some point ...

... MODOK upgraded to MODOK Superior.

So yeah, I think it's very intentional.

[Havelocke]

I believe that the team is on a spaceship/station and will make an appearance in the next Avengers. Somehow linking Guardians to what is happening on Earth. Coulson united the Avengers in death, he can unite them again in life. Granted most of the Avengers will be pissed that he was in hiding for years without saying "hi". I did not get a good look at the ships or background, could they be on the dark side of the moon with the Inhumans?

[Rogar Demonblud]

That's the slot of death, right?

Technically, no. That'd be the 5 slots opposite the stiffest ratings competition, which would be NCIS (where Fox moved Lethal Weapon), Bull, NCIS LA, The Voice and NCIS NoLa (where AoS spent last season). CBS Friday night is their weakest night (other than Saturday, but no one tries there any more).

[Joran]

Technically, no. That'd be the 5 slots opposite the stiffest ratings competition, which would be NCIS (where Fox moved Lethal Weapon), Bull, NCIS LA, The Voice and NCIS NoLa (where AoS spent last season). CBS Friday night is their weakest night (other than Saturday, but no one tries there any more).

Friday night tends to be the place where shows go to die, because it has the smallest audience of all the weeknights (lots of people go out on Fridays).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot

That said, AoS is one of the most watched shows on DVR, so it could survive with that expectation.



Did Fitz know that Aida was torturing a Jemmabot? Is he really that good at faking desperate misery?

And if not—if he thought Aida killed Jemma—then why wasn’t Fitz overcome with joy, relief, confusion and even more guilt when he sees the real Jemma is alive?


Fitzbot did a good job of acting when he was a LMD.

[Zalabim]

Did Fitz know that Aida was torturing a Jemmabot? Is he really that good at faking desperate misery?

And if not—if he thought Aida killed Jemma—then why wasn’t Fitz overcome with joy, relief, confusion and even more guilt when he sees the real Jemma is alive?

Yes? No? Whichever of these makes the most sense? The actor is that good of an actor by making Fitz not that good of an actor since I noticed his pleas were a little bit less heartfelt, more insincere, particularly towards the end. I thought it sounded like Fitz was faking it.

[Dragonexx]

On another note, anyone have any idea about the dimension ghost rider sling-ringed into? I have a vague feeling it might be relevant in the future.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Yes? No? Whichever of these makes the most sense? The actor is that good of an actor by making Fitz not that good of an actor since I noticed his pleas were a little bit less heartfelt, more insincere, particularly towards the end. I thought it sounded like Fitz was faking it.

This. Fitz the character, is NOT that good an actor: he didn't look distressed enough, especially once the stabbing happened, and when he offered to take her to the Darkhold, he was immediately calm. It would not have fooled anyone other than an emotionally immature Aida.

GW

[Havelocke]

Ghost Rider went to Tibet to return the book to the Sorcerers. I hope he makes an appearance in Dr. Strange 2.

[Red Fel]

On another note, anyone have any idea about the dimension ghost rider sling-ringed into? I have a vague feeling it might be relevant in the future.

On the one hand, I doubt that it will, except if the writers decide to bring the Rider back. Which they might, or might not. Even if they do, where he went may be less relevant than the fact that he left, and will return.

On the other hand, I am so glad that somebody else saw that. I was thinking "Sling Ring," but wasn't going to say anything, but... Yeah.

This show has shown a total willingness to dig through the movies' trash, and I love it. His Sling Ring portal was no exception. On a related note, I'm also onboard with the people suggesting that the space station is going to be a GoG tie-in.

[Giggling Ghast]

Ghost Rider went to hide the Darkhold in the darkest pit known to man, a place so associated with vileness and depravity in the Marvel universe that the book's evil will be lost amidst the sea of darkness ...

... CANADA.

I mean, that's clearly British Columbia through the portal. :smalltongue:

[LaZodiac]

This. Fitz the character, is NOT that good an actor: he didn't look distressed enough, especially once the stabbing happened, and when he offered to take her to the Darkhold, he was immediately calm. It would not have fooled anyone other than an emotionally immature Aida.

GW

Yup. I actually mentioned this earlier. In particular his "No Jemma!" part almost sounded sarcastic. It's subtle, and the first moment I noticed something must be up. It's really good, and a reminder that this show isn't afraid of making characters act badly as part of the script (see: early season Grant Ward).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Friday night tends to be the place where shows go to die, because it has the smallest audience of all the weeknights (lots of people go out on Fridays).

That stopped being true a while ago--before DVRs became a thing, actually. And the whole what's-good-what's-bad framework studios work with has been in flux for a while and it's only getting worse (the 18-30 demographic isn't the main target anymore because they don't have money, cord cutting is a growing problem, the Big Three and Fox are losing to other channels for original programming, etc).

[MikelaC1]

That stopped being true a while ago--before DVRs became a thing, actually. And the whole what's-good-what's-bad framework studios work with has been in flux for a while and it's only getting worse (the 18-30 demographic isn't the main target anymore because they don't have money, cord cutting is a growing problem, the Big Three and Fox are losing to other channels for original programming, etc).

I would have to agree, time slot is no longer really an issue. Before you would have to use a TV guide to figure out when a show was on, then program your VCR and hope it could take weekly instructions and hope for the best. Now with DVRs its push one button, the recording is set, push a second button and it takes the whole series, heck my DVR even remembers from year to year, even if they move the time slot.

[Calemyr]

Fritz isn't a bad actor, like early Jemma, but he's not a great one. Here, however, he's got some solid motivation. Even if that LMD isn't the genuine article, it looks and acts like her well enough to be a proper motivator. I mean, it would be hard to see anyone in that position, stabbed, tortured and then electrocuted to death, right in front of you. And this isn't just anyone, it's a facsimile of the love of his life. Even knowing it's not the actual Jemma, it's still her image being brutalized. That's gonna bring on a tide of emotion that Fitz could ride. Likely, that's the reason she said it was his fault - it was a non-Jemma enough move to break the spell before it actually did add to Fritz's ever-growing trauma conga. Also, Aida is clearly not paying much attention beyond her own satisfaction, as Ghost Rider identified robots with a single punch while Aida (previously a robot herself) failed to make the connection. She's too high on rage to spot the little things that don't add up.

I do wonder what reason Reyes and Coulson were hinting at for the Rider agreeing to swap mounts for a single fight. We've seen him do it before with Mack, but he wanted to stay in Mack because the big guy's pain was made him a perfect host. The Rider had every reason to be willing to swap into Coulson to destroy a foe like that, it was the return that really kinda worried me. I suppose Coulson is not innocent enough to be a host for the Rider? I mean, besides killing Ward in anger (and accidentally feeding Hive in the process), he's an old hand at the spycraft business and has probably done some pretty bad stuff in the name of good. If pain were all that it took to create a perfect host, May would be divine - especially now.

I severely doubt this is a mindwipe/mindscape scenario. Agents likes using their finale stinger as a time skip with zero context. Odds are that the troops that captured them were not, in fact, military but alien. The team, alienated from the people they serve, get dragooned into an outer space mission. In the end, they'll probably return to Earth to find that life without SHIELD has not been kind to Talbot, so that he's grateful to see Coulson again (or whoever survives the mission, anyway).

[Malimar]

So I wasn't keeping up because Hulu started demanding I sign up for a Plus account to watch it, but now it's come to Netflix so I've watched almost the whole season in the past few days.

The shot-of-vodka-and-sniff-an-onion thing... is that a real thing people do?

I don't tend to like fake-reality stories, but they managed to make the Framework episodes interesting anyway. Enough Mirror Universe kind of stuff to be interesting.

I was very glad that Fitz had to be forced at gunpoint to leave the Framework and it wasn't the power of his lurve for Simmons or somesuch terrible cliche nonsense that saved him.

I like crazy Aida. I liked robot Aida, too. I just like her in general. Her gradual transformation into a psychopath was a million times more satisfying than the Ultron-goes-crazy-for-barely-any-reason senselessness from Age of Ultron.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I like crazy Aida. I liked robot Aida, too. I just like her in general.

If you haven't seen it already, you may enjoy the actress' performance in Galavant, where she plays a similar (but not identical) role.

GW

[Malimar]

Aida had the ability to simulate a bunch of Inhumans she had never even met (Gordon and Lincoln are mentioned), right down to their DNA, but needed Fitz to (within the Framework) do experiments on them so she could replicate their abilities in her real world body? :smallconfused:


If you haven't seen it already, you may enjoy the actress' performance in Galavant, where she plays a similar (but not identical) role.

GW
I've heard good things about that show. I'll probably check it out if I can find it.

[huttj509]

The shot-of-vodka-and-sniff-an-onion thing... is that a real thing people do?


Yes. http://peckthebeak.com/2011/06/vodka-onion-shots-delicious-and-perfect-for-parties/

[thatSeniorGuy]

If you haven't seen it already, you may enjoy the actress' performance in Galavant, where she plays a similar (but not identical) role.

Huh ... I didn't recognise her without

the snotty princess attitude and crown!

Now I'm disappointed that Aida didn't create everyone in the Framework with the directive to spontaneously break out into song every five minutes.


Aida had the ability to simulate a bunch of Inhumans she had never even met (Gordon and Lincoln are mentioned), right down to their DNA, but needed Fitz to (within the Framework) do experiments on them so she could replicate their abilities in her real world body? :smallconfused:


Mumble mumble Darkhold mumble mumble.



I've heard good things about that show. I'll probably check it out if I can find it.

If you're okay with the aforementioned breaking out into song, then do so! I'm very sad that they had to stop at two seasons, but at least they wrapped it up well.

[Dilvish]

If you haven't seen it already, you may enjoy the actress' performance in Galavant, where she plays a similar (but not identical) role.

GW

That was the same actress? I didn't recognize her. Oh, I loved Galavant, and the two leading ladies.

[Dilvish]

Huh ... I didn't recognise her without

the snotty princess attitude and crown!

Now I'm disappointed that Aida didn't create everyone in the Framework with the directive to spontaneously break out into song every five minutes.



Mumble mumble Darkhold mumble mumble.



If you're okay with the aforementioned breaking out into song, then do so! I'm very sad that they had to stop at two seasons, but at least they wrapped it up well.

I was hoping Galavant would get a third season.

I don't know how they could do a massive song and dance routine in the Framework - well maybe a dream sequence like they did with Agent Carter. It would have been fun though.

[Joran]

I was hoping Galavant would get a third season.

I don't know how they could do a massive song and dance routine in the Framework - well maybe a dream sequence like they did with Agent Carter. It would have been fun though.

Well, if there's an Agents of Shield/Guardians of the Galaxy crossover, I'm sure they can find a way to incorporate a dance battle into it ;)

[LaZodiac]

Galavant

WE'RE OFF ON A SECRET MISSION, WE'RE OFF ON A SECRET PLOT!

But yeah, concerning Aida's ability to put things into her world that she herself had not seen...she did have access to all those brains. So she cobbled them together from their thoughts and memories. As for how the studying of his body works and how she translated it into her flesh body...well, yeah, Darkhold. Literally a satan book guys, sometimes that's enough of an explanation.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I've heard good things about that show. I'll probably check it out if I can find it.

