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View Full Version : Why do half-dragons exist from a lore perspective in DND



Mundus33
2017-05-03, 03:34 AM
Now I know that the main reason half-dragons exist is mainly because of both Sorcerers and people wanting a half-dragon archetype; but from a lore perspective to me it doesn't make much sense. Why would a dragon have relations with a human/whatever are they like humans and are just ready to get down whenever(from a lore perspective). That contradicts the fact that even Good dragons have a big ego and view themselves as above other mortals I mean from a dragons perspective it's "technically" bestiality since they view most things as prey or a means to an end.

Dragons also aren't social creatures and usually don't mate for life from what I've read some stay together until the egg hatches and get the wyrmling started but they end up leaving. I also can't find anything about Dragons falling in love. Half-Dragons are also much weaker than regular dragons so it brings up the question of why.

On a sidenote I think the idea of dragons just being down with anyone and anything kind of hilarious especially considering their long lifespans they probably have some super weird fetishes.

Piedmon_Sama
2017-05-03, 03:40 AM
So, like, if a book didn't say somewhere "dragons can totes fall in love" you assume that love is like, mysterious to them? When they're supposed to be actually like, basically smarter than humans in all respects? Also like, who cares if Half Dragons don't have the power level of regular Dragons, just 'cuz you're a Dragon you gotta be like Vegeta and be like "HRRRNGH MY SON MUST BE... STRONGG" Evil ones wouldn't care and good ones would consider their offspring to have numerous advantages among humanoids anyway

Kalmageddon
2017-05-03, 03:46 AM
On a sidenote I think the idea of dragons just being down with anyone and anything kind of hilarious especially considering their long lifespans they probably have some super weird fetishes.

That's the actual lore justification in my head.
"Look, human, after a millennia or so, regular dragon sex just doesn't cut it anymore, ok? I... experimented... And guess what? Tendriculoses are caring and giving lovers. Who are you to judge?"

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-05-03, 03:48 AM
Because revenge is a dish best served cold, and it's just too funny if the princess ends up kicked out by her brave hero several months after the wedding because their kid is scaly and breaths fire.

Mundus33
2017-05-03, 03:49 AM
So, like, if a book didn't say somewhere "dragons can totes fall in love" you assume that emotion is like, totally closed to them? When they're supposed to be actually like, basically smarter than humans in all respects? Also like, who cares if Half Dragons don't have the power level of regular Dragons, just 'cuz you're a Dragon you gotta be like Vegeta and be like "HRRRNGH MY SON MUST BE... STRONGG" Evil ones wouldn't care and good ones would consider their offspring to have numerous advantages among humanoids anyway

I'm just saying from a logical perspective I don't know why a dragon would get jiggy with it with anyone other than another dragon. I mean maybe Dragons can fall in love but a dragon falling in love with a human is like a human falling in love with a monkey not gonna say its impossible but unlikely.

Also none of this question is really serious it half curiosity/ half humor.

Professor Chimp
2017-05-03, 04:03 AM
I just assume they all experimented in college.

Koo Rehtorb
2017-05-03, 04:06 AM
Who says they're falling in love?

Millstone85
2017-05-03, 04:11 AM
Polymorph does weird things to your libido.

CharonsHelper
2017-05-03, 07:34 AM
Also like, who cares if Half Dragons don't have the power level of regular Dragons, just 'cuz you're a Dragon you gotta be like Vegeta and be like "HRRRNGH MY SON MUST BE... STRONGG"

Besides which - they might not get as strong as a millennia old dragon, but 20-40 years down the line a half-human/half-dragon will likely be more powerful if he becomes an adventurer.

I actually did a storyline about that and an evil dragon. He intentionally had bunches of half-human kids with the idea that he was spawning a badass army which would be ready in a mere 30ish years. He even had some half-dragon mounts for them to go into battle on. (Hey - dragons are freaky!)

DigoDragon
2017-05-03, 07:45 AM
I'm just saying from a logical perspective I don't know why a dragon would get jiggy with it with anyone other than another dragon. I mean maybe Dragons can fall in love but a dragon falling in love with a human is like a human falling in love with a monkey not gonna say its impossible but unlikely.

Dragons don't have to go for the love angle. :smallamused: Maybe the dragon sees potential for minions that are stronger than typical pure-blood human, elf, or dwarf slaves. Maybe the dragon has a kobold cult worshiping them and they want to sire a leader who'll be able to lead those kobolds in successful raids, while still being loyal to the dragon.

