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View Full Version : 3.5 and Pathfinder, do/can swarms deal their damage twice/rd?



Starbuck_II
2017-05-02, 11:15 PM
By the rules on swarms, they don't deal their damage at end of their turn, but end of a move. They can make 2 moves a round since they aren't staggered like a zombie, so it seems to reason they can deal their damage twice per round?

While I doubt, anyone players this way, and I doubt that was the intent...
I can't find any reason they can't do this.

Here is 3.5 rules: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/swarm.htm
Bat swarm, for example, says, "The swarm deals 1d6 points of damage to any creature whose space it occupies at the end of its move". Again, not end of turn, which I believe everyone plays.

Pathfinder has same text for all their swarms. Which might be a copy paste error.

Allanimal
2017-05-03, 12:18 AM
The description for the swarm Subtype (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#swarmSubtype) is a bit more clear, and I'd say yes, with the caveat that most swarms aren't intelligent enough to take advantage of that. They find a target and stick to it, rather than moving on to another one (or away and back to the first one).

Psyren
2017-05-03, 08:38 AM
The 3.5 rules say "end of their move" (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#swarmSubtype) too so I'm not sure I get the question. PF didn't change anything in that regard, so run it in the latter how you would in the former.

Basically if you read "end of their move" as "move action" then yes, they can do this twice, but as Allanimal said they probably are incapable of any kind of complex tactics around this (especially to a single target.)

Starbuck_II
2017-05-03, 09:08 AM
Pathfinder just made a new familiar theme that can turn into a swarm. This is an intelligent one, thus, it could make tactical decisions.
Swarm Monger Druid has the power to turn his familiar to a swarm (he gets a familiar not an animal companion).

Fizban
2017-05-03, 09:43 AM
If you interpret movement as ending and then resuming in the middle of your turn. If you interpret moving for your entire round as a single continuous movement, then no.

Psyren
2017-05-03, 10:28 AM
Pathfinder just made a new familiar theme that can turn into a swarm. This is an intelligent one, thus, it could make tactical decisions.
Swarm Monger Druid has the power to turn his familiar to a swarm (he gets a familiar not an animal companion).

Well, familiars also follow your instructions so their own intelligence is largely a moot point in this case.

In any event though, my answer stands - it's not actually different from 3.5, so it comes down to whether your GM reads "end of move" as "end of move action" (in either edition.)

Kurald Galain
2017-05-03, 10:47 AM
If you interpret movement as ending and then resuming in the middle of your turn. If you interpret moving for your entire round as a single continuous movement, then no.

This is why you have a DM to pick the reasonable interpretation of the rules, not an interpretation that "makes zero sense but technically..."