I saw it on Netflix, so hopefully it is still there. Wouldn't be surprised if it didn't pop up in your recommended list after watching SHIELD: as you can see there is a non-insignificant overlap in viewership.

King's Enforcer: "And with no Galavant distracting your wife..."
King: "We could start a genocidal waaaaaar"
Court "We could start a... wait, what?!"

GW

[Yana]

"WE'RE THE LORDS OF THE SEA!"

"...Except we aren't at sea."

"WE'RE THE LORDS OF THE SEA!"

"...Just not of the actual sea."

[Tvtyrant]

I started watching this recently, into the second season now.

The author's really hate Fritz don't they?

[Douglas]

I'm not sure "hate" is the right word. He does go through some seriously unpleasant things, but so do a lot of the characters in this show. He also gets a large share of triumphs, successes, and times of happiness, and he does recover from the damage Ward caused him.

[Malimar]

Might one say Fitz is a bit Miles O'Brien-ish -- one episode a season is a "O'Brien Fitz Must Suffer" episode? (Probably more often than once a season in Fitz's case -- but I'd agree that he gets it worse more often than most other characters, with Simmons second and Coulson tied with Skye for third.)

Probably for the same reasoning -- O'Brien and Fitz are the most likeable and everymanish in their respective casts, so you get more audience pathos out of torturing them than out of torturing other characters. Imagine them doing to May the kinds of things they did to Fitz -- suffering doesn't lead May to angst, it just makes her more violencey.



RE: Galavant: This would be a lot more fun if I thought the songs were any good. Gonna give it a couple more episodes to see if it picks up.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

RE: Galavant: This would be a lot more fun if I thought the songs were any good. Gonna give it a couple more episodes to see if it picks up.

They are scored by Alan Menken, of Beauty & the Beast and Aladdin fame - and his style is distinctive enough my SO guessed it was him after just a few songs. If the songs in the first couple of episodes weren't to your liking, they rest aren't going to be that different, I'm afraid.

GW

[Malimar]

They are scored by Alan Menken, of Beauty & the Beast and Aladdin fame - and his style is distinctive enough my SO guessed it was him after just a few songs. If the songs in the first couple of episodes weren't to your liking, they rest aren't going to be that different, I'm afraid.

GW

Yeah, Alan Menken is great, which is why I was very surprised not to like the songs.

[Tvtyrant]

Might one say Fitz is a bit Miles O'Brien-ish -- one episode a season is a "O'Brien Fitz Must Suffer" episode? (Probably more often than once a season in Fitz's case -- but I'd agree that he gets it worse more often than most other characters, with Simmons second and Coulson tied with Skye for third.)

Probably for the same reasoning -- O'Brien and Fitz are the most likeable and everymanish in their respective casts, so you get more audience pathos out of torturing them than out of torturing other characters. Imagine them doing to May the kinds of things they did to Fitz -- suffering doesn't lead May to angst, it just makes her more violencey.



RE: Galavant: This would be a lot more fun if I thought the songs were any good. Gonna give it a couple more episodes to see if it picks up.

What is weird to me is thst Fritz isn't exactly a nice guy to begin with. At no point is he not pigheaded, jealous and bad at expressing himself.

It reminds me a of Family Guy's torture of Meg, honestly. The only reason I am sympathetic to the character at this point is they go out of the way to physically and emotionally torture him.

[The New Bruceski]

It's Fitz, not Fritz

[Aotrs Commander]

Well, now I have seen the season four finale, I can come post here without worrying about spoilers (since the UK is so far behind and I'm behind that because of holidays!)

Very much enjoyed that season.

I liked Ada better befoe she got emotions...!

Mind you, she was a very good villain, actually, I thought.

Makes up for the fact that they WERE - and self-awarely - doing the Robots Are Teh Evuls old schitck, which in general, I am not a fan of. The fact they did it well enough that I only wanted to smack Mac several times speaks volumes. (And me wating to smack Mac is a regular occurance. For me he has juuuuust enough moments where I find him entertaining that it outweight all his other moments, else I would outright dislike the guy. Right judgemental bloke, that one. First aliens, the inhumans, then robots... The only good news is, at the rate they are going, they'll run ot of things for him to be be immediately judegemental of next season.


Coulson is still best, Daisy is SO close behind... Gemma has come SO far and it is amazing, because she's got more steel in her than Ada EVER had, my frag. And poor, long suffering Fitz. Poor lad. Never catches a break...

Mace was goo,d bt I somehow had the feeling he wouldn't make it out the season.

But it was nice to see Trip again, and Not-Evil Ward was fun.

Roll on next season.

I mean, it's not like I've got a lot of telly to watch nowadays (this, Murdoch Mysteries (assuming the season cliffhanger for last season doesn't frack that up), Supergirl and Doctor Who is about it, aside from MLP, the Deep and Dragons: Race to the Edge)...

[Giggling Ghast]

A new Inhumans trailer has been released! And my reaction is ... needs more Lockjaw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sYF1SXcWqQ

[Aotrs Commander]

A new Inhumans trailer has been released! And my reaction is ... needs more Lockjaw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1sYF1SXcWqQ

That... looks pretty terrible. You have a whole race of super-powered beings that is now in the public consciousness (thanks to SHIELD), and you show us one half-hearted teleport and one sort-of breath that looks like Diasy farted? THAT'S what you choose on your trailer? *sigh*

It is in the same continuity and the other series, or is it being even more pointless than it looks? (Because it doesn't look very much like it is.)

[Giggling Ghast]

That seems to be the general reaction online to the trailer.

Except for Lockjaw. Everybody loves Lockjaw.

http://www.ibtimes.com/marvels-inhumans-trailer-reveals-lockjaw-fans-react-alien-dog-2559350

[LaZodiac]

That... looks pretty terrible. You have a whole race of super-powered beings that is now in the public consciousness (thanks to SHIELD), and you show us one half-hearted teleport and one sort-of breath that looks like Diasy farted? THAT'S what you choose on your trailer? *sigh*

It is in the same continuity and the other series, or is it being even more pointless than it looks? (Because it doesn't look very much like it is.)

To be fair, Lockjaw's teleport looked kinda snazzy actually, to me. As for Blackbolt's little fart breath...if he so much as speaks he can shatter planets, that was just a tiny barely whispered grunt, of course it's not that impressive.

That said, I think this IS meant to be in canon, which is why all our Shield buddies are in space right now, so they don't actually get involved with them.

[Aotrs Commander]

That seems to be the general reaction online to the trailer.

Except for Lockjaw. Everybody loves Lockjaw.

http://www.ibtimes.com/marvels-inhumans-trailer-reveals-lockjaw-fans-react-alien-dog-2559350

I do not love Lockjaw. (In any incarnation.)


To be fair, Lockjaw's teleport looked kinda snazzy actually, to me.

Couldn't tell you where, but I'm sure I've seen that sort of streaky-wibbly teleport effect on other shows before.


As for Blackbolt's little fart breath...if he so much as speaks he can shatter planets, that was just a tiny barely whispered grunt, of course it's not that impressive.

I was less referring to the magnitude and more to the fact it the effect looks visually like a naff version of Daisy's awesome quake powers.

At least those are the impressions the trailer immediately gave me.


That said, I think this IS meant to be in canon, which is why all our Shield buddies are in space right now, so they don't actually get involved with them.

Which even more begs the baffling question of why they appear to be taking this route (which looks like it could be an entirely seperate continuity), rather than... Y'know, doing something to obviously tie it in with the rest. (I mean, at last count I was expecting this to be a movie. Which was why until I saw the "series" quote in the trailer I was like even less impressed...)

But I suppose this explains why Talbot is in a coma.

(I was, actually, almost disappointed he survived...)

And great, now after all Phil and Daisy's hard work, the moment their back is turned, some bunch of nonces come in and undo everything...

[Giggling Ghast]

I do not love Lockjaw. (In any incarnation]

Whatever, Lord No-Heart. I'm sure you'll destroy those wretched Care Bears one day. :smalltongue:

[Rogar Demonblud]

I mean, at last count I was expecting this to be a movie.

That went off the board when Ike Perlmutter left.

Anyway, as far as TV show trailers go, this is about par for the course (in that they all suck). For a show that'll have a significant V/SFX budget, this is even more the case. I'm not going to worry about it until after Labor Day.

Spiderman opens next weekend. Everyone got their tickets?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Spiderman opens next weekend. Everyone got their tickets?

I'll be traveling, so will have to miss it. First MCU opening weekend I'll miss since Iron Man 2. Most annoying part: having to avoid spoilers for like 2 weeks until I'll be in a position to watch it.

GW

[Rogar Demonblud]

Given how Sony does trailers, I'm pretty sure you're already spoiled.

[Thrudd]

We're about to have on TV a series featuring a giant teleporting dog and a character who's super power is hair, a kung fu expert, a fish man, and a guy that can't talk without blowing up a city. I think this is an accomplishment, however the show actually turns out. It's a fun time to be a comics fan.

[t209]

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/79641/3532703-tumblr_mu7nn1mg7w1spe9yao1_500.jpg
Just leaving it there as response for the trailer.
Also another animated ti-..I mean series that Marvel have come CLOSE to figure out how to many decent animated adaptation IN A BAD WAY.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzo5L0wG7mw
Also was it me, or someone at Voltron animated since Peter Parker look like mix of Pidge and Harry Potter.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Given how Sony does trailers, I'm pretty sure you're already spoiled.

It's not Sony picture, is Marvel Studios. Also, I've been avoiding those to the best of my ability - I've only seen the first teaser, and unlike, say, the Batman v Superman, I didn't get the impression I had just watched the whole film, so I should be good.

GW

[Rogar Demonblud]

Marvel and Sony are splitting duties on the film (and the sequel). Sony is handling Promotions and Advertising, including trailers.

If you've been avoiding them, well, good job. I never seem to manage that.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, so, I went ahead and decided to take a breather and pick up agents of shield. I got busy when it was airing and missed an episode, so I figured I'd wait till it hit Netflicks.


I'm beginning to regret that decision, cause were in the framework (the episode is What If.) and I'm five minutes in and already desperate to get back to the real world again. Are the eps inside the framework in any way skipable? And what episode do they actually get out of it? Is it just like a 1 and done, are we spending the rest of the season on this?

[Milo v3]

Ok, so, I went ahead and decided to take a breather and pick up agents of shield. I got busy when it was airing and missed an episode, so I figured I'd wait till it hit Netflicks.


I'm beginning to regret that decision, cause were in the framework (the episode is What If.) and I'm five minutes in and already desperate to get back to the real world again. Are the eps inside the framework in any way skipable? And what episode do they actually get out of it? Is it just like a 1 and done, are we spending the rest of the season on this?

Definitely not skippable as it goes from episode 16 to 20.

[Douglas]

There's a fair bit of character development in the Framework, along with the extraction plot line. If you skip the Framework episodes, you'll be missing important context for the season finale (which is back in the real world).