The theory I like to go with is that the dragon was bored and decided to polymorph into a humanoid for a night to carouse and learn the local gossip. However, things go south when they get drunk and accidentally bumped into the PC bard....

Random Sanity
2017-05-03, 07:47 AM
I got a better question - why would a dragon, with his vast lifespan and inability to care about the consequences for a few warmblooded mayflies, NOT seek physical pleasure amongst these lesser creatures? From a dragon's perspective, what are these tiny mortals there for, if not for his amusement?

ngilop
2017-05-03, 07:48 AM
So, like, if a book didn't say somewhere "dragons can totes fall in love" you assume that love is like, mysterious to them? When they're supposed to be actually like, basically smarter than humans in all respects? Also like, who cares if Half Dragons don't have the power level of regular Dragons, just 'cuz you're a Dragon you gotta be like Vegeta and be like "HRRRNGH MY SON MUST BE... STRONGG" Evil ones wouldn't care and good ones would consider their offspring to have numerous advantages among humanoids anyway


I literally have no idea what this says, but the general feel of valley girl ness of it all makes me agree 111% (Because I can't even) cookies if you get that joke.

Mikemical
2017-05-03, 08:08 AM
Dragons are the Bards of the Monster Manual.

Also, they're cute AF
http://i.imgur.com/uH1kWCo.jpg

Real talk, good dragons can develop affection for certain individuals they become close with. Silver dragons sometimes give advise or help good adventurers, brass dragons love conversation and exchanging stories(therefore a Bard would be a very attractive partner), gold dragons hold good and honor in high esteem(making a classic Paladin the ideal suitor), just to list three examples.

Evil dragons could have plans which may include creating spawn that would be useful to them in the future. Or as explained in the Book of Edgy Tryhardiness(Vile Darkness), some dragons could have skewed inclinations regarding what is valuable and worth adding to their hoard. How much worth is a princess' maidenhood? If he takes it, then it's permanently his and cannot be taken back. Or maybe he chooses to hoard a village's first-born daughters because of their sentimental value to their families. And sometimes, dragons are irresponsible jocks that just sleep around because "I'm technically immortal and females only wanna bang every 200 years or so, meanwhile, there's all these little people I could easily woo to my bed."

Lemmy
2017-05-03, 08:20 AM
To create new delicacies. Half-dragon halfling tastes delicious!

Also, when you live thousands of years, you probably end up trying a lot of freaky stuff... :smallbiggrin:

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-05-03, 08:48 AM
I actually did a storyline about that and an evil dragon. He intentionally had bunches of half-human kids with the idea that he was spawning a badass army which would be ready in a mere 30ish years. He even had some half-dragon mounts for them to go into battle on. (Hey - dragons are freaky!)

That's awesome. It's also completely fitting given what the OP was talking about. If getting freaky with a human is already akin to bestiality, why not a horse?

In fact, why not skip the middle man and make half-dragon centaurs? They're large (as are horses and other mounts for humans), so I think that would give them a flight speed, right? I can't imagine that not being an awesome enemy army to fight.

hymer
2017-05-03, 08:55 AM
Maybe we shouldn't be looking all at the dragons. E.g., the Orbs of Dragonkind must, through the aeons, have fallen into the hands of the perverted, the silly, and the extremely curious on occasion. And then there's the mad alchemist using infusions of dragonblood to unspeakable purposes.

Martin Greywolf
2017-05-03, 09:05 AM
If you want a nice, logical way for half-dragons and other assorted dragon-related weirdness to exist, there's a simple explanation: it wasn't the dragons.

Thing is, dragons are powerful, magical and immortal (or at least damn close to being immortal from the perspective of a human) - wouldn't you want to be a dragon? And when people really, really want something, ethically questionable experiments are just a step behind.

Long story short, it's the humans who are trying to acquire one thing or another that the dragons have from birth, be it flight, durability, longevity, breath weapons and so on and so forth. These experiments can sometimes survive and, even more rarely, are capable of procreation.

Another possibility may be that dragons, especially the less moral ones, simply use sex as one of the many means of manipulating people, and since they have access to shapeshifting magic, it works pretty well reasonably often. The dragons likely don't have the same hangups about sex that the mortals/humans/modern society have, and they may well not be terribly nurturing to their own half-breeds.

