3.5 Fighter - Assistance required :)

[Kelaundril]

Hello guys,

New here, and quite frankly new to DnD as a whole, so bare with me and feel free to point me in the direction of anything that would already fulfill my needs.. Onto the good stuff.

This year I started playing a DnD campaign (3.5 rules), and decided to roll a Drow fighter since my friend was a Drow and said we could buddy up (hes alot more experienced than me). Now I'm level 12 and realizing there is ALOT of depth to this and I have been pretty much just going as boring and standard as possible. So my GM has given me free reign to potentially re-design my char since I had no idea you could prestige or multi class etcetc.

So my question to you is, as a Neutral Evil Drow fighter, what sort of prestige class would you go for? I can spend all the way from 1 - 12. I don't mind using dual swords or an individual 2 hander, but have been avoiding using a shield as I don't want to be forced down the tank route with this character... maybe another time :D.

Let me hear your thoughts!

Thanks,
Kelaundril

[flappeercraft]

I would reccomend just removing Drow as a whole due to the +2 LA and replace it with a Half Drow and just refluff it as if you were a drow for no LA. Also I would reccomend taking a couple of levels in Swordsage or Warblade from ToB (Book of nine swords:Tome of Battle) for a couple of maneuvers for versatility instead of the regular run up and hit style of a regular fighter. Keep in mind those are base classes not Prestige classes.

[noce]

You could take a look at Underdark and Drow of the Underdark books, they're stuffed with drow stuff.

Cavestalker is notably good with the spiked chain.
Drow Judicator is quite good, too, and flavourful.

Outside those two Underdark books, Complete Warrior, Complete Champion and Tome of Battle are good sources of melee prestige classes.

[Waker]

There are many, many ways that a character can be built. To help narrow down the selection a bit, I have to ask, what do you see when you think of your character? Do you imagine he's someone who just overpowers his foes, out thinks them, works with others to overcome threats... What is the mental image you have?

[DEMON]

There are many, many ways that a character can be built. To help narrow down the selection a bit, I have to ask, what do you see when you think of your character? Do you imagine he's someone who just overpowers his foes, out thinks them, works with others to overcome threats... What is the mental image you have?

Seconded.

Though I'd be also interested in knowing your current build (and where you'd like to move from it) and how it fares compared to other PCs in your group, so you don't show up with something completely outside the group's power level (on either end of the curve).

[SCOTTEPIPPEN]

Hello guys,

New here, and quite frankly new to DnD as a whole, so bare with me and feel free to point me in the direction of anything that would already fulfill my needs.. Onto the good stuff.

This year I started playing a DnD campaign (3.5 rules), and decided to roll a Drow fighter since my friend was a Drow and said we could buddy up (hes alot more experienced than me). Now I'm level 12 and realizing there is ALOT of depth to this and I have been pretty much just going as boring and standard as possible. So my GM has given me free reign to potentially re-design my char since I had no idea you could prestige or multi class etcetc.

So my question to you is, as a Neutral Evil Drow fighter, what sort of prestige class would you go for? I can spend all the way from 1 - 12. I don't mind using dual swords or an individual 2 hander, but have been avoiding using a shield as I don't want to be forced down the tank route with this character... maybe another time :D.

Let me hear your thoughts!

Thanks,
Kelaundril
So, I would suggest you not to pick a drow, but if you wanna keep the fluff in you could take the half-drow. Are all manuals allowed? You could go with a two-handed hypercharger with the Dungeoncrasher variant and charging feats.
Also try to avoid taking a lot of fighter levels: instead dip in the class for the 2 extra feats and try to multiclass; if you wanna Mount while charging try the CW PrC (i don't remember the name, but it lets you multiply your charging damage) with a 1lv. dip into cleric with the Might domain from SpC: pick rhino's rush and have fun (not optimized but still fun if you are new to the game)!

[Grod_The_Giant]

Drow do have a high level adjustment. If you can get rid of that and go up to a 14th level character, that would be fantastic. Lesser Drow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2)exist, for instance, at LA +0.

Also, what books do you have access to? How much complexity would you like, on a scale of "I full attack every turn" to "I've got, like, bits of three different magic-type systems going on?"