[Metahuman1]

damn it. *Sigh.* Who ever had the bright idea too insist on doing a VR dystopia for 4 whole episodes is a moron.

[Milo v3]

damn it. *Sigh.* Who ever had the bright idea too insist on doing a VR dystopia for 4 whole episodes is a moron.

Everyone I know loved it, so less moron and more "has a different opinion".

[Aotrs Commander]

Everyone I know loved it, so less moron and more "has a different opinion".

I thought that it made for a change to do the Evil Mirror Universe is an interesting way and to spend a bit more time on it than usual.

Though I will say the first episode or so dragged a bit longer than was necessary maybe; I think they could maybe have skipped one episode out of that and maybe made it a bit punchier, but I'm nit-picking, really.

But in terms of Things I Have A Problem with, the most recent finale of Murdoch Mysteries far and away outweights that. (That was not the usual pleasant watch. When they are on at the same time, Me and Mum usually watch SHIELD first and Murdoch second, since the latter is generally quite light-hearted, funny and silly. The most recent finale was none of those things, and it's the first episode for a long time I didn't really like.)

[Kitten Champion]

But in terms of Things I Have A Problem with, the most recent finale of Murdoch Mysteries far and away outweights that. (That was not the usual pleasant watch. When they are on at the same time, Me and Mum usually watch SHIELD first and Murdoch second, since the latter is generally quite light-hearted, funny and silly. The most recent finale was none of those things, and it's the first episode for a long time I didn't really like.)

Yeah, I know what you mean. Murdoch's finale was less a cliffhanger and more a means of plausibly erasing much of the cast depending on how much the actors demand for next season. It was also just not a good episode, the non-linear presentation undermined the drama rather than developing it in any fashion as it bluntly told you everything and then went back to show you later.

Though, with regards to Agents of SHIELD second half, it was fine. The framework arc let them do something more epic in scope within the limitations clearly pressed upon them by being not-quite-MCU network television. Which was the frustrating thing about last season where they spent much of it back-peddling the whole Inhumans thing that galvanized the show in season 2 rather than building upon it to construct their own mythos. It also let them do show-based fanservice with bringing back Ward and Trip in such a fashion that it didn't come off as eye-rolling but a more sincere send-offs to the characters than Trip's sudden demise or Ward's dragged-out Hive arc.

That being said, the finale itself felt rushed and - like always - under-resourced. Such that it didn't leave much of an impression for what could have been pretty cool. I think they could have done something more interesting with Aida-made-flesh than just turn her into a monster and then brush her away like chaff with Ghostrider as well.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Honestly, I think the Ghost Rider arc last Autumn was the high point of the last couple seasons.

[JadedDM]

I can certainly understand where people are coming from when they say the Framework arc lasted a little too long, but overall, I really enjoyed it.

[Giggling Ghast]

I personally enjoyed the visit to Hydraverse, ie. the Framework.

[LaZodiac]

I can certainly understand where people are coming from when they say the Framework arc lasted a little too long, but overall, I really enjoyed it.

I loved it myself. Especially since the comics have Stupid Wars going on right now, which is basically a more real version of the Framework's Hydraverse, but done worse and badly in every way.

And unlikely the mothership that is comics, Shield wasn't afraid to say that...you know, Hydra is nazis.

[Joran]

I loved it myself. Especially since the comics have Stupid Wars going on right now, which is basically a more real version of the Framework's Hydraverse, but done worse and badly in every way.

And unlikely the mothership that is comics, Shield wasn't afraid to say that...you know, Hydra is nazis.

As Mr. Coulson would tell you, that's just propaganda. Hydra aren't Nazis; Hydra is descended from a long esteemed line of scholars and aristocrats... who just happen to worship a death god trapped on another planet...

Also, count me as among the people who enjoyed the Framework.

[t209]

As Mr. Coulson would tell you, that's just propaganda. Hydra aren't Nazis; Hydra is descended from a long esteemed line of scholars and aristocrats... who just happen to worship a death god trapped on another planet...

Also, count me as among the people who enjoyed the Framework.

Discounting concentration camps on Inhumans (sorry, Marvel, you can't just try to make them sympathetic after they try to go all-Gundam-Titans (named after organization who likes to gas people), youth radicals, and totalitarian.
Granted that Wanda was cosmic-cubed into possessed, but magneto somehow became not!King of mutants and remember the last time when Red Skull try to put together a team but failed.

[Giggling Ghast]

It's kind of funny that HYDRA, which started out as an Inhuman-worshipping cult, would end up persecuting Inhumans in the Framework.

But of course, the whole purpose of their anti-Inhuman agenda was to give Madame Hydra a s***load of Inhuman powers. So in a way, the virtual Hydra was still following their real-world counterparts' original mandate.

[t209]

Question: What is equivalent to Zeta Gundam's Titans in Marvel universe?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?524980-Gundam-Zeta-With-Marvel-characters
I mean they already did Hydra-take over for "generic oppresive security force", but I also remembered HAMMER who is like Marvel's own Titans but gassing people who disagreed with them goes to Inhumans (except Tomino isn't dumb enough to label them as good guys, though Maximus could be good Paptimus Scirocco).
Any idea?

[Giggling Ghast]

Casting a Raise Dead spell on this thread to remind everyone that Agents of Shield (In SPACE!) returns this Friday, Dec. 1.

[Milo v3]

The first 17 minutes of the new episode is also watchable on youtube. It answers maybe two questions and raises about twelve more.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Casting a Raise Dead spell on this thread to remind everyone that Agents of Shield (In SPACE!) returns this Friday, Dec. 1.

It's been moved the the Friday Night Death Slot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot)? That's ominous.

GW

[Giggling Ghast]

It's been moved the the Friday Night Death Slot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friday_night_death_slot)? That's ominous.

I’m 99.9 per cent sure this is Agents’ last season. The ratings have never been stellar, but I think ABC wanted to give them one last chance to wrap things up.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I've seen a lot of people on the Net saying for a few years that there's no way the show would make it past Infinity War's rewrite of the setting. Looks like they're right.

[Dilvish]

I'm the first to comment about the season premiere?

I did not expect the time-travel. Assuming they actually have. I do think they have, I'm just keeping open the possibility of that being false. Apparently others have been sent to the space station before?

Where is Fitz? Why wasn't he on the list? Was he drafted by someone else in the fantasy league? :) I was halfway expecting the actor to play the Kree leader? Speaking of Casiun (?), are he and the Kree woman fully Kree, or some kind of hybrid?

How much of what was explained about the situation is true? I don't believe that Daisy destroyed Earth. That is too much power for a single super-powered individual, and I like to believe that the writers wouldn't go that far. A silly hope of mine? Also, Zeke is basing his theory on limited information. It's more likely that Earth was destroyed during the Infinity Wars.

[JadedDM]

Apparently others have been sent to the space station before?
From the past? I don't think so. At least, everyone else seemed surprised by the idea.

I'm curious where the prophecy came from. Did Fitz figure it out and make sure to pass it on to the remnants of humanity before he died?


Where is Fitz?
I'm assuming he's dead from old age, if not something else.


Speaking of Casiun (?), are he and the Kree woman fully Kree, or some kind of hybrid?
Not sure. In terms of appearance, Kree are just blue humans. So what would a hybrid look like? Less blue?


Also, Zeke is basing his theory on limited information.
Yeah, he outright said he was 'piecing it together.' There's no real way to know. Although if Quake did destroy Earth, wouldn't her being sent to the future undo that? Unless we're talking multiple universe theory.

[huttj509]

Not sure. In terms of appearance, Kree are just blue humans. So what would a hybrid look like? Less blue?


I think the question was based in that the Kree we've seen on the show besides Vin-Tak (in the Sif episode) have all been bald soldier guys, until the 2 mentioned.
Thus they looked different, more 'human.'

[Zalabim]

In comic books, there are "pink" or "white" kree as a result of different genetic experiments because of the species being "locked" out of further evolution. The blue ones are pure kree, and hold greater power in society, but the various hybrids are ultimately more common. Even without the evolution angle, the show's Kree are known for genetic experiments so these may just be ones not specifically bred for killing.

[Reddish Mage]

Yeah, he outright said he was 'piecing it together.' There's no real way to know. Although if Quake did destroy Earth, wouldn't her being sent to the future undo that? Unless we're talking multiple universe theory.

On single universe theory - going to the future doesn’t change anything you will do, just as it doesn’t change what you already done. There’s one universe, one timeline. Everything happens once. There’s no changing the past or the future.

Whenever you speak about someone changes something in the timeline, there’s always multiple universes in the picture, the universe were the change occurred one where it did not. What happens to the first universe, whether time travelers remember the old past, or remain alive in a universe after not having been born, just variations on a theme.

So if time traveling to the future results in there being a past where you did travel to the future, and one where you never traveled, its fair game for time travel to take you to either one of those timelines.

One of the variations is whether just traveling in time creates the alternate universe/timeline. In many cases only changing something creates the branching point, and sometimes to change the timeline requires changing something very specific.

Basically, time travel is an all bets are off situation when it comes to causality.

[Joran]

I'm the first to comment about the season premiere?

I did not expect the time-travel. Assuming they actually have. I do think they have, I'm just keeping open the possibility of that being false. Apparently others have been sent to the space station before?

Where is Fitz? Why wasn't he on the list? Was he drafted by someone else in the fantasy league? :) I was halfway expecting the actor to play the Kree leader? Speaking of Casiun (?), are he and the Kree woman fully Kree, or some kind of hybrid?

How much of what was explained about the situation is true? I don't believe that Daisy destroyed Earth. That is too much power for a single super-powered individual, and I like to believe that the writers wouldn't go that far. A silly hope of mine? Also, Zeke is basing his theory on limited information. It's more likely that Earth was destroyed during the Infinity Wars.


I like how the first 30 minutes or so were just an unending string of jokes about their situation, but then got serious very quickly.



Yup, I'd also guess not Daisy caused.

Story-wise, Fitz was left behind so they'd have a point of view character in the past who's working it from that angle. Additionally, it continues the curse Fitz and Simmons pairing that they've been doing since season 1.

Also, Sinara is cool; I like the music they play every time she's on the screen.

[Giggling Ghast]

This was a pretty good premiere. Only thing I thought was kind of lame was the “roach”, which struck me as a touch generic. Was it supposed to be one of the Brood from the X-Men comics?

Anyways, are we certain the Agents are here to overthrow the Kree? That would only somewhat improve humanity’s lot. I think it’s more likely they’re here to get the info/tech that will enable them to save the Earth and then return.

Maybe the reason Fitz was left in the diner is because they will meet him in the future?

[Joran]

This was a pretty good premiere. Only thing I thought was kind of lame was the “roach”, which struck me as a touch generic. Was it supposed to be one of the Brood from the X-Men comics?

Anyways, are we certain the Agents are here to overthrow the Kree? That would only somewhat improve humanity’s lot. I think it’s more likely they’re here to get the info/tech that will enable them to save the Earth and then return.