And lastly, if you want to go really old school, and I mean Fafnir old school, dragon blood can have strong properties and contaminate whatever it touches. Effects vary by many factors, which is to say they vary by what the DM needs them to do.

CharonsHelper
2017-05-03, 09:09 AM
That's awesome. It's also completely fitting given what the OP was talking about. If getting freaky with a human is already akin to bestiality, why not a horse?

In fact, why not skip the middle man and make half-dragon centaurs? They're large (as are horses and other mounts for humans), so I think that would give them a flight speed, right? I can't imagine that not being an awesome enemy army to fight.

Actually - no horses in what I had planned out. Think half-dragon griffins & hippogriffs!

And the advantage to humans is that they can integrate with normal society. Sure - being half-dragon will get them looked at askance, but PCs do that when they're weird races. Plus - nothing that a hat of disguise can't fix.

He didn't have enough spawn to have a conquering army. I think that it was 100ish. (Even a dragon's fertility has limits!) More a small bad-ass strike force which could go wherever he needed them. Still freakin' scary since they all had PC classes and all the half-dragon bonuses.

Zombimode
2017-05-03, 09:25 AM
For Eberron: because the Prophecy demanded it

For other Settings: because Xorvintal

Necroticplague
2017-05-03, 09:46 AM
1. The children of half dragons can also be half-dragons. It takes a few generations for the blood to dilute outwards to be reduced to the Draconic template.
2. Dragons have been shown to be fundamentally human in their mindset. Even if some of their emotions are more dominant drives, they still have a human psychology that would lead to the same occasional lapses in judgement as anything else. (related note: teenage dragons are the same size as human).
3. Even viewing lesser creatures as merely a means to an end, why would that be in any way related? Why can't the dragon's own pleasure be a valid end (and if said lesser creature ends up with some bastard spawn because of it, oh well, not the dragon's problem)?
4. Bestiality isn't really much of a valid comparison. Bestiality is an ethical weird point in real life because of problems associated with non-sapient creatures giving informed consent (since it's possible for them to be too dense to be informed, and have difficulty communicating consent). It's also a reflexive disgust for many for evolutionary reasons (long story short: those who stuck within their own species tended to have more kids for obvious reasons). Neither of these problems exist for dragons in dnd (given that, well, half dragons can exist, and there exist other sapient creatures).
5. Because dragons live a long time, and tend to have some form of plot going on, it's possible for having and raising half-dragon children to adulthood could serve their own plots. I.e, pawns in a long-running game of xorvintal, future adventurers that can help expand it's horde, A superior next generation to help slay a rival.

LibraryOgre
2017-05-03, 10:12 AM
Dragons also aren't social creatures and usually don't mate for life from what I've read some stay together until the egg hatches and get the wyrmling started but they end up leaving. I also can't find anything about Dragons falling in love. Half-Dragons are also much weaker than regular dragons so it brings up the question of why.

Half-dragons originally came from the Council of Wyrms setting; they could only be the offspring of male dragons capable of naturally polymorphing and female demihumans (due to the setting, not humans). That, in and of itself, limited it to three types of Lawful Good dragons... bronze, silver, and gold. Silvers, in particular, are noted as being sympathetic with the more mortal races; expansions on the concept in 2e ("Part Dragon, All Hero" by Roger Moore in Dragon 206) kept those basic concepts around. Greyhawk and Waterdeep dragons are both noted as having extensive sympathy with humans.

As for dragons not falling in love, I would suggest you read Legend of Huma by Richard A. Knaak, and the Chronicles trilogy by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman; in both, you have female dragons who fall in love with mortals; Huma and Gilthanas, respectively. Since it is female dragons with male (demi)humans, no offspring was possible by the rules laid out in Council of Wyrms... though there are suggestions that Usha Majere may have been a Krynnish half-silver, a slightly different sort of beast than the standard half-silver of Council of Wyrms.

Jay R
2017-05-03, 10:57 AM
I don't find that aspect of a relationship to be worth role-playing. What the dragon saw in the princess forty years ago is simply not necessary knowledge to playing a sorcerer, just as I don't contemplate my parents' private relations when striving in my own career.

Besides, my experience in dealing with the world convinces me that nobody ever really understands anybody else's choices in this regard. If I can't understand what my best friend of many years sees in his girlfriend, why would I expect to understand the romantic or physical urges of a member of a totally different species with a completely alien viewpoint.