A few basic suggestions for making a Fighter more interesting, though:

Take the Thug ACF from Unearthed Arcana (also available on the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug)). This trades your 1st level bonus feat and medium and heavy armor proficiency for 4+Int skill points and (coincidentally) 4 good skills. This gives you more stuff to do when not fighting.
Take the Zhentrim Fighter ACF from the Champions of Valor Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a). This costs you nothing, and adds a bunch of Intimidation-related abilities. This gives you more stuff to do when not fighting, and adds an alternate attack mode.
Take the Dungeoncrasher ACF from Dungeonscape. This trades your 2nd and 6th level bonus feats for a huge bonus on Strength checks to break things, and a bunch of bonus damage if you bull rush someone into a wall. This gives you something to do when not fighting, and a fun alternate attack type to use when fighting. Grab Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, and Pushback (Miniatures Handbook) to smack people around without wasting actions. (Knock-Back from Races of Stone is a superior alternative to Pushback, but requires you to be Large sized or one of two races with Powerful build.)
You'll probably want to be able to move and attack as well. There are two good ways to do this. The first is a level of Barbarian with the Spirit Lion Totem ACF from Complete Champion, which lets you make a full attack after charging; the second is the Travel Devotion feat from the same book, which lets you move as a swift action for one minute once a day... and spend Turn Undead uses to get more daily uses. If you take a level of Cleric, you can trade access to the Travel Domain to gain it as a bonus feat, as well as a couple Turn Undead uses to power it.

That's sort of the basic A-Game Fighter; it works decently well up to 10th level or so, getting you 4+Int skill points, +10 on Str checks to break things, 8d6+3*Str if you bull rush a guy into a wall, the ability to Intimidate a guy as a swift action and have it last for a long time, and three bonus feast (Skill Focus (Intimidation) at 3rd and three normal Fighter bonus feats at 4th, 8th, and 10th).

Building on that, I'd suggest something like Fighter 9/Barbarian 2/Marshal 1. Put your best score in Strength, followed by Charisma and Con.

For those Barbarian levels, you'll want the aforementioned Spirit Lion Totem, as well as the non-spirit Wolf Totem from Unearthed Arcana/the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ). That'll trade your Fast Movement and Uncanny Dodge for Pounce and Improved Trip. Whirling Frenzy (Unearthed Arcana/SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy )) is pretty much a straight upgrade for Rage, giving you an extra attack each turn and bonus AC instead of extra health; Frenzy (Cityscape Web Enhancement (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)) turns your rage into more of a hyper-focused state, if that helps your fluff.
Marshal is available in the Miniature's Handbook, or online (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030906b). One level gets you heavy armor proficiency back, Skill Focus (Diplomacy), and a minor aura and Major -- I suggest Motivate Strength and Resilient Troopers, though Motivate Charisma isn't bad. That'll double down on your crazy strength and bump up your whole party's saves. Motivate Charisma isn't bad either, doubling down on your socialite skills. When you take the level, dump all your skill points for the level into Diplomacy.
For feats... first, ask about the feat Nymph's Kiss (Book of Exalted Deeds). It has an alignment and fluff restriction, but it's worth picking up if possible-- it gives you more skill points (take it at 1st level for maximum impact), a bonus on saves against spells, and a neat +2 bonus on Charisma "related" checks... which arguably includes Str checks, thanks to those Marshal levels.
So, if possible, grab Nymph's Kiss at 1st, Power Attack at 3rd, Improved Bull Rush at 4th (Fighter Bonus), Pushback at 6th, Shock Trooper (Complete Warrior) at 8th (Fighter Bonus), Imperious Command Drow of the Underdark) at 9th, Improved Trip at 11th (Barbarian bonus), and Extra Rage at 12th. If Nymph's Kiss isn't available, you might consider Brutal Strike (Player's Handbook 2) instead. Also take the Never Outnumbered skill trick (Complete Champion) as soon as possible.

To explain those... Shock Trooper gives you a couple neat charge and Bull Rush related abilities, including the ability to knock dudes diagonally for extra distance and knock one dude into another and trip them both. It also lets you take the Power Attack penalty to your AC instead.
Imperious Command means that people cower for a round when intimidated, instead of just taking a minor penalty. It combines nicely when the Zhentrim Fighter's swift-action Intimidate, as well as Never Outnumbered, which lets you intimidate everyone within 10ft at once.
Extra Rage gives you, well, more rages/day. It brings you up to a total of 3/day, which should be plenty for the day's fighting.
Brutal Strike lets you sicken people if you Power Attack them with a blunt weapon. Combine that with the intimidation thing, and you can leave people with a -4 penalty to almost every roll they make.