Maybe the reason Fitz was left in the diner is because they will meet him in the future?



So, we know the current extraction crew on Earth are aliens and are taking orders from someone (maybe Future Fitz or Fitz communicating into the future?).

Also, one of the proof of the Agents of SHIELD that Virgil had was a note from Fitz on a very old postcard, saying he was working it (maybe as a message to the space Agents).

[random11]

I have a very big problem with this story.

We know that they will somehow come back in time eventually (especially by how the earth was destroyed).
So basically, everything they do here is pointless.
This is the Framework all over again. :smallannoyed:

[Joran]

I have a very big problem with this story.

We know that they will somehow come back in time eventually (especially by how the earth was destroyed).
So basically, everything they do here is pointless.
This is the Framework all over again. :smallannoyed:

It's not the destination, it's the journey.

Also, the Framework killed Mace and emotionally damaged Fitzsimmons, so there were ramifications.

[Reddish Mage]

I have a very big problem with this story.

We know that they will somehow come back in time eventually (especially by how the earth was destroyed).
So basically, everything they do here is pointless.
This is the Framework all over again. :smallannoyed:

I imagine SHIELD learns something from being in the future that allows them to change the past and prevent the destruction of the Earth from ever happening. The advertisement for future episodes say as much in big bold all cap letters.

Meanwhile, the explicit goal the team has now is finding a way back to the past.

Also, I don’t see how the Framework was pointless. The personal stakes were never greater, as SHIELD was fighting to rescue its Agents, and an artificial intelligence in control of the Hydraverse.

[thorgrim29]

Meanwhile, the explicit goal the team has now is finding a way back to the past.


You could even say they've got to get back, back to the past.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Which just raises the question of which one is Jack, and which is the Scotsman.

[random11]

It's not the destination, it's the journey.

Also, the Framework killed Mace and emotionally damaged Fitzsimmons, so there were ramifications.

The team was at real risk, but everything around them was meaningless.
In the previous seasons, there was some impact on the world's politics, on what people think of mutants inhumans, or actual hydra operatives that could take over the government.
In the Framework, there was an entire story developed about a revolution, but who cares? Lose, win, as long as they get out of the simulation nothing has impact on the world around them.

The way it's going, same goes here.
Maybe an important character will die, maybe they will get some new information, and maybe they even bring someone back to the past.
But as long as they will all leave back to the preset, every story revolving around a change in power or attitude between humans and kree will be tossed away for nothing.

[Joran]

The team was at real risk, but everything around them was meaningless.
In the previous seasons, there was some impact on the world's politics, on what people think of mutants inhumans, or actual hydra operatives that could take over the government.
In the Framework, there was an entire story developed about a revolution, but who cares? Lose, win, as long as they get out of the simulation nothing has impact on the world around them.

The way it's going, same goes here.
Maybe an important character will die, maybe they will get some new information, and maybe they even bring someone back to the past.
But as long as they will all leave back to the preset, every story revolving around a change in power or attitude between humans and kree will be tossed away for nothing.

The Framework had exterior consequences in that SHIELD no longer exists. Mace was the head and he was killed; Aida and the Superior made it look like he was killed by Quake. Aida got a new Inhuman body, which she wreaked havoc, allowing the Superior to implement his plan of framing SHIELD by attacking Talbot. As far as I know, the Superior is still out there and Team Coulson are basically criminals. This is in addition to the emotional consequences to many members of the team.

We just haven't seen the exterior consequences yet and I hope they address it with the team member left back.

[russdm]

I expect to see Fitz in some jail or on the run, also possibly from the government. Maybe that is what brings Hunter back: Help keep Fitz out of legal trouble.

For some reason, I honestly expect to see Skye's mom back in some form, since how do we know every single Hydra agent was removed from SHIELD? Did they really got all of them? Or did some Hydra ones just lie and remain hidden?

What about the Superior? How does matter go there, considering he is a brain in a jar with a somewhat impressive number of murder-bots at his command? Is Fitz going to have to face down that threat all by himself?

[Joran]

I expect to see Fitz in some jail or on the run, also possibly from the government. Maybe that is what brings Hunter back: Help keep Fitz out of legal trouble.

For some reason, I honestly expect to see Skye's mom back in some form, since how do we know every single Hydra agent was removed from SHIELD? Did they really got all of them? Or did some Hydra ones just lie and remain hidden?

What about the Superior? How does matter go there, considering he is a brain in a jar with a somewhat impressive number of murder-bots at his command? Is Fitz going to have to face down that threat all by himself?

And they have to somehow get Brett Dalton back onto the show.

Edit: Pretty sure Skye's Mom is dead; Skye's Dad killed her.

[Hopeless]

How about a really insane theory?
Fitz builds a new body, downloads what he assumes is a virtual copy of Mace but it turns out to create a version of Ward's body that Fits sics on the bad guys and Ward demonstrates just how dangerous he is by helping Fitz figure out what happened to the others!😮

[MikelaC1]

laughs at the Sharnado references

[Rogar Demonblud]

Nice to see Hunter again. Too bad they couldn't pry Palicki back from Orville so she could make an appearance too.

[random11]

Dear dumb alien:
For the next time you're throwing people out of their time to save earth and fulfill a prophecy only to send someone else to save them later.
Maybe consider that if you prepared them with a better cover story like you did for Fitz instead of just tossing them there, just MAYBE they wouldn't need to be rescued in the first place.

[Reddish Mage]

Dear dumb alien:
For the next time you're throwing people out of their time to save earth and fulfill a prophecy only to send someone else to save them later.
Maybe consider that if you prepared them with a better cover story like you did for Fitz instead of just tossing them there, just MAYBE they wouldn't need to be rescued in the first place.

Don't blame the alien, he's just following the orders he gets from the crayon drawings.

[Reddish Mage]

Dear dumb alien:
For the next time you're throwing people out of their time to save earth and fulfill a prophecy only to send someone else to save them later.
Maybe consider that if you prepared them with a better cover story like you did for Fitz instead of just tossing them there, just MAYBE they wouldn't need to be rescued in the first place.

Don't be too hard on the alien. He was just following orders from the crayon drawings.

[Joran]

Nice to see Hunter again. Too bad they couldn't pry Palicki back from Orville so she could make an appearance too.

I loved Hunter; still bummed that they kicked them off of the show for their series and then that series got cancelled.

My only disappointment was that Fitz didn't science his solution and instead it was kind of handed over on a platter by a random alien.

[MikelaC1]

I hope Daisy bitchslaps that alien chick...shes nothing but annoying.

[Joran]

I hope Daisy bitchslaps that alien chick...shes nothing but annoying.

I love her mostly because she has a bad-ass theme song and she played Julie Mao in the Expanse. I love how detestable she is.

[Giggling Ghast]

I thought she has pretty good presence for a mute bodyguard.

[Dilvish]

Don't be too hard on the alien. He was just following orders from the crayon drawings.

I was thinking along the same lines.

The alien has been sending others through time. I think even before he got connected with the girl. Who were the others and why were they sent? What when were they sent to? I know, I won't get all the answers I want.

[Dilvish]

I missed the very last scene. I got extra commercials instead. What did I miss?

[Reddish Mage]

I was thinking along the same lines.

The alien has been sending others through time. I think even before he got connected with the girl. Who were the others and why were they sent? What when were they sent to? I know, I won't get all the answers I want.

No, Enoch was very clear. He was forbidden from interfering in human history and did not, not until he came in contact with Robin. Here's a refresher (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Enoch_(Earth-199999)) (all from his single appearance in the MCU).

I checked and Enoch has not appeared in Marvel Comics (there are appearances by other completely different minor characters with that name) but is an original creation for the show.

The last scene was Fitz is unfrozen and Enoch is waiting for him, he tells Fitz he has a month or so to prepare before the ceremony. He says Fitz has to be able to take on some of the most ruthless killers of the galaxy and asks if Fitz can do this. Fitz says matter of factly "Yes, I can."

[Dilvish]

No, Enoch was very clear. He was forbidden from interfering in human history and did not, not until he came in contact with Robin. Here's a refresher (http://marvel.wikia.com/wiki/Enoch_(Earth-199999)) (all from his single appearance in the MCU).

I checked and Enoch has not appeared in Marvel Comics (there are appearances by other completely different minor characters with that name) but is an original creation for the show.

The last scene was Fitz is unfrozen and Enoch is waiting for him, he tells Fitz he has a month or so to prepare before the ceremony. He says Fitz has to be able to take on some of the most ruthless killers of the galaxy and asks if Fitz can do this. Fitz says matter of factly "Yes, I can."

Thanks. Last night's episode was the one that I missed the very last scene. It was a good episode. Fitz, the heartthrob action hero.

[Spacewolf]

Thanks. Last night's episode was the one that I missed the very last scene. It was a good episode. Fitz, the heartthrob action hero.

Enoch goes blueface sneaks past a guard into the lift, sets it for what I assume is the surface and then questioned shoots the kree.

He also says "I am a Kree as I have always been", then after being told nobody comes back from the surface replies "I am not a person." seems like it's supposed to be taken jokingly but I an't remember if he has ever said who built him so possible he could be kree built.

[Dilvish]

Enoch goes blueface sneaks past a guard into the lift, sets it for what I assume is the surface and then questioned shoots the kree.

He also says "I am a Kree as I have always been", then after being told nobody comes back from the surface replies "I am not a person." seems like it's supposed to be taken jokingly but I an't remember if he has ever said who built him so possible he could be kree built.

Thanks. Interesting. What is the truth about Enoch?

With Agents of SHIELD supposed to be done after this season, what are the chances that Coulson might reappear in a movie (after the show is over)?

[Spacewolf]

Thanks. Interesting. What is the truth about Enoch?

With Agents of SHIELD supposed to be done after this season, what are the chances that Coulson might reappear in a movie (after the show is over)?

Difficult to say I'm hoping they actually kill afew people of since it is the last season so far they've only been good at getting likeable characters killed it so it would be nice if they killed off afew of the true cast so their plot armour isn't as obvious.

[JadedDM]

Wait, has there been confirmation that this is the last season?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Officially? No. However, the series hits a natural break point with Infinity War, the ratings are lousy and ABC tried to kill it last year, only to be strong armed into renewing to get Inhumans (They won't make that mistake again). Really, there isn't a reason to renew.

[Giggling Ghast]

You’ll have to forgive my lateness, as I’m two episodes behind. I just wanted to make note of something, because it took me a bit to realize the connection to a previous season.

Robin is the daughter of Charles Hinton, the Inhuman precognitive from Season 3 who was, for a time, a prisoner of HIVE. He died saving Daisy from Gideon Malick. His wife was Polly.

RELEASE THE FERRETS!

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Giggling Ghast
Robin is the daughter of Charles Hinton, the Inhuman precognitive from Season 3 who was, for a time, a prisoner of HIVE. He died saving Daisy from Gideon Malick. His wife was Polly.

Yes. This was neatly encapsulated in the closeup of the wooden robin, which Charles carved for his daughter. It might have been Daisy who made sure the wooden robin reached the girl.