Waker
2017-05-03, 11:00 AM
Dragons are the Bards of the Monster Manual.

Also, they're cute AF
http://i.imgur.com/uH1kWCo.jpg


What manga is this from?

Mikemical
2017-05-03, 03:40 PM
What manga is this from?

It's from a guy named sanzu on pixiv. He does a lot of dragon-related short comics, but nothing lewd, and nothing meaningfully long either. And unfortunately, the only manga he got published(My Girlfriend is a T-Rex) only got 27 chapters before he said he wasn't doing anymore chapters and was focusing on his short, independant comics.

BWR
2017-05-03, 04:16 PM
Generations of crazy wizards using captured dragons for magical experimentation, in my game.
One PC is the (potentially) crowning achievement of the experiments: a human who had some of the powers of a dragon (dragon disciple rather than the template). Liberal use of the Vivisection spells and Clone to minutely observe and record the results.

So no sex, just magical GMO.

Honest Tiefling
2017-05-03, 04:17 PM
Honestly, dragons and humans are basically the two races of DnD that'll screw anything. Demons, devils, celestial, possibly doppelgangers, fey, werewolves, halflings, dwarves, it's all good.

I think the very classic idea of Aragon and other human/elf hybrids just got dialed up to 11 at some point and it became an easy way to introduce more races for settings/books. Through I wonder if it is more or less common then the 'Wizard did it' form of hybridization.

Sredni Vashtar
2017-05-04, 05:45 AM
Isn't there some sort of canonical ritual to become a half-dragon? I'm using something similar in my campaign, and I forgot exactly where I got the idea.

Darth Ultron
2017-05-04, 06:49 AM
Now I know that the main reason half-dragons exist is mainly because of both Sorcerers and people wanting a half-dragon archetype; but from a lore perspective to me it doesn't make much sense. Why would a dragon have relations with a human/whatever are they like humans and are just ready to get down whenever(from a lore perspective). That contradicts the fact that even Good dragons have a big ego and view themselves as above other mortals I mean from a dragons perspective it's "technically" bestiality since they view most things as prey or a means to an end.

Dragons also aren't social creatures and usually don't mate for life from what I've read some stay together until the egg hatches and get the wyrmling started but they end up leaving. I also can't find anything about Dragons falling in love. Half-Dragons are also much weaker than regular dragons so it brings up the question of why.

On a sidenote I think the idea of dragons just being down with anyone and anything kind of hilarious especially considering their long lifespans they probably have some super weird fetishes.

I'd guess you have not read any D&D books, novels and rule books, from the past 40 years or so?

Intelligent Beings fall in love, it is just one of the mysteries of life, and love itself is a mystery. Why does X like Y? They just do. So you can see plenty of humans and dragons liking each other (really, you can find humans that love dragons, really, Goggle it if you dare) and falling in love. A human might like the 'power' of a dragon, and a dragon might like the 'vulnerability' of the human, for example. Or it could just be that they are soulmates.

Even if good dragons felt they were 'above' the humans....well, that does not say they won't 'mate' with them (Um, again, you might want to Goggle history here....and again, if you dare.)

Dragons are not 'social', at least not 'group social', but they do like to have a lover/companion/mate......and sure 75% of dragons do the ''mate and run'', but that does say 25% don't.....

How many D&D dragon love stories would you like.....D&D fiction is full of them.

A ''half dragon'' is weaker then a dragon, but sure is more powerful then a human...assuming 'power' matters.

Well, um, mating with anything that moves is s super weird fetish, no? And this is a dragon lore thing too, as some dragons like to spread the ''seed of their dragon kind' around and live in a world of ''all their children'.

weckar
2017-05-04, 06:52 AM
Dragons with a Zeus complex. I could see that happening honestly.

5ColouredWalker
2017-05-04, 06:52 AM
From memory, some of the more social shape changing ones (Copper I think) hang around with mortals all the time for fun, and sometimes get laid.
This eventually resulted in half-dragons, which the others noticed.

Later on, Half-Red dragons canonically exist from Red Dragons deliberately breeding them for use as guards/slaves/soldiers because they're more powerful than other mortals.

Other varieties? No clue off the top of my head

weckar
2017-05-04, 06:54 AM
Silvers are big on the humanoid shape thing too.

GungHo
2017-05-04, 10:13 AM
Isn't there some sort of canonical ritual to become a half-dragon? I'm using something similar in my campaign, and I forgot exactly where I got the idea.

