Body Outside Body is the ultimate for Warlocks

[Nebuul]

I was just looking at Body Outside Body in Complete Arcane. It looks like this is the ultimate spell for a Warlock to cast on himself. If cast from a level 20 scroll, a warlock would get 4 duplicates who can all spam invocations for a full minute. The only restriction on the duplicates is that they cannot cast spells nor can they use spell trigger items, neither of which will matter.

Am I reading that right? Granted, they will not have your magic items, but that's still 4 level 20 warlocks spamming eldritch blasts of whatever type.

[ryu]

I was just looking at Body Outside Body in Complete Arcane. It looks like this is the ultimate spell for a Warlock to cast on himself. If cast from a level 20 scroll, a warlock would get 4 duplicates who can all spam invocations for a full minute. The only restriction on the duplicates is that they cannot cast spells nor can they use spell trigger items, neither of which will matter.

Am I reading that right? Granted, they will not have your magic items, but that's still 4 level 20 warlocks spamming eldritch blasts of whatever type.

While that's true you're thinking too small. You know what else it doesn't explicitly disallow? Psionics.

[Shark Uppercut]

Nifty. I can see high level Psions and Tome of Battle Classes shelling out for a custom magic item that casts Body Outside Body 1/day at CL15 for 37.8k gold. Simple and easy way to go nova, with the small drawback of possibly taking 30 damage from them dying.


While that's true you're thinking too small. You know what else it doesn't explicitly disallow? Psionics.
Metaconcert... all on your own.

[ryu]

Nifty. I can see high level Psions and Tome of Battle Classes shelling out for a custom magic item that casts Body Outside Body 1/day at CL15 for 37.8k gold. Simple and easy way to go nova, with the small drawback of possibly taking 30 damage from them dying.


Metaconcert... all on your own.

Who needs to pay money? There are WAYS of getting a given spell for use on just about any character, though most require at least a few feats or access to a friendly Spell to Power Erudite somewhere in setting.

[Nebuul]

I never think of psionics because our campaign does not have it :-)

[Ellrin]

Binder might be another good candidate here, make all those pesky once every X rounds (Su) abilities spammable.

[Menzath]

You know what it also doesn't say? That they can't craft items.

If you can reduce metamagic enough to persist and extend it, they can eat the xp to craft most scrolls. With a feat or two, any scroll.

Side note-All their xp. Hint hint.

[Rebel7284]

You know what it also doesn't say? That they can't craft items.

If you can reduce metamagic enough to persist and extend it, they can eat the xp to craft most scrolls. With a feat or two, any scroll.

Side note-All their xp. Hint hint.

I recall there was a rule that you can't pay enough experience (through crafting or otherwise) to make you drop in level. With that said, I notice that the spell is indeed fixed range and has a duration, so all checks out for Persistent Spell application. Which is all types of silly. I think Artificers break this the earliest, but other classes are not far behind.

[weckar]

A real notch on my "Wu Jen get the coolest spells"-belt. Right next to Giant Size.

[Psyren]

While that's true you're thinking too small. You know what else it doesn't explicitly disallow? Psionics.



Metaconcert... all on your own.

Psions (and Erudites/Ardents) can already do both of these things, no Wu Jen required

[weckar]

A Psionic MetaOne-Man-Band, if you will.

[Menzath]

I recall there was a rule that you can't pay enough experience (through crafting or otherwise) to make you drop in level. With that said, I notice that the spell is indeed fixed range and has a duration, so all checks out for Persistent Spell application. Which is all types of silly. I think Artificers break this the earliest, but other classes are not far behind.

While that is true for crafting the item itself, it doesn't hold true to spells that have a material component:XP.
In that sense you can definitely de-level from xp expenditure.

[Nebuul]

There isn't a way to persist this spell, though, is there? Persist is +6 spell levels, making this thing fill, what, a level 13 spell slot? Without persist, you can't even get 24 hours. And then to stack extend on top of it for 48?

There is no sudden persist, nor is there a rod of persist, nor should there be either of those things.

[icefractal]

You would probably use something that applies metamagic for free, like Incantrix or Spell dancing.

[Dagroth]

Arcane Thesis: Reduce Metamagic cost by 1
Easy Metamagic: Reduce Metamagic cost by 1
Practical Metamagic: Reduce Metamagic cost by 1

Now it only takes a 10th level spell slot.

Then use that one feat that lets you use two spell slots to cast a spell of 1 level higher.

2 9th level spells = Easy, Practical, Arcane Thesis, Persistant Body Outside Body.

Or, take a single level of Cleric (or a dip into Sacred Exorcist) and DMM: Persist. The fluff says its for Divine Spells, but the text of the feat itself doesn't differentiate.