Originally Posted by JadedDM
Wait, has there been confirmation that this is the last season?

The Friday night timeslot is generally an ominous sign, but Disney stopped the show from being cancelled after Season 4, so there’s always the chance of another Hail Mary.

So far I’m enjoying Season 5 more than the last couple (especially Season 4, urf) but I’m also okay with this being their last hurrah. Set up Fitz and Jemma with a nice biotech lab in the Seychelles and let them mellow out for a while.

[Giggling Ghast]

The ratings have not been strong, so I would assume this is the last season for Agents of Shield. I have heard rumblings about a strong international viewership, but even if that were true, that matters little to an American TV company.

Sad, but at least they got a Season 5 to wrap things up. And wasn’t the ending of the last episode super-sweet? Awww.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It might have been Daisy who made sure the wooden robin reached the girl.

Yup, in the season three finale.

[random11]

The problem I have with SHIELD is that the show's writers always seem terrified of the movies.
In the first seasons it was at least limited to references like "Stark tech", "The hulk was here and we just missed him" and stuff like this.
Last two seasons, they are so afraid of the movie, they place the plot in a different world or timeline completely.

I'll say the same thing I say to many movies and shows: Worry about your story first, and how it connects to the cinematic universe later.

[Joran]

The problem I have with SHIELD is that the show's writers always seem terrified of the movies.
In the first seasons it was at least limited to references like "Stark tech", "The hulk was here and we just missed him" and stuff like this.
Last two seasons, they are so afraid of the movie, they place the plot in a different world or timeline completely.

I'll say the same thing I say to many movies and shows: Worry about your story first, and how it connects to the cinematic universe later.

I'm kind of confused, because your last sentence seems to contradict your first paragraph.

Anyway, Agents of SHIELD seems to be making the best of a bad situation. Because of the organizational split between Marvel TV and Marvel movies, there was never going to be a tight integration between the movies and TV shows. You'll occasionally see references from the movies in the TV show, because TV shows are written much closer to production that movies are, like the integration of the Sokovia Accords, but you'll never see the movies reference the TV show.

However, at least Marvel's letting Agents of SHIELD make their own lore and changes to the MCU, like the introduction of Inhumans (which should have made a huge impact in the movieverse, but didn't), and retconning the origins of HYDRA. So, I would like more integration with the movieverse (it'd be fun for Nick Fury to show up again), I've enjoyed the show that Agents of SHIELD became.

[random11]

I'm kind of confused, because your last sentence seems to contradict your first paragraph.

I'll try to explain better:
The writers of the show seem to be restricted.
On one hand, they have to follow what happens in the movies (because that's what SHIELD basically was, a filler between Avengers movies), on the other hand they can't actually show the characters of the movie or be directly involved.

It would have been much better for writing if they just said "agents of SHIELD takes place in the time between the two movies" and continue from there regardless of which movie currently airs.
Instead, the restrictions pushed them into a corner so small, they had to escape earth twice in a row.

[Milo v3]

but you'll never see the movies reference the TV show.
I mean, they sort of did with Age of Ultron answering the question in season 2 of "What is the giant project that Coulson is working on?"

[Joran]

I mean, they sort of did with Age of Ultron answering the question in season 2 of "What is the giant project that Coulson is working on?"

That was probably because the director of Age of Ultron is the brother of the showrunners of Agents of SHIELD (Joss and Jed Whedon/Maurissa Tancharoen).

After that, they never addressed Inhumans and the role of SHIELD in the movies has been taken over by the Avengers and Stark/Damage Control.

[Reddish Mage]

They have been following the events of the movies. Season 3 they brought up the Sokovia accords as well. The Darkholds was probably their attempt to inject magic around the time of Dr. Strange. However, they are no longer even trying to do movie tie-ins and the movies never acknowledged that the TV shows exist. To the best of my knowledge not even with a hidden easter egg.

[Milo v3]

That was probably because the director of Age of Ultron is the brother of the showrunners of Agents of SHIELD (Joss and Jed Whedon/Maurissa Tancharoen).
I agree.


However, they are no longer even trying to do movie tie-ins and the movies never acknowledged that the TV shows exist. To the best of my knowledge not even with a hidden easter egg.
The Age of Ultron Helicarrier is from Agents of Shield. That's the only time movies get something from Agents of Shield instead of the other-way around (I mean, the Avengers get the location of Loki's sceptre from Coulson's shield but that isn't actually mentioned anywhere in the movie so it doesn't count).

[Reddish Mage]

I agree.


The Age of Ultron Helicarrier is from Agents of Shield. That's the only time movies get something from Agents of Shield instead of the other-way around (I mean, the Avengers get the location of Loki's sceptre from Coulson's shield but that isn't actually mentioned anywhere in the movie so it doesn't count).

What you mean is Agents of Shield takes credit for providing a Helicarrier that the movie suggests was in Nick Fury’s back pocket the whole time, and where not a single person or location from the TV series is referenced. Also the Helicarrier isn’t revealed until after the movie came out (I saw it in the movies first).

While looking at the movies and TV as a single universe you can say “the Helicarrier was provided by Coulson and the Agents of Shield,” this one is an example of the sort of thing that can be done without the movies acknowledging the existence or relevance of the TV show.

Post Age-of-Ultron they have stopped even doing even that much with new movies in the TV show itself. They acknowledge the Sokovia Accords are now a thing a bit late to the party, and that’s about the last time Agents of Shield acknowledge that the movies are a thing (unless Thor 2 was after, Sif shows up in what’s basically a one off and acknowledges Odin’s been acting funny).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Thor 2 was during season one. The tie in was the episode with the Berserker Staff. Sif came by later to deal with Lorelei, and then again in season two. Then Jaimie Alexander signed on to Blindspot and NBC put a conditional clause on releasing her from the non-compete for cameos at (allegedly) the high six-figures.

Anyway, the movie references in AoS are Extremis from IM3 (major plot element), clean up in London after Thor 2, the utter fracking meltdown of the series setting in CA2, some hints about a secret project Coulson and the Koenigs are involved in (this is an easter egg for AoU, so only tangential), the Sokovia Accords from CA3 and a Pym particle reference when trying to get Simmons back from Hive World (so Ant-Man).

edit: Really, if Clark Gregg wasn't in the series, you'd be hard pressed to say there's any real tie to the movies.

[Androgeus]

While it’s not a movie reference, wasn’t Mace assalted with a Judas Bullet from Luke Cage?

[Milo v3]

While it’s not a movie reference, wasn’t Mace assalted with a Judas Bullet from Luke Cage?
He was, in addition Carl Creel was the boxer that Matt Murdock's dad fought in the match where he was supposed to take a dive. So there are two tie ins to the netflix series.

[MikelaC1]

I love her mostly because she has a bad-ass theme song and she played Julie Mao in the Expanse. I love how detestable she is.

I cant stand the fact that she survives...again. She brings nothing to this show. Shes a terrible actress who does nothing but stand there and look menacing...she isnt even a good fighter or have interesting powers, she just releases those stupid balls to knock out opponents. Shes so bad, she almost makes you long for the return of Ward. Almost.

[random11]

- Didn't the previous episode end with the blue guy minus his throat?
How did that turn into a small booboo on his cheek?

- The part that Fitz pulls that controller from Jemma's ear?
Let's just say I found the nose picking scene in the old Total Recall movie more believable...

[Joran]

- Didn't the previous episode end with the blue guy minus his throat?
How did that turn into a small booboo on his cheek?

- The part that Fitz pulls that controller from Jemma's ear?
Let's just say I found the nose picking scene in the old Total Recall movie more believable...

I just re-watched the scene from two episodes ago: Simmons misses the guy's neck and got him on the cheek. I also thought on initial viewing that she got his neck.

Also, yeah, the controller scene seemed kind of silly.


I cant stand the fact that she survives...again. She brings nothing to this show. Shes a terrible actress who does nothing but stand there and look menacing...she isnt even a good fighter or have interesting powers, she just releases those stupid balls to knock out opponents. Shes so bad, she almost makes you long for the return of Ward. Almost.

Isn't standing there and looking menacing basically her entire role?

Also, I forgot how tough the Kree were portrayed the last couple times they were around, but they seem like chumps on this station.

[Douglas]

Also, I forgot how tough the Kree were portrayed the last couple times they were around, but they seem like chumps on this station.
Most of them are mooks. The fact that they give main characters any trouble at all is pretty impressive.

Current evidence suggests that not only did Quake actually destroy the Earth, but the version of Quake who did it had gone through the round trip to the future that we're currently watching. This raises the rather important question of "why did she do it?" If she'd been to the future she would have known in advance exactly how catastrophically much damage she was about to do, but she did it anyway. She's not insane, she would not have done it without a reason. And she's not evil, she would not have wanted to kill nearly all of humanity. So what was her reason?

[Giggling Ghast]

Well, I’m not sure about that. I think she was involved in the destruction of the Earth, but she wasn’t actually the person who shook it apart.

See, the presence of all this gravitonium and the gravity storms makes me wonder if AoS is gearing up to revisit a plot thread from Season 1, namely ...

... the return of Graviton.

If you’re a Marvel fan, you may be familiar with that name. Graviton (ie. Franklin Hall) is an Avengers villain who can control gravity. Fairly powerful, in that he was depicted in the Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes cartoon as needing the whole team to take him down.

In AoS, Franklin Hall was the creator of gravitonium. Coulson caused him to be sucked up by his own creation and he seemingly died, but an end-of-episode teaser suggests he actually survived.

So what if he came back, intending to seek bloody vengeance on Coulson? What if Daisy actually destroys the world by trying to stop him?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Well, I’m not sure about that. I think she was involved in the destruction of the Earth, but she wasn’t actually the person who shook it apart.

See, the presence of all this gravitonium and the gravity storms makes me wonder if AoS is gearing up to revisit a plot thread from Season 1, namely ...

... the return of Graviton.

If you’re a Marvel fan, you may be familiar with that name. Graviton (ie. Franklin Hall) is an Avengers villain who can control gravity. Fairly powerful, in that he was depicted in the Avengers: Earth’s Mightiest Heroes cartoon as needing the whole team to take him down.

In AoS, Franklin Hall was the creator of gravitonium. Coulson caused him to be sucked up by his own creation back in Season 1 and seemingly died, but an end-of-episode teaser suggests he actually survived.

So what if he came back, intending to seek bloody vengeance on Coulson? What if Daisy actually destroys the world by trying to stop him?

Agreed.

I've been hoping for Graviton to show up since we saw gravitonium again. I'm thinking the whole "Destroyer of Worlds" thing is a big misunderstanding and/or misdirection, because aside from the fact that Daisy isn't the type to want to destroy the world and has constantly said she doesn't believe she'd do it, everything we see so far is circumstantial evidence.

We saw a quick video of Daisy walking around before the big quake, and everyone just assumed that meant she was headed off to destroy the earth. Then Fitzsimmons discovered the gravitonium, Fitz said something like "Wait, it might not have been Daisy after all" and something about there being a lot of energy packed into (I'd have to see the episode again to remember the exact wording), and then they were cut off before they could tell Coulson about it and it got dropped.