Taken all together, you wind up with an excellent all-around warlord type. You're incredibly strong and scary, with a wealth of different options in and out of a fight. During battle you can charge, bull rush, trip, and intimidate with the best of them, tossing your foes around and leaving them whimpering with feat; outside the fight you can headbutt your way through solid stone (a 1ft stone wall has a break DC of 35; your bonus on Str checks will be 10+Str+Cha+2, potentially; that's easily upwards of +20), leave people in fear for a day at a time, and bluff and diplomacize more than well enough to get by.

[Kelaundril]

Hey guys,

Wow! You guys are awesome and know your stuff lol. Thanks for the suggestions so far.

In response to Waker, I see my character as not essentially your normal overpowering fighter, since im going to be smaller than most being an elf type, but maybe more along the lines of out manouvering my enemy or being potentially quicker / more skillfull... and maybe having a few tricks up my sleeve when faced with a clearly stronger opponent :D.

But again, i dont mind bending the idea of my character to aid in a more standard style fighter (im sounding more thief/rogue like currently lol).

Grod_The_Giant, wow. Thank you for that information, I will have a toy with this and see what I think, but it does sound like alot of fun :D.

Cheers
Kelaundril

[Rebel7284]

If you want a little more finesse than being a brute that pushes people into walls, I feel like Warblade is the class for you. It takes a little bit to learn the system, but the flexibility of maneuvers and the many options they open up is totally worth it. As an elf, you qualify for Eternal Blade class as well.

[DEMON]

In response to Waker, I see my character as not essentially your normal overpowering fighter, since im going to be smaller than most being an elf type, but maybe more along the lines of out manouvering my enemy or being potentially quicker / more skillfull... and maybe having a few tricks up my sleeve when faced with a clearly stronger opponent :D.


There are ACFs for both Fighter and Swashbuckler in Drow of the Underdark, as well as PHB2 and Unearther Arcana, that might fit well with this concept of yours - Hit and Run Tactics Sneak Attack Fighter / Swift and Deadly Swashbuckler with Daring Outlaw feat (Complete Scoundrel; essentially gives you a Sneak Attack progression with a Swashbuckler) will make you an Int and Dex focused combatant.

But if you're playing with multiclass penalties, this might be problematic as neither Fighter, nor Swashbuckler are a favored class for a Drow nad you're already 2 levels behind due to your LA+2 (half-Drow would workbetter here, I believe).

You could still qualify for Eternal Blade, if you so desire and if ToB is available, with feats (Martial Study) or a Warblade dip.

Alternatively you could just go with a standard (feat, not sneak attack) Fighter and grab the Assassin Stance through a feat , to qualify for the Daring Outlaw feat.

ACFs to consider are Hit and Run Tactics, Sneak Attack, Thug, Resolute for Fighter and Swift and Deadly, Shield of Blades and Arcane Stunt for Swashbuckler. Some are mutually exclusive, though, so pick your poison.

[Grod_The_Giant]

In response to Waker, I see my character as not essentially your normal overpowering fighter, since im going to be smaller than most being an elf type, but maybe more along the lines of out manouvering my enemy or being potentially quicker / more skillfull... and maybe having a few tricks up my sleeve when faced with a clearly stronger opponent :D.

...

Grod_The_Giant, wow. Thank you for that information, I will have a toy with this and see what I think, but it does sound like alot of fun :D.
No problem. Sorry it's more of a two-handed-brute type; didn't realize that wasn't your plan. If you want someone quick and agile...