[Nebuul]

Spell dancing wouldn't work because it applies only to spell casting, not spell trigger items. Incantrix could do it after level 3 against an existing spell, but that would take a dc 18+3x13 (or 3x15 if extended) spellcraft check, so 57 or 63 (and two of her daily uses since it's only "a" metamagic feat each application), respectively, for a 48-hour Body Outside Body.

So I guess that is the way to do it.

[Rebel7284]

Or, take a single level of Cleric (or a dip into Sacred Exorcist) and DMM: Persist. The fluff says its for Divine Spells, but the text of the feat itself doesn't differentiate.

Check errata, it does say divine only now. However, there are a number of ways to cast arcane spells as divine, so it's possible. I still prefer taking three levels of Incantatrix or using Metamagic Item infusion as an Artificer.

[Dagroth]

Check errata, it does say divine only now. However, there are a number of ways to cast arcane spells as divine, so it's possible. I still prefer taking three levels of Incantatrix or using Metamagic Item infusion as an Artificer.

Okay.

Now, I recall a thread where we discussed how a Sorcerer or Bard could add all the Cleric Spells to their list. How a Bard could add Sorcerer Spells to their list...

But nobody posted how a Cleric or Favored Soul could add Sorcerer or Bard (or Wu Jen, I suppose) spells to their list.

[Troacctid]

There are ways to add metamagic feats to items. A friendly Artificer, for example, can use an infusion to imbue a magic item with one of her metamagic feats. Anima Mages have their Vestige Metamagic, which I believe can be used on items. And there's also the Metamagic Spell Trigger feat, if you can somehow get it in a spell trigger item like a staff.

[icefractal]

But nobody posted how a Cleric or Favored Soul could add Sorcerer or Bard (or Wu Jen, I suppose) spells to their list.It doesn't have to be on the Cleric list, it has to be divine. Southern Magician could do it, for instance.

[Dagroth]

It doesn't have to be on the Cleric list, it has to be divine. Southern Magician could do it, for instance.

But that's not what I want! :smallyuk:

[icefractal]

But that's not what I want! :smallyuk:You don't want DMM: Persist to work, or you don't care about BOB specifically and want a method for adding spells to the Cleric list?

Either "Sorry, but it does" or "That sounds like a new thread" then, I guess.

[Waker]

I always liked the idea of a Wu Jen going into Jade Phoenix Mage. Body Outside Body combined with Emerald Immolation seems like it would be fun.

[Inevitability]

A real notch on my "Wu Jen get the coolest spells"-belt. Right next to Giant Size.

Don't forget Arboreal Transformation. It's a save-or-die without any descriptors to be immune to, it gives you a minion if it works, and even if it doesn't you're Slowing someone for half a month.

Nothing says "I rule" like building a treehouse in the BBEG.

[Gruftzwerg]

BoB synergies well with warlocks/psionics/ToB maneuvers. In my Clawlock build, I also suggest Contigent Spell: BoB (if you are not allowed to build/buy high powered custom items)

But the real Ultimate Combo is Void Disciple's "Moment of Clarity" ability = unlimited pun-pun lvl of power (see signature BoBaFeat)

[Vaz]

Wu Jen 5/Incantatrix 3/Malconvoker 8/Archmage 4, with Infernal Bargainer, Arcane Disciple (Luck), pick up Wish, Miracle, and Body Outside Body, and Greater Spirit Binding as your SLA's.

Congratulations, you can call in any number of 28HD or lower living monster in any book whatsoever, with the Silveraith Template (turns it Undead and makes it Incorporeal, eligible for GSB, which gets +4 (that's not a strict reading though, check with DM beforehand) from Infernal Bargainer and Malconvoker. Boost your Intelligence (cast Polymorph Any Object on self into a Prismatic Great Wyrm for Int 64) before BoB'ing, then have them use Metamagic Effect and using essentially XP free Wish and Miracles on you to cast whichever spells you need to, or get equivalent buffs, and constantly rinsing and repeating, while using GSB to bring you any useful abilities you can think of as you order your clones to order the GSB'd creatures to use their powers on you.

Sorted.

[CIDE]

I completely forgot about this spell. I've been inspired to toss my Artificer a continuous use item of BOB for crafting shenanigans now. Easy enough to simply drop the item and end its effects once all of the clones have run their course only to pick it up again and restart the process. It wouldn't be cheap but it's a level 20 Artificer in an epic world; it's not going to be that bad.

Not the best use of the spell but who cares? If I really need to I could create a command word item of shapechange or something and abuse the various forms available for the clones that way for combat.