So I'm going to assume it was either Graviton or some gravitonium-related Kree shenanigans instead of Daisy until we have more concrete evidence it was her.

[Giggling Ghast]

FitzSimmons said the gravitonium is apparently what’s keeping the Earth fragment from losing its atmosphere. However, they wondered if it wasn’t them who accidentally destroyed the Earth by messing around with gravitonium in the first place.

[Red Fel]

It actually sounded to me like it was this closed-time-loop thing, plus the Gravitonium.

Basically, it sounds like alternate/past Fitz created this Gravitonium-powered Zephyr capable of space flight, but eventually they realized that the instability of Gravitonium was causing the gravity storms, etc. Fitz's rambling made it sound like, assuming they get back to the present, they've created a predestination paradox, where he will design a gravity engine based on the system he saw, because he did design one, and that said system may be what tears the planet apart.

That might be what they're setting up for the second half of the season. (Because, please, don't let them linger in this dystopian future for the whole season.) They get back, and now have to stop the Gravitonium-fueled chain reaction they've triggered from destroying the planet.

Which makes the season even more obnoxious than it already was. I mean, the big thing about time travel is that it basically eliminates any tension - no matter what goes wrong in the future, they can just return to the past and prevent it. But if the whole reason they traveled to the future was to save a people whose planet was destroyed by Gravitonium, and then they return to the past to prevent themselves from destroying the world with Gravitonium which was only the case because they went to the future, then actually the Bad Future would have been prevented by not having them travel to the future in the first place.

Ugh. Let's just cut to the FitzSimmons wedding at the end of this series, you guys.

[Thrudd]

It actually sounded to me like it was this closed-time-loop thing, plus the Gravitonium.

Basically, it sounds like alternate/past Fitz created this Gravitonium-powered Zephyr capable of space flight, but eventually they realized that the instability of Gravitonium was causing the gravity storms, etc. Fitz's rambling made it sound like, assuming they get back to the present, they've created a predestination paradox, where he will design a gravity engine based on the system he saw, because he did design one, and that said system may be what tears the planet apart.

That might be what they're setting up for the second half of the season. (Because, please, don't let them linger in this dystopian future for the whole season.) They get back, and now have to stop the Gravitonium-fueled chain reaction they've triggered from destroying the planet.

Which makes the season even more obnoxious than it already was. I mean, the big thing about time travel is that it basically eliminates any tension - no matter what goes wrong in the future, they can just return to the past and prevent it. But if the whole reason they traveled to the future was to save a people whose planet was destroyed by Gravitonium, and then they return to the past to prevent themselves from destroying the world with Gravitonium which was only the case because they went to the future, then actually the Bad Future would have been prevented by not having them travel to the future in the first place.

Ugh. Let's just cut to the FitzSimmons wedding at the end of this series, you guys.

My thought was that the result of all this would be a parallel universe - either created or revealed. It seems like AoS has been taking place in an alternate universe from the theatrical MCU at least from the time that terrigen got released, probably before that. Maybe they will reveal that this is literally the case.
Theory: In the Avengers Universe, Coulson never got revived, Kree had not been to earth or at least never left behind Inhumans. Everything else is the same (at least the big events up to/including Ultron and Accords). Maybe the only dividing event was the terrigen release. Regardless, the result of all this time traveling is going to leave them in the film version of MCU (where Tony invented LMDs instead of the guy in the tv show). If this is the last season of the show as some are predicting, some of the characters (at least Coulson) will reappear in films, and the TV show fans will know why/how he got there and why the Avengers weren't aware of Inhumans, Legion, inter-planetary/dimensional/time traveling monoliths, never mentioned the existence of SHIELD, etc.

Or, based on the possible revelation that gravitonium/graviton was responsible for the earth's destruction, it will be decided that the only way to save the earth and stop the loop is to go back farther in time - to before graviton was created. They effectively erase all the events of the show (and basically create an alternate universe), all the way back to season 1. They go forward living in the MCU as it is seen in the movies, without Inhumans or any of the other earth-threatening stuff from the show that the Avengers totally should have been dealing with. If the show ends, Coulson can reappear in films as a cameo or small part as he previously did.

[Zalabim]

I think it's clear that SHIELD was responding to some outside threat, a threat that will be there regardless of time travel. Anyhow, I'm more interested in Kasius's comment on holding his inhuman research hostage, where he said trading inhumans for humans happened before. I have a feeling he's talking about something of a greater scale than the Inhumans that had been produced at the Lighthouse, which may mean we'll see The Inhumans make an appearance. Speaking of the Lighthouse, it's really ancient, no one knows who built it, and it has gravitonium tech that Fitz designs/designed. Does he add that later, or does that mean that SHIELD builds the Lighthouse in the past, or maybe he gets the design from the Lighthouse, which always had it? Maybe they get Enoch sent back to build it, since it's part of prophecy.

[Red Fel]

I think it's clear that SHIELD was responding to some outside threat, a threat that will be there regardless of time travel. Anyhow, I'm more interested in Kasius's comment on holding his inhuman research hostage, where he said trading inhumans for humans happened before. I have a feeling he's talking about something of a greater scale than the Inhumans that had been produced at the Lighthouse, which may mean we'll see The Inhumans make an appearance. Speaking of the Lighthouse, it's really ancient, no one knows who built it, and it has gravitonium tech that Fitz designs/designed. Does he add that later, or does that mean that SHIELD builds the Lighthouse in the past, or maybe he gets the design from the Lighthouse, which always had it? Maybe they get Enoch sent back to build it, since it's part of prophecy.

I didn't think it was "ancient." Unless I misheard, the flashback episode revealed that it was built by SHIELD as a safehouse or something. (Did I mishear?) I'm guessing the Gravitonium stabilizers came later, likely to offset the fact that the planet had exploded.

[Zalabim]

I didn't think it was "ancient." Unless I misheard, the flashback episode revealed that it was built by SHIELD as a safehouse or something. (Did I mishear?) I'm guessing the Gravitonium stabilizers came later, likely to offset the fact that the planet had exploded.

I could rewatch Rewind again, but the impression I got was that Enoch did not know who built the Lighthouse, and had been on Earth for 30,000 years. I suppose that doesn't mean it was necessarily built before he got there, just built in secret. SHIELD has a lot of secret bases, after all.

[Douglas]

New episode.
So, Quake destroyed the Earth trying to stop Kasius's father from conquering it? I still don't see her intentionally choosing planet destruction over Kree enslavement, but lots of things could plausibly make an escalating superpowered fight do it by accident in a series like this. How saving Coulson could ruin everything is a big mystery, though.

They're going pretty deep with the fixed time loop idea, making it very clear that everything we've seen so far still fits the bad timeline, but I'd still be surprised if they don't break it eventually. For maximum climactic drama, the break will probably be at the last possible moment.

"Here's your blueprint." Right. I wouldn't put it past the writers to have Flint literally rebuild the entire planet, but it strains plausibility for him to be that powerful.

[Giggling Ghast]

Boy, this episode really pushed the PG-13 rating, didn’t it? Heads were getting cut off, throats were getting slashed, dudes were getting impaled with axes.

I had a strong suspicion all along that Coulson was dying as a result of the bargain he made with the Ghost Rider. This episode confirmed my theory.

We now know a few things:

1) This is definitively a time loop. The Agents have been through all this before, and we know it causes most of the team to die.

2) We know that Cassius’ father was somehow involved in the destruction of Earth. That fits in with what Voss said in a previous episode; that a city was evacuated and there was a “light from the sky.”

3) We also know it’s the team’s decision to save Coulson that destroys the world.

Given that we know Kree blood can bring back the dead and repair grievous injuries, maybe the team tries to barter with the Kree for a cure? Or they try to take it from them? And that in turn leads to the destruction of Earth.

Despite the little teaser at the end, I do believe the future can change if Agents operates on a Dragon Ball Z model of time travel; ie. changing past events creates an alternate timeline.

[Palanan]

So, when's the next episode?

Clearly not tonight, which is all Olympic-y. Is the show coming back in two weeks, or a month, or when?

[The New Bruceski]

So, when's the next episode?

Clearly not tonight, which is all Olympic-y. Is the show coming back in two weeks, or a month, or when?

March 2nd, out for a month.

[Joran]

March 2nd, out for a month.

Ah good to know, thanks. I guess I'll catch up on the Defenders tonight.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by The New Bruceski
March 2nd, out for a month.

Okay, thanks. I guess falling back through time takes a while.

:smalltongue:

[Dilvish]

Okay, thanks. I guess falling back through time takes a while.

:smalltongue:

:smallsigh: :smallbiggrin:

I can spend this time trying to catch up on other shows.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Just a reminder the show resumes next week.

[Palanan]

A further reminder that we are, in fact, finally getting back to this season as of 9:00 pm tonight, EST.

[Palanan]

Great episode, until the big reveal.


The general’s daughter is the super-assassin killer woman? Seriously?!

If they’d pulled this in the first season I would’ve quit the show. As it is, they just threw me off my S.H.I.E.L.D. groove. Which was going very nicely, since the episode was otherwise humming right along. Robots, aliens, time-travelers, supporting cast from Avatar, all in one episode. Until the whole general’s-daughter thing it was great.

Not only does Piper not do science, she also doesn’t do convincing reunions. It wasn’t hard to peg her as a plant from the moment she appeared.

Also, for someone trained by May, she sure was easy to dupe. I thought agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. were supposed to be, you know, cunning and spy-like.

Slicey razor ring with the returning property. How would you stat that out?

Also, in line with comments a little earlier in the thread, this is definitely the goriest of all five seasons. I wasn’t expecting that much severed limb.

Hilarious scene in the orange van, with everyone recounting their worst experiences as an agent. And May wins with the dancing, which was way back in first season, I think.

[Palanan]

Wow.

Did everyone just...not watch it? Usually Zodi, Rogar, Red Fel and half a dozen others would have weighed in by now.

Did the month-long hiatus drop it off everyone's radar? Or have the time loops, gravity hijinks and badly acted blue aliens driven everyone away?

[Red Fel]

Wow.

Did everyone just...not watch it? Usually Zodi, Rogar, Red Fel and half a dozen others would have weighed in by now.

Did the month-long hiatus drop it off everyone's radar? Or have the time loops, gravity hijinks and badly acted blue aliens driven everyone away?

Actually, I was traveling. I'm going to have to catch up with the episode on Hulu.

But honestly? A bit of everything you've said. The completely meaningless time loop, overly dramatic "totally Rome but not" aliens, and generally needless bleakness, really made me want the season (and possibly series) to end already, and the month-long hiatus definitely didn't help.

But I'mma catch up. Eventually.

[Rogar Demonblud]

I didn't want to spoil any of the twists ahead of time. For instance, the probable MCU version of Finesse.

[LaZodiac]

Wow.

Did everyone just...not watch it? Usually Zodi, Rogar, Red Fel and half a dozen others would have weighed in by now.