The Warblade has been mentioned a few times so far, and (if available) it's hard to argue with. Warblades, and the other classes in the Tome of Battle, are somewhere between normal fighter-types and spellcasters. They're built around "maneuvers," which are standard-action "I do an awesome sword/martial arts thing" powers that are expended once used, like spells. Unlike spells, they can easily be recharged (in the Warblade's case, as a swift action before attacking normally). Maneuvers cover a wide variety of ground, from simple "I hit him but EXTRA HARD" to out-and-out supernatural ninja tricks and fire magic (though the Warblade doesn't get any of the magic ones).
DEMON mentioned Daring Outlaw briefly-- in short, it's a feat from Complete Scoundrel that lets you stack Rogue and Swashbuckler levels for sneak attack. Something like Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 9 gives you a light, smart character with plenty of skill points and good martial abilities-- d10 HD, 6d6 sneak attack, nearly full BAB, free Weapon Finesse, Int-to-damage, a few minor acrobatic-type abilities and 4+Int skill points. It's effective enough, if not exactly thrilling. (I suggest doing the Travel Domain Cleric dip I mentioned earlier to get that swift-action movement, which is quite fitting for the character type. Take the Cloistered Cleric ACF (Unearthed Arcana/SRD), trade that extra Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion), and invest a few skill points in the monster-identifying Knowledge skills and the Collector of Stories Skill Trick (Complete Scoundrel) for a neat source of extra attack and damage.
One non-Fighter-y option if you want to be an agile-fighter-with-a-trick-up-your-sleeve might be the Factotum. More specifically, a Swashbuckler 3/Factotum 9. This gets you Weapon Finesse, Int-to-damage, Int to all Str and Dex checks, Int to AC, attack, damage, or saves with a per-encounter resource, extra standard actions with a per-encounter resource, big bonuses to all skills 1/day each, a bit of healing and Turn Undead, and a bit of Sorcerer/Wizard spellcasting-- one 3rd level and three 2nd level slots, improving to one 4th level and three 3rd level next turn. The Factotum is pretty decent at being flexible and having tricks up their sleeve in the form of those spells. (By this point, their spells are starting to get quite respectable. Keep an eye out for downtime stuff like Animate Dead). Factotums naturally struggle at contributing to combat, but Int-to-damage from the Swashbuckler, the aforementioned Knowledge Devotion strategy, and a bit of judicious Power Attacking (PA away all the to-hit bonuses from Knowledge Devotion and Cunning Insight) and/or tripping will do you decently well. Spiked Chains, Elven Courtblades (Races of the Wild), and Feycraft weapons (DMG 2) are all ways to get weapons that are both two-handed and Finessable.



As for specific PrCs that do neat things... a little poking and I'm coming up with...

Horizon Walker from the DMG is 5 levels of crappy skill boosts followed by 5 levels of excellent-by-any-standards special abilities-- Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds, Tremorsense, significant fire and cold resistance, and the ability to ignore things like Blasphemy.
Hellreaver from Fiendish Codex 2 is easy to enter, aimed at killing demons, and gives you a lovely per-encounter resource that you can spend to smite evil, heal yourself and allies, gain bonuses to AC and saves, and so on. It's flavorful, but tough and fun.
Ninja Spy from Oriental Adventures is a decent enough grab-bag. You get a bit of Sneak Attack, a few exotic weapons, poison use, water walking, huge bonuses to acrobatic skills, what's either at-will non-illusion disguises or at-will Alter Self depending on how you read the ability, and a 1/day teleport.
Master of Masks is another grab-bag from Complete Scoundrel. You make magic masks, which give you special abilities when worn. It's most noted for the Gladiator Mask, which gives you proficiency with all exotic weapons, but you can also pick up some neat SLAs here and there, include pretty good Summon Monsters. You arguably take a power drop at level 5, though-- it grants you the ability to wear two masks simultaneously, but a case can be made that you could normally wear all your masks simultaneously before that.
Lasher is a 3.0 class from Sword and Fist, but I think is still legal in 3.5. It's all about whips. Whip sneak attacks, whip AoOs, whip trips, grabbing stuff with your whip, stunning stuff with your whip, disarming stuff with your whip, making lots of extra attacks with your whip...
There are a couple of PrCs that add spellcasting of one sort or another, which can be worth looking at-- Suel Arcanamach (Complete Arcane), War Mind (Expanded Psionics Handbook/SRD)
People like the Kensai from Complete Warrior, though it's not my favorite. You get to enchant your own magic weapon, essentially; other benefits include making a Concencentration check for a +8 bonus to Str for a few rounds (usable at-will, but gets harder each time), bonuses to social skills, and some minor buffing stuff.
Deepwarden (Races of Stone) is Dwarf-only but could work for Drow just as easily. d12 HD and 6+Int skills, which has to be some sort of record; you get to use Con for AC, use Animal Messenger and Sending at-will, and get bonuses to saves against mind-affecting stuff