E6 D20 Call of Cthulhu?

[ColorBlindNinja]

One of the big complaints I've heard about D20 Call of Cthulhu is that it doesn't take many levels before the PCs start killing the eldritch abominations instead of running away in terror.

Would E6 resolve this issue?

Are there any other major problems with the system?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Thurbane]

I think E6 would be a fairly effective way of keeping the "feel" of CoC, where the PCs are utterly outclassed by eldritch abominations.

[Ashtagon]

One of the big complaints I've heard about D20 Call of Cthulhu is that it doesn't take many levels before the PCs start killing the eldritch abominations instead of running away in terror.

Would E6 resolve this issue?

Are there any other major problems with the system?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Anyone who has made that complaint has clearly been playing with something other than the d20 Call of Cthulhu book that WotC put out all those years ago. I'd be interested in any reports of this happening where only that book was used.

Seriously. Those rules are like having Commoner as the only playable character class, and all spells cause ability score damage to the caster, as well as essentially permanent Sanity damage that limits you to about 20 spell castings total over a character's life time. Also, no magic items, except as Sanity-sucking maguffins. Not much in the way of effective armour either. Also, massive damage threshold for PCs is 10 hp (still 50 hp for monsters of course).

[ColorBlindNinja]

Anyone who has made that complaint has clearly been playing with something other than the d20 Call of Cthulhu book that WotC put out all those years ago. I'd be interested in any reports of this happening where only that book was used.

Seriously. Those rules are like having Commoner as the only playable character class, and all spells cause ability score damage to the caster, as well as essentially permanent Sanity damage that limits you to about 20 spell castings total over a character's life time. Also, no magic items, except as Sanity-sucking maguffins. Not much in the way of effective armour either. Also, massive damage threshold for PCs is 10 hp (still 50 hp for monsters of course).

Interesting. So these complaints unwarranted?

[Crake]

I'll say that e6 certainly resolves the problems if you're using the dnd rules. I can't speak out for d20CoC, since I've never played it before, but the very first game I ran was an e6 survival horror, lovecraftian-esque game, and e6 certainly kept the feel of helplessness when the crazies came-a-knockin

[atemu1234]

I'll say that e6 certainly resolves the problems if you're using the dnd rules. I can't speak out for d20CoC, since I've never played it before, but the very first game I ran was an e6 survival horror, lovecraftian-esque game, and e6 certainly kept the feel of helplessness when the crazies came-a-knockin

D20CoC wasn't very good or popular, as with most of the 'd20fication' games.

The best-written part (which is to say, the sanity rules, 2/3s of which were cribbed straight from regular old CoC) was put into Unearthed Arcana for D&D. The game itself is pretty bad, trying to make D20 Modern work with Lovecraft's stories, instead of, say, making a Lovecraft-based supplement or something. They basically stole from themselves, threw in SAN and Dark Knowledge or whatever the skill was, and called it a day.

My recommendation is to scrap the core rulebook and use the SAN rules with D20 Modern or D20 Past, given your proclivities. You won't really miss it. Maybe backport some aberrations from 3.5 or Pathfinder for mooks. No real opinion on E6, though.

[Crake]

D20CoC wasn't very good or popular, as with most of the 'd20fication' games.

The best-written part (which is to say, the sanity rules, 2/3s of which were cribbed straight from regular old CoC) was put into Unearthed Arcana for D&D. The game itself is pretty bad, trying to make D20 Modern work with Lovecraft's stories, instead of, say, making a Lovecraft-based supplement or something. They basically stole from themselves, threw in SAN and Dark Knowledge or whatever the skill was, and called it a day.

My recommendation is to scrap the core rulebook and use the SAN rules with D20 Modern or D20 Past, given your proclivities. You won't really miss it. Maybe backport some aberrations from 3.5 or Pathfinder for mooks. No real opinion on E6, though.

Ah yeah, I was running the heroes of horror sanity/taint rules, which are basically just a cleaned up version of the ones from UA anyway :smalltongue: If I were to run a more modern setting horror game, I would probably do exactly that, run the sanity/taint rules and port it over to d20 modern, simple as that.

[Ashtagon]

If I were to play a CoC style game, I personally would NOT use the d20 CoC book.

Regarding the sanity rules: They're actually pretty awful, and in many areas, modern clinical diagnosis has moved on from their terms (some of which have now become a bit offensive to some groups). In other areas, it remains a little bit too real for those who have personally suffered mental health issues, and is liable to be triggering. (And let's face it, asking round-robin style "any of my players got mental health issues?" won't elicit anything useful.)

Instead, I'd modify the Taint (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm) rules (the most complete version of which is in Heroes of Horror). It'd be something that only applies to mental issues (i.e., Wisdom damage), ignoring the physical (Constitution) aspects of it. d20 Modern makes PCs squishy by default (using a low MD threshold, though not so low as in d20 CoC).

A long time ago, I attempted to make a d20 Modern Cthulhu subset (here (http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=9839)). Sadly, the discussion got derailed by multiple people asking why I wouldn't want primitive PCs in a modern setting, so I dropped the project. Had I finished this project, I've set out the rules for the modified Taint system, and outlined how casting spells would cause temporary ability score damage. The Forbidden Knowledge skill (under teh Sanity section of the SRD) would be in use. Spells would be learned pretty much as in d20 CoC (spend X number of weeks, gain ability score and Taint damage, and the spell is yours to cast unlimited as long as you can afford additional ability and taint damage). I'd also make Cthulhoid monsters have a MD threshold of 50, like in regular D&D. The creature research (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/CreaturesResearch.php) from the d20 Modern SRD might also have seen use somehow.