Did the month-long hiatus drop it off everyone's radar? Or have the time loops, gravity hijinks and badly acted blue aliens driven everyone away?

I have been indisposed from watching due to work all year, for everything. I appreciate that you've noticed. I have caught up, and I'm liking what I've seen (though I was only able to watch from the episode Old Robin dies onward). I'm shocked Yoyo lost her arms, but also would like to note that in the future flashback she HAS her arms, so the future IS changing! Not...the way we want it too though.

Also, while I don't know if it HAS been confirmed or not, this feels like the Last Season. That conversation in the truck, talking about all their past adventures, that's a very Last Season thing to do.

[Douglas]

The Future Yoyo who was Kasius' prisoner had lost her arms, so this is not an indication of anything changing. If anything, it's an indication that they are still following the path to the bad future, and Yoyo comments to that effect soon after it happens.

The flashback where she has her arms and declares she'll fight the Kree could be explained by good cybernetics. They made a cybernetic arm for Coulson, there's no reason they couldn't do the same for Yoyo. Twice, since she needs two of them.

[LaZodiac]

The Future Yoyo who was Kasius' prisoner had lost her arms, so this is not an indication of anything changing. If anything, it's an indication that they are still following the path to the bad future, and Yoyo comments to that effect soon after it happens.

The flashback where she has her arms and declares she'll fight the Kree could be explained by good cybernetics. They made a cybernetic arm for Coulson, there's no reason they couldn't do the same for Yoyo. Twice, since she needs two of them.

This is true, and something I thought of, but I don't think they'll go that route. By which I mean, I don't think they'll fake us out by saying "oh in that future flashback she had two robot arms". I definitely think she'll get robot arms later, just not immediately and not to set up the futurepast flashback thing.

[Red Fel]

Okay, I finally got to it.

Short version? It's an improvement. I like that it's no longer in a bleak dystopian future. I like that they're getting back into the old tropes - the quips, the espionage, the disguises and trickery. It's a return to form, and I appreciate that. More in the spoiler box.

I'm still on the fence about Noah. I liked Enoch well enough; he grew on me. His particular way of emoting was pleasing to my sensibilities. Noah is not Enoch; seeing it on a second character feels more forced. That said, Noah has gotten his fair share of lines (I liked his comment about Enoch being "reckless," and his comment that he believed Daisy breaking Deke out was wrong, those amused me), so I'm going to give him a fair shake.

Bold choice by Der Maus to put one of their starlets into a murderous bad girl role. How long did they go before they let Zac Efron be anything but charming? We'll see how it plays out, but I like the obsessed psychopath (possible yandere?) angle they've got with her.

Creel! I feel like I knew he was coming back. Must have read it somewhere. Don't they bring him back every other season or so? I feel like that's a deliberate choice on the writers' part - "See? We're bringing Creel back! We're going back to the stuff you liked! Please don't hate us!" It feels like a deliberate fan-grab. I'll allow it, if only because I want the closure.

Speaking of closure, there was a comment by General Hardass (and why are all the generals on this show obstructing bureaucrats, anyway?), when she said something to the effect of "bringing this whole chapter to a close." My first instinct was to blurt out, "Yes, please!" There were other people watching in the room. It didn't stop me.

That's not a good sign for the series. I've been watching it since the beginning. I've been through the good episodes, the bad ones, the worse ones, the slightly less bad ones, the ones that almost looked good but actually weren't. I've been reasonably loyal. And my first instinct was to end it already. Just end it. Write a solid season end that could double as a series end, and let it die with dignity.

I've been a fan of Coulson. I've admired May. Fitz and Simmons have been consistently adorable (except for Simmons' brief bout of fantastic racism). Mack is all of us. But this really has gone on long enough. And the fact that I felt that way, even in an episode that managed to turn around the depressing doldrums of the previous arc, is disappointing.

[LaZodiac]

For me it's less disappointing and more...appropriate, I think? I want the show to end with dignity, and seeing as how it's very clear that the MCU is no longer connected to the TV shows because the TV shows are run by an asshat, the show has basically run it's purpose. Tie in show that bounces off the movies, to just genuinaly good show, to now a show that seems like it might be just about to hit the part where it's been on for too long.

So yeah, I kinda hope this is the final season, so it goes out on a high note.

[Rogar Demonblud]

For the record, Yo-Yo has cybernetic arms in the comics. So this could be Editorial getting involved again.

[Joran]

Okay, I finally got to it.

Short version? It's an improvement. I like that it's no longer in a bleak dystopian future. I like that they're getting back into the old tropes - the quips, the espionage, the disguises and trickery. It's a return to form, and I appreciate that. More in the spoiler box.

I'm still on the fence about Noah. I liked Enoch well enough; he grew on me. His particular way of emoting was pleasing to my sensibilities. Noah is not Enoch; seeing it on a second character feels more forced. That said, Noah has gotten his fair share of lines (I liked his comment about Enoch being "reckless," and his comment that he believed Daisy breaking Deke out was wrong, those amused me), so I'm going to give him a fair shake.

Bold choice by Der Maus to put one of their starlets into a murderous bad girl role. How long did they go before they let Zac Efron be anything but charming? We'll see how it plays out, but I like the obsessed psychopath (possible yandere?) angle they've got with her.

Creel! I feel like I knew he was coming back. Must have read it somewhere. Don't they bring him back every other season or so? I feel like that's a deliberate choice on the writers' part - "See? We're bringing Creel back! We're going back to the stuff you liked! Please don't hate us!" It feels like a deliberate fan-grab. I'll allow it, if only because I want the closure.

Speaking of closure, there was a comment by General Hardass (and why are all the generals on this show obstructing bureaucrats, anyway?), when she said something to the effect of "bringing this whole chapter to a close." My first instinct was to blurt out, "Yes, please!" There were other people watching in the room. It didn't stop me.

That's not a good sign for the series. I've been watching it since the beginning. I've been through the good episodes, the bad ones, the worse ones, the slightly less bad ones, the ones that almost looked good but actually weren't. I've been reasonably loyal. And my first instinct was to end it already. Just end it. Write a solid season end that could double as a series end, and let it die with dignity.

I've been a fan of Coulson. I've admired May. Fitz and Simmons have been consistently adorable (except for Simmons' brief bout of fantastic racism). Mack is all of us. But this really has gone on long enough. And the fact that I felt that way, even in an episode that managed to turn around the depressing doldrums of the previous arc, is disappointing.


I have "bad guy turned good guy" bet on her; you know basically her character in Descendents.

I liked the reveal on her, because it was definitely creepy and you get a good insight into the General. It does feel a little weird that we'll have two femme fatales with ranged weapons back to back as the dragon of the series; Sinara was just here!

So, where does she get her power from? Enhancements? Inhuman? Radioactive animal bite?


And yes, I got a definitive: "Hey this is probably the last season, but we got our 100 episodes in for syndication and we're going to wrap it up" vibe.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by LaZodiac
I appreciate that you've noticed.

In the past you’ve usually been the first one to comment on each new episode, so I indeed noticed your absence. :smallsmile:


Originally Posted by LaZodiac
Also, while I don't know if it HAS been confirmed or not, this feels like the Last Season.

I thought I’d seen somewhere that it was confirmed.

And fact is, I’m okay with that. I’ve been enjoying this season—agents in space is a hoot—but the fourth season was blah and third season wasn’t that great either. At this point, I’m ready for everyone to reminisce a little more, kick some blue alien tail, and then ride off into the sunset, or maybe a nice supernova.

Also, I’m wondering if they’re going to wrap this up in time for Infinity War.

The headlines keep promising that we’ll see “every character in the MCU” in the next movie, and since Coulson is by definition grounded in the MCU, it would make sense if they brought him back for a swan song.


Originally Posted by Red Fel
That's not a good sign for the series. I've been watching it since the beginning…. And my first instinct was to end it already.

Agreed. It’s definitely time.


Originally Posted by Red Fel
Bold choice by Der Maus to put one of their starlets into a murderous bad girl role. How long did they go before they let Zac Efron be anything but charming? We'll see how it plays out, but I like the obsessed psychopath (possible yandere?) angle they've got with her.

I…have no idea what any of this means.

[JadedDM]

I haven't seen it anywhere confirmed this is the last season. It's just a lot of people in this thread are very certain of it anyway.

[LaZodiac]

I…have no idea what any of this means.

The actress playing Mrs Take Your Arms Off is a semi famous Disney child star that Disney is letting just be a true out and out psychotic evil character.

[The New Bruceski]

I haven't seen it anywhere confirmed this is the last season. It's just a lot of people in this thread are very certain of it anyway.

It is not definite either way on last season or not, but they've said they're writing the season finale as a series finale just in case.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And yes, I got a definitive: "Hey this is probably the last season, but we got our 100 episodes in for syndication and we're going to wrap it up" vibe.

AoS has been syndicated for a couple years now. UTV, the CW and one other channel I'm forgetting. It's why they didn't bother with season box sets in the U.S. after s2--they figured they make more with early syndication.

[Carl]

Okay, I finally got to it.

Short version? It's an improvement. I like that it's no longer in a bleak dystopian future. I like that they're getting back into the old tropes - the quips, the espionage, the disguises and trickery. It's a return to form, and I appreciate that. More in the spoiler box.

I'm still on the fence about Noah. I liked Enoch well enough; he grew on me. His particular way of emoting was pleasing to my sensibilities. Noah is not Enoch; seeing it on a second character feels more forced. That said, Noah has gotten his fair share of lines (I liked his comment about Enoch being "reckless," and his comment that he believed Daisy breaking Deke out was wrong, those amused me), so I'm going to give him a fair shake.

Bold choice by Der Maus to put one of their starlets into a murderous bad girl role. How long did they go before they let Zac Efron be anything but charming? We'll see how it plays out, but I like the obsessed psychopath (possible yandere?) angle they've got with her.

Creel! I feel like I knew he was coming back. Must have read it somewhere. Don't they bring him back every other season or so? I feel like that's a deliberate choice on the writers' part - "See? We're bringing Creel back! We're going back to the stuff you liked! Please don't hate us!" It feels like a deliberate fan-grab. I'll allow it, if only because I want the closure.

Speaking of closure, there was a comment by General Hardass (and why are all the generals on this show obstructing bureaucrats, anyway?), when she said something to the effect of "bringing this whole chapter to a close." My first instinct was to blurt out, "Yes, please!" There were other people watching in the room. It didn't stop me.

That's not a good sign for the series. I've been watching it since the beginning. I've been through the good episodes, the bad ones, the worse ones, the slightly less bad ones, the ones that almost looked good but actually weren't. I've been reasonably loyal. And my first instinct was to end it already. Just end it. Write a solid season end that could double as a series end, and let it die with dignity.

I've been a fan of Coulson. I've admired May. Fitz and Simmons have been consistently adorable (except for Simmons' brief bout of fantastic racism). Mack is all of us. But this really has gone on long enough. And the fact that I felt that way, even in an episode that managed to turn around the depressing doldrums of the previous arc, is disappointing.

