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View Full Version : Optimization Circle Magic: What are the most practical uses?



Endarire
2017-05-03, 12:27 AM
Circle Magic (attached to the Red Wizard in the 3.5 DMG, Hathran in the Player's Guide to Faerun and Halruaan Elder in Shining South basically lets circle leaders (reaching level 5+ in the appropriate class) absorb a certain number of spell levels from minions/slaves/apprentices/simulacra/etc to increase the potency of their spells.

Doing Circle Magic requires an hour per ritual with enough of the right willing and able contributors. Boosting one's base caster level to 40 or/and increasing spell level to 20 are normally expensive ways to cast spells. Adding Empower or/and Maximize to your spells seems more likely useful on a daily basis, like summon monster or summon nature's ally or time stop or mirror image.

There are some tricks you can do with Circle Magic, like Heightening a spell to level 20 then using reserve feats like Fiery Burst to deal damage, or combining a level 20 spell with abilities that give extra spell slots like the feats Item Familiar and Extra Slot. With your level 20 slots, you could find ways to spontaneously convert these into other, higher level spells you know such as via Rary's arcane conversion (Complete Mage). You could also, especially with the feat Reserves of Strength, boost your CL to 40 all day and proceed from there to reach or beat caster level caps on spells.

As an adventuring PC, what spells are most worthy of the Circle Magic treatment? Remember, even boosting CL requires acquiring and spending Circle Magic Spell Levels.

Cleric
-Any suggestions for very spiffy spells to put here? Most spells could benefit at least in theory (blasts and heals and summons, depending on context), but what spells are worth investing heavily in?

Druid
[3] Venomfire: 1 hr/CL, uncapped +d6 acid damage/CL per hit. Be a Fleshraker with a Fleshraker companion. Pump this up all the way with Empower, Maximize, and CL40! Possibly also use with this other metamagic feats like Extend Spell or Energy Substitution.

Sor/Wiz
[4] Evard's Black Tentacles: CL40 means a very high grapple check.

[7] Simulacrum: There are cheaper ways to get this cast if you need it on the cheap, but if you truly need to make a sim of something with lots of hit dice, here you go!

Other
-We're taking suggestions here!

Some of the most powerful and spectacular spells worked across Faerūn are cast in the form of circle magic. Circle magic is a type of cooperative spellcasting that allows the spellcaster leading the circle to increase his caster level significantly and achieve results otherwise unavailable to the spellcasters composing the circle. The Red Wizards of Thay make frequent use of circle magic. Stories of other forms of circle magic abound in Faerūn.

Participation: The ability to participate in circle magic requires the possession of the Tattoo Focus feat. One spellcaster, usually the most powerful or experienced character present, stands at the center of the circle. This character is the circle leader. A Red Wizard cannot be a circle leader unless he is at least a 5th-level Red Wizard. A circle requires a minimum of two participants plus the circle leader. Up to five partiicpants can aid a circle leader in a standard circle; a Red Wizard of 10th level can lead a great circle containing up to nine other participants. All participants in a circle must stand within 10 feet of the circle leader, who stands in the center.

Circle Powers: The first use of circle magic is to empower the circle leader with the strength of all the participants. This requires 1 full hour of uninterrupted concentration on the part of all participants and the circle leader. Each participant casts any single prepared spell, which is consumed by the circle and has no effect other than expending the prepared spell. The spell levels expended by the circle participants are totaled as circle bonus levels. Each bonus level may be used to accomplish the following effects.

-Increase the circle leader's caster level by one for every circle bonus level expended (maximum caster level 40th). This benefit applies to level-dependent variables of a spell such as range or duration, and to level checks (dispel checks, checks to overcome spell resistance, and so on).

-Add Empower Spell, Maximize Spell, or Heighten Spell metamagic feats to spells currently prepared by the circle leader. Each circle bonus level counts as one additional spell level required by the application of a metamagic feat to a spell. The circle leader may add one of the three listed feats to a spell even if he does not know the feat or if the addition of the feat would raise the spell level past the circle leader's normal maximum spell level (maximum spell level 20th).

These effects last for 24 hours or until expended. Circle bonus levels may be divided up as the circle leader sees fit. For example, the Red Wizard Hauth Var leads a circle in which four participants each cast a 2nd-level spell, so that Hauth Var gains eight circle bonus levels. Hauth Var chooses to use three circle bonus levels to maximize his cone of cold spell, three to increase his caster level from 10th to 13th for all level-based variables in his spells, and two to provide a +2 bonus on any level checks he needs to make. The maximized spell is used up whenever he casts his cone of cold, and the other two effects remain for the next 24 hours. Many high-level Red Wizards lead circles on a daily basis to exact magical power from their apprentices.

ksbsnowowl
2017-05-03, 12:42 AM
Binding (Sor/Wiz 8, enchantment) : That Binding spell isn't getting removed by anything short of a Mordenkainen's Disjunction, or the desire of the original caster to dismiss it.