Well, there's the Dark Sun way of doing it, where if you're a powerful enough arcane caster, you can go on that journey (as opposed to lichdom).

Calthropstu
2017-05-04, 10:28 AM
The answer to the op can be summed up in 1 word: boredom.

Dragons are capable of shapeshifting and traversing through human cities as humans and other creatures. They have high charisma and so attract would be suiters. They live for millenia. So they are traversing a city, someone tries to make a pass at them and they think "eh, why not. Lets see how sex is in this form..."

BWR
2017-05-04, 03:25 PM
Actually I did play in one game where one dragon was fascinated by humans (all the other dragons thought he was weird) and eventually tried having sex with one (all the other dragons thought he was a damn pervert). He was very surprised when he went back to visit the woman in question a little later and found he had a son of several years. After that the damn things kept multiplying and everyone came along to show him the new sprog. He was never quite sure how to handle it, so he'd give them some trinkets (like a complete set of Figurines of Wondrous Power, to a four year old) and tried to get his head around this human 'family' thing.

Psyren
2017-05-04, 03:52 PM
OP - you're asking for love to conform to standards of consistency and logic. Love.

Not saying it can't, but demanding that it do so 100% of the time?


I got a better question - why would a dragon, with his vast lifespan and inability to care about the consequences for a few warmblooded mayflies, NOT seek physical pleasure amongst these lesser creatures? From a dragon's perspective, what are these tiny mortals there for, if not for his amusement?

Not that I disagree, but dragons are mortal too - and beyond that, there are plenty of long-lived non-dragons out there.

Kami2awa
2017-05-17, 01:29 PM
A wizard did it.

FreddyNoNose
2017-05-17, 03:19 PM
Now I know that the main reason half-dragons exist is mainly because of both Sorcerers and people wanting a half-dragon archetype; but from a lore perspective to me it doesn't make much sense. Why would a dragon have relations with a human/whatever are they like humans and are just ready to get down whenever(from a lore perspective). That contradicts the fact that even Good dragons have a big ego and view themselves as above other mortals I mean from a dragons perspective it's "technically" bestiality since they view most things as prey or a means to an end.

Dragons also aren't social creatures and usually don't mate for life from what I've read some stay together until the egg hatches and get the wyrmling started but they end up leaving. I also can't find anything about Dragons falling in love. Half-Dragons are also much weaker than regular dragons so it brings up the question of why.

On a sidenote I think the idea of dragons just being down with anyone and anything kind of hilarious especially considering their long lifespans they probably have some super weird fetishes.

I don't know if I will buy into your point about them social and mating habits. IMO, it has gone back to the idea that some dragons shapeshift into human(oid) form and proceed to mate. You can guess the end result.

falcon1
2017-05-17, 04:17 PM
The way I've always done it is just spending enough time around a dragon can make you a half-dragon...or more likely your child.

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-05-18, 01:43 AM
A wizard did it.

A poorly worded wish.

"I wish I could **** up every dragon I wanted."

smuchmuch
2017-05-18, 03:30 AM
A wizard did it.

*wizzard wakes up with a hangover*
"Oh god, what did i do last night ?! last time we created the owlbear. .. Oh good no weird hybrid this time around !
*Polymorphed dragon whistle as they leave the bed*

Nightcanon
2017-05-18, 03:57 AM
As for dragons not falling in love, I would suggest you read Legend of Huma by Richard A. Knaak, and the Chronicles trilogy by Margaret Weiss and Tracy Hickman; in both, you have female dragons who fall in love with mortals; Huma and Gilthanas, respectively. Since it is female dragons with male (demi)humans, no offspring was possible by the rules laid out in Council of Wyrms... though there are suggestions that Usha Majere may have been a Krynnish half-silver, a slightly different sort of beast than the standard half-silver of Council of Wyrms.

From a "D&D Lore" point of view it's perhaps worth noting that as far as D&D novels are concerned, Dragonlance Chronicles is about as early as things go (30+ years now!). While the novelisation of The Legend of Huma was part of a spin-off series, Huma's relationship with the Silver Dragon was canon from the start of the Chronicles; Gilthanas' similar relationship is explicitly flagged as being a case of history repeating itself.