Been lurking for the last few seasons, only catching up with ti way after they air first time but not worrying about spoilers and IMO AoS problem is they keep re-tooling. The post CW retool made sense, and the first half of season 2 made sense as it was just secret shield doing secret shield things. But then we got Gonzales, HIVE, Hydra 3.0, SHIELD coming out into the open, the framework, and so on. You take a look at a lot of successful shows over the last 30 years, even ones with myth arcs, (like the trope codifier Babylon 5), they may have their arc villains and their big events, but the basic backdrop of "life on a space station" or "N city criminal investigations department", or whatever else doesn't change. Everything's happening against that common backdrop and as a result get all the rough edges filed off. But AoS is so busy re0-inventing the backdrop every half a season they've never got the serial numbers filed off. Old rough edges are replaced with new ones on a regular basis.

[Dilvish]

:smallsmile::smallbiggrin::smallsmile: for the ending of tonight's episode.

[Palanan]

Oh gawd. The “fear dimension.”

The shark has officially been jumped.



Daisy’s big screaming fit at Coulson, and her general emotionalness, just feels overdone.

And what’s with everyone coming down on Coulson for not telling them about a personal medical condition? It would be a distraction to no purpose, and would certainly degrade team morale. Coulson made the right call, which was for the benefit of the team and their missions, but it ended up being milked for more drama.

All of it screams “filler episode.” None of this was remotely necessary.

All through the tedious conversation with not-Deathlok about how the last five seasons were just in Coulson’s head, I was waiting for Coulson to pull that .50 cal and nail the thing.

For one awful moment I thought they might actually do it—retcon the entire series into a dream—until they cut back to Daisy in the situation room. But then more drama, more pointless delay and self-doubt from Coulson, all to wring a little more of…what, I’m not sure, before Random Technobabble Device #938 plugs Interdimensional Rift #274.

Totally, completely pointless. Coulson should’ve blasted the fear-thing as soon as it said it wasn’t real. What more do you need?


Urf.

Just urf. Nothing like saccharine forced emotion to cap off an episode of forced drama.

And Fitz and Jemma being the grandparents of what’s-his-name…double urf. Trite and contrived.

If this is the best they can do, I’m officially rooting for cancellation.

[Red Fel]

Yup, this was a step down. More in the box.

Okay, let's start with all of the emotional melodrama. The lines felt so cliched it was like I was watching Once Upon a Time. You're too valuable to sacrifice! But I have to! SHIELD has to live on! We can't be there for her forever! On and on and on... Terrible soap opera.

Deke is the new Lincoln? Deke is the new Lincoln. And any enjoyment I may have of this character is forever tarnished by the fact that Daisy just has to have a boy-toy in every season. Well, he'll have to die, especially because - no big surprise - he is related to the core cast because everyone important is. Honestly, I saw it coming and it still annoyed me.

Dethlok is back! And any joy I had was immediately tarnished by the fact that it was just super convenient that he showed up, to the point that Fitz actually pointed that out for us, and it was basically just another call-back by the writers. "See? Last week Creel, this week Dethlok! Want some Hive, too? Sure thing!" Ugh.

Hey, remember Little Miss Sociopath 2018? She's not in this episode, because plot!

Let's talk about Detective Sherlock Fitz over here. "Apparently a dimension is bleeding over into ours," he says, after seeing footage of an underground forest. Okay, maybe. "Apparently it's fueled by our fears," he says, after seeing a Kree. What the actual crap? He's just a plot device, now. Ugh.

And let's talk about the sheer, magnified stupidity of Coulson seeing a dead man and just letting him talk. Seriously, "Whatever you see, shoot first," but no, let him talk. All a majestic quantity of stupid to justify padding the episode, letting Dethlok cameo, and raising Coulson's question about his sanity, which is immediately set aside because...

... wedding! Okay, this was admittedly long-anticipated, but it's almost frustrating that it came this way. Particularly with the - gasp! - totally unexpected reveal about Deke. Ugh. I wanted this to happen, but I wanted it to be sincere, not forced and rushed. Way to take the one thing I really wanted to see in this and just chuck it.

Oh, and in case nobody noticed, everyone was there, except Yoyo, who was apparently missing the wedding, sitting by herself in a bed, where earlier that day Nightmare Robo-Simmons had tried to murder her. All alone. Let's not dwell on that, shall we?
Overall, a hideous bag of cliches, contrivances, and rushed plot devices. Loathing.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Let me explain.

No, there is too much.

Let me sum up.

I hate anniversary episodes.

[BWR]

I actually would have liked if the entirety of AoS really was Coulson's dying delusions. And I hate that cop out ending.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Red Fel
Overall, a hideous bag of cliches, contrivances, and rushed plot devices. Loathing.

Agreed on all points. You detailed all the ridiculous that I didn’t have time or patience to dwell on.

Just one more point to mention: after all the drama, all the outbursts, all the buildup, and all of what seemed like goodbyes to Coulson—and after he stupidly sits there and listens to the fear-phantom instead of just shooting it already—after all of that, Coulson walks out just fine. And officiates at a wedding.

Gah. Pull the plug. I’m ready for this show to be done.

[Hopeless]

So what are the odds Daisy's fan is Ruby Ward?

[Joran]

The fear dimension thing felt like a contrivance, but I'm a sucker for getting the gang back together. So seeing Deathlok and the rest of the cavalry come in after they basically implied that nobody from SHIELD is left made me emotional. Cause, the only sane people should have left SHIELD years ago.

Wedding, not so much, but more of a "wow, they finally get their happy ending" relief. I remember early on us trying to guess which of the two was going to get brutally murdered because Whedons can't let happy couples lie.

Also, same feeling I had before, the show kind of feels ready to end. They've done basically all they can with the format, so I'm ready. I'll miss the characters and wish they were more integrated into the larger MCU, but I'm ready.


Edit: This was the 100th episode and feels like it was written with a nod toward that and the past of the show.

[Giggling Ghast]

FYI, the Dimension of Dreams is an actual thing in Marvel comics. It's ruled by a Doctor Strange foe called Nightmare.

https://screenrant.com/agents-shield-dimension-dreams-explained/

[Rogar Demonblud]

The fear dimension thing felt like a contrivance, but I'm a sucker for getting the gang back together. So seeing Deathlok and the rest of the cavalry come in after they basically implied that nobody from SHIELD is left made me emotional. Cause, the only sane people should have left SHIELD years ago.

Wedding, not so much, but more of a "wow, they finally get their happy ending" relief. I remember early on us trying to guess which of the two was going to get brutally murdered because Whedons can't let happy couples lie.

Also, same feeling I had before, the show kind of feels ready to end. They've done basically all they can with the format, so I'm ready. I'll miss the characters and wish they were more integrated into the larger MCU, but I'm ready.


Edit: This was the 100th episode and feels like it was written with a nod toward that and the past of the show.

The show isn't done yet. There's plenty of time to Whedonize every couple in the show.

[JadedDM]

FYI, the Dimension of Dreams is an actual thing in Marvel comics. It's ruled by a Doctor Strange foe called Nightmare.

https://screenrant.com/agents-shield-dimension-dreams-explained/

Ah, thanks. I was just about to ask if the Fear Dimension thing was from the comics, because it sure sounds like a thing from the comics.

[SmallAnt]

The best season that was created.
What's the name of this warrior Kree, this chick? She is hot

[JadedDM]

Her name is Sinara and is played by Florence Faivre.

[SmallAnt]

Thanks a lot :-)

[Palanan]

So, new episode coming up tonight.

Just thinking about watching it feels like a chore.


So, I'm betting that Fitz is Whedonized before the end of the season, leaving Jemma to wander lost and inconsolable through the cosmos, until the long years of her life are utterly spent.

Double Whedonization would be too romantic, because "see you on the other side" simply offers too much hope. Eternal separation through some unknown yet convenient slurpy-zappy-stone would give just the right edge to it.
.

[Lvl45DM!]

I thought that todays was a MUCH better episode and in alot of ways a better homage to the previous seasons than last weeks.
We had Season 1 wacky sci-fi technobabble that didn't involve yknow, fear dimensions, a touch of S2 spy-craft, a character from S3, and of course Season 4 Robot enemies.

Mack can tank two robot fighters alone. He wasnt out-maneuvering them or anything, he just slammed them around like they were regular humans.

[random11]

The second Deke is revealed to be their child (or grandson, whatever), he starts acting like a child.
He was annoying before, but now it's on overdrive.

[BWR]

Eh, it's a pretty natural character development, I feel.
He came to what was basically his promised land and finds out it isn't exactly what he imagined it, is out of his comfort zone, restricted in his movement and considered pretty useless here. He's stressed and frustrated feeling mostly helpless, something he isn't used to.

He's still super annoying, but it's not out of character.

[Joran]

I thought that todays was a MUCH better episode and in alot of ways a better homage to the previous seasons than last weeks.
We had Season 1 wacky sci-fi technobabble that didn't involve yknow, fear dimensions, a touch of S2 spy-craft, a character from S3, and of course Season 4 Robot enemies.

Mack can tank two robot fighters alone. He wasnt out-maneuvering them or anything, he just slammed them around like they were regular humans.

Yup, definitely felt like a return to form for SHIELD. We're one Brett Dalton sighting away from the good ole days ;)

Also, do these robo-mooks predate LMDs? I don't think we've seen them have super-strength, just durability.

Any ideas about Totally Not-Hydra, but kind of Adjacent to Hydra?

[Rogar Demonblud]

Too many candidates in the Marvelverse to say for sure, but maybe Secret Empire.

[Joran]

Too many candidates in the Marvelverse to say for sure, but maybe Secret Empire.

heh, I remember when the Tahiti Project was first revealed and "blue skin" only narrowed it down to 5-6 different candidates.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Would've been twice that if they still had F4 and X-Men at that point.

[Dilvish]

I would not have guessed it. Mack, an arms dealer for the inhumans?!

[Calemyr]

I would not have guessed it. Mack, an arms dealer for the inhumans?!

... ... ... ...

I tip my hat to you.

[Palanan]

Oy vey.

Remind me why I’m watching this dreck?



Look! It’s Creel!! It’s Russian Guy!! It’s Evil Fitz!!

Plus the General!! The Kree!! Hydra!! We have ALL THE BAD GUYS!!!

If only I cared.


This was like an 80s show with the inevitable evil twin. Except it’s in Fitz’s mind, so he has an excuse to torture people. And agonize because it’s the right thing to do.

At this point the entire fear-rift-thingy just feels like an absurdly contrived excuse to drive a predictable wedge between Fitz and Jemma. And I just can’t care, because they’ve trivialized the characters and turned them into soppy caricatures of who they used to be.

Seriously, why is everyone going to pieces? Why are Fitz, Jemma, Daisy all acting like fragile nitwits? These people have survived everything from brain-eating aliens to entire planets of death and doom, so why are they all having hysterics instead of acting like trained and hardened agents?

So, the General is working for…the Confederacy? Which is also the Kree? Which is also Hydra?

I’d care, but…no, not really.
.