Basically, boosting the CL to 40 makes most spells undispellable (as it makes the DC to dispel it 51, and the largest bonus Greater Dispelling provides is +20, plus the d20 roll, which means maxing out at 40).

ZamielVanWeber
2017-05-03, 02:34 AM
Basically, boosting the CL to 40 makes most spells undispellable (as it makes the DC to dispel it 51, and the largest bonus Greater Dispelling provides is +20, plus the d20 roll, which means maxing out at 40).

This is not true, as there are a ton of ways of boosting that number above 20. It makes that hard to dispel casually but can only do so much against someone who really wants to dispel spells.

Doc_Maynot
2017-05-03, 04:20 AM
I'd be interested in the how, as the spell itself is the one with the hard "+CL to a max of +20 to the check" rule.

ZamielVanWeber
2017-05-03, 04:26 AM
I'd be interested in the how, as the spell itself is the one with the hard "+CL to a max of +20 to the check" rule.

Anything that adds to the dispelling check without increasing your caster level ex: the inquisition domain or dispelling chord.

Super lazily: a master specialist abjurer with access to the inquisition domain's granted power by feat with a CL of 20 has +29 to their dispel check. Dispelling chord can add +2 5/day to start pumping that up.

Also I would be remiss to point out that spells cast through circle magic are still vulnerable to disjunction, so have something for that contingency. Being able to stop anything but focused dispelling builds is super nice though.

Zanos
2017-05-03, 12:19 PM
You can use reserves of strength to uncap your dispel. Also chain dispel has a cap of +25.

In any case getting your base CL to 40 through circle magic is probably the best use of it, since that's not applied on a per spell basis.

Sagetim
2017-05-05, 12:56 AM
Well, since your spells don't reset each day or anything, but rather remain prepared until expended, you can pump up all of your spells over the course of a few days. Enter your adventure with a pile of Hieghtened, Maximized, Empowered spells and a few emergency escape clauses like Quickened, Stilled, Silent Wish, Teleport Without Error, Shadow Shield and so on. Persist things that normally have round per level durations and are usually not an option to do that with due to spell level limits.

I mean, if you really wanted to be a jerk, then having a Quickened, Stilled, Silent, Persistent Tenser's Transformation in your pocket could turn you from a wacky warm waving inflatable tube man to a conan-esque dominator of the battlefield with sword and rage. For extra fun, have some other persisted buffs contingent on the activation of that spell so that when you pop it you can start swinging your way through fights long after your spells have been exhausted and routes of escape sealed off.

Now, that's probably a terrible idea and there are likely better things you can do with contingencies and circle magic, but I'm willing to bet most people wouldn't be expecting a last ditch berzerker wizard surprise. Bonus points if your staff is a sword cane so that you can cut them in style with a highly enchanted sword.

OldTrees1
2017-05-05, 02:06 AM
Ever wanted a BBEG to have an undead army? Circle Magic


Ever wanted to play such a character as a PC? Circle Magic (and talking to your DM about reasonable limits on undead per scene)

Gusmo
2017-05-05, 02:28 AM
I've seen it argued that you can hold several pieces of ammunition, with an aligned enchantment such that you get negatives levels, and get a reduction in caster level. Then you boost your caster level with the negative levels. If you dropped your caster level to 1, and go to 40, your bonus from circle magic is now +39, instead of whatever it would have been before, and it might increase commensurately once you drop the items giving you negative levels. I'm shaky on how this was supposed to work exactly.

Crake
2017-05-05, 04:39 AM
I've seen it argued that you can hold several pieces of ammunition, with an aligned enchantment such that you get negatives levels, and get a reduction in caster level. Then you boost your caster level with the negative levels. If you dropped your caster level to 1, and go to 40, your bonus from circle magic is now +39, instead of whatever it would have been before, and it might increase commensurately once you drop the items giving you negative levels. I'm shaky on how this was supposed to work exactly.

The bonus from circle magic cannot increase your CL beyond 40, simple as that. If you drop your CL then raise it again, the limit still applies in the same way an ability penalty that cannot bring your abiltiy below 1 still has that limitation if the target takes a point of ability damage. However, once you've hit 40, you CAN then add on another bonus after the fact to raise it beyond 40.

Anthrowhale
2017-05-05, 06:03 AM
From the Cleric list, the classic choice is from the Holy Word family. At caster level 40, it's a no-save death spell for most opponents. Another exceptional one is Erupt from Serpent Kingdoms which does 400 fire damage in a 4000' radius with a Fortitude save for half (*).

(*) ... as long as you ignore the range-constrains area aspect of the rules as the writer of the spell did.

Endarire
2017-05-23, 07:44 PM
Circle Magic (Heighten spell to L20) + Extra Slot = level 19 spell slot all the time!

Add Sanctum Spell, Earth Sense/Earth Spell, and Heighten Spell for a level 21 slot all the time, pre-epic! Oh the metamagic tricks you could do with that!