[ColorBlindNinja]

D20CoC wasn't very good or popular, as with most of the 'd20fication' games.

The best-written part (which is to say, the sanity rules, 2/3s of which were cribbed straight from regular old CoC) was put into Unearthed Arcana for D&D. The game itself is pretty bad, trying to make D20 Modern work with Lovecraft's stories, instead of, say, making a Lovecraft-based supplement or something. They basically stole from themselves, threw in SAN and Dark Knowledge or whatever the skill was, and called it a day.

My recommendation is to scrap the core rulebook and use the SAN rules with D20 Modern or D20 Past, given your proclivities. You won't really miss it. Maybe backport some aberrations from 3.5 or Pathfinder for mooks. No real opinion on E6, though.

It's worth noting that D20 Call of Cthulhu was released before D20 Modern was.


If I were to play a CoC style game, I personally would NOT use the d20 CoC book.

Regarding the sanity rules: They're actually pretty awful, and in many areas, modern clinical diagnosis has moved on from their terms (some of which have now become a bit offensive to some groups). In other areas, it remains a little bit too real for those who have personally suffered mental health issues, and is liable to be triggering. (And let's face it, asking round-robin style "any of my players got mental health issues?" won't elicit anything useful.)

Instead, I'd modify the Taint (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm) rules (the most complete version of which is in Heroes of Horror). It'd be something that only applies to mental issues (i.e., Wisdom damage), ignoring the physical (Constitution) aspects of it. d20 Modern makes PCs squishy by default (using a low MD threshold, though not so low as in d20 CoC).

A long time ago, I attempted to make a d20 Modern Cthulhu subset (here (http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=9839)). Sadly, the discussion got derailed by multiple people asking why I wouldn't want primitive PCs in a modern setting, so I dropped the project. Had I finished this project, I've set out the rules for the modified Taint system, and outlined how casting spells would cause temporary ability score damage. The Forbidden Knowledge skill (under teh Sanity section of the SRD) would be in use. Spells would be learned pretty much as in d20 CoC (spend X number of weeks, gain ability score and Taint damage, and the spell is yours to cast unlimited as long as you can afford additional ability and taint damage). I'd also make Cthulhoid monsters have a MD threshold of 50, like in regular D&D. The creature research (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/CreaturesResearch.php) from the d20 Modern SRD might also have seen use somehow.

- I can't say I'm suprised about clinical diagnosis marching on. That book is 15+ years old.

- One thing I did like about D20 Call of Cthulhu is that they give you stats for classic Lovecraft monsters.
That's helpful if your players try to say, pick a fight with some Elder Things ( they're screwed ).
Or if they're ambushed by a Shoggoth (they're really screwed).
Or if they fail to stop the evil cult and Great Cthulhu is stomping their way (just roll up new characters; the entire campaign is screwed ).

Edit: The fixes are interesting, but my intent was to salvage the system as it is. More or less.

[Thurbane]

- One thing I did like about D20 Call of Cthulhu is that they give you stats for classic Lovecraft monsters.
That's helpful if your players try to say, pick a fight with some Elder Things ( they're screwed ).

That was my main takeaway from it as well. While I mightn't agree with all of the stat blocks, it was nice to have a frame of reference.

I don't play Pathfinder, but I believe they have stats for most of these nowadays as well?

[atemu1234]

If I were to play a CoC style game, I personally would NOT use the d20 CoC book.

Regarding the sanity rules: They're actually pretty awful, and in many areas, modern clinical diagnosis has moved on from their terms (some of which have now become a bit offensive to some groups). In other areas, it remains a little bit too real for those who have personally suffered mental health issues, and is liable to be triggering. (And let's face it, asking round-robin style "any of my players got mental health issues?" won't elicit anything useful.)

Instead, I'd modify the Taint (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/taint.htm) rules (the most complete version of which is in Heroes of Horror). It'd be something that only applies to mental issues (i.e., Wisdom damage), ignoring the physical (Constitution) aspects of it. d20 Modern makes PCs squishy by default (using a low MD threshold, though not so low as in d20 CoC).

A long time ago, I attempted to make a d20 Modern Cthulhu subset (here (http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=99&t=9839)). Sadly, the discussion got derailed by multiple people asking why I wouldn't want primitive PCs in a modern setting, so I dropped the project. Had I finished this project, I've set out the rules for the modified Taint system, and outlined how casting spells would cause temporary ability score damage. The Forbidden Knowledge skill (under teh Sanity section of the SRD) would be in use. Spells would be learned pretty much as in d20 CoC (spend X number of weeks, gain ability score and Taint damage, and the spell is yours to cast unlimited as long as you can afford additional ability and taint damage). I'd also make Cthulhoid monsters have a MD threshold of 50, like in regular D&D. The creature research (http://www.12tomidnight.com/d20modernsrd/CreaturesResearch.php) from the d20 Modern SRD might also have seen use somehow.

>tfw the implication my depressed, autistic ass doesn't have mental health issues

[Ashtagon]

>tfw the implication my depressed, autistic ass doesn't have mental health issues

[PM sent; would prefer not to derail the thread with discussions focused on mental health]