Noje
2017-05-18, 04:06 AM
I see some fairly convincing arguments both ways, but I'm surprised no one has mentioned that dragons lay eggs, while humans and most demi-humans use live birth. Even if we were able to put that aside, a human or demi-human female would not be able to carry such a huge offspring (this is why the horse must be the female when breeding for mules). Personally I don't really buy the idea of a romantic relationship between a dragon and it's food, but hey, you do you.

Of course, it ultimately depends on how much you are willing to suspend you're disbelief. When DMing, I opt not to use them when I can get away with it, but when I play my go-to explanations are:

1. a magic-user did some magic tomfoolery on a dragon egg or hatchling

2. some sort of divine magic tomfoolery of the same nature

Dragonexx
2017-05-18, 05:52 AM
https://us.v-cdn.net/5019558/uploads/FileUpload/9d/68cff88294c16e82763099b7da74e0.jpg
More seriously.
Most of the actual biology can just be handwaved because of *magibabble* reasons. The way I describe it, the birth depends on the sex of the parent. Take humans for example. If the mother is human, it's a live birth. If the mother is a dragon, the child hatches from an egg.

As to why they do this, there's a variety of reasons. Genuine love. Lust and pleasure (I agree that polymorph can do weird things to your libido). Curiosity. Desire for strong and capable progeny. Some long strategy (Prophecy, Xorvintaal). Rape. Drunk one night stand. Various other reasons.

On another note, what about other creatures besides humans that are known for breeding outside their species. Say celestials or fiends? How the **** does that turn out? Both are capable of creating half-templates of their own. And I've seen half versions going either way [albeit in different books].

cobaltstarfire
2017-05-18, 10:05 AM
(this is why the horse must be the female when breeding for mules).

That's not correct you can breed a male horse to a female donkey, you'll get a hinny from it. Growth is determined by the womb environment, and restricted by the size (hinny's are often smaller than mules for example). Another good example would be Tigons and Ligers (Tiger/Lioness, Lion/Tigeress). One grows to ludicrous sizes beyond that of a tiger as an adult not because of the size of the womb, but because the difference in hormones they are exposed to while in it. The other offspring stays smaller than even a typical lion, again because of the difference of hormone exposure.

As far as half dragon's in human wombs, there's nothing that says that the fetus must grow to the size of a full blooded baby dragon (which isn't really too big for a human to give birth to anyway in most cases), A human fused with the DNA of a magical creature, and being birthed healthily is not too much of a stretch, not after you've already done the mental limbo to get past two completely different creatures somehow being able to create a viable fetus in the first place.

Some one was asking if there was a ritual to become a half dragon sort of thing. And there is, in 3.5 there is the Spawn of Bahamut or something like that. I don't remember the details (or if there is a Tiamat version of it) But the ritual does involve going into an egg one made, and then being magically rehatched with the dragon subtype.

RazorChain
2017-05-18, 01:37 PM
I'm just saying from a logical perspective I don't know why a dragon would get jiggy with it with anyone other than another dragon. I mean maybe Dragons can fall in love but a dragon falling in love with a human is like a human falling in love with a monkey not gonna say its impossible but unlikely.

Also none of this question is really serious it half curiosity/ half humor.

Well some people REALLY love their sheep.

The interesting part is how DnD completely eschews genetics. Reptile having kids with mammals. And if you say because they shape change then that really opens the door to peoples kitsune and nekomimi fantasies.

Hide your cats and foxes a shapechanger is coming to town.

LibraryOgre
2017-05-18, 01:53 PM
The interesting part is how DnD completely eschews genetics. Reptile having kids with mammals. And if you say because they shape change then that really opens the door to peoples kitsune and nekomimi fantasies.


Dragons aren't reptiles. They're monotremes.

Kalmageddon
2017-05-18, 02:14 PM
On a serious note, I find the idea of interracial hot steamy action between a several dozen meters long flying lizard and a human to fly right past unlikely and straight to ridiculous. The joke I made earlier about the tendriculus? Yeah that can happen, you can actually have, by RAW , half dragon plants.
The only way to keep this relatively acceptable is that half dragon is not an archetype that results from interbreeding of a dragon and something else, but rather the result of some kind of ritual made to channel a dragon's power into a vessel.

RazorChain
2017-05-18, 05:28 PM
Dragons aren't reptiles. They're monotremes.

Really? dont see the resemblance, but next time around my dragons will resemble giant winged platypus rather than a giant winged lizard

LibraryOgre
2017-05-18, 07:35 PM
On a serious note, I find the idea of interracial hot steamy action between a several dozen meters long flying lizard and a human to fly right past unlikely and straight to ridiculous. The joke I made earlier about the tendriculus? Yeah that can happen, you can actually have, by RAW , half dragon plants.
The only way to keep this relatively acceptable is that half dragon is not an archetype that results from interbreeding of a dragon and something else, but rather the result of some kind of ritual made to channel a dragon's power into a vessel.

As mentioned, the original version required species with the innate ability to polymorph self.

cobaltstarfire
2017-05-18, 10:27 PM
Really? dont see the resemblance, but next time around my dragons will resemble giant winged platypus rather than a giant winged lizard

“Dragons are scaly, they lay eggs, and they are utterly lacking in any mammalian characteristics. The notion that they are warmblooded is silly.”
—Aloysius Egon Greegier, armchair dragon scholar

“Just like a humanoid to quote three facts, get one of them wrong, and then draw an unrelated conclusion from the lot.” —Kacdaninymila, young adult gold dragon, upon reading Greegier’s statement

(3.5 draconomicon in the section of draconic biology among other things).

RedWarlock
2017-05-19, 10:20 PM
Mammals have mammaries, it's in the name. Warm-bloodedness is not the only mammalian trait.

If we're sticking dragons anywhere in the real-world cladistic tree, they best fit the archosauria/dinosauria. Warm blooded, straight-legged stance, egg-laying, non-mammary. (Though if you follow recent paleontology blogs, feathers are possibly a basic trait for dinosaurs as well! There's a hypothetical tree going around that shuffles Sauropoda outside the Ornithiscia/Theropoda group ("descended from nearest common ancestor of t.rex and triceratops" is the definition of Dinosauria, iirc), because both had feather-like structures, but sauropods didn't.)

Jay R
2017-05-19, 11:06 PM
I don't understand why many of my friends have chosen the lover they have. I'm certainly not going to try to figure out what strangers of another race are doing.

5ColouredWalker
2017-05-20, 09:24 AM
Mammals have mammaries, it's in the name. Warm-bloodedness is not the only mammalian trait.

If we're sticking dragons anywhere in the real-world cladistic tree, they best fit the archosauria/dinosauria. Warm blooded, straight-legged stance, egg-laying, non-mammary. (Though if you follow recent paleontology blogs, feathers are possibly a basic trait for dinosaurs as well! There's a hypothetical tree going around that shuffles Sauropoda outside the Ornithiscia/Theropoda group ("descended from nearest common ancestor of t.rex and triceratops" is the definition of Dinosauria, iirc), because both had feather-like structures, but sauropods didn't.)

Six limbs. They're actually a type of insect.

Jay R
2017-05-20, 10:13 AM
Six limbs. They're actually a type of insect.

While bird wings are the same sort of limbs as mammalian arms or forelegs, insect wings aren't.

Insects have six legs. Flying insects have six legs and two wings.

sengmeng
2017-05-20, 10:16 AM
Relationships require affection and some measure of respect or feelings of equality. Sexual acts? Not so much. And dragons can be curious, careless, and uninterested in optimising the power levels of their offspring just as much as humans.

Another point: dragons are intelligent and distinct individuals. The reason for any pairing is particular to that dragon in that moment.

Jay R
2017-05-20, 10:16 AM
That contradicts the fact that even Good dragons have a big ego and view themselves as above other mortals I mean from a dragons perspective it's "technically" bestiality since they view most things as prey or a means to an end.

I think you're underestimating their egos.

Go to the right kind of store, and see the large and varied items that people use as sex toys. Since dragons think humans are so far below them, it's closer to that than to a relationship.

sengmeng
2017-05-20, 10:42 AM
I think you're underestimating their egos.

Go to the right kind of store, and see the large and varied items that people use as sex toys. Since dragons think humans are so far below them, it's closer to that than to a relationship.

Yeah, read Howard Griffin's Black Like Me and you'll see that considering yourself superior to a group in every way is no barrier to having sex with them. Or don't read it because it's harrowing.

Velaryon
2017-05-20, 12:48 PM
My sticking point for this is that IIRC only metallic dragons have an inherent ability to polymorph themselves. Chromatic dragons, for whatever reason, don't have the ability until/unless they advance their spellcasting sufficiently and choose to take the polymorph spell. So why then are half-red/black/white/green/blue/etc. dragons a thing? Must every one of them have come from a dragon that chose to learn the polymorph spell?

Or perhaps, do some of them come from the other direction? If an extremely powerful wizard shapechanges themself into a dragon and does the deed with a real dragon, can that create a half-dragon as well? If the dragon was female, does her egg hatch only for her to find that there's a little human boy with dragon wings inside?

Honest Tiefling
2017-05-20, 01:00 PM
Or perhaps, do some of them come from the other direction? If an extremely powerful wizard shapechanges themself into a dragon and does the deed with a real dragon, can that create a half-dragon as well? If the dragon was female, does her egg hatch only for her to find that there's a little human boy with dragon wings inside?

If I was a wizard and looking for a sperm donor, I think you could do a lot worse then a dragon all things considered. And somehow a little tiny baby with dragon wings seems oddly adorable.

Through can't a Chromatic Dragon use an item to polymorph themselves? They have UMD as a class skill in 3.5, so I don't see why not.

Jay R
2017-05-20, 06:27 PM
Half-elves. Half-orcs. Half-ogres. Half-celestials. Half-fiends. Half-elementals. Half-fey.

And you’re blaming the dragons for half-dragons? The dragon just happened to be nearby.

Based on what the rules imply about humans, I wouldn’t be surprised to eventually see half-owlbears, half-badgers, half-gelatinous-cubes, half-barstools, …

Harpies, …. Centaurs, ….

AvatarVecna
2017-05-20, 06:36 PM
As long as it can physically be mated with, and is actually alive, a dragon can mate with it. You can have a Half-Dragon Tree. Not Treant, tree.

EDIT: That isn't to say you couldn't have a Half-Dragon Treant, but rather just clarifying that I don't mean a sentient tree-being with my example, I mean an actual freaking tree.

sengmeng
2017-05-20, 07:10 PM
As long as it can physically be mated with, and is actually alive, a dragon can mate with it. You can have a Half-Dragon Tree. Not Treant, tree.

EDIT: That isn't to say you couldn't have a Half-Dragon Treant, but rather just clarifying that I don't mean a sentient tree-being with my example, I mean an actual freaking tree.

Yeah, this is pretty much thread over. Half-dragons CAN exist, so they do exist. Really, the rules say they can and it's up to the DM as to why or how often, as fitting to the campaign world.

Lvl 2 Expert
2017-05-22, 04:28 AM
Six limbs. They're actually a type of insect.

Nah, that's probably just convergent evolution. The most likely cladistics location is that place that leaves the smallest amount of treats needing to evolve since the latest split (summarizing it too much and cutting some corners, but close enough).

I'd say archosauria are a good place for it, there is some good evidence that the last common ancestor of birds/dinosaurs and crocodiles was already more warm blooded and active than often assumed. Crocodiles have some pretty weird features after all, like a four chambered heart typically reserved for warm blooded animals that reverts to functioning like a three chambered one while diving and lungs that seem to be able to maintain a constant airflow without the need for birdlike air sacs for some semi-miraculous reason, making it very likely that the land crocs that were there ancestors were actually pretty close to modern mammals in activity. Fossil evidence like the structure of those creatures legs seems to support that idea. The main things we need to explain from there is functional wings, functional fire breathing and functional magic, and two of those things are pretty out there no matter where you start. (Unless maybe you think a bombardier beetle might be a good ancestor, than you could argue that number down to one.) Intelligence is also not really more of an obstacle than in mammals. Birds if anything are smarter than mammals on average, and even crocodiles get a surprising amount of smarts out of how small and primitive their brains appear.

Maybe those wings started as bony outgrowths similar to what's on the backs of aetosaurs, ankylosaurs and stegosaurs?

But if we find dragon milk I'm also not opposed to monotremes either, it seems like an interesting idea.

Neokiva
2018-12-04, 06:53 PM
Well I suppose it can be a variety of reason, ammaratha cyndusk a song dragoness that shape changed into a human jeweller in waterdeep was Elminster's **** buddy and she eventually decided she wanted to bare him a child, which was difficult as a chosen of mystara he could control his fertility. She goes on a quest to visit other chosen of mystara to find a way to allow her to conceive a child despite this the one she asked originally refused but mystara was like fam do this for the girl. She later conceived Narnra shalace the silken shadow.

Roland St. Jude
2018-12-04, 09:57 PM
Sheriff: Thread necromancy. Please